White gold or platinum?

[michela002]

White gold or platinum? What do people think?

For the e-ring I think I'm going with a Tiffany 6-prong replica like the one pictured below and at the moment I think I'll go with a thin shared-prong wedding band like the one from Facets (pictured below.) And whichever metal I get for my e-ring is the one I'm stuck with for my wedding ring too.

I've read about the advantages and disadvantages of each metal but still can't decide ...

For the e-ring, white gold will save about $250. For the shared-prong Facets band, white gold saves $150. So all up that's $400. Is platinum worth that extra money? (Money saving is a significant issue.)

Will white gold yellow noticeably? Will two white gold rings wear each other down significantly? Is 14K or 18K white gold more likely to yellow? (I heard a rumour that 18K white gold yellows more.) I have a white-gold rhodium-plated necklace (family heirloom - probably 30+ years old) that looks as white as white can be, but perhaps rings are different because you wear them against your skin??

What would people recommend? $400 isn't that much, all things considered ... but platinum dulls easier, blah blah blah. Both have their pros and cons, but which one has the greatest benefits do people think?

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Hi,

You’re not going to like my answer...

It is all about the alloy. These are never the same, but one brand will use the same alloy for casting and another for forging another for earring posts and springs, one for chain and so on.

Lets assume your ring will be cast. (NB: wedding rings are generally machined).

Platinum casting alloys and W/G casting alloys are designed to flow further in the casting. This affects things a little. I can''t add much here as the alloys used in both metals vary too much to start outlining which alloys are used where and when - even if I knew.

The best W/G alloy is palladium for colour, hardness and for polish. It tends to suffer much more from porosity in casting. There are hundreds of variations of w/g casting alloys and palladium is not often used. Only the refiner knows exactly what is in the metal and they often keep it a secret.

Have I helped you yet? Sorry...

The thing is, w/g can be any colour and all sorts of strengths. There are no set rules for alloys.

Palladium W/G is not often cast and I doubt you will find many collections using it in their respective jewellery ranges, but you can ask. If anybody here offers it - let us know. I for one am curious.

I often use a guy who casts in palladium and does a great job. The alloy is more expensive and often needs some extra work to get rid of the porosity, but it never tarnishes, doesn''t really need rhodium plating and is hard as nails. I also use another company to cast W/G - they don''t use palladium, (or not much of it), but their alloy is also a good colour.

I also see some very grey W/G and have in the past seen some yellowish alloys.

I am not an end user but I don''t think your W/G should ever go yellow. I hear it here often enough and always thought it was an issue of yellowish alloys loosing the rhodium plating. I may be wrong. It may be something else. It should not happen.

The same goes for platinum. In fact, the grey patina relates to only some alloys. This area is more tangible, however, as platinum is usually 90% or 95% pure so there is not much alloy to affect things and the specific alloys are more obvious.

A good platinum alloy wins hands down over W/G IMO, but as you know it comes at a cost. The difference in cost is usually double and this is expected for various reasons from the raw costs, the extra weight, the recoverable scrap, the skills needed and the extra time taken. Hand forged platinum should cost more then double based on this.

In the case of the rings you are looking at, strength is an issue. A Plat alloy with 5% iridium will not be strong enough. A ruthenium alloy will be stronger then 95% of any W/G alloys and if is work-hardened it will be stronger then even palladium alloy W/G, though I have never tested it, I am just making an illustration for you.

Just to finish off,
There are some pretty terrible W/G alloys out there. The less gold there is, the more area for bad alloying. The exact karat doesn''t really matter. Good 18k alloys are nice and white and will not loose their colour. The exact same thing goes with lower karats. The worst platinum alloys are still excellent for the simple reason you have a nearly pure material to start with.

The whole issue IMO relates to mass-produced jewellery made as cheaply as possible, which use the cheapest alloys available.

As well as the alloys cost, the workmanship on one piece can be twice as times taking where certain alloys are used. It is purely a matter of cost.

I wonder how many people would be willing pay extra for palladium W/G. It seems that jewellers who use the better metals discount their work to keep in line with general prices knowing that the customer after years of wear, but like your heirloom, still having a good piece will want the same treatment and come back to the same jeweller...

If only they new

 

[Maxine]

But Platinum, why do I hear people saying that platinum prongs are somewhat more likely to bend and loosen somewhat....? That doesn''t sound

stronger.....

 

[michela002]

Platinumsmith - wow, thanks for the answer. But um I''m very unknowledgeable. Can you tell me if I''m hearing you correctly: if you''re willing to pay the premium platinum wins hand down (even the worst platinum is still ok) and of all the white golds, "palladium white gold" is the best? What would be second best? More importantly - Um - what is an alloy? (Is that what they mix with the white gold to make up the ring??)

Thanks for your help, I appreciate you taking the time to explain things, I''m just sorry I am so slow and don''t quite understand it all properly.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

There is a lot if irridium alloy platinum in the USA as far as I can make out.

At 5% it makes for a soft metal.
At 10% it is strong enough for setting

The ruthenium alloy is very hard but so hard many jewellers don't want to use it.
The cobalt is ok, a bit weaker then the ruthenium but definately strong enough for setting.

Both metals have soft alloys in use. I guess the only difference is that hard platinum alloys take longer to work and there are many hard W/G alloys that don't take long to work at all.

Thisis a smplified fact sheet on platinum alloys.

Mark Morrelalso has a good info on his site that is worth looking at.

I think the jewellery industry is getting its act together as far as alloys are concerned, but it is a hard one to educate people about.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Don''t be sorry. You read and understood my dissjointed post and that is an achievement in itself.

I can''t say for sure what is another good W/G alloy, just who I get them from.

An alloy might be:
75% gold
12.5% palladium
5% silver
2.5% copper
some zinc, some nickel, some tin, some cilicon etc (I don''t exactly know)

These all differ from place to place. That''s why some good W/G alloys don''t have any palladium and are still good.

The biggest companies spend millions developing their alloys and how they go about making them is a guarded secret. There is a lot to know in how to prepare the alloys - what to mix with what, then add to this or that and so on. Thats just the start, then there are chemicals and noxious oxides and melting temperatures to contend with.

There is some usufull information here. The navigation is at the left of the page.

Phillip

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

http://www.apecs.com.au/evolutionofall/page7.htm

I found the page on W/G alloys

They tell you about their palladium alloy. I hadn't known that the Pt/Pd alloy was still available.

So there you go. There is some palladium alloy out there, even as a preference for the better casting houses. It is only white when the content is nice and high, and it is more workable.

This isn't exactly my experience but I will leave it at that.

BTW, my biggest complaint about W/G is the huge differences in the alloys workability, soldering behaviours, polishing etc. For example: I may have one alloy for the band, another for the head and then another colour metal for the solder. It is not all about the colour. Some alloys are just not compatible. I am not saying this happens often, but when I was doing repairs this issue used to drive me wild.

 

[tomatoe]

Date: 2/12/2005 11

8:28 PM
Author: Platinumsmith
I wonder how many people would be willing pay extra for palladium W/G. It seems that jewellers who use the better metals discount their work to keep in line with general prices knowing that the customer after years of wear, but like your heirloom, still having a good piece will want the same treatment and come back to the same jeweller...

If only they knew

I would but not that much more, maybe $50-100 more?, cos then I''d might as well go with plat.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Good and I will be your smith

 

[tomatoe]

And how will we work that out??!? Are you going to fly to me and be my personal smith?

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Yeah, but don''t have me over everytime you scratch something.

By the way, palladium W/G will tarnish like other W/G depending on the alloy. My customer read this and told me hers has. Another correction from my original post...

I am still learning

 

[tomatoe]

Date: 2/13/2005 3:40:46 AM
Author: Platinumsmith
Yeah, but don''t have me over everytime you scratch something.


By the way, palladium W/G will tarnish like other W/G depending on the alloy. My customer read this and told me hers has. Another correction from my original post...


I am still learning

I can''t afford to have you come here!

Tarnish, but not yellow right? And can tarnish be gotten rid of?

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

No it certainly won''t yellow.

I was only joking about the scratching.

 

[michela002]

I guess the conclusion is that you can get a great white gold but it''s more risky and platinum is the safer choice? Well it''s not an enormous cost difference so that does seem like a reasonable suggestion. Thanks so much for all your help

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Not so much that. I gues I was trying to readress the situation where platinum gets a bad rap, when in fact it is more reliably better.

To tell you to choose on that issue would be a bit missleading. Most of the alloys are tailor made for specific purposes like chain, rings posts etc. Ring manufacturers use an alloy that flows fast and work hardens. Rings are not the place where manufacturers try to save money on the alloy.

I don''t know what is on offer in the USA and what exactly you should expect. I can only judge by the scarey stories you often see posted, but I assume the average USA wholesalers and bench workers educate themselves very well and the refiners are asked to go that little bit further, as that is my impression of the way things are done in the US. It is true of Australia where, when asked I get a run down of the alloys used and about 5 alloys to choose from - some cheaper ther y/g, which is unheard of elswhere. In other countries where I have worked, I get this is hard this is soft, though their W/G was always pretty good anyway.

No, in the end I would say go platinum because it is PURE. Yes you can avoid a risk, but I hope you''d shop at a place where you don''t need to worry about such things.

 

[aussiegirl]

I am going for platinum over white gold as I have a white gold ring that is about 5 years old and it is noticeably yellowish... admitted I have not had it rhodium replated over that time - but I like the idea that I don''t have to worry about platinum in the future

hope this helps
aussiegirl

ps. also as platinum is very uncommon in australia - they do not stock it in most b&m''s I like the idea of being a little different

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

It will be