Vaccination Status May Be Considered To Get ICU Beds

[aljdewey]

So the person with 3 Covid shots get the first available bed? then 2 , then 1?

Nope. This is literally pass/fail. Vaxxed (and legitimately unable to be vaxxed) go to the front of the line. 'Opt outs' get treated last........IF at all.

 

[Lookinagain]

I seriously hope the insurance companies begin to forward the bills to the 'opt out' folks, too. The shot is free - there is no excuse, and if you decide to 'opt out' of a FREE SOLUTION that prevents a stupidly expensive problem, then you should bear the financial responsibility for your reckless, costly choice too

I love this idea! And I actually think it is fair, because all of us, as a society, will eventually bear the burden of the cost of these unnecessary hospitalizations, and I don't think we should. Aren't co-pays for going to the ER much higher than going to an urgent care? Isn't that because people often abuse the ER, so therefore the cost is higher to discourage that when an urgent care will do? I think that is basically the same theory.

 

[wildcat03]

I seriously hope the insurance companies begin to forward the bills to the 'opt out' folks, too. The shot is free - there is no excuse, and if you decide to 'opt out' of a FREE SOLUTION that prevents a stupidly expensive problem, then you should bear the financial responsibility for your reckless, costly choice too.

While this sounds appealing on paper, this is really only going to punish the frontline workers who have already borne the brunt of this whole damn pandemic. Hospitals are obligated to provide care to unstable patients (EMTALA). The bills will simply pile up and go unpaid. As someone who already provides over 100,000 in uncompensated care yearly, I don't feel that I should be required to provide more - especially when patients are insured. Health insurance companies have enjoyed RECORD profits during COVID, and all this will do is further line the pockets of insurance executives.

 

[Calliecake]

Interesting, though, how the same people who cite lack of long-term safety outcomes as a reason for refusing the vax are the very same ones gobbling down veterinary medicines (which also have no long-term safety data) when they inevitably get sick.

I thought this was a joke until I read the FDA Twitter post regarding people taking ivermectin to treat Covid.

The US FDA actually had to tell people the following:

You are not a horse. You are not a cow. Seriously, y’all. Stop it.

 

[sbfairy]

I'm an ER nurse in the DFW area. I want to tell you what things are like for me. I work in a suburb of Dallas in an ER that has 12 main beds and 8 fast track beds (fast track is for people who have minor ailments-ear infections, stitches, etc.). We have a 16 bed ICU unit. We are not a trauma center but do get things like strokes, heart attacks, sepsis, etc.

Our ICU, PCU, and Med Surg units are totally full. We are holding patients in the ER for days! Yesterday there were 2 ICU patients that have been there since mid week still waiting for a bed. We shut down our Covid unit in March so now we have non-vented Covid patients mixed with Covid negative patients in the PCU and Med-Surg unit. When I left last night the 2 ICU patients were still there plus there were 3 other patients in need of an ICU bed, one of them was a stroke that I cared for.

Our waiting rooms are full and there is at least a 6 hour wait to get into an ER room. Every other phone call is a freestanding ER or other non-emergency facility requesting to transfer a sick Covid patient. We have to say no because we literally have no room. An hour before I left, a freestanding ER called 911 loaded a patient in it, and then called us to say the patient was coming. They did this because they know we can't refuse as the patient is en route. This happened twice, so there was discussion of our ER going on divert. Divert means that we don't take any patients via EMS unless it's an active stroke, heart attack--loss of life or limb is likely or imminent.

100% of my Covid patients yesterday were unvaccinated. I know this because I asked It was also apparent because none of them wanted to wear a mask in the hospital. Because there is no mask mandate in the state, management is reluctant to make people wear one. Fortunately we have a separate waiting room for our Covid patients. Some of them are offended when I come into the room wearing full gear because they "can't hear" me or "cant see" my face.

Sorry this is a rant but I am in full support of vaccine status being considered for an ICU bed. It kills me to think that my poor little old patient with the stroke is still in that ER (this patient has been vaccinated) because Covid has taken over our ICU. This however presents the problem of keeping Covid patients in the ER. Having them there literally means one less ER bed. There is really no easy answer.

 

[kenny]

The US FDA actually had to tell people the following:

You are not a horse. You are not a cow. Seriously, y’all. Stop it.

HAHAHAHAHA!





What the flying FK has happened to my beloved country?

The stupid.
It hurts.

 

[Lookinagain]

100% of my Covid patients yesterday were unvaccinated. I know this because I asked It was also apparent because none of them wanted to wear a mask in the hospital. Because there is no mask mandate in the state, management is reluctant to make people wear one.

are you saying your state doesn't even have a mask mandate in hospitals when you are full of COVID positive people in the ER with other non-Covid people who need other type of care? That is just nuts. Actually, it's criminal. Sorry.

 

[Lookinagain]

While this sounds appealing on paper, this is really only going to punish the frontline workers who have already borne the brunt of this whole damn pandemic. Hospitals are obligated to provide care to unstable patients (EMTALA). The bills will simply pile up and go unpaid. As someone who already provides over 100,000 in uncompensated care yearly, I don't feel that I should be required to provide more - especially when patients are insured. Health insurance companies have enjoyed RECORD profits during COVID, and all this will do is further line the pockets of insurance executives.

Well, if you could take their houses, or 401k or pension with an attachment for the unpaid bills, perhaps they would think a bit more about getting vaccinated and avoiding the hospital in most cases.

 

[Matata]

I'm an ER nurse in the DFW area. I want to tell you what things are like for me.

Thank you for your heroic work and efforts to help your patients. I appreciate you and all your health care brothers and sisters and fervently hope that there are support systems in place to help you all cope with the potential impact to your physical and emotional health that may occur from working so long and so hard under such stressful and sad circumstances.

 

[Bron357]

The point about vaccination is that IF you then get Covid your symptoms will be less severe and less likely to see you end up in hospital. You also have a lower virus load so you are less likely to transmit to others.
IDU beds and ventilators are a limited resource, even in the “most advanced” countries.
When there is more patients than beds or worse more desperately ill than ventilators, hard decisions have to be made.
It becomes a numbers game, literally, a score of “likelihood of recovery time based” is calculated and priority goes to those with the highest score.
Being old, being obese, having underlying health issues ie diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol reduces your score. Not being vaccinated also reduces your score.
I accept that some people are “anti vaccine” because that’s their personal choice and we permit that BUT Covid is a societal problem, personal views and values come AFTER whats best for everyone as a collective.

 

[Matata]

I accept that some people are “anti vaccine” because that’s their personal choice and we permit that BUT Covid is a societal problem, personal views and values come AFTER whats best for everyone as a collective.

 

[rainbowstarry]

For Pete’s sake - all these anti-vaxxers!! patriotism??? Patriotism is getting f’ing vaccinated!!

And wearing a mask!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

@sbfairy Im sorry your admin isn’t protecting you guys with mask mandates in the hospital. That’s infuriating. I also work in an ER setting and every staff member feels empowered to prompt patients to pull their mask up. And it’s not just for our safety, this is an ER, the room next to yours might be a cancer patient getting chemo who came in for fever. I don’t want them catching a cold, much less covid.

My major hospital in the northeast where things are not nearly as dire is also at near 100% capacity. Our vaccination rate is high 70%s for adults and so while case rates have really spiked, luckily our hospitalization rates are increasing at a still manageable rate. Thank goodness.
I think what many people dont realize is that even pre pandemic, most hospitals operated at over 90% bed capacity as a business. It doesn’t take a lot to cause overcrowding and the need to triage care or go on divert.

Also, staff shortages are also causing issues since you can have all the beds in the world but if you don’t have staff you still can’t put a patient in one. And so many people I know, especially in areas with more anti vax rhetoric, are burnt out and fed up. At the beginning I think a lot of healthcare staff sacrificed and put in extra hours out of a sense of wanting to fight and help. But at this point people aren’t willing to help themselves and us by getting vaccinated, and my nursing and physician friends in southern states are basically quitting the field, retiring early, or moving states.

Sadly I think the staff burnout is going to be affecting healthcare functioning for years to come, even if the covid surging stops. Physicians I know have had to work more hours with more volume for less pay and not allowed to take time off due to staffing. A worrying number are planning to get out once contracts are up. Makes me really sad to see my colleagues who used to love their jobs and patients now count the days until they can stop going in.

 

[sbfairy]

are you saying your state doesn't even have a mask mandate in hospitals when you are full of COVID positive people in the ER with other non-Covid people who need other type of care? That is just nuts. Actually, it's criminal. Sorry.

I'm in Texas and this is exactly what I am saying. I agree that it's criminal. It not only increases my chances of getting it but it means an increase in my ability to give it to other patients. I always go into patients rooms wearing and N95 with a surgical mask on top and a face shield. If I know the patient has Covid or symptoms, I wear a surgical cap, gown, and shoe covers. I am also 100% vaccinated. I will usually explain why they need to keep their mask on, most people will at least comply while you are in the room. For the really stubborn, if they are not super sick, I refuse to enter their room until they comply. It helps that our doctors will do this as well. When someone has pressed the issue, our management has sided with the patient. It's frustrating.

 

[sbfairy]

Thank you for your heroic work and efforts to help your patients. I appreciate you and all your health care brothers and sisters and fervently hope that there are support systems in place to help you all cope with the potential impact to your physical and emotional health that may occur from working so long and so hard under such stressful and sad circumstances.

Thank you for this. So far I've managed to not get burned out but if we are still dealing with Covid this time next year, I'm getting out of nursing

 

[AprilBaby]

So the person with 3 Covid shots get the first available bed? then 2 , then 1?

And you get none

 

[sbfairy]

@sbfairy Im sorry your admin isn’t protecting you guys with mask mandates in the hospital. That’s infuriating. I also work in an ER setting and every staff member feels empowered to prompt patients to pull their mask up. And it’s not just for our safety, this is an ER, the room next to yours might be a cancer patient getting chemo who came in for fever. I don’t want them catching a cold, much less covid.

My major hospital in the northeast where things are not nearly as dire is also at near 100% capacity. Our vaccination rate is high 70%s for adults and so while case rates have really spiked, luckily our hospitalization rates are increasing at a still manageable rate. Thank goodness.
I think what many people dont realize is that even pre pandemic, most hospitals operated at over 90% bed capacity as a business. It doesn’t take a lot to cause overcrowding and the need to triage care or go on divert.

Also, staff shortages are also causing issues since you can have all the beds in the world but if you don’t have staff you still can’t put a patient in one. And so many people I know, especially in areas with more anti vax rhetoric, are burnt out and fed up. At the beginning I think a lot of healthcare staff sacrificed and put in extra hours out of a sense of wanting to fight and help. But at this point people aren’t willing to help themselves and us by getting vaccinated, and my nursing and physician friends in southern states are basically quitting the field, retiring early, or moving states.

Sadly I think the staff burnout is going to be affecting healthcare functioning for years to come, even if the covid surging stops. Physicians I know have had to work more hours with more volume for less pay and not allowed to take time off due to staffing. A worrying number are planning to get out once contracts are up. Makes me really sad to see my colleagues who used to love their jobs and patients now count the days until they can stop going in.

I agree with everything you say. I work in a staunch anti-vax and anti-mask county. I don't think any of these people believe for one second that they won't be saved if they become sick. We literally have no ventilators available in my hospital right now. I know so many good nurses who have quit this last year. So many nurses are just angry because they don't feel protected and they feel bitter that they are expected to care for these really sick people who refuse to take basic steps to help themselves. I'm hanging in there but I no longer pick up extra shifts or agree to work on other units. That has helped me.

 

[Dancing Fire]

And you get none

No problem!. I'll let another person to use my bed.

 

[Rhea]

No problem!. I'll let another person to use my bed.

"Let" and "my" aren't words which belong in this sentence.

I'll fix it for you!
"No problem!. If I'm unvaccinated by choice I understand that the medical staff will rightfully prioritize other people who need the hospital's beds and equipment."

There!

 

[FL_runner]

HAHAHAHAHA!





What the flying FK has happened to my beloved country?

The stupid.
It hurts.

Yeah I have a colleague who was taking care of a patient with ivermectin toxicity after injecting himself with the IV cow preparation. But you know, a vaccine was too scary…

 

[FL_runner]

For Pete’s sake - all these anti-vaxxers!! patriotism??? Patriotism is getting f’ing vaccinated!!

And wearing a mask!

It’s also the embodiment of “love thy neighbor” IMO.

 

[PinkAndBlueBling]

I now know someone in Texas who made her own vaccination card. She's very proud of herself. All states need to go to an online verification system with a unique QR for each person.

 

[Lookinagain]

I now know someone in Texas who made her own vaccination card. She's very proud of herself. All states need to go to an online verification system with a unique QR for each person.

There should also be a place to report people who do this. Maybe there is already, but I haven't heard of it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

How about no ICU bed for people with obesity along with the unvaccinated?

Obesity in Patients Younger Than 60 Years Is a Risk Factor for COVID-19 Hospital Admission

To the Editor—Risk factors for infectious disease severity are determined by the pathogen, host, and environment [1]. Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19),

academic.oup.com

 

[Lookinagain]

How about no ICU bed for people with obesity along with the unvaccinated?

Obesity in Patients Younger Than 60 Years Is a Risk Factor for COVID-19 Hospital Admission

To the Editor—Risk factors for infectious disease severity are determined by the pathogen, host, and environment [1]. Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19),

academic.oup.com

That's another red herring as far as discussing vaccination status and ICU beds. First of all, the article is from August 2020, so pre-vaccine. Secondly, it would only be relevant to the discussion if they were comparing vaccinated obese people to the unvaccinated and the finding was that vaccinated obese people were taking up a large % of ICU beds, just as the unvaccinated are. I doubt that is the case in the ICU's today.

 

[chemgirl]

How about no ICU bed for people with obesity along with the unvaccinated?

Obesity in Patients Younger Than 60 Years Is a Risk Factor for COVID-19 Hospital Admission

To the Editor—Risk factors for infectious disease severity are determined by the pathogen, host, and environment [1]. Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19),

academic.oup.com

Overcoming food addiction is just a touch more difficult than sitting still for 30 seconds while you get a vaccine.

Unless you’re implying that being anti vaxx is a form of mental illness. In which case you probably have a point.

 

[Arcadian]

Most of the medical exemptions are just excuses.

I don't disagree totally but you also have some dr's waiting for more conclusive data too. My sister has active Leukemia and did get the OK a only a couple weeks ago for the vaccine. But prior to that? it was a no because they felt data was lacking.

Science isn't a one trick pony and is a moving target, especially with covid which changes sometimes daily.

My mom's dr still has not given her OK for it (my mom has lupus, can't take lots of stuff, and has not been well for a while now) for now, the plan is to keep her as protected as possible. Everyone else in the house is vaccinated. her home health nurse is also vaccinated which helps a lot. I believe we're starting to wear her down though (my mom wants to get it).

 

[chemgirl]

I don't disagree totally but you also have some dr's waiting for more conclusive data too. My sister has active Leukemia and did get the OK a only a couple weeks ago for the vaccine. But prior to that? it was a no because they felt data was lacking.

Science isn't a one trick pony and is a moving target, especially with covid which changes sometimes daily.

My mom's dr still has not given her OK for it (my mom has lupus, can't take lots of stuff, and has not been well for a while now) for now, the plan is to keep her as protected as possible. Everyone else in the house is vaccinated. her home health nurse is also vaccinated which helps a lot. I believe we're starting to wear her down though (my mom wants to get it).

As someone with a chronic illness, I did ask my medical team about vaccination. There are extreme circumstances where the vaccine might not be appropriate.

I’ll maintain that those situations are few and far between. To quote my father-in-law’s cardiologist 2 weeks after his valve replacement surgery “Get vaccinated because covid will probably kill you”. Meanwhile I’ve seen many people use heart concerns as a reason to avoid the vaccine.

My local cancer centre considered Leukaemia a vaccine priority condition months ago and there was literature about the importance of vaccination amongst those with blood cancers. So it does seem that not all doctors agree and that can be confusing for patients.

These conditions are the exception though. I’ll maintain that a very low percentage of the population have a valid reason to avoid vaccination.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I agree with everything you say. I work in a staunch anti-vax and anti-mask county. I don't think any of these people believe for one second that they won't be saved if they become sick. We literally have no ventilators available in my hospital right now. I know so many good nurses who have quit this last year. So many nurses are just angry because they don't feel protected and they feel bitter that they are expected to care for these really sick people who refuse to take basic steps to help themselves. I'm hanging in there but I no longer pick up extra shifts or agree to work on other units. That has helped me.

Yeah. Take care of yourself! I think a lot of us are learning that while we might feel loyalty to our patients and hospitals, the feeling is far from mutual. Sigh.

 

[doberman]

I agree with this except in the case where the paient is a child. But healthcare workers are getting burnt out and it's infuriating to help those who won't help themselves and expect you to bail them out at the 11th hour.

My son had a female patient yesterday, unvaccinated, low chance of survival. The unvaccinated husband was there feeling guilty for them not being vaccinated. This scene is playing out all over the place, and it's sad, but also frustrating as hell.