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What''s the deal with Obama starting a militia?

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MaggieB

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Can''t believe how little time I''ve had to enjoy the election before I''m back on conspiracy patrol. My best friend called to tell me that her mother is having a nervous breakdown about the militia that Obama is forcing all college kids to join in his socialist army. Can anyone tell me the facts about this? Or the conspiracy part. Whichever.
 

Ellen

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Good grief. I haven''t heard anything like that. And call me crazy, but I''m pretty sure the transition and the economy would take precedence above all else at this point.
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Where does this stuff come from??
 

strmrdr

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The trust of the matter is no one knows 100% what he meant because the mainstream media ignored it.
 

Ellen

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I seriously doubt either a budget cut or whatever else he mentioned is going to happen. He''s going to get in there and find out losts of things can''t get done because of the mess we''re in. And I thought Frank was smoking crack when he suggested cutting military spending awhile back, no way people are going to go for that, including me.
 

MaggieB

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Date: 11/7/2008 7:44:51 AM
Author: Ellen
I seriously doubt either a budget cut or whatever else he mentioned is going to happen. He''s going to get in there and find out losts of things can''t get done because of the mess we''re in. And I thought Frank was smoking crack when he suggested cutting military spending awhile back, no way people are going to go for that, including me.
As I mentioned before, the clip of Obama''s actual words were sixteen seconds. I''m going to refrain from judging them until I can find some more credible information about them. The article that Karl linked was a great start and very helpful. However, if I were to quote certain sentences from it, I wouldn''t even be able to make this post. So let''s just say it''s apparent that it wasn''t a comprehensive examination. So far, the best I can surmise is that this somehow relates to how America can meet our ever-increasing needs for national security. But I''ll keep looking.
 

MaggieB

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Date: 11/7/2008 7:32:46 AM
Author: strmrdr
The trust of the matter is no one knows 100% what he meant because the mainstream media ignored it.
Good point. Mainstream media, if you are reading this, please explain so I can stop scrolling through blogs. Getting tiresome.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 11/7/2008 8:01:14 AM
Author: MaggieB
Date: 11/7/2008 7:32:46 AM

Author: strmrdr

The trust of the matter is no one knows 100% what he meant because the mainstream media ignored it.

Good point. Mainstream media, if you are reading this, please explain so I can stop scrolling through blogs. Getting tiresome.
I looked and it seems like no one actually asked him what he meant.
All I found was what some people think he may have meant.
time will tell I guess....
 

Ellen

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Date: 11/7/2008 7:59:50 AM
Author: MaggieB

As I mentioned before, the clip of Obama''s actual words were sixteen seconds. I''m going to refrain from judging them until I can find some more credible information about them. The article that Karl linked was a great start and very helpful. However, if I were to quote certain sentences from it, I wouldn''t even be able to make this post. So let''s just say it''s apparent that it wasn''t a comprehensive examination. So far, the best I can surmise is that this somehow relates to how America can meet our ever-increasing needs for national security. But I''ll keep looking.
Oh I agree. I don''t really know what he was talking about either. But like I said, with all that''s on his plate, there''s a lot of "other" things (no matter what they are) he might have had in mind that aren''t going to get done.
 

ksinger

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Date: 11/7/2008 7:44:51 AM
Author: Ellen
I seriously doubt either a budget cut or whatever else he mentioned is going to happen. He''s going to get in there and find out losts of things can''t get done because of the mess we''re in. And I thought Frank was smoking crack when he suggested cutting military spending awhile back, no way people are going to go for that, including me.
Nope. Not until our guys are back home and this war is wound down.

My question is why would he need to do this, when Bush, with a flourish of his signing statement pen, kindly left him the First Brigade of the Third Infantry Division. Just get a few more of them deployed here and voila! Problem solved!
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Think Again: The Invisible Battle Over Posse Comitatus

excerpt from the second link:

The implications of the mainstream media’s blind eye toward the struggle to redefine posse comitatus are not yet clear, but at the very least a disturbing precedent has been set. Some critics have expressed more ominous fears. Naomi Wolf worries that the potential deployment of an Army brigade inside the United States “puts teeth” into threats of martial law, and notes that Rep. Brad Sherman of California said on C-Span that, “a few members were even told that there would be martial law in America if we voted no [on the recent bailout bill].”

Glenn Greenwald, on the other hand, believes that “[t]here’s no need to start manufacturing all sorts of scare scenarios about Bush canceling elections or the imminent declaration of martial law or anything of that sort” since a single brigade is clearly insufficient to accomplish any of that, and the deployments probably wouldn’t be announced as they have been if there were indeed sinister plans. Greenwald is probably right here, as he is when he cautions: “[T]he deployment is a very dangerous precedent, quite possibly illegal, and a radical abandonment of an important democratic safeguard. As always with first steps of this sort, the danger lies in how the power can be abused in the future.” But one cannot be sure. (emphasis mine)


The one indisputable fact about the Bush administration is that its contempt for the Constitution is all but impossible to overestimate. A government that would deliberately lie to lead a nation into war, set up secret torture prisons, illegally wiretap American citizens, and then threaten the journalists who reveal these facts with jail, is certainly capable of using a military brigade at home, should it decide that its own definition of a threat has been met. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, but how can citizens voluntarily pay this price when the media upon whom they depend has proven AWOL on its most sacred constitutional charge?



 

HollyS

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What he said, on more than one campaign stop, and I''m sure it would be entirely possible to find these "sound bites", was that we need a "national security force" that would supercede our military. Now, I realize most of you are left of center, but that statement should be at least wiggling your antenna even if it doesn''t alarm you (which it should). A "national security force", an American "police force", any force like this which works for the government, not the people, should be a concern to everyone. If it is not, you have taken leave of your senses.
 

Ellen

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Date: 11/7/2008 8:19:03 AM
Author: ksinger


The one indisputable fact about the Bush administration is that its contempt for the Constitution is all but impossible to overestimate. A government that would deliberately lie to lead a nation into war, set up secret torture prisons, illegally wiretap American citizens, and then threaten the journalists who reveal these facts with jail, is certainly capable of using a military brigade at home, should it decide that its own definition of a threat has been met. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, but how can citizens voluntarily pay this price when the media upon whom they depend has proven AWOL on its most sacred constitutional charge?

Wow. I had heard a brief comment about the Army deployment in here awhile back, but didn''t know the history behind it. That last paragraph sums it all up, and the media ignoring this is suspect, to say the least....
 

Ellen

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Date: 11/7/2008 8:45:12 AM
Author: HollyS
What he said, on more than one campaign stop, and I''m sure it would be entirely possible to find these ''sound bites'', was that we need a ''national security force'' that would supercede our military. Now, I realize most of you are left of center, but that statement should be at least wiggling your antenna even if it doesn''t alarm you (which it should). A ''national security force'', an American ''police force'', any force like this which works for the government, not the people, should be a concern to everyone. If it is not, you have taken leave of your senses.
Seems like the Bush administration was in favor of that very thing, no? ( reading Karen''s links)
 

Linda W

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Date: 11/7/2008 8:50:56 AM
Author: Ellen
Date: 11/7/2008 8:45:12 AM

Author: HollyS

What he said, on more than one campaign stop, and I''m sure it would be entirely possible to find these ''sound bites'', was that we need a ''national security force'' that would supercede our military. Now, I realize most of you are left of center, but that statement should be at least wiggling your antenna even if it doesn''t alarm you (which it should). A ''national security force'', an American ''police force'', any force like this which works for the government, not the people, should be a concern to everyone. If it is not, you have taken leave of your senses.
Seems like the Bush administration was in favor of that very thing, no? ( reading Karen''s links)


Ditto to what Ellen and Karen said!!!!!!!
 

starsapphire

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Date: 11/7/2008 8:50:56 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 11/7/2008 8:45:12 AM
Author: HollyS
What he said, on more than one campaign stop, and I''m sure it would be entirely possible to find these ''sound bites'', was that we need a ''national security force'' that would supercede our military. Now, I realize most of you are left of center, but that statement should be at least wiggling your antenna even if it doesn''t alarm you (which it should). A ''national security force'', an American ''police force'', any force like this which works for the government, not the people, should be a concern to everyone. If it is not, you have taken leave of your senses.
Seems like the Bush administration was in favor of that very thing, no? ( reading Karen''s links)
Well then, Bush and Obama agree on something!!!
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HollyS

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Date: 11/7/2008 8:50:56 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 11/7/2008 8:45:12 AM
Author: HollyS
What he said, on more than one campaign stop, and I''m sure it would be entirely possible to find these ''sound bites'', was that we need a ''national security force'' that would supercede our military. Now, I realize most of you are left of center, but that statement should be at least wiggling your antenna even if it doesn''t alarm you (which it should). A ''national security force'', an American ''police force'', any force like this which works for the government, not the people, should be a concern to everyone. If it is not, you have taken leave of your senses.
Seems like the Bush administration was in favor of that very thing, no? ( reading Karen''s links)
Whether Republican proposed or Democrat proposed, such a force would be frightening. Just because I''m more conservative than the majority here does not mean I would be amenable to any such gross overreaching of government. Just by stint of not being Democrat does not mean I agree with wiretapping, either. Or any other erosion of civil liberties.

We could all use a little less stereotyping on these forums. Conservative does not mean facist. Liberal does not mean communist. Those are the extremes to which few actually go. Hopefully.
 

partgypsy

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We could begin by bringing the national guard home, rather than being deployed to fight foreign wars.
 

MaggieB

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Date: 11/7/2008 1:43:40 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 11/7/2008 8:50:56 AM
Author: Ellen


Date: 11/7/2008 8:45:12 AM
Author: HollyS
What he said, on more than one campaign stop, and I''m sure it would be entirely possible to find these ''sound bites'', was that we need a ''national security force'' that would supercede our military. Now, I realize most of you are left of center, but that statement should be at least wiggling your antenna even if it doesn''t alarm you (which it should). A ''national security force'', an American ''police force'', any force like this which works for the government, not the people, should be a concern to everyone. If it is not, you have taken leave of your senses.
Seems like the Bush administration was in favor of that very thing, no? ( reading Karen''s links)
Whether Republican proposed or Democrat proposed, such a force would be frightening. Just because I''m more conservative than the majority here does not mean I would be amenable to any such gross overreaching of government. Just by stint of not being Democrat does not mean I agree with wiretapping, either. Or any other erosion of civil liberties.

We could all use a little less stereotyping on these forums. Conservative does not mean facist. Liberal does not mean communist. Those are the extremes to which few actually go. Hopefully.
Wow, I agree with Holly! I think I''m going to go have a drink to celebrate.
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Ellen

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Date: 11/7/2008 1:43:40 PM
Author: HollyS

Whether Republican proposed or Democrat proposed, such a force would be frightening. Just because I''m more conservative than the majority here does not mean I would be amenable to any such gross overreaching of government. Just by stint of not being Democrat does not mean I agree with wiretapping, either. Or any other erosion of civil liberties.

We could all use a little less stereotyping on these forums. Conservative does not mean facist. Liberal does not mean communist. Those are the extremes to which few actually go. Hopefully.
The intent of my comment wasn''t to stereotype at all. The story is what it is, and it''s the Republican party. I just pointed that out, nothing wrong with that. If we''re going to be fearful over something we don''t yet understand that the president elect might or might not be doing, because of some random comment he made that we can''t find anymore on, I figured we could at least point out what we can be fearful of that President Bush has done.

But to be honest Holly, to hear you tell it, your party would be above that. I''ve never heard you liken him (Obama) to any previous president, on either side. As if he were so dangerous that there existed no one before him to compare to (aside from Hitler, Stalin, etc).

You have ragged (and that''s putting it mildly) on Obama from day one, and now that there "could" (though I have serious doubts of anything omenous) be something similar that you felt he would be capable of all along, actually existing in the other party, the story seems to have changed a bit. If you didn''t know all this, I can understand. If you did know, it''s a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, to me. If I''ve misunderstood all your previous postings, then I apologize for that.
 

decodelighted

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Wellllll... this "secret radical militia" of college-aged kids sounds more like those DANGEROUS volunteer firemen -or- (gasp!) The Peace Corps. I''d suggest the prudent thing to do would be to calm down & listen to plans as they are proposed & explained. There''s plenty of urgent house-on-fire matters to deal with. Reading nefarious intent into vague statements (though a popular past time lately) is just spinning yourself up for naught.

Would there be all this Voodoo speculation & intrigue & boot-quaking "terror" if Hilary had won?
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MaggieB

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Date: 11/7/2008 4:15:16 PM
Author: decodelighted
Wellllll... this ''secret radical militia'' of college-aged kids sounds more like those DANGEROUS volunteer firemen -or- (gasp!) The Peace Corps. I''d suggest the prudent thing to do would be to calm down & listen to plans as they are proposed & explained. There''s plenty of urgent house-on-fire matters to deal with. Reading nefarious intent into vague statements (though a popular past time lately) is just spinning yourself up for naught.

Would there be all this Voodoo speculation & intrigue & boot-quaking ''terror'' if Hilary had won?
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I agree with you Deco. Boy, I''m just agreeing all over the place today. I believed that the speculation was probably, as it has been so far, trumped up smears. But since I got asked directly by my friend to help calm her mom down about the militia, I did want to see what I could find out about it. And I guess since I am constantly hearing the argument that I just ignore everything but my liberal elite media sources, I was trying to extend the courtesy of examing the evidence. Which I am thus far not persuaded by.
 

partgypsy

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The main thing I hear regarding paranoia regarding Obama is that I have been told by older white men whom I otherwise adore telling me with a straight face that the Book of Revelations has foretold that a Muslim with a "silver tongue" is either the Antichrist or will fall under the spell of the Antichrist and start the domination of the antichrist over the world. Seriously they say it with a straight face. Don''t even bring up that Obama''s not a Muslim; they say the church he went to is actually not a Christian church but a muslim church "in disguise".

I do believe we are in dark days right now, but I don''t need to read the Bible to believe it, simply pick up the paper and talking to people around you.
 

AprilBaby

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I hope you guys all realize the president cannot make a law. His power is really very limited by the congress. Any theories you hear can only be passed by majority vote.
 

MoonWater

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Date: 11/7/2008 5:56:02 PM
Author: part gypsy
The main thing I hear regarding paranoia regarding Obama is that I have been told by older white men whom I otherwise adore telling me with a straight face that the Book of Revelations has foretold that a Muslim with a ''silver tongue'' is either the Antichrist or will fall under the spell of the Antichrist and start the domination of the antichrist over the world. Seriously they say it with a straight face. Don''t even bring up that Obama''s not a Muslim; they say the church he went to is actually not a Christian church but a muslim church ''in disguise''.

I do believe we are in dark days right now, but I don''t need to read the Bible to believe it, simply pick up the paper and talking to people around you.
Have they actually read "The Book of Revelations"??? Do they know it''s the Book of Revelation...without an S? I notice that the folks that screw up what is written in it the most are those that don''t even know the freaking proper title!!!!

part gypsy, that frustration is not aimed at you in anyway. I am just tired of the lies, paranoia, bigotry, and stupidity.
 

ksinger

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Date: 11/7/2008 5:57:52 PM
Author: AprilBaby
I hope you guys all realize the president cannot make a law. His power is really very limited by the congress. Any theories you hear can only be passed by majority vote.
Umm...apparently you''ve never heard of "signing statements"...
 

MaggieB

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Date: 11/7/2008 5:56:02 PM
Author: part gypsy
The main thing I hear regarding paranoia regarding Obama is that I have been told by older white men whom I otherwise adore telling me with a straight face that the Book of Revelations has foretold that a Muslim with a ''silver tongue'' is either the Antichrist or will fall under the spell of the Antichrist and start the domination of the antichrist over the world. Seriously they say it with a straight face. Don''t even bring up that Obama''s not a Muslim; they say the church he went to is actually not a Christian church but a muslim church ''in disguise''.

I do believe we are in dark days right now, but I don''t need to read the Bible to believe it, simply pick up the paper and talking to people around you.
Hey Part Gypsy, I have a thread about that. If you would like to help the older white men that you adore better understand Obama, you can try sending them the Snopes link: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anyone-else-gotten-the-obama-is-the-anti-christ-email.97966/

I realize it''s a long shot but we can hope!
 

HollyS

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Date: 11/7/2008 4:01:47 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 11/7/2008 1:43:40 PM
Author: HollyS

Whether Republican proposed or Democrat proposed, such a force would be frightening. Just because I''m more conservative than the majority here does not mean I would be amenable to any such gross overreaching of government. Just by stint of not being Democrat does not mean I agree with wiretapping, either. Or any other erosion of civil liberties.

We could all use a little less stereotyping on these forums. Conservative does not mean facist. Liberal does not mean communist. Those are the extremes to which few actually go. Hopefully.
The intent of my comment wasn''t to stereotype at all. The story is what it is, and it''s the Republican party. I just pointed that out, nothing wrong with that. If we''re going to be fearful over something we don''t yet understand that the president elect might or might not be doing, because of some random comment he made that we can''t find anymore on, I figured we could at least point out what we can be fearful of that President Bush has done.

But to be honest Holly, to hear you tell it, your party would be above that. I''ve never heard you liken him (Obama) to any previous president, on either side. As if he were so dangerous that there existed no one before him to compare to (aside from Hitler, Stalin, etc).

You have ragged (and that''s putting it mildly) on Obama from day one, and now that there ''could'' (though I have serious doubts of anything omenous) be something similar that you felt he would be capable of all along, actually existing in the other party, the story seems to have changed a bit. If you didn''t know all this, I can understand. If you did know, it''s a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, to me. If I''ve misunderstood all your previous postings, then I apologize for that.

What exactly did you just say? That I''ve been against Obama since day one? Yes, I have. However, you have never seen me put in print any extravagant praise for our current Republican leader. I have, in fact, said that he has done a pretty piss poor job. And I''m a Texan, who voted twice to put him in our Governor''s Mansion. I don''t think there is very much that could be compared about Bush and Obama where they would be on the same side of anything; but what has that got to do with me or what I''ve ever posted??

I''ve said this before, but it seems to get lost in the shuffle. I don''t necessarily consider myself Republican. Conservative, yes. But I also vote across party lines, in national, state, and local elections. If I thought a Democrat was the right choice, he/she would get my vote . . . even for President. Clinton got my vote in 1992, for instance. Hillary had my vote in the primary this time. And I don''t even like the Clintons.

I''m not ''fearful'' of Obama. Not yet. I don''t think he is some evil, nasty guy who''s going to destroy America. What I believe is that he is in over his head, and will be for most of his presidency. Now there''s something he and Bush have in common! There you go!
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