What To Do With A Liar???

[Boatluvr]

I realize I'm new to this group and no one knows me but this whole thread kind of gives me the willies. I have a brother who seems to have similar issues and I have come to the (gulp) conclusion that he is a pathological liar. He seems to be telling the truth and my mother believes 98% of what he says. He was semi-financially successful in the past, but he needs more money now (he married a younger woman with two pre-teen boys) and he's begun to take some of my mother's belongings. So far its things like lamps, pictures (the family heirloom type) and paintings. My mother has a Botero that is worth quite a bit and I'm afraid I'll show up one day and my mother will say something like "Joe" borrowed it and we will never see the painting again. I have learned to steer clear of him and so does most of the family. My mother, at 88, adores both of my brothers and can see no wrong in anything they do. "Joe" can be very convincing but I have caught him in many lies. His trick is to whip out his cell phone (which never rings), hold up one finger as if to say hold on and walk away. Shortly afterwards he usually makes a hasty exit. There are times when I can honestly say I think he's gotten to the point where he believes his own lies. It's sad to have to deal with this type of family member - but my advice is to keep as much distance between you and DS as possible. Unless and until he seems to come 'back' to his former self. Good luck.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Mozo, VR, MC, smit: He said he wanted the money (which in a retirement fund and locked up tight. I can't even imagine the tax issues!).

You'd have to take the $50K out of a retirement fund? That would be a tax disaster, for sure, and you'd be paying for it! Easy reason to say no.

 

[iLander]

Mozo, VR, MC, smit: He said he wanted the money (which in a retirement fund and locked up tight. I can't even imagine the tax issues!).

You'd have to take the $50K out of a retirement fund? That would be a tax disaster, for sure, and you'd be paying for it! Easy reason to say no.

I know, the whole idea was so ridiculous! I can't help thinking there was some reason for the attempt, though.

Boatluv: Sorry to hear that you have one of these family members, too.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Mozo, VR, MC, smit: He said he wanted the money (which in a retirement fund and locked up tight. I can't even imagine the tax issues!).

You'd have to take the $50K out of a retirement fund? That would be a tax disaster, for sure, and you'd be paying for it! Easy reason to say no.

I know, the whole idea was so ridiculous! I can't help thinking there was some reason for the attempt, though.

Boatluv: Sorry to hear that you have one of these family members, too.

Was it a secured credit card? That would provide them with a substantial credit line.

Either way, plug the numbers into turbo tax refund estimator and see how much you'd owe the IRS based on your income, etc., by taking out retirement funds and if your son asks again, you can have a concrete figure for how much this would cost you to inform him of.

 

[House Cat]

iLander,

You're such a smart lady. Trust your gut and don't let it get fogged by your unconditional love for your son. I'm really sorry this is happening. One thing I have learned in this life of mine is that time really does tell all and patience really IS a virtue.

 

[arkieb1]

Mozo, VR, MC, smit: He said he wanted the money (which in a retirement fund and locked up tight. I can't even imagine the tax issues!).

You'd have to take the $50K out of a retirement fund? That would be a tax disaster, for sure, and you'd be paying for it! Easy reason to say no.

I know, the whole idea was so ridiculous! I can't help thinking there was some reason for the attempt, though.

Boatluv: Sorry to hear that you have one of these family members, too.

O.K now this makes sense. You will see previously I asked if the paintings are worth money because I got very strongly (and I know you understand the whole vibe thing) that she wants money for something and he was arguing with her about it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yes, very possible she is using him to get money or whatever it is that she wants. I wouldn't tell him how much it would cost in taxes to withdraw $50k from the 401k. I'd ask him if he has lost his mind!!!

Did she see the paintings in your home before they disappeared? If so, she probably told him she wanted them and insisted he take them. Then when she decided she didn't want them, they were taken down and they lied about having them. I am betting she IS a sociopath and your son is falling for her schemes. If so, I hope she does leave him before something bad happens. I agree with everyone to NEVER leave them unattended in your home. Be sure your jewelry is hidden and locked up!

 

[Amber St. Clare]

I wouldn't say a word.

iLander, you have shared before how strained your relationship is with your son now that he is married. IF DIL is as crafty as you say she is, this could be bait.

Don't take it.

You know what went down with the paintings. Do you want to be right and have your son further estranged and fuel the fire that DIL has set or do you want to rise above this and begin to put this fire out?




There is a strong possibility that she won't be around forever. You have described her as controlling, lying, isolating, etc. But you need to preserve your relationship with your son for when it all falls apart. If he begins feels estranged from you too, he will cling to her more because he will feel that she is all that he has.

Just my thoughts from someone who was once there....

islander--I totally agree with this. I also remember your posts about your dilly of a DIL. You'd be playing right into her hands. And if she's as crafty as she seems your son just might wake up one morning and think "Who needs this crap?" I 'm sorry you have to deal with this, you are in a difficult spot, but you can rise above it

Wishing you a peaceful holiday.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I wouldn't say a word.

iLander, you have shared before how strained your relationship is with your son now that he is married. IF DIL is as crafty as you say she is, this could be bait.

Don't take it.

You know what went down with the paintings. Do you want to be right and have your son further estranged and fuel the fire that DIL has set or do you want to rise above this and begin to put this fire out?




There is a strong possibility that she won't be around forever. You have described her as controlling, lying, isolating, etc. But you need to preserve your relationship with your son for when it all falls apart. If he begins feels estranged from you too, he will cling to her more because he will feel that she is all that he has.

Just my thoughts from someone who was once there....

islander--I totally agree with this. I also remember your posts about your dilly of a DIL. You'd be playing right into her hands. And if she's as crafty as she seems your son just might wake up one morning and think "Who needs this crap?" I 'm sorry you have to deal with this, you are in a difficult spot, but you can rise above it

Wishing you a peaceful holiday.

Next time they come over, play the Beastie Boys, "She's Crafty."

"D. pulled me over said, "Hid your gold,
The girl is crafty like ice is cold!"
The girl is crafty - she knows all the moves
I started playing records - she knew all the grooves
He thought she was a thief - and D. was right
But I just figured she'd spend the night
When I woke up late in the afternoon
She had taken all the things from inside his room
I found myself sleeping in the middle of the floor
She had taken the bed and the chest of drawers
The mirror, the TV, the guitar cord
My remote control and my old skateboard
She robbed us blind - she took all we owned?"

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="iLander|1387484038|3577650
I think Mozo is right, he feels like he wants to get "his share".

[/quote]

iLander

I want my share too...

 

[artdecogirl]

Ilander, I am so sorry this is happening to you. If I remember correctly from your previous posts the holidays just brought out a new level of crazy from her so I too wish you a peaceful holiday season and hope that you at least get to see your ds with the least amount of drama involved.

 

[iLander]

MC, House Cat, arkieb1, diamondseeker, Amber, Artdecogirl, thank you guys for your support, it really makes me feel better. I think you all are exactly right, she has changed him a lot, he's become just like her. He just can't be straightforward or honest, it's all some kind of manipulation or power play. I've been thinking through the last few weeks and it seems pretty obvious now. I was wondering why he wanted to see us right before Thanksgiving (after months of not seeing us); it was to discuss the money scheme. He obviously didn't want to talk about it in front of DD, and he knew she'd be there for Thanksgiving.

Christmas was another power game. He said he was going to visit DIL's family in another state, so we just assumed we'd see him around New Years. DD was sad, and missed her brother at Xmas, but we figured if they were out of town, there was nothing to be done about it. Then around 11 am, we got a text photo of the two of them in front of a landmark right by their house. I couldn't believe it. I had DH check the photo info, and sure enough, they were at their home. I texted him "We thought you were going to (out of state)?" And he said "I can see now that I look back at my texts that you would assume that." Excuse me? He had specifically said "With all the driving to the in-laws we won't be able to come for Christmas". We would have driven (4 hours) to see them if we had known they were going to be home! They obviously want to be alone together, or maybe she's isolating him again. If he doesn't want to drive, just say that, don't play games. And what was the point in sending the picture? To rub our nose in the fact that they weren't out-of-town and had deliberately not come for Christmas? DH and I let it slide, so we wouldn't upset DD on Christmas. But she felt it too.

This whole relationship with DS is sliding toward dysfunctional. Whatever games they're playing, I'm just not going to play. I'll do as you all suggested and limit contact, being with him is becoming more painful and weird than being without him.

 

[Begonia]

iLander - so sorry to hear about this. I don't have much wisdom to offer. My Mom had 4 kids and used to say that you were never going to meet 4 such different people. A whole lot of questionable behavior went along that.

You aren't alone with this. We all have this kind of thing happening in our families and for those who say they don't, well I call bullshit. My sister has caused me great pain lately, so I know about hurt, although not when it involves a kid...yet.

Take care iLander.

 

[junebug17]

I'm so sorry ilander, their behavior really is so strange - it's really tough when our kids act in ways that are just so unlike them, and unlike how they were raised - no great advice, just wanted to let you know I feel for you, and I agree with Begonia that so many of us are dealing with painful relationships, you're not alone - I really hope things eventually improve, but in the meantime I guess it's best to limit contact. Hang in there, and big hugs to you.

 

[missy]

iLander, I am so sorry your son is behaving this way. I know how much you love him and how hurtful and upsetting his behavior continues to be for you and your family.

The best you can do is continue being your loving and supportive self without allowing his actions poison your feelings towards him and one day he just might realize how poorly he has behaved towards you and your family. No matter what he will always be your son but you cannot control his poor behavior and limiting contact for self preservation for now is a good recommendation because while you cannot control his behavior you can control how it affects you (at least to some degree as relationship issues are always difficult).

I hope you can just make peace with it knowing it has nothing to do with you or your dh or your dd. This is all him (and influence of his wife but still his responsibility 100% IMO) and no reflection on you in any way. (((Hugs))) and best wishes for a better relationship with him in 2014.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Well, the Thanksgiving and picture thing can make you scratch your head and ask why but I have a different take on the Christmas episode. My take would be that DIL didn't want to come to Christmas and yet he sends the picture because there is a part of him that wants to be connected to his family. He doesn't think through the fact that you would of course recognize him near his home. I think men are the world's worst in being put between a rock and a hard place. They often try so hard to placate both sides without realizing that they are just continuing to alienate both sides.

I am just a direct person so I would request a one on one meeting with him. You may not get it - particularly if DIL is clued in about it - but I would just want to talk to him alone. I don't know that I'd ask him anything - I'd just tell him that his stories don't add up and I'm not buying any of it. I would tell him he could continue whatever ruse he wants but to just know that he was not fooling me. I realize this could stir up a whole hornet's nest of trouble but I just wouldn't tiptoe around my own child. In my day, your parents were to be respected - unless they were abusive or whatever - but I don't think that's what we're talking about here. I'd have my say and he could keep his distance or play his games if he wanted. He would know though that while I still love him to the moon and back that I wasn't buying it.

Adult children can be tricky but truth is they are just grown up versions of the little ones we used to know. I didn't pull punches with them then and I still don't today. I respect their lives and their privacy but if they were to come tripping into my world with the half truths and fabrications that he does, I'd have to cry foul.

I'm sorry for your anguish. I know it's been going on for quite some time. He needs to make some choices about how he is going to live his life. Hard stuff too but if he's too afraid to upset the DIL, maybe it is best he stay away rather than keep you and your husband upset and uneasy. He can't have it both ways - we'd all love to but in the long run it usually doesn't work. I know it's easy to sit on the sidelines and give advice when you're not the one in the situation but I just couldn't listen to all of that BS and not call BS!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am so sorry, iLander. I do think he is under her influence and has to play the game to stay with her. I just hope he can get out of it before they have children. I agree with MGR, he probably did feel bad that he couldn't see you at Christmas. This woman he is married to sounds worse and worse.

{{{hugs}}}

 

[Indylady]

Well, the Thanksgiving and picture thing can make you scratch your head and ask why but I have a different take on the Christmas episode. My take would be that DIL didn't want to come to Christmas and yet he sends the picture because there is a part of him that wants to be connected to his family. He doesn't think through the fact that you would of course recognize him near his home. I think men are the world's worst in being put between a rock and a hard place. They often try so hard to placate both sides without realizing that they are just continuing to alienate both sides.

This part seems spot on to me--obviously, I don't know him, but my inclination is to think that he wanted to share with you, not to spite you, even if that was the result.

 

[pregcurious]

The people I've known to compulsively lie are those who would rather lie to get out of trouble, than to face the the consequences of their actions. They don't understand that lying itself hurts relationships because people eventually figure out the lies.

I agree with the statement not to scapegoat on your DIL. My MIL was convinced that I was limiting her time with her son/my husband. The truth is that my husband doesn't prioritize his family, and that _I_ was the one suggesting half of her invites to her house. When I told her the latter, she was shocked into silence. My husband just sat there because it was the truth. Your son is responsible for his interaction with you. Personally, I would leave my husband if he started restricting my access to my own friends and family. I would consider that to be controlling, and a form of emotional abuse.

Your son lies because he chooses to lie. The fact that he even took the paintings without asking you is really bizarre, and this was before your DIL. You probably didn't realize before how dishonest he was, but now that he's independent, perhaps you can assess things better. I can't imagine having done that to my parents when they were alive.

If you really care to make a point of this, just be consistent about pointing it out _every_ single time. After a while, it will become evident. Just realize, this will probably cause more drama in the short term, but in the long term it may be the right thing to do. If you don't fix it, your son will probably be caught in some other aspect in his life.