Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fired!

[FrekeChild]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Slightly off topic, but since the A word has been brought up, I figure I'd mention it.

There is a VERY strong correlation (relationship) between Roe vs. Wade (read: ABORTION) and a major decrease in the crime rate 18 years later.

Women who had unwanted pregnancies were terminating them, and then 18ish years later the crime rate went down.

Back on topic:

I think this idea is absolute hogwash. Birth control is much less expensive for a company than a pregnant woman.

Even with insurance (from my company, although this is a recent benefit addition), my BC was $35 per month out of pocket. No time off work, nothing.

My insurance and the birthing hospital are still figuring out the numbers, but I cost $17k to give birth almost 4 months ago. Luckily for my employer, her company is small enough that she didn't have to give me any paid leave. However, should I have taken 12 weeks paid leave, it would have cost her roughly $7k to have me be pregnant, give birth and take leave after that.

Should I choose to NOT take birth control and start popping out kids like Michelle Duggar, I would be a very expensive and not very productive employee. Since I choose to take BC I'm NOT costing my employer that $7k per kid.

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Get your facts straight, beebrisk-MissStepCut is correct. Ms. Fluke's school, Georgetown, has a health insurance plan that does not cover birth control, as it is a Catholic institution. The compromise offered by the Obama administration would result in INSURANCE COMPANIES paying for birth control pills entirely, so that religious institutions don't have to offer it in their insurance coverage. NO tax dollars are involved. And insurance companies don't mind paying for BC, because birth control pills are a lot cheaper than prenatal care and delivering a baby.

So once again, TAX DOLLARS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. NOTHING. AT ALL. I know it's super hard to believe, but Rush Limbaugh completely made that up.

What is super hard to believe is that so many don't understand that indeed their tax dollars are being used to fund BC.

You see, the new plan forcing insurers to provide free BC for everyone (free of charge) has also to resulted in higher premiums for everyone. (Mine has just gone up 15% over last year). Eventually, as individuals can no longer afford to insure themselves (those not covered by an employer) they will be forced into the public program. As soon as employers realize it is cheaper to pay the penalties for not insuring their workers, they will drop coverage all together and all those people will be forced onto "the dole" for healthcare. Tax dollars currently cover BC under Title X rules and tax dollars will be covering it for everyone as soon as the "Affordable Health Care Act" is in full effect.

But I know it's super hard to believe that the president lied when he said if we like our insurance and our doctors, we can keep them.

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

whether married or unmarried there is a need for birth control and it is to society's benefit economically to make it cheap and easy to access.

Not necessarily. I haven't been on birth control for a long time. My husband and I use a combination of natural family planning methods. I didn't get pregnant until the month we were trying. Not saying this will work for everyone, because it takes time and discipline. But those are small prices to pay to avoid being on hormonal bc. I have several friends who do this as well. Not for religious reasons, just a dislike of synthetic hormones. None of us have ever had an accident.

Well we had an accident.

Just because one method works for some people some of the time doesn't make for sensible public policy. People who are young, new to sex, uneducated about birth control (yay abstinence only education!), etc are the most likely to have birth control failures. In other words, those who I least want to see be parents.

People who are "new to sex"? What exactly does that mean? You first have to have sex to understand that doing so can cause you to become pregnant? Or maybe you have to be really experienced and really good at it ( ) to figure out that sperm can fertilize an egg? Apparently those people don't just need birth control, they need brains!

Either way, I don't wanna pay for it.

I take strong exception to this.

My DD and her friends have been subjected to "abstinence-only" sex education. The questions these teens have asked me indicate to me that they have NO IDEA about birth control or sex. These are intelligent girls, scoring high on AP tests, heavy-duty challenging curriculum. One thought the pill prevented AIDS. Another girl thought spermicide prevented AIDS. Another asked my DD if her (the other girl's) boyfriend's fingers (post-ejaculation) could carry enough sperm . . . well . . . (the question made me blush, but I answered her so she could pass it along). You are not Born knowing something. You have to be taught every single thing that you learn. I think the new refusal of the schools to teach kids about sex is ridiculous. These girls we only taught "abstinence is 100% effective" repeatedly. Nothing else.

ETA: I told my DD to pass out the planned parenthood web address to all her friends, because they have reliable info. Sad state of affairs, if you ask me.

This is scary. No where here do you mention the responsibility of the parents to impart any of this information to their children.

If we have become a society that completely turns over to the state (school) and Planned Parenthood what should be sound, solid guidance by parents, then we are in bigger trouble than I ever thought.

 

[kenny]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

What is super hard to believe is that so many don't understand that indeed their tax dollars are being used to fund BC.

If that's true then BC is a huge bargain for us taxpayers.

BC pills prevent abortions and are MUCH cheaper than welfare & foodstamps for unwanted kids.
When the unwanted welfare kids grow up probably a disproportionate number of them will be supported by our tax dollars in the prison system.

Preventing unwanted pregnancy before they start is wise.
Abstinence will prevent some, and BC will prevent others.
I don't care which people use, but clearly accepting both will be more effective since people vary.
Insisting on only one approach means some women will be left out and have unwanted pregnancies.

Wanting babies to be wanted is not eugenics.

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

What is super hard to believe is that so many don't understand that indeed their tax dollars are being used to fund BC.

If that's true then BC is a huge bargain for us taxpayers.

BC pills prevent abortions and are MUCH cheaper than welfare & foodstamps for unwanted kids.
When the unwanted welfare kids grow up probably a disproportionate number of them will be supported by our tax dollars in the prison system.

Preventing unwanted pregnancy before they start is wise.
Abstinence will prevent some, and BC will prevent others.
I don't care which people use, but clearly accepting both will be more effective since people vary.
Insisting on only one approach means some women will be left out and have unwanted pregnancies.

Wanting babies to be wanted is not eugenics.

Bravo, Kenny. This argument is so logical and sound. It really confounds me that people argue against it, but as illustrated in this thread, clearly some do.

 

[ericad]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

whether married or unmarried there is a need for birth control and it is to society's benefit economically to make it cheap and easy to access.

Not necessarily. I haven't been on birth control for a long time. My husband and I use a combination of natural family planning methods. I didn't get pregnant until the month we were trying. Not saying this will work for everyone, because it takes time and discipline. But those are small prices to pay to avoid being on hormonal bc. I have several friends who do this as well. Not for religious reasons, just a dislike of synthetic hormones. None of us have ever had an accident.

Well we had an accident.

Just because one method works for some people some of the time doesn't make for sensible public policy. People who are young, new to sex, uneducated about birth control (yay abstinence only education!), etc are the most likely to have birth control failures. In other words, those who I least want to see be parents.

LOL, in my twenties DH and I spent months researching natural family planning when I got off the pill. I took my temperature, did the whole 9 yards. Oopsie, got pregnant. Not sure how it happened!

So we figured we did something wrong, and went back and double checked everything and continued with the natural methods. Worked great for years. Then uh-oh. Another WTF? moment, lol. After that we lost confidence and tried various other things until we decided to get pregnant ON PURPOSE, which resulted in our daughter. Since then, we've successfully used natural methods again for 7 years with no mishaps. It's not foolproof - sometimes your body throws you a curve ball, or two

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

What is super hard to believe is that so many don't understand that indeed their tax dollars are being used to fund BC.

If that's true then BC is a huge bargain for us taxpayers.

BC pills prevent abortions and are MUCH cheaper than welfare & foodstamps for unwanted kids.
When the unwanted welfare kids grow up probably a disproportionate number of them will be supported by our tax dollars in the prison system.

Preventing unwanted pregnancy before they start is wise.
Abstinence will prevent some, and BC will prevent others.
I don't care which people use, but clearly accepting both will be more effective since people vary.
Insisting on only one approach means some women will be left out and have unwanted pregnancies.

Wanting babies to be wanted is not eugenics.

Bravo, Kenny. This argument is so logical and sound. It really confounds me that people argue against it, but as illustrated in this thread, clearly some do.

Agree.

 

[Lotus99]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

When you're young, you're much more fertile. In your teens and 20s, it's just a lot easier to get pregnant, whatever methods you're using to try to prevent it (or to encourage it). I think as early as your mid 20s, the fertility starts to drop off.

I think this is a contributing factor to why teens get pregnant. Not only are they hornier, they also get pregnant more easily.

I'm all for a thorough education in contraception. The idea of sex education is to prepare you for life. That doesn't just include the teen years, but also your married years when you may want to space your children out. If you go into life not knowing what it is and how it works, you've lost out on important information.

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Free BC and easy, widespread access to it, has been available to anyone who needs it since the 70's.

I'm no expert on the 'facts' of this one but if I were a betting person, I'd say welfare rolls have not been positively affected in the span of 40-something years.

Fact is, there are more Americans relying on food stamps today than ever before, so empirical evidence simply does not support the correlation between free and low cost BC and lower welfare rates. Not even close.

 

[MissStepcut]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

This is scary. No where here do you mention the responsibility of the parents to impart any of this information to their children.

If we have become a society that completely turns over to the state (school) and Planned Parenthood what should be sound, solid guidance by parents, then we are in bigger trouble than I ever thought.

I grew up in Iowa. My mom was the only mom I knew who didn't teach abstinence-only education at home just like we were taught in school. But then I was still forbidden from getting birth control pills, as were several of my friends, because obviously good responsible teen girls don't do anything so irresponsible as to go all the way with a boy, right? When parents refuse to admit that teens might have sex, and every place in town that sells condoms keep them locked behind the counter (and don't forget the cashier knows your parents) I think the best thing a teen could do is show up at Planned Parenthood for some confidential education. If only people wouldn't protest opening new Planned Parenthoods in rural Iowa. The closest one was a 2 hour drive away.

And I don't think we've "become" a society like that at all. I think we've remained a society that keeps sex closeted, even between children and parents. I seriously doubt the parents of my friends back in Iowa got a thorough sex ed talk from their parents but decided to deprive their children of the same.

 

[MissStepcut]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Free BC and easy, widespread access to it, has been available to anyone who needs it since the 70's.

I'm no expert on the 'facts' of this one but if I were a betting person, I'd say welfare rolls have not been positively affected in the span of 40-something years.

Fact is, there are more Americans relying on food stamps today than ever before, so empirical evidence simply does not support the correlation between free and low cost BC and lower welfare rates. Not even close.

You seem to think that everyone has exactly the access that you have. Please see my post above.

 

[ericad]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

What is super hard to believe is that so many don't understand that indeed their tax dollars are being used to fund BC.

If that's true then BC is a huge bargain for us taxpayers.

BC pills prevent abortions and are MUCH cheaper than welfare & foodstamps for unwanted kids.
When the unwanted welfare kids grow up probably a disproportionate number of them will be supported by our tax dollars in the prison system.

Preventing unwanted pregnancy before they start is wise.
Abstinence will prevent some, and BC will prevent others.
I don't care which people use, but clearly accepting both will be more effective since people vary.
Insisting on only one approach means some women will be left out and have unwanted pregnancies.

Wanting babies to be wanted is not eugenics.

The best countries in the world focus on prevention. It works. Well said, Kenny.

 

[ericad]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Get your facts straight, beebrisk-MissStepCut is correct. Ms. Fluke's school, Georgetown, has a health insurance plan that does not cover birth control, as it is a Catholic institution. The compromise offered by the Obama administration would result in INSURANCE COMPANIES paying for birth control pills entirely, so that religious institutions don't have to offer it in their insurance coverage. NO tax dollars are involved. And insurance companies don't mind paying for BC, because birth control pills are a lot cheaper than prenatal care and delivering a baby.

So once again, TAX DOLLARS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. NOTHING. AT ALL. I know it's super hard to believe, but Rush Limbaugh completely made that up.

What is super hard to believe is that so many don't understand that indeed their tax dollars are being used to fund BC.

You see, the new plan forcing insurers to provide free BC for everyone (free of charge) has also to resulted in higher premiums for everyone. (Mine has just gone up 15% over last year). Eventually, as individuals can no longer afford to insure themselves (those not covered by an employer) they will be forced into the public program. As soon as employers realize it is cheaper to pay the penalties for not insuring their workers, they will drop coverage all together and all those people will be forced onto "the dole" for healthcare. Tax dollars currently cover BC under Title X rules and tax dollars will be covering it for everyone as soon as the "Affordable Health Care Act" is in full effect.

But I know it's super hard to believe that the president lied when he said if we like our insurance and our doctors, we can keep them.

Bee, your example doesn't show how our tax dollars are being used, your example shows your perceived worst case scenario of how they might be used in the case of a government sponsored health care system, which was taken off the table long ago. What's this mysterious healthcare "dole" you're talking about? What public program? I'm confused. What did Obama lie about - where is the evidence that he's taking away private insurance? I implore you, show me where in the plan you're seeing this?

 

[ericad]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

I grew up in Iowa.

You just reminded me of one of my all time favorite songs ever - Iowa by Dar Williams. I haven't listened to it in a long time - gonna dust it off tomorrow! Totally unrelated and irrelevant, just popped into my head, lol.

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Free BC and easy, widespread access to it, has been available to anyone who needs it since the 70's.

I'm no expert on the 'facts' of this one but if I were a betting person, I'd say welfare rolls have not been positively affected in the span of 40-something years.

Fact is, there are more Americans relying on food stamps today than ever before, so empirical evidence simply does not support the correlation between free and low cost BC and lower welfare rates. Not even close.

You seem to think that everyone has exactly the access that you have. Please see my post above.

No I don't think that. Title X clinics can be found in 75% of US counties. Granted, that's 25% uncovered. But are you trying to say that if made available to the underserved 25%, the welfare rolls would magically decline ? Not likely. While there has been a very slight downturn in the last couple of years, we continue to have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the world.

I'd be interested to know the correlation between "access" and "usage". Just because a person has access, doesn't mean they will take advantage of it or use it properly. I don't profess to know for sure, but I suspect this can be demonstrated by the welfare rolls in large cities where "access" is on every corner.

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Get your facts straight, beebrisk-MissStepCut is correct. Ms. Fluke's school, Georgetown, has a health insurance plan that does not cover birth control, as it is a Catholic institution. The compromise offered by the Obama administration would result in INSURANCE COMPANIES paying for birth control pills entirely, so that religious institutions don't have to offer it in their insurance coverage. NO tax dollars are involved. And insurance companies don't mind paying for BC, because birth control pills are a lot cheaper than prenatal care and delivering a baby.

So once again, TAX DOLLARS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. NOTHING. AT ALL. I know it's super hard to believe, but Rush Limbaugh completely made that up.

What is super hard to believe is that so many don't understand that indeed their tax dollars are being used to fund BC.

You see, the new plan forcing insurers to provide free BC for everyone (free of charge) has also to resulted in higher premiums for everyone. (Mine has just gone up 15% over last year). Eventually, as individuals can no longer afford to insure themselves (those not covered by an employer) they will be forced into the public program. As soon as employers realize it is cheaper to pay the penalties for not insuring their workers, they will drop coverage all together and all those people will be forced onto "the dole" for healthcare. Tax dollars currently cover BC under Title X rules and tax dollars will be covering it for everyone as soon as the "Affordable Health Care Act" is in full effect.

But I know it's super hard to believe that the president lied when he said if we like our insurance and our doctors, we can keep them.

Bee, your example doesn't show how our tax dollars are being used, your example shows your perceived worst case scenario of how they might be used in the case of a government sponsored health care system, which was taken off the table long ago. What's this mysterious healthcare "dole" you're talking about? What public program? I be confused...

You're right. I forgot there's a magic pot of gold that's been reserved just to cover universal health care. No tax dollars needed. The insurance fairy pays for it!

But now I'm confused because the president told me it would cost $900 billion and just this week the CBO told me it would end up being 3x that amount!

I guess the worst case scenario would be that the insurance fairy isn't real. Could that be??

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

.....Fact is, there are more Americans relying on food stamps today than ever before, so empirical evidence simply does not support the correlation between free and low cost BC and lower welfare rates. Not even close.

i agree there are more Americans relying on food stamps today than ever before but i believe that has to do with the ECONOMY which has driven many people out of their homes, into the streets, into shelters, and onto assistance programs.

kenny, you said it all.

further, i don't give a iota that my tax dollars might go for BC. in fact, i'd rather they go for BC than for many other things.

 

[justginger]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

I think to those in places of affluence, or comfort, the $20/month or whatever in birth control seems like a token gesture - and to not purchase it by oneself is flagrant irresponsibility. But you have to remember that for many women who find themselves in a state of unplanned motherhood, life doesn't operate the same. Many have very low paying, sporadic jobs. Many have NO jobs because they're just children themselves. Many already have other children to support. Many have addictions. Many simply don't THINK about birth control because they're uneducated, their mothers are absent (physically or emotionally), they haven't been taught how life works. Many come from mini-cultures of women getting pregnant in their teens, handing the kids to their mothers (who are in their 30s), and only becoming a mother figure when their children have babies of their own. It's a terrible cycle, full of ignorance and resignation, lost potential and huge amounts of government assistance.

The price of providing free birth control is minimal in comparison to the costs of a society burdened by millions (literally) of unwanted children. Children that will only continue the cycle, growing up in poverty, having children at a young age themselves, standing in every line of free handouts that the government can dream up. It's just too much of a burden for a country to bear, as is the emotional pain for women who elect to end unplanned pregnancies. I'm not saying that it should be thrown from the rooftops, as those who have the dosh should continue to take self-responsibility in preventing pregnancy. Feel free, means test it. But if a woman is looking back and forth between her child's worn out shoes and her month's packet of pills, I'll happily contribute to buy the pills for her.

Prevention is so easy, and so cheap - people just dig their heels, cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[And of course unplanned pregnancies happen to other social demographics as well, but a large number are among the culture described above, as they are the ones that would benefit from universal access to plentiful birth control and EDUCATION]

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Kenny, you sure do enjoy stirring the pot, don't you?

That bill has about as much chance of passing as I have of winning the lottery (which is quite slim since I don't have any tickets).

I am going to suggest that cosmetic surgery for women be covered under insurance since a few hundred billion won't make all that much difference in the deficit at this point. That might really help my self esteem. I hope you won't mind paying for it, Kenny.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Get your facts straight, beebrisk-MissStepCut is correct. Ms. Fluke's school, Georgetown, has a health insurance plan that does not cover birth control, as it is a Catholic institution. The compromise offered by the Obama administration would result in INSURANCE COMPANIES paying for birth control pills entirely, so that religious institutions don't have to offer it in their insurance coverage. NO tax dollars are involved. And insurance companies don't mind paying for BC, because birth control pills are a lot cheaper than prenatal care and delivering a baby.

So once again, TAX DOLLARS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. NOTHING. AT ALL. I know it's super hard to believe, but Rush Limbaugh completely made that up.

What is super hard to believe is that so many don't understand that indeed their tax dollars are being used to fund BC.

You see, the new plan forcing insurers to provide free BC for everyone (free of charge) has also to resulted in higher premiums for everyone. (Mine has just gone up 15% over last year). Eventually, as individuals can no longer afford to insure themselves (those not covered by an employer) they will be forced into the public program. As soon as employers realize it is cheaper to pay the penalties for not insuring their workers, they will drop coverage all together and all those people will be forced onto "the dole" for healthcare. Tax dollars currently cover BC under Title X rules and tax dollars will be covering it for everyone as soon as the "Affordable Health Care Act" is in full effect.

But I know it's super hard to believe that the president lied when he said if we like our insurance and our doctors, we can keep them.

Bee, your example doesn't show how our tax dollars are being used, your example shows your perceived worst case scenario of how they might be used in the case of a government sponsored health care system, which was taken off the table long ago. What's this mysterious healthcare "dole" you're talking about? What public program? I be confused...

You're right. I forgot there's a magic pot of gold that's been reserved just to cover universal health care. No tax dollars needed. The insurance fairy pays for it!

But now I'm confused because the president told me it would cost $900 billion and just this week the CBO told me it would end up being 3x that amount!

I guess the worst case scenario would be that the insurance fairy isn't real. Could that be??

Interesting, isn't it?

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Kenny, you sure do enjoy stirring the pot, don't you?

That bill has about as much chance of passing as I have of winning the lottery (which is quite slim since I don't have any tickets).

I am going to suggest that cosmetic surgery for women be covered under insurance since a few hundred billion won't make all that much difference in the deficit at this point. That might really help my self esteem. I hope you won't mind paying for it, Kenny.

Now that's a plan I can wrap my head (and new face) around!

 

[ericad]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Get your facts straight, beebrisk-MissStepCut is correct. Ms. Fluke's school, Georgetown, has a health insurance plan that does not cover birth control, as it is a Catholic institution. The compromise offered by the Obama administration would result in INSURANCE COMPANIES paying for birth control pills entirely, so that religious institutions don't have to offer it in their insurance coverage. NO tax dollars are involved. And insurance companies don't mind paying for BC, because birth control pills are a lot cheaper than prenatal care and delivering a baby.

So once again, TAX DOLLARS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. NOTHING. AT ALL. I know it's super hard to believe, but Rush Limbaugh completely made that up.

What is super hard to believe is that so many don't understand that indeed their tax dollars are being used to fund BC.

You see, the new plan forcing insurers to provide free BC for everyone (free of charge) has also to resulted in higher premiums for everyone. (Mine has just gone up 15% over last year). Eventually, as individuals can no longer afford to insure themselves (those not covered by an employer) they will be forced into the public program. As soon as employers realize it is cheaper to pay the penalties for not insuring their workers, they will drop coverage all together and all those people will be forced onto "the dole" for healthcare. Tax dollars currently cover BC under Title X rules and tax dollars will be covering it for everyone as soon as the "Affordable Health Care Act" is in full effect.

But I know it's super hard to believe that the president lied when he said if we like our insurance and our doctors, we can keep them.

Bee, your example doesn't show how our tax dollars are being used, your example shows your perceived worst case scenario of how they might be used in the case of a government sponsored health care system, which was taken off the table long ago. What's this mysterious healthcare "dole" you're talking about? What public program? I be confused...

You're right. I forgot there's a magic pot of gold that's been reserved just to cover universal health care. No tax dollars needed. The insurance fairy pays for it!

But now I'm confused because the president told me it would cost $900 billion and just this week the CBO told me it would end up being 3x that amount!

I guess the worst case scenario would be that the insurance fairy isn't real. Could that be??

What Universal health care? THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. The Affordable Care Act doesn't include a Universal or single payer plan. That was dropped a very, very long time ago. What are you talking about?!

PS - Again, I repeat, show me where in the legislation it states all of these claims you're making? Third request. I've asked you to show me where in the healthcare bill it states that the government has the authority to direct my physician regarding my treatment, and also where in the bill it states that we will have a Universal option. But you keep ignoring me - why? Perhaps because these things don't actually exist in the bill?

 

[Circe]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

What Universal health care? THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. The Affordable Care Act doesn't include a Universal or single payer plan. That was dropped a very, very long time ago. What are you talking about?!

PS - Again, I repeat, show me where in the legislation it states all of these claims you're making? Third request. I've asked you to show me where in the healthcare bill it states that the government has the authority to direct my physician regarding my treatment, and also where in the bill it states that we will have a Universal option. But you keep ignoring me - why? Perhaps because these things don't actually exist in the bill?

Seconded, actually - in the interest of the shorthand/jargon issue I mentioned a few pages ago, I'd love to know what it is specifically in the bill that's being interpreted in this way. I've read it over a few times, and I'm not seeing it. Could you please just point me to the specific phrase that raises your hackles?

Link to the full text for ease of access: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/full/

 

[kenny]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Kenny, you sure do enjoy stirring the pot, don't you?

If you call this stirring then stirring's a good thing.

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Get your facts straight, beebrisk-MissStepCut is correct. Ms. Fluke's school, Georgetown, has a health insurance plan that does not cover birth control, as it is a Catholic institution. The compromise offered by the Obama administration would result in INSURANCE COMPANIES paying for birth control pills entirely, so that religious institutions don't have to offer it in their insurance coverage. NO tax dollars are involved. And insurance companies don't mind paying for BC, because birth control pills are a lot cheaper than prenatal care and delivering a baby.

So once again, TAX DOLLARS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. NOTHING. AT ALL. I know it's super hard to believe, but Rush Limbaugh completely made that up.

What is super hard to believe is that so many don't understand that indeed their tax dollars are being used to fund BC.

You see, the new plan forcing insurers to provide free BC for everyone (free of charge) has also to resulted in higher premiums for everyone. (Mine has just gone up 15% over last year). Eventually, as individuals can no longer afford to insure themselves (those not covered by an employer) they will be forced into the public program. As soon as employers realize it is cheaper to pay the penalties for not insuring their workers, they will drop coverage all together and all those people will be forced onto "the dole" for healthcare. Tax dollars currently cover BC under Title X rules and tax dollars will be covering it for everyone as soon as the "Affordable Health Care Act" is in full effect.

But I know it's super hard to believe that the president lied when he said if we like our insurance and our doctors, we can keep them.

Bee, your example doesn't show how our tax dollars are being used, your example shows your perceived worst case scenario of how they might be used in the case of a government sponsored health care system, which was taken off the table long ago. What's this mysterious healthcare "dole" you're talking about? What public program? I be confused...

You're right. I forgot there's a magic pot of gold that's been reserved just to cover universal health care. No tax dollars needed. The insurance fairy pays for it!

But now I'm confused because the president told me it would cost $900 billion and just this week the CBO told me it would end up being 3x that amount!

I guess the worst case scenario would be that the insurance fairy isn't real. Could that be??

What Universal health care? THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. The Affordable Care Act doesn't include a Universal or single payer plan. That was dropped a very, very long time ago. What are you talking about?!

PS - Again, I repeat, show me where in the legislation it states all of these claims you're making? Third request. I've asked you to show me where in the healthcare bill it states that the government has the authority to direct my physician regarding my treatment, and also where in the bill it states that we will have a Universal option. But you keep ignoring me - why? Perhaps because these things don't actually exist in the bill?

Not obliged to respond or offer any information regarding first, second or even third request, but since you asked...

The federal government will be administering your health care. The federal government is requiring all your doctors report all the details of your medical care to said database.

Why is this? Because whoever administers your care has the ability to direct your care. Your insurance company is doing it now. Are you so naive as to believe that once the gov takes over, you'll be free to see any doctor you want, any time you want and you'll have carte blanche for any procedure your physician might have in mind for you?

Do you believe your care will improve while your doctor is being (meagerly) reimbursed by the government?

I understand that with a cost estimated between $900 billion and 1.3 Trillion of your tax dollars you'd expect more, right?

I'm not exactly independently wealthy. I'd LOVE for someone to over my medical costs. But I'm smart enough to understand that when the government tells me it's gonna "help", it really means "you're screwed".

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

and while bee's health care insurance went up 15%, i'm sure it wasn't due to BC but for many other diagnostics and prescriptions as well....not to mention to make sure that the company makes even more $.

i live in california.
we pay a lot of tax $.
we don't get as much back from the feds as we pay into the federal system.
that $ we don't get back goes to other states that "need" it.
perhaps we should quit underwriting other states and insist that "our" $ come back to this state only.
makes sense in this day and age of "i don't want to pay for anyone else and the common good does nothing for me attitude".

BC is for the common good as much as national parks, national parks, etc.
sorry but the face lift example is not in the same category.
if you don't get that face lift it isn't going to cost me 18 years of medical, food, housing, and education expenses.

you don't want to pay for BC for someone else. all i can do is shake my head in wonder that there is such an understanding fail that not to do so results in a greater cost out of your tax $.

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

and while bee's health care insurance went up 15%, i'm sure it wasn't due to BC but for many other diagnostics and prescriptions as well....not to mention to make sure that the company makes even more $.

i live in california.
we pay a lot of tax $.
we don't get as much back from the feds as we pay into the federal system.
that $ we don't get back goes to other states that "need" it.
perhaps we should quit underwriting other states and insist that "our" $ come back to this state only.
makes sense in this day and age of "i don't want to pay for anyone else and the common good does nothing for me attitude".

BC is for the common good as much as national parks, national parks, etc.
sorry but the face lift example is not in the same category.
if you don't get that face lift it isn't going to cost me 18 years of medical, food, housing, and education expenses.

you don't want to pay for BC for someone else. all i can do is shake my head in wonder that there is such an understanding fail that not to do so results in a greater cost out of your tax $.

"The greater good". Ah, there's the rub. Who decides that??

See, in my view the "greater good" would be served if everyone except those who must benefit from Title X would pay for their own damn Ortho Novom.

 

[ericad]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Bee, AGAIN, there will be no government plan under The Affordable Care Act. There will be no government administration because there is NO UNIVERSAL PLAN. Where in the bill are you getting this information?

You can repeat the lies till you're blue in the face, but they are still lies. There is no government takeover of healthcare, no universal plan, no evil database for use by death panels, no Santa Claus and no Easter Bunny.

No, you're not obligated to point to the part of the plan that supports your claims, but if you want your claims to carry a shred of credibility, you'll point us to the text of the bill. Just because you believe something and are really good at repeating yourself, doesn't make it true.

I've actually read the bill and it and understand it. Have you?

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Bee, AGAIN, there will be no government plan under The Affordable Care Act. There will be no government administration because there is NO UNIVERSAL PLAN. Where in the bill are you getting this information?

You can repeat the lies till you're blue in the face, but they are still lies. There is no government takeover of healthcare, no universal plan, no evil database for use by death panels, no Santa Claus and no Easter Bunny.

No, you're not obligated to point to the part of the plan that supports your claims, but if you want your claims to carry a shred of credibility, you'll point us to the text of the bill. Just because you believe something and are really good at repeating yourself, doesn't make it true.

I've actually read the bill and it and understand it. Have you?

Wow. Impressive considering the men and women that actually passed the bill never read it!

Since you have obviously spent an enormous amount of time getting through it, have extensive actuarial experience enough to comprehend it, and possess encyclopedic knowledge of exactly what's NOT in the bill I would assume you'd have some interest in enlightening all of us about what's IN the bill !

As you scream "LIES!" I can't help but notice that not a single "opinion" of yours is attached to a "fact"...you know, that little thing you seem to demand but are unwilling to part with yourself.

So please, feel free to educate us as to the intricacies of this bill. No problem that it's now way off topic and certainly no problem for me since my name won't be attached to it.

I have one other thing to add as an aside. As a "vendor" here on PS, it would probably behoove you to treat each and every member/poster as a potential customer. But that's just my opinion. I run my business differently.

 

[Matata]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

For anyone who is interested, full text of Act http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/fin...tient-protection-and-affordable-care-act.aspx