What do you think of my 15,48ct tanzanite?

[Tiger_Lily]

Its a IGI-certified IF 15,48ct greenish violet tanzanite
In daylight it looks bright green/violet but with camera even without flash as above, it looks more bluish purple.

Do you now the value of a stone like this?


Love from Sweden

 

[vickygigi]

Wow! I have no idea on value - I'll leave that to the experts, but it is a truly beautiful stone. What are you planning to do with it? Pendant?

 

[Tiger_Lily]

Thanks

I will either set it in a pendant ( and have it far away from sunlight, I had one fading ), or I will try to sell it at an auction. But I only get about $4000 for it at auction here in Sweden.

 

[chrono]

Tanzanite does not and should not fade when exposed to the sun or any other UV source.

 

[LD]

You had a Tanzanite that FADED? Well, that doesn't sound right at all! Did it have a report from a reputable laboratory because it sounds like a synthetic of some description. Tanzanites are NOT light sensitive and do not fade so you should be able to wear them at any time of the day - they are brittle however so not good for everyday wear.

I'm interested in learning more about your Tanzanite. Can you post the IGI report please? Because of the colour (see comments below) and the fact that you've previously owned a fading Tanzanite, I think it's important to verify the report and make sure that your stone matches the report just to be sure. Did you buy both from the same seller?

In the meantime, you've asked about value and this is difficult for several reasons - I'm going to list the pro's and con's with your stone so you can see what I mean:-

Cons:
Size - not everybody wants a monster stone (I have an 18ct Tanzanite so I'm clearly not one of them )
Colour - yours is not the colour that people regard as the colour that you typically see in Tanzanite. As yours has a lot of green I would think it's an unheated stone (nothing wrong in that) but it makes it a unique stone and people will either love the different colour or hate it.
Cut - heart shapes are not everybody's cup of tea and generally speaking people avoid them (again, I don't!).

Pros:
Size - if somebody wants a huge stone then this is a good one.
Colour - if somebody is looking for an unheated greenish stone then it's a good choice.

A top top top colour Tanzanite - ie one that is violetish Blue that looks very deep in colour (think of blue velvet) - typically it's around $350-500 per carat upwards. Don't forget these prices are when you're buying from a Vendor. If you are selling then the price you will be able to ask if likely to be lower - the second hand stone/jewellery market unfortunately doesn't usually turn a profit unless you've bought very low.

For unheated stones there is no premium and for green stones there isn't either. So how this would affect the price I'm not sure. I suspect it would be less than $300 per carat. Also, interestingly you tend to find that stones up to around 10ct attract a premium price per carat but when you start going over that, the price per carat is either the same or dips (probably reflecting that people don't like huge stones).

The company I've linked to below, sell top quality Tanzanites (so you can get a feel for the ideal colour and price range).

http://www.lapigems.com/tanzanite.asp

 

[erinl]

That is a very pretty stone!

I am curious, it seems like many people come to PS with questions regarding resale value of tanzanites in particular. I imagine like most other stones, you probably won't make a profit off of selling one, might break even or sell at a loss. Is tanzanite specifically marketed as an investment stone? I think they are really pretty and I own one myself (cut by Gene Flanigan) but I doubt I would recoup my money were I to sell it.

 

[LD]

That is a very pretty stone!

I am curious, it seems like many people come to PS with questions regarding resale value of tanzanites in particular. I imagine like most other stones, you probably won't make a profit off of selling one, might break even or sell at a loss. Is tanzanite specifically marketed as an investment stone? I think they are really pretty and I own one myself (cut by Gene Flanigan) but I doubt I would recoup my money were I to sell it.

It was but that was years ago and was when they thought it was going to run out in one generation!

NO gemstone should be bought (or marketed) as an investment stone unfortunately for all the reasons you've mentioned.

 

[Tiger_Lily]

Thanks for your replys.

Its definitly the same stone as on the IGI-certificate and the same as the stone on the page I bought it from. Is unheated stones really this blue/purple?

I made a lot of money reselling Tanzanites on an auction site in Sweden. I have made 350-500% profit of my stones.
Now theres a lot of small stones adding the Swedish market 1-2ct so I keep specialize in over 3ct stones.
I would make about $4000 on this one on the auction site, and thats a good profit, but I expect it to be worth even more in a few years, so mabe I will hold on to it. They never sold a tanzanite over 5ct on the site so mabe they will value this more.

I am very aware of the best colored stones and whats sellable. In Sweden odd colored Tanzanite/Zoisite doesnt sell at all But the ones making good blue and purple on pic makes good money.

I have had a few multi colored ones. I really dont know if they are unheated. The one that faded was supposed to be unheated and showed colored of blue/purple/pink/green/yellow. After a week in the Las Vegas sun, it came back dull looking. This is the only stone bought from that seller. But a gemologist has sold it on auction for me as a true tanzanite, and I got what I paid for it, although it was faded. So it must have been a real Tanzanite.

The value of a stone is not always what you can sell it for. I have a 8 ct red spinel that cant be sold in Sweden at all due to the lack of interest in gems here. But its worth quite a lot anyway

Showing you the one that I didnt like after it made a trip to the sun

 

[LD]

Unheated stones can be any colour and the ones that have been subjected on to a little heat but not enough to make them top colour most certainly show green/purple/blue. About 2-3 years ago these were sold on shopping channels in the UK marketed as "Chameleon" Tanzanite. However, these are not difficult to find or any more expensive than "normal" tanzanites.

Tanzanite does not fade. It's a stable material. It's impossible to know what's happened to your stone but it's more likely that it's been impregnanted with a chemical or been exposed to water or perhaps suffered some form of thermal shock or a number of other reasons. It most definitely won't be anything to do with the light/sun.

If you've sold tanzanites and made a profit then well done. Therefore if you feel you can sell this stone for a profit you should do so if you don't want to keep it. You clearly know the market in Sweden.

I would still be curious to see the IGI report on your heart stone. It should state on there whether it's heated or not.

By the way, if you buy and sell stones (especially for a profit) then you need to declare yourself as having Trade status (you can do this by changing your profile). Even if this is a side-line for you, the forum owners are very strict about you declaring this. Hope this helps.

 

[minousbijoux]

The value of a stone is not always what you can sell it for. I have a 8 ct red spinel that cant be sold in Sweden at all due to the lack of interest in gems here. But its worth quite a lot anyway

Sorry, but this made me laugh out loud. How is it worth quite a lot if no one will pay that much for it? This seems to be a common fallacy held by many. Unfortunately, really and truly, a stone is only worth what you can sell it for.

Anyway, there is no reason for me to believe that this is not a tanzanite. That said, if you can get $4k for it at auction, I would do that in a heartbeat because I don't think you would get close to that here, though I could be wrong. Good luck whatever you decide to do!

 

[Tiger_Lily]

ok, thanks will change my trading status



The report says : Natural tanzanites are commonly enhanced thermally. Indicatice evidence is typically lacking. ( doesnt all IGI reports say that? )

The seller tried to sell it as purplish blue so IGI didnt agree on that one


But I thought it needed a greater report such as GIA to really know its heated?

Yes it mabe got wrecken in some other way. Thanks I read on a few places that Tanzanite can fade, so I really though I found the evidence of that. I really hope its not so

 

[Tiger_Lily]

The value of a stone is not always what you can sell it for. I have a 8 ct red spinel that cant be sold in Sweden at all due to the lack of interest in gems here. But its worth quite a lot anyway

Sorry, but this made me laugh out loud. How is it worth quite a lot if no one will pay that much for it? This seems to be a common fallacy held by many. Unfortunately, really and truly, a stone is only worth what you can sell it for.

Anyway, there is no reason for me to believe that this is not a tanzanite. That said, if you can get $4k for it at auction, I would do that in a heartbeat because I don't think you would get close to that here, though I could be wrong. Good luck whatever you decide to do!

If you have the world as a market a red spinel is worth quite a lot. If I try to sell it in Sweden its worth at most $150/ct. So sure, its how you define it. Glad I could make you laugh.

 

[LD]

ok, thanks will change my trading status



The report says : Natural tanzanites are commonly enhanced thermally. Indicatice evidence is typically lacking. ( doesnt all IGI reports say that? )

The seller tried to sell it as purplish blue so IGI didnt agree on that one


But I thought it needed a greater report such as GIA to really know its heated?

Yes it mabe got wrecken in some other way. Thanks I read on a few places that Tanzanite can fade, so I really though I found the evidence of that. I really hope its not so

You might like to hang out a bit more here because (and I mean this with no disrespect) your knowledge of Tanzanite is a bit lacking. Unfortunately there's TONS of misinformation on the internet about all sorts of gemstones. If you're buying and selling you really need to be able to conduct basic tests yourself and know the gems you're selling inside and out. Even seasoned professionals can get caught out as there are so many synthetics and treatments out there - which all drastically affect selling price. Just as an aside AND THIS IS NOT TO DO WITH THIS STONE, there are Tanzanites that look exactly like your heart being sold in Turkey that are very very very good synthetics. Lab reports are easily obtained that are fraudulent as well so it's important that you use a lab where you can verify the report. If you're buying stones at low cost (and your other post on the Tanzanite thread suggests that to be the case), you REALLY must protect yourself.

In terms of red spinel - an 8ct red spinel (if it's red - and trust me there are so few around - I doubt that it's the red that people walk over hot coals to buy) would sell in a heartbeat either in Asia, America or Europe.

It would also be useful for you to look at labs other than GIA. GIA are foremost for diamonds but not necessary for coloured gemstones. In the US the "go to" lab for coloured gemstones is AGL. In Europe we use Gubelin, SSEF and one other who's name I can never remember!!! Since you're in Sweden, shipping costs will probably be lower to Gubelin.

 

[Tiger_Lily]

ok, thanks will change my trading status



The report says : Natural tanzanites are commonly enhanced thermally. Indicatice evidence is typically lacking. ( doesnt all IGI reports say that? )

The seller tried to sell it as purplish blue so IGI didnt agree on that one


But I thought it needed a greater report such as GIA to really know its heated?

Yes it mabe got wrecken in some other way. Thanks I read on a few places that Tanzanite can fade, so I really though I found the evidence of that. I really hope its not so

You might like to hang out a bit more here because (and I mean this with no disrespect) your knowledge of Tanzanite is a bit lacking. Unfortunately there's TONS of misinformation on the internet about all sorts of gemstones. If you're buying and selling you really need to be able to conduct basic tests yourself and know the gems you're selling inside and out. Even seasoned professionals can get caught out as there are so many synthetics and treatments out there - which all drastically affect selling price. Just as an aside AND THIS IS NOT TO DO WITH THIS STONE, there are Tanzanites that look exactly like your heart being sold in Turkey that are very very very good synthetics. Lab reports are easily obtained that are fraudulent as well so it's important that you use a lab where you can verify the report. If you're buying stones at low cost (and your other post on the Tanzanite thread suggests that to be the case), you REALLY must protect yourself.

In terms of red spinel - an 8ct red spinel (if it's red - and trust me there are so few around - I doubt that it's the red that people walk over hot coals to buy) would sell in a heartbeat either in Asia, America or Europe.

It would also be useful for you to look at labs other than GIA. GIA are foremost for diamonds but not necessary for coloured gemstones. In the US the "go to" lab for coloured gemstones is AGL. In Europe we use Gubelin, SSEF and one other who's name I can never remember!!! Since you're in Sweden, shipping costs will probably be lower to Gubelin.

Great, thanks for the info I test all my stones myself, but no, on the unheated and heated tanzanites I think there is a lot to learn. I believe tanzanites does give different answers every time you ask a new person, even dealing with them. Thats why I resold them I guess, then I get the gemologists point of view Thanks again for the info

And for the spinel - its a good red, but not the one you would kill for

 

[LD]

ok, thanks will change my trading status



The report says : Natural tanzanites are commonly enhanced thermally. Indicatice evidence is typically lacking. ( doesnt all IGI reports say that? )

The seller tried to sell it as purplish blue so IGI didnt agree on that one


But I thought it needed a greater report such as GIA to really know its heated?

Yes it mabe got wrecken in some other way. Thanks I read on a few places that Tanzanite can fade, so I really though I found the evidence of that. I really hope its not so

You might like to hang out a bit more here because (and I mean this with no disrespect) your knowledge of Tanzanite is a bit lacking. Unfortunately there's TONS of misinformation on the internet about all sorts of gemstones. If you're buying and selling you really need to be able to conduct basic tests yourself and know the gems you're selling inside and out. Even seasoned professionals can get caught out as there are so many synthetics and treatments out there - which all drastically affect selling price. Just as an aside AND THIS IS NOT TO DO WITH THIS STONE, there are Tanzanites that look exactly like your heart being sold in Turkey that are very very very good synthetics. Lab reports are easily obtained that are fraudulent as well so it's important that you use a lab where you can verify the report. If you're buying stones at low cost (and your other post on the Tanzanite thread suggests that to be the case), you REALLY must protect yourself.

In terms of red spinel - an 8ct red spinel (if it's red - and trust me there are so few around - I doubt that it's the red that people walk over hot coals to buy) would sell in a heartbeat either in Asia, America or Europe.

It would also be useful for you to look at labs other than GIA. GIA are foremost for diamonds but not necessary for coloured gemstones. In the US the "go to" lab for coloured gemstones is AGL. In Europe we use Gubelin, SSEF and one other who's name I can never remember!!! Since you're in Sweden, shipping costs will probably be lower to Gubelin.

Great, thanks for the info I test all my stones myself, but no, on the unheated and heated tanzanites I think there is a lot to learn. I believe tanzanites does give different answers every time you ask a new person, even dealing with them. Thats why I resold them I guess, then I get the gemologists point of view Thanks again for the info

And for the spinel - its a good red, but not the one you would kill for

What tests do you run and what equipment do you have?

 

[chrono]

IGI isn't well known and I would not buy stones with such a report. If in Europe, my top choices are GIA, SSEF and Gubelin. The smaller labs are not as experienced and equipment less sophisticated. You mentioned testing your own stones. What do you use and what do you check for? I'm asking out of curiosity, not making accusations. Do you understand what you are seeing in the results? I also ask this because your information on tanzanite isn't wholly accurate or correct.

 

[Tiger_Lily]

Nothing fancy. Just a refractometer, loupe and diffrent lights on the gems and diamond tester for the diamonds. Since I resend most of my stones to a real gemologists I usually get a quick answer if something would be wrong. But I never did so far, so I hope he knows what he is doing

As I said, I still have a lot to learn about tanzanites.

 

[chrono]

Is the tanzanite trichroic? You should be able to see it easily.

What tests does the gemmologist run on your behalf?

A refractometer is often used to rule out gems and does not catch synthetic or treatment. Coupled with specific gravity, UV light, filter, microscope and other tools will tell you more.

 

[LD]

Nothing fancy. Just a refractometer, loupe and diffrent lights on the gems and diamond tester for the diamonds. Since I resend most of my stones to a real gemologists I usually get a quick answer if something would be wrong. But I never did so far, so I hope he knows what he is doing

As I said, I still have a lot to learn about tanzanites.

A refractometer is a good start but it's only a tiny piece in the puzzle. For example, some synthetics have the same RI as their natural counterparts. Gem testers are really not good!

In terms of your gemmologist friend - I can only tell you that there are varying degrees of knowledge. A good gemmologist will have seen and handled a huge variety of coloured gemstones, be familiar and up to date with all types of treatment and be able to run a few more tests than you are doing BUT and this is a huge BUT he won't be able to determine treatment levels which is where you need a lab.

Let me ask you to consider this - and this is purely for talking purposes and is NOT an accusation. You've bought the heart Tanzanite for under $2k - that's about $130 per carat or less (and you said in your other thread you bought it for less than $2k). It has an IGI report. It has been nicely faceted If somebody came to me with that stone, I would be highly suspicious because this is not a stone that sells for so little (unless your photos are showing a more saturated stone - but let's assume they're accurate). So, what would be my thought process?

1. This is deal of the century;
2. Why is this being sold for so little;
3. Could this be synthetic.
4. Could this have a fraudulent lab report.
5. Is it really possible that somebody would sell it to me for so little when selling it on the internet would give them double the amount?

As I said, I've seen a number of synthetics masquerading as Tanzanite in the past few years and they are never the top colour for Tanzanite. Synthetic spinels that usually have an RI of around 1.71 can also be confused with Tanzanite.

Do you see where I'm coming from? Tanzanite is Tanzanite. It's either heated or unheated. It's very rarely treated. A few years ago there was coated Tanzanite on the market (although typically for smaller carat weights than yours). I have an article somewhere on synthetics and will see if I can find it for you.

 

[Tiger_Lily]

Yes, it shows green,violet, blue and some red flashes. And the colors change as I move the gem and is different in different light sources.

It looks just like the other multi colored I had. And like any of the other tanzanites I have. I think tanzanites have a very special color. And a tanzanite look very special on the back. So yes it looks very real to me.

Its called Kaplans and is the largest auctioneer after Bukowskis in Sweden, and the biggest on the gemstone part. I am not sure what they use more than refractometer really. I will ask them But since they are a reselling company thet would be in big trouble if they sold fake as true.

I very much understand why you question if its real. If I told what I payed for every single gem I have you would question them all, because I only make great deals Or I made a lot of very very bad ones , haha

 

[LD]

Yes, it shows green,violet, blue and some red flashes. And the colors change as I move the gem and is different in different light sources.

It looks just like the other multi colored I had. And like any of the other tanzanites I have. I think tanzanites have a very special color. And a tanzanite look very special on the back. So yes it looks very real to me.

Its called Kaplans and is the largest auctioneer after Bukowskis in Sweden, and the biggest on the gemstone part. I am not sure what they use more than refractometer really. I will ask them But since they are a reselling company thet would be in big trouble if they sold fake as true.

I very much understand why you question if its real. If I told what I payed for every single gem I have you would question them all, because I only make great deals Or I made a lot of very very bad ones , haha

Kaplans are simply auctioneers. I do not know whether they test gemstones themselves. The production of a lab report might be sufficient for them not to test. They may also have clauses in their agreement that exhonerates them if a gemstone turns out to be synthetic.

I don't understand what you mean by a Tanzanite looks very special on the back - can you tell me more please?

 

[Tiger_Lily]

Mabe some of my multi colored ones been up for this ? http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.se/2012/11/be-aware-of-fake-tanzanite.html


First the colors gets more deep on picture then just wth the eye and its quite clear, showing kind of blending color looking stright from back. I might have bought just fakes. I really dont know. Since you cant walk into a store here and compare it to a real tanzanite.

Kaplans do test them, but I do not know how more then refractometer and that they have true gemologists.

I think I will send it quick to Kaplans and mabe return it to my seller if they dont want it haha, good thing I posted it here

 

[chrono]

To say it looks like XYZ is insufficient. This is what a good simulant and synthetic aims to do. What do you mean by looking special on the back?

An auctioneer's job is to sell for as much as possible. They often do not verify the goods or check for authenticity. They are merely the medium for the seller to find buyers.

 

[Tiger_Lily]

This one do check their items as I said. And they are quite picky and doesnt over value items, in fact on the opposite.

here is a pic on the back

Its just good if you know its fake, then I can send it back before i loose my money, so thanks

 

[LD]

A tanzanite looks no different from any other gemstone from the back and this is definitely NOT a way to tell if something is natural or synthetic. Earlier on I told you that synthetic spinels could have an RI of 1.71 which is very close to the RI of Tanzanite. Where this could be very important is if you are not experienced with the refractometer or it needs calibrating. Is the heart singly or doubly refractive - can you take a photo that shows that? Do you have a dichroscope?

I've just had a quick look at Kaplans website and when they take anything for consignment (from their terms and conditions) all they simply do is search their database for similar objects that have sold in the past and then assign an estimate to them. Bidders can then bid online. Looking at the gemstones they have for sale they are, on the whole, very poor quality. Their Terms also state that they take in items on good faith but if a buyer buys something and it then turns out to be something else, Kaplans reserve the right not to give you the money OR the object back. There appears to be a window where the buyer can have items checked before Kaplans pay you (although it's not clear how this works). So based on this, I doubt very much whether they have the necessary equipment to test and/or whether they would be bothered to because it's up to the buyer to do the checking. By the way, is your spinel for sale on there? Is just over 9ct?

So, after reading this, my concern would be if somebody bought a stone from you and it was synthetic, they would have the right to keep the stone and Kaplans wouldn't give you the money - so you would lose out all round because you wouldn't be able to reclaim back from your supplier.

Sorry I haven't had the time to search for the article on synthetics but I will do before I go to bed tonight!

Edit: Here is one article:

http://www.diamonds.net/news/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=23770

 

[Tiger_Lily]

I just know that I have contact with a man that calls himself a gemologist and how the procedure is when I send them my items. And its not as simple as you make it sound I really cant see it beeing double refractive. Just 1,70

Thanks for the article

 

[LD]

Here's a few more tests you can do that will separate out whether it's a synthetic forsterite or not:

One of the easiest and most important techniques in separating synthetic forsterite from tanzanite is by observing the "doubling of back facet edges" (double refraction) due to the high birefringence of synthetic forsterite. This feature is easily visible on examination in various directions using a loupe. Tanzanite with a birefringence of 0.008 to 0.013 will not show such a strong doubling effect. Looking at the back photo of your Tanzanite, there appears to be very strong doubling - of course that's from a photo and I could be wrong!

Having said that synthetic forsterite has an RI of 1.67 so your RI test (if done on the heart) could rule that out. The RI reading is right at the top of the Tanzanite range - so it's unfortunately not conclusive.

Another quick method to seperate synthetic forsterite from tanzanite is with the aid of a Hanneman Tanzanite Filter. Synthetic forsterite will show up green through the filter part, while tanzanite will show a pinkish-orange color.

Do you have a blacklight/UV pen? Synthetic forsterite will show a weak greenish-yellow under SW-UV and a chalky orangy-yellow under LW-UV. Tanzanite is inert to both.

My hesitation with your stone is that you're saying you're seeing green and there's obvious banding in the back photo although not obvious in the front facing photos. I don't know if simulants show this or not. Here are some naturals that JTV in the US are selling (they call it Ocean Tanzanite).

http://www.jtv.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-jtv-Site/default/Search-Show?q=ocean%20tanzanite&srule=default&start=0&sz=24&showProducts=1

Can you post the IGI report? That would be helpful.

I have no idea whether this is natural or not. The price worries me but the colours are confusing. I think it would be worth sending to Gubelin.

 

[SapphireSun]

Good luck Tiger Lily! I love the colors of your Tanzanites! Really sparkly!

 

[Tiger_Lily]

Thanks

The JTV:s looks just like mine and the other ones I had that had that was multi colored. My stone is really green/violet with the eye, its just with the camera its more blue. And the colors changes as I change light or move the stone. It shows violet with red flashes when the sun was setting and I looked at it outside.

i got the double refraction now but its really high, i am not sure if its my refractometer thats been smoking something....




Thank you Sapphiresun

 

[Tiger_Lily]

Ooops I forgot...



a bit of green