Using Benzene for Rough Marking Causes Cancer

[mkb]

Recently 4 people in Surat (India) were diagnosed with some kind of bone cancer (correct me if the type of cancer is wrong), allegedly caused by them using benzene for cleaning the white coating (used for contrast when planning a rough stone) off the diamond.
It kinda angers me, having been fighting for years to make tool manufacturers stop using cobalt in diamond impregnated scaives, and still fighting to make diamond polishers stop using lead wheights.
I don''t know whether benzene was delivered as a ''standard'' product with the sarin, or it was something the users found to clean it.

It takes something away from the sparkle of our work

 

[mkb]

guess I must have scared people,
sorry didn''t intend to
luc

 

[mkb]

Steve,

I appreciate your reaction, I am not trying to start a campaign against sarin.
Although the instructions on how to use hazardous material ''if'' delivered with the sold product is up to the manufacturer of the product in the first place. That is ''if'' the client was made aware that he was using a dangerous chemical and ''if'' the manufacturer was aware it was selling/promoting or neglecting an introduced one. One would expect better with a 30k $ machine of which one needs plenty to run a serious size operation.
For argument''s sake: is it ethical to sell a product to someone if you somehow know that they will not be able (or knowledgable enough) to use it safely?
Although your''s is a normal reaction considering the circular letter from the DTC warning the sightholders
to make sure that no hazardous products are used in the factories, following the incident. Blame it on the users, they should have read the small print on the label.
plse send me some more moral story on what I should better do.
luc

 

[Serg]

Date: 7/26/2005 10:59:25 AM
Author: Feydakin
Properly handled, benzene, lead, cobalt, and most other ''hazardous'' elements and chemicals are perfectly safe..

I would think that instead of starting a campaign agasint the makers of the Sarin machine your efforts would be better served by trying to educate those, and their direct supervisors, that are actually using the materials in question as to how they can be used safely..

What is Properly handled, benzene (are perfectly safe) ?
Could you give link?

A lot of Indian will happy receive such information.

Some operators are using benzine. It is dangerously too.

FYI. At least one is dead already.

 

[mkb]

Sergey,
I am a belgian. I would be deligted to get that information too.
br
luc

 

[strmrdr]

Do you know or can you get exactly what they are using?

The manufacturers are required to make available material safety sheets for all chemicals used in the U.S. so if its something thats used here it should be available.
A lot of the sheets are available online.
A search for benzene material safety sheets shows that the precautions vary depending on the mixture and type.

 

[mkb]

ok,

now you''re happy. Sleep with the ghost of the one who died allready.
luc

 

[Serg]

Date: 7/26/2005 12:41:10 PM
Author: mkb
Sergey,
I am a belgian. I would be deligted to get that information too.
br
luc

http://www.listedcompany.com/ir/sarin/newsroom/safeproducts.pdf

In Sarin Announcements from 28 June You can find term Medical Benzene.

But I did not find any other mention about Medical Benzene. What is it?

From Russian OGI distributor I received recommendation to use Benzene.
In my information the safe solution is absent yet.

 

[mkb]

Date: 7/26/2005 12:53:14 PM
Author: mkb
ok,


now you''re happy. Sleep with the ghost of the one who died allready.

luc

this reaction was oviously meant for steve

 

[Serg]

Date: 7/26/2005 12:44:32 PM
Author: Feydakin
Appears I was right, it is a campaign.. Thanks for playing..

BTW, information on properly handling Benzene has been available since the 80s..

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/benzene/index.html

Took just seconds to find..

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/benzene/index.html

I did not find here any information about hadling safe Benzene.

re:Appears I was right, it is a campaign.. Thanks for playing..

You are wrong.
It is old information, well known for Indian cutters( Main Sarin market)
PS can not do damage to SArin by this information more.

BTW. We sent such information to Moscow cutters 1+ month ago.

Was it campaign too?

Was Rapaport do campaign too?

 

[Serg]

re: Do you know or can you get exactly what they are using?

One part is like correction fluid , other organic dissolvent ( Could be benzene, benzine, acetone)

It is mutual problem for Sarin, OGI, OctoNus and cutters , I hope.

May be third part can find good solution

 

[mkb]

sergey,

I hope so too, this technology is now this integrated in the manufacturing industry, that it would be difficult to go without it.
But I''ll be damned to die for it, and even worse, somewone who works for me.
luc

 

[mkb]

Steve,

I agree, but for the sake of the simple users (like myself), it doesn''t hurt to make it an issue.
Just hoping that safety becomes an issue on par with marketting, so I can spend more time training our people instead of having to study chemistry to make sure they don''t get harmed.

with due respect,
luc

 

[Serg]

Date: 7/26/2005 1:25:38 PM
Author: Feydakin
I know, I'm asking too much..

3 clicks later leads to this

http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/0197.pdf

1 click leads to a page with a category called 'training'

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/benzene/otherresources.html

I know, none of that maters.. Someone died.. So that trumps everything else.. Ban the benzene.. You said yourself that you didn't even know if Sarin shipped benzene based cleaners with their machines, but you titled the thread - Did Sarin management know benzene causes cancer.. Sounds like a campaign to me.. It's not terribly important to find the facts out first, just make a cool sounding post and hope poeple join the crusade..

You'll also notice that at no time did I ever say that benzene was safe, or that I was happy that someone died.. I simply pointed out that you have issues..

I had check all your links fast.
There are a lot rules for work with Benzene. Nothing about Medical Benzene or any other safe type benzene.

Could you give( print) any real information about any safe type benzene.
Or do you want continue your bad game?

 

[dandoboy]

Although I don''t have a strong understanding of the Sarin machine or techniques, I do have a strong biochecical background. Benzene and/or any aromatic hydrocarbons based on the benzene ring are carcinogenic. This has been established for many years. Benzene is still used however because it''s quite a unique chemical, and is especially useful as a non-polar (oil-based) solvent. As was mentioned a few posts ago, North American standards require MDSD sheets to accompany pretty much any chemical that is used, period. The trouble clearly comes into play when countries outside North America use these same chemicals, but don''t have the same safety requirements or disclosure requirements as we are used to.

To illustrate this point, consider that most drug companies do their research and market and release their drug in Eastern European and Asian countries first because the government is far less stringent when it comes to safety standards. A company can get a drug approved up to 10 years earlier in Euro-Asia w.r.t. North America.

It''s a shame to hear that a life had to be lost to a chemical we know can kill.

 

[Serg]

re:know that cleaning diamonds with benzene is dangerous and should be handled properly with due care and safety..

The cleaning diamond is not main problem. It could be done safety easy .
to Paint diamond for Laser Mapping is main problem, If you want receive perfect result . it is not easy received in glove and gas-mask

 

[Serg]

Date: 7/26/2005 1:48:52 PM
Author: Feydakin

Date: 7/26/2005 1:42:33 PM
Author: Serg
Could you give( print) any real information about any safe type benzene.
Or do you want continue your bad game?

Sergey, there is no ''safe'' benzene.. Just proper handling procedures.. I''m done doing your research.. I''ve given you plenty of starting points.. Go forth and learn using the power of the mighty google.. Or, better yet, call you respective government agency that is responsible for this type of information..

I did it more then month ago. I informed about my result in my posts above. Please read again my and your first posts.

I know, I''m asking too much..

 

[mkb]

The chevy dealer is,
remember the tyres (not necesseraly on the chevey) a few years ago.
That someone allready died I didn''t know untill today (sergey).
The strategy I agree.
To sarin, I''m probably one of their biggest clients on laser mappers, they will never know (I am not the one who buys them, just the one who tells the cy that I need them, and I do).
This thread has given me an idea on the ''players'' manipulating the scene. In this case I can''t tell the colour of your hair (your obviously not the dumb blond).
I do think that we are on a wrong forum, to persue this issue. If I could suggest PS to open one for ''the more involved''?

 

[aljdewey]

At the risk of sounding like a crab......enough already, huh?

Look, rat poison is safe to use if you use it according to the instructions---to put down to kill rats. It''s NOT safe if you eat it yourself. Same could be said of many things.

Frankly, EVERYTHING causes cancer these days. If you grill your meats at too high a temperature, a chemical occurs in the protein that is carcinogenic to humans. Two months ago, research came out that wheat and potato products cooked above a certain temperature naturally produce a chemical that is carcinogenic as well.

Are you going to stop eating grilled hamburgers, bread, baked potatoes, potato chips, french fries, pies, cookies, etc., etc., etc.?

There are people who do all the right things--all the healthy things--and STILL get cancer.

 

[Serg]

Date: 7/26/2005 2:39:40 PM
Author: aljdewey
At the risk of sounding like a crab......enough already, huh?

Look, rat poison is safe to use if you use it according to the instructions---to put down to kill rats. It''s NOT safe if you eat it yourself. Same could be said of many things.

Frankly, EVERYTHING causes cancer these days. If you grill your meats at too high a temperature, a chemical occurs in the protein that is carcinogenic to humans. Two months ago, research came out that wheat and potato products cooked above a certain temperature naturally produce a chemical that is carcinogenic as well.

Are you going to stop eating grilled hamburgers, bread, baked potatoes, potato chips, french fries, pies, cookies, etc., etc., etc.?

There are people who do all the right things--all the healthy things--and STILL get cancer.

Operators was very young.( near 20 old)
2-3 years intensive work with benzene enough to received cancer marrow.

Is it like potato chips?
We used prepared paint earlier with benzene. But I had not any information 2 month ago that paint has Benzene.
And more important I had not any information why is Benzene dangerous.

It was very spread paint in cutters. A lot of cutters used it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

1. A group of us who post here regularly have been aware of this for a month.
2. we deliberately did not start a ''campaign'' on Pricescope because that is too cheap in the circumstances.
3. two young people have died
4. a large number of influential diamondtaires from India lurk here

I think there has been enough said, and nothing accomplished. Leonid? What do you think?

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Hi all, not that often that I get out to play

I am sorry to hear of these deaths from cancer which have been attributed to the use of Benzene

Leonid, I think that the heading should be changed, as it's pointing a finger here without true detailed evidence.

Let's not be the Judge Jury and Hangman

I think it's very important to point out the use of Benzene and the dangers of missusing it and the consequences of continued use.
This is the responsible thing to do, let us not point the fingers at companies without all the necessary facts

 

[mkb]

Hi,
Plse Leonid, let''s do that, the heading is too strong, I admit the mistake. Gary and Brian are right

br
luc

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

OK, good idea - lets try to make this a positive post.

What are the other alternatives?

1. I believe that Benzine with an i is touted as an alternative.
This might also be what Sarin called Medical Benzine?

2. Acetone is also used

Are there any bio experts or medics who can tell us more about this? The chemicals are needed to act as solvents, to remove the stuff like liquid paper that is painted onto a diamond to make it opaque before laser mapping or laser marking.

The topics are dicussed here in the Journal Article

 

[Serg]

Date: 7/27/2005 8:03:43 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
OK, good idea - lets try to make this a positive post.

What are the other alternatives?

1. I believe that Benzine with an i is touted as an alternative.
This might also be what Sarin called Medical Benzine?

2. Acetone is also used

Are there any bio experts or medics who can tell us more about this? The chemicals are needed to act as solvents, to remove the stuff like liquid paper that is painted onto a diamond to make it opaque before laser mapping or laser marking.

The topics are dicussed here in the Journal Article

1) solvent should has very good wetting ability for diamond, volatile and safty. This is very hard combination .

2) re:Sarin called Medical Benzine. Sarin concocted Medical Benzene. Garry concocted Medical Benzine. Could we stop such inventions?

 

[mkb]

hi gary,
what about

can we solve the benzene problem?

luc

 

[mkb]

TYVM Leonid?