which diamond spec is better?

[jetmal]

Hi,

I'm trying to learn....I'm not saying I am purchasing either one of these, but I am trying to learn which one would be better.

Is the big price difference due to the color rating differences? And which one will appear bigger....the one on the left ? Can I find a J princess that will be white when facing up? I am thinking about having it put in a semi tension mounting.

Compare Selected Diamonds


Item Code 8715096 3147569
Shape Princess Princess
Carat 2.04 2.01
Color G J
Clarity SI1 SI1
Measurements 7.47-7.09X4.89 7.03-6.76X4.95
Table % 77 80
Depth % 69 73.2
Polish Good Good
Symmetry Good Good
Girdle - -
Culet None None
Fluorescence
Certificate GIA EGL
Sarin Report
IdealScope Report
Price $15,886.00 $8,283.00


or how about this one....is it going to be more rectangular shaped???

Item Code: 7049436
Price: $7,827.00
Report: EGL
Shape: Princess
Carat: 2.17
Color: J
Clarity: SI1
Depth: 72.4
Table: 75
Girdle: TN-M
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Culet: None
Fluorescence: No
Measurements: 7.70-7.00X5.07
Length/Width: 1.10

 

[belle]

Date: 2/19/2006 6:19:07 PM
Author:jetmal
Hi,

I''m trying to learn....I''m not saying I am purchasing either one of these, but I am trying to learn which one would be better.

Is the big price difference due to the color rating differences? And which one will appear bigger....the one on the left ? Can I find a J princess that will be white when facing up? I am thinking about having it put in a semi tension mounting.

the price difference is due to many things...the size, the color, the clarity, the cut quality, the grading report... etc.....so many things go into pricing. you are not going to find a needle in the haystack deal. the bottom line is, you get what you pay for.
as far as finding a ''j'' that faces up white... well, everyone perceives color differently, but a really well cut stone (which none of these are even close to being) will help the face up appearance. i can guarantee that those poorly cut egl graded ''j''s will be yellow even to the most color loving viewers.

 

[jetmal]

ok, thanks belle.....so if these cuts are poor....what is it that makes a cut a good one?
I''ve read the 4 c''s , but I must be missing something.

 

[valeria101]

There isn't so much written about what makes 'cut quality' for princess cuts in particular... but a few pages could be found.

The page about Fancy Shapes under 'Knowledge' on top of this page has something... bu does not address so much about what it takes to get a relatively brilliant princess cut. The page on fancy shapes at www.ideal-scope.com does a bit more and you may want to start with THIS one at GoodOldGold: sure that shop is no charity, but I think their technicals are quite a bit better than bluntly self-serving - their content can be applied elsewhere, IMO.


And then, there is this new breed of AGS0 cut princess diamonds. There should be a couple of older threads about them and a fair amount of praise on this forum. In particular, you may want to track down the posts by 'Paul-Antwerp' (Paul Sledgers of Infinitydiamonds), a cutter of such stones who keeps writing useful comments about non AGS0 princess diamonds too.

Hope this doesn't amount only to a headache: it is not too happy that there's little trace of cut info on lab reports. So... in the end there is a bit of hunt left after you decide what is adds up to meaningful quality for you.

My 2c



About the diamonds posted... aside the J and EGL part already mentioned, I would surely look for clarity (SI1 may or may not be clean, especially if there is any doubt about how strict the grading was)... size for weight and definitely brilliance. You can easily find princess diamonds with OK proportions by any book and similar size for anything between 1.5 and 2 cts. getting just above 2 cts as opposed to just below... surely makes a difference of cots, but may not be significant at all for the actual size (diameter) of the stones. Btw re. size for weight - among theose three, between 7mm and nearly 8 I am quite sure something shows).

Since size shows on the lab reports (and databases ) and brilliance doesn't though... it may not really pay to hunt down the largest princess cut diamonds for the weight, because that can easily result in a cut disaster (imagining some with overly large tables ... windowed pavilions and who knows what else).

Hope at least some of this makes sense. You may find 'stories' of princess diamond buyers who may have been looking for similar things. Each may have useful hints, if you wish.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/19/2006 6:19:07 PM
Author:jetmal


Carat 2.04 2.01 2.17
Color G J J
Clarity SI1 SI1 SI1
Size 7.47-7.09 7.03-6.76 7.7 x 7.00
Shape(l/w) 1.05 1.04 1.1
Table % 77 80 75
Depth % 69 73.2 72.4
Polish Good Good Vg.
Girdle: - - Thin-medium
Symmetry Good Good Vg.
Certificate GIA EGL EGL
Price $16k $8.3k $8k

Same data, rearranged a bit.

And a couple of questions: The price difference is.... rather large and while I would completely agree with the SI1 part, there should be some room between GIA''s ''G'' and EGL''s ''J'' colors there to please budget & all. Especially since those ''EGL'' may be non-US branches, those ''J'' may mean something quite a bit more colorful (GIA''s K or?). In theory, I wouldn''t shy away from what I know ''J'' looks like and I am afraid I know no better than GIA''s definition of these grades. And that may be EGL''s ''I'' for safety (assuming it is EGL US). All in all, I''d have no comment for I and above color wise. G sounds super safe.

Have you seen what these grades look like? You might want to do that if you have a chance.

By reflex, when I get to browse some database like this, my hand errs and sets 75% as top limit for both table and depth for square diamonds. Not that I have some particular preference for those numbers (j fact, 65% sounds way better to my ears), but above that I start wondering... what the Hell does this look like? 80% table is no mystery - that diamond ends at the girdle - there''s probably a very shallow crown and you''d have to squint hard to see what is that they call a ''crown'' there. The girdle may be thicker than that! Maybe someone loves that sort of look - as you have guessed.... it is more of a curiosity to me (diamonds cut without a crown...).

About the first listing: 16k without cut info and/or seeing it to get an informed opinion about cut in person, is not too appealing - in fact, it is not appealing at all.

The rectangular one would have just made that 75/75 random cut mentioned above. It sounds like rectangular princess cuts are out of favor, and there may be some truth behind that about some stones cut with a ''bow tie'' (see on ideal-scope.com a description of the phenomenon) across the long side. But it doesn''t have to be. One of the most striking diamonds posted here (6 cts, yellow) was a long princess cut - maybe 1.5:1 l/w, a long rectangle. It had none of the nasty bow tie, but the cut was modified to showcase the unusual colored material, and I wouldn''t count on that happening often.
If very desperate, with no possibility to see a different selection, maybe I''d ask about this rectangular fellow first from the three posted. And asking would mean: confirming that the EGL report is the US one, that ''SI1'' looks clean and that the cut is attractive. From the listings you cited it sounds like the seller uses IdealScope pictures ... maybe they could advise how this one works out before you get to consider it. Since there is a return policy and buyers can check claims about what diamonds look like under the ''Scope ... I would not count on such advice from the seller being totally hollow. At least in theory.


My 2c

I am not an expert... so please add the needed grain of salt here and there.

 

[valeria101]

Speaking of EGL

If the lab''s grades are discounted... it seems to pay to look for a wider range.


This one is about as large ( 7 x 6.7mm) as the second one on your list. The weight a hair below 2 cts shows on the price tag.


Weight: 1.89 carats
Size: 6.98x6.68
Shape: 1.04
Depth: 73.00 %
Table: 72.00 %
Girdle: medium
Culet: None
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Clarity Grade: VS2
Color Grade: H
Fluorescence: None
Lab: EGL
Cost: $8600

Btw. about the square versus rectangular... on lab reports (GIA ta least, guess others too). Princess cuts with l/v <1.05 are called ''square'' and all else ''rectangular''. This seems to be a safe cutoff to me. The previous 1.1:1 shape is still only slightly rectangular (an example below).


I know this is smaller than you wanted, but the description sounds intriguing: (E/Si, EGL, Ex-Ex finish)

weight: 1.71
EGL grades: E SI1
depth; 74.3%
table: 64%
girdle: m
culet: no
Finish: ex / ex
fluorescence: no
Size: 6.62x6.58
Cost: ~ $8500 (listed by multiple sellers).


Also, between 8k and 16k...there''s 11:

Perhaps for something like this:

weight: 1.86
size: 7.06x6.77
GIA Grades: G / SI1
depth: 70.5%
table: 68%
girdle: m-tk
Finish: gd / ex
fluorescence: no

Cost: ~11k (multiple listings as usual).


Dunno... there is a slight feeling of ''stabbing in the dark'' while browsing these databases trying to second guess what diamonds may look like with these cert data as only clue. I''d rather do it differently, but... The listings are here and if you started this way, why not. At worst, the seller can make a proper selection once someone gets to call in and see the goods. And then, you can always see them in the end. It would be so much more useful to see these diamonds to begin with

... But hey, even potatoes in the farmer''s market are sold as a ''blind pour'' from a mixed basket. Why not diamonds !

By size .. these guys don''t miss the target set by the three diamonds you have listed (~7mm). If the 2 cts mark has some mystique beyond that, I ended up with this fellow:

weight: 2.10
size: 6.87x6.79
EGL grades: H SI1
depth: 73.8%
table: 67%
girdle: tn- ?
culet: no
finish: vg vg
fluorescence: no
Cost: ~ $9500 (multiple listings)

Although there should be more options out there.


Hope this wasn''t too boring...

 

[jetmal]

thank you Ana for for that indepth explanation! I appreciate the time you took for me!
I am not considering any of these diamonds right now.....I was only trying to look for a few, compare them , and try to figure out if I can identify a good diamond.....apparently I am not so good yet

back to the drawing board!
thanks

edit----while I was typing this up, I think you came in here with another post with lots of specs to look at! THANK YOU! I am getting some hope again!

I'll be back!