What do you think of this vendor response?

[lovelylulu]

I emailed a vendor about a particular EC stone that i have some interest in (though in all honesty, it might be a little soon -- we''re thinking of buying in jan) but anyway, i told them that i liked the specs of the stone but wanted to see the grading report and perhaps any pictures, idealscope, sarins, etc...

here is an excerpt:

"We do not offer any actual photographs of the diamonds. It''''s better to use the specifications from the grading report anyway (it''''s hard for a picture to do the diamond justice)."


I thought that isn''t really true at all -- especially with fancies...

what do you all think of this reply

 

[Melinda]

I think that''s a ridiculous, evasive response, esp. with fancies. I probably wouldn''t want to deal with this vendor.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 11/1/2005 3:58:01 PM
Author:lovelylulu
I emailed a vendor about a particular EC stone that i have some interest in (though in all honesty, it might be a little soon -- we''re thinking of buying in jan) but anyway, i told them that i liked the specs of the stone but wanted to see the grading report and perhaps any pictures, idealscope, sarins, etc...

I have no idea whom you contacted. It may be a good friend of mine from here. All I can say is that no one has ever refused to send me a picture of a stone. (The stones of which I wanted to see photos were colored stones, too, and as we all know one''s monitor can change the color of a stone. Everyone I asked still sent me photos, however.)

Deb

 

[belle]

Date: 11/1/2005 3:58:01 PM
Author:lovelylulu
''We do not offer any actual photographs of the diamonds. It''s better to use the specifications from the grading report anyway (it''s hard for a picture to do the diamond justice).''

a picture may not do the diamond justice but it can be very telling, especially in an ec. your request was not unreasonable. find a vendor that is willing to work with you.

 

[DiamondExpert]

As a practical matter, perhaps the vendor did not own the stone - so to get a photo of it would mean calling it in at probably $50-100 cost just to photograph it...usually ain''t gonna happen!

 

[LadyluvsLuxury]

Find a new vendor.

 

[jaz464]

I think I know which vendor you mean. When I was looking for my diamond, there was one PS vendor who told me they never send out pictures b/c you can''t tell anything from a picture when it comes to diamonds. I did NOT work with them

 

[Kaleigh]

I don''t understand their logic. Pics are extremely necessary with fancy cuts. Just doesn''t make sense. Take the asscher cut for example, you have to have pics to make a good choice. I agree, if it were me I''d find another vendor.

 

[lumpkin]

My vendor didn''t do it for me this time. They did it a year and a half ago and that photo "sold" me the diamond. I asked them for a photo this time and they said I could tell more by simply looking at it. If they had sent the photo, I could have eliminated it immediately and saved the hassle. I also would have perhaps had them keep looking. As it is I probably won''t deal with them even if I were to "trade" my pear. The company has become publicly held since my first purchase and I think they are more interested in accounting to shareholders than customers. Too bad. I wonder if it is the same vendor.

 

[Mara]

Date: 11/1/2005 4:59:26 PM
Author: DiamondExpert
As a practical matter, perhaps the vendor did not own the stone - so to get a photo of it would mean calling it in at probably $50-100 cost just to photograph it...usually ain't gonna happen!

Gary this is totally understandable from a business perspective, but in the response from the vendor they said 'it's better to use the specs from the grading report'...please! Especially with fancies that is not always the case and we always tell people on here to never just go by numbers. Saying that you can't tell anything from a photo is bull-ony in my opinion, how is anyone supposed to feel comfortable with a purchase if they can't see a picture of anything??

If cost is the prohibitive factor, then the vendor should be up front about that and try to work something out rather than saying that it's BETTER to use just the numbers. To a potential client it just makes them sound lazy or just completely incorrect. Either way I would not use anyone who did not at least try to accommodate me or discuss options with me. My two cents...

 

[valeria101]

Their opinion...

I understand that it is difficult to photograph diamonds well. But some sellers have mastered that - so there''s choice

If photos do not make stones'' justice, how about the three numbers on the lab report? That part I find annoying. Not providing photos is understandable, if these guys don''t make a living selling over the net.

Just a thought...



Hypothetically, lets'' say some buyer knows what to look for aside the stats on the lab report. And it is probably not costless for either you or that seller to keep shipping diamonds back and forth for visual inspection. What is going to give?

 

[DiamondExpert]

Mara: I agree with everything you say, and emphathize with the prospective client...however, I was just pointing out that calling in a stone for pics is not likely to happen often in response to a casual email request from an unknown client.

It goes without saying that when vendors find themselves in this position, they should immediately tell the client that they don''t own the stone and that it''s not in their posession, but that they may (subject to availability) be able to get it on memo.

I also agree that the right kind of pics are very important in describing the characteristics of a stone, and along with a complete gemmological examination, and personal/objective description of a stone, it''s possible/necessary/essential to make a fairly complete report which can go a long way toward helping a client decide if they would like to see the stone 1st hand...we always do this!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/1/2005 7:11:30 PM
Author: DiamondExpert

...calling in a stone for pics is not likely to happen often in response to a casual email request from an unknown client.

Could it be paid for though? I can''t remember to have seen such a sale policy ''pay per view'' if you wish.

Is it really a put-off, or... internet sales don''t matter enough... what gives?

 

[lovelylulu]

It''s just a shame when you find specs that seem great and want to "see" the stone and a jeweler is basically unwilling to work with you...there would be no way i would shop at this particular vendor, but perhaps someone else can get that stone for me

like i said before, it''s a little early to be seriously sourcing stones -- i think i have about a month or two more...

 

[strmrdr]

no way would i buy an ec or asscher online without good pictures.
There are way too many dogs out there.

 

[DiamondExpert]

Ana - No, it doesn''t usually, almost ever that I know of, involve paying - an exception might be where a client wants to see several stones not on site.

Usually what happens is that the initial contact email/phone call leads to further discussion/questions about the stone(s) in question, and a relationship of sorts develops to the point of the vendor taking further steps to help the client...

However, if you just go to a web site, search a generic database (by definition the stone will not be in the hands of said vendor), find a stone(s) which looks interesting and just send an email asking for pics/IS/BS/Sarin/ASET/etc., don''t expect the vendor to call in the stone(s), do the work and suddenly have it appear in you IN box, WITHOUT first having established some kind of relationship with the vendor.

On the other hand, if the stone is on site, there is no excuse, aside from lack of motivation, for not providing whatever info one can.

I think the saying, "pics can''t do justice to the stone", we all know is true, BUT it is also a cop-out because you can use them to convey certain characteristics - even if they are not professionally done.

 

[jadeleaves]

I can understand the vendor not wanting to call in the stones on memo if you are not serious about buying now, because it will cost them money to call the stones in.

However, if you are ready to purchase if the right stone is found, then there is no reason why the vendor shouldn''t call in the stones or at least try to get pictures of the stones u are interested in.

That aside, what Gary(diamondexpert) said - "calling in a stone for pics is not likely to happen often in response to a casual email request from an unknown client." - is a fair call.

I think it is important to give some sort of indication if you are ready to make a purchase because I can imagine they must get a lot of emails asking for more information and having no sale eventuate from many of those requests.

As much as we get to pick and choose which vendor we want to work with, surely the vendor is allowed to have some sort of system/criteria in place to vet out the non-serious requests/buyers? I''m all for power to the consumer, but as a businesswoman, can appreciate the need to be able to quickly determine if a potential customer is serious or just fishing.

JMHO, as always!

 

[jadeleaves]

Date: 11/1/2005 8:26:14 PM
Author: DiamondExpert
Usually what happens is that the initial contact email/phone call leads to further discussion/questions about the stone(s) in question, and a relationship of sorts develops to the point of the vendor taking further steps to help the client...

However, if you just go to a web site, search a generic database (by definition the stone will not be in the hands of said vendor), find a stone(s) which looks interesting and just send an email asking for pics/IS/BS/Sarin/ASET/etc., don''t expect the vendor to call in the stone(s), do the work and suddenly have it appear in you IN box, WITHOUT first having established some kind of relationship with the vendor.

On the other hand, if the stone is on site, there is no excuse, aside from lack of motivation, for not providing whatever info one can.

I think the saying, ''pics can''t do justice to the stone'', we all know is true, BUT it is also a cop-out because you can use them to convey certain characteristics - even if they are not professionally done.

You said it more succintly than I did

. I agree that some sort of relationship needs to be established first, be it from an exchange of emails or phonecalls.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/1/2005 8:37:33 PM
Author: JadeLeaves

I think it is important to give some sort of indication if you are ready to make a purchase because I can imagine they must get a lot of emails asking for more information and having no sale eventuate from many of those requests.

... surely the vendor is allowed to have some sort of system/criteria in place to vet out the non-serious requests/buyers?

Sure that

That''s precisely why I was wondering why no one charges for this information. The cost must be sunk somewhere, just not visible where it may serve, apparently.



Otherwise... ''talk is cheap''. (thinking... 10k Pricescope posts on a pin''s head)

 

[strmrdr]

whiteflash charges $35 to call in a stone refundable with purchase of said stone.
GOG if its something that fills a hole in his stock will bring in one or 2 free after that or if its something he normaly wouldnt carry its $40 rufunded with purchase of said stone.

I would say most vendors have simular policies.
They cant afford to call in diamonds for tire kickers all the time.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/1/2005 9:25:33 PM
Author: strmrdr

whiteflash charges $35 to call in a stone refundable with purchase of said stone.

GOG ...its $40 rufunded with purchase of said stone.

That makes more sense than the blunt ''it doesn''t matter''... even if it dind''t

 

[denverappraiser]

This actually is one of my pet peeves with the wholesale diamond dealers. The problem here is pure laziness. Someone owns that stone and listed it in the database, presumably because they want to sell it. Taking good pictures requires a bit of practice and a minor investment in tools but it’s not really all that damn hard, cameras are cheap and with the right setup you can do it very quickly. The additional cost to offer this is negligible when compared to the other costs involved. How about this as a suggestion: Take a picture or five of every single stone before you list it in the database. Red reflectors, H&A, ASETs, the works. Get a Sarin report, a Gem Advisor model and a decent scan of the lab report(s) too, while you’re at it. Post this data online so that your retailers have access to it but keep it hidden from the general public so you aren’t seen as direct selling. Presto, whenever a PS consumer or someone who is similarly picky spots one of your stones in the database and asks one of your dealers if they can get this sort of information, they have it at their fingertips without the need to bother you at all! No annoyed phone calls. No unnecessary memos. Your customers look good, they get the sale and you get the sale. The customer goes away happy knowing that they got exactly what they wanted. Everybody wins. Read the advice being given in this thread. Consumers are being repeatedly told to buy diamonds from dealers who can and will supply something that they could easily include with every single stone you offer, as long as you cooperate. Otherwise it's almost impossible. Make it easy for the dealers to supply good data on your stones and you’ve got an advantage over the other wholesalers who can’t, or won’t, go the trouble of learning to take a good picture (or hire someone else to do it). Who out there doesn't think that this would help your stones to sell better?
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/1/2005 10:21:49 PM
Author: denverappraiser


Who out there doesn't think that this would help your stones to sell better?

What does Elmyr Services do? It sort of looks like that, from a distance.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I think the vendor doesn''t have the stone in house. Either that, or the vendor is lacking in some fundamental vending skills.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 11/1/2005 10:34:21 PM
Author: valeria101

Date: 11/1/2005 10:21:49 PM

Author: denverappraiser



Who out there doesn''t think that this would help your stones to sell better?

What does Elmyr Services do? It sort of looks like that, from a distance.

Yes, and they charge about US $50 per stone to do it. Taking the pictures often demanded by Internet clients is very time consuming and someone must be paid to do it, it is much more then a minute per stone. Many of the large online vendors sell thousands of stones per month, it would cost them enormous amounts of money to do this, although most of us smaller vendors do it as a matter of course.

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

Ana,

Yes, I think that's what Elmyr does. There are a few other similar services as well. None seem to be especially popular.

Phoenix,

My point is that SOMEBODY has possession of the stone. More importantly, somebody owns the stone and is trying to sell it. They could take the pictures or arrange to have someone else take them. Digital images aren't perishable. They only need to be taken once and they can be used in every sales presentation until someone finally buys the stone. It costs nothing more than labor to create them and they can be transmitted around the globe for free forever. I can think of no good reason why a dealer selling a stone on behalf of some 3rd party can't have free and immediate access to the kind of data that consumers are clammoring for. The situation is crazy and it's the final dealer who is looking bad when it's their suppliers who are the source of the problem. Sure, they don't have posession of the stone. So what? The guy who cut the stone almost certainly had a Sarin machine at his desk and has already repeatedly scanned the stone. Where's that data? Why does the dealer need to buy their own machine if they want to know this information? Someone sent the stone to the lab to be graded. They couldn't afford a scanner? Why do consumers need to look at a fax of a fax to try and figure out what it says?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/2/2005 12:22:49 AM
Author: denverappraiser

I can think of no good reason why a dealer selling a stone on behalf of some 3rd party can''t have free and immediate access to the kind of data that consumers are clamoring for.

Neither can I... but there must be something going on.

There seem to be some attempts - not too large scale (ideal cut only concerned) or not too popular (like Elmyr & all) Without much insight, ''why not'' sounds interesting... I bet this is extremely obvious for lots of good folk. For me, these came to mind over a cup of coffee

If anyone cares to read:

Aside the pictures on Ebay and some few and far between net shops, the better known ways of showing what diamonds look like come with a moral judgement attached - a grading system of sorts. So the interest is in the branding & grades, not disclosure per se. That cat is not going back in the bag... It may be interesting to dig into the matter if some sort of display without grading attached would work and how.

There may be some bias involved - for example, the type of information presented also determines with what the item is compared because it is substantially easier to compare things based on the same data than otherwise. This may be a never ending story in theory, and surely is for now until the forms of presentation would become only marginally different from direct observation.

... for these, ''0.2 worth'' sounds overstated. Just jotted down a thought hoping to invite more of the same.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 11/2/2005 12:10:27 AM
Author: Wink

Yes, and they charge about US $50 per stone to do it. Taking the pictures often demanded by Internet clients is very time consuming and someone must be paid to do it, it is much more then a minute per stone. Many of the large online vendors sell thousands of stones per month, it would cost them enormous amounts of money to do this, although most of us smaller vendors do it as a matter of course.

Wink

It's not the vendor who should be doing it, it's the manufacturer. I'm confident that I could design a series of photo stations to take a photomicrograph or three, darkfield photo, advertising photo, IS photo, ASET photo, Hearts, Arrows, scan the report, Sarin/OGI/Helium the stone and upload all of the data to the internet in less than 20 minutes per stone. The resultant images would be better than 95% of what is currently available although they wouldn't be the best of the best. They could be used by every dealer who wants it so they don't need to each redo all of this work. There are plenty of people who are better at this sort of equipment design than I and they may be able to both reduce the time and increase the quality considerably. Yes, someone needs to be paid for this. Since most of the stones are being cut in India, we're talking about 20 minutes of Indian labor rates. That's less than a dollar to increase the saleability of a product that's being sold for thousands or even tens of thousands.

The result is to empower the dealers. If all they need to sell a stone is a price list and a fax of a fax of a lab report, bully for them. They don't need anything else and they can ignore it. Other dealers would sell more if given the right suport and they will be selling the products of the companies that provide them with that support. Importantly for the manufacturers, they will be selling more of YOUR goods instead of something listed by that guy with the fax machine. This seems like it's worth a buck.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[lovelylulu]

this is an interesting conversation and while i agree that taking photos of diamonds would be costly and labor intensive, i would never drop 10K on something i have never seen -- nor would i be willing to fork over the shipping costs to have a stone sent somewhere to be appraised if i could not first view preliminary photos. it seems like this will have to be an evolution in the industry and a necessary one.

i do take issue with the above statements along the lines of "calling in a stone for pics is not likely to happen often in response to a casual email request from an unknown client." - is a fair call. while i understand that to be true and even agree with ithe statement, that is not what happened in my case. i felt that sending my initial email, which demonstrated specific interest, was the first step at "establishing a relationship" and instead of building on that relationship, i received a reply from the vendor that froze the relationship to nothing past a GIA report and my needing to rely on specs alone to make a 9k purchase sight unseen. there was no indication that at any time down the road, even with the surest of interest, i would have been able to see this stone. that is what i object to.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/2/2005 8:40:19 AM
Author: lovelylulu
this is an interesting conversation and while i agree that taking photos of diamonds would be costly and labor intensive, i would never drop 10K on something i have never seen -- nor would i be willing to fork over the shipping costs to have a stone sent somewhere to be appraised if i could not first view preliminary photos. it seems like this will have to be an evolution in the industry and a necessary one.


i do take issue with the above statements along the lines of ''calling in a stone for pics is not likely to happen often in response to a casual email request from an unknown client.'' - is a fair call. while i understand that to be true and even agree with ithe statement, that is not what happened in my case. i felt that sending my initial email, which demonstrated specific interest, was the first step at ''establishing a relationship'' and instead of building on that relationship, i received a reply from the vendor that froze the relationship to nothing past a GIA report and my needing to rely on specs alone to make a 9k purchase sight unseen. there was no indication that at any time down the road, even with the surest of interest, i would have been able to see this stone. that is what i object to.

The vendor doesnt want your business thats the bottom line.
Find one that does.
Reading the forums here will quickly get you the names of some awesome vendors to deal with.