US Property Envy

[missy]

We recently drove through Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont. Beautiful states!!! The areas I liked the most (coastal/lakeside) were extremely expensive which surprised me. My idea of property values in these states was very naive.

All I could think about though was how far away is the market and where is the hospital? I'm always running to the store, so that's important, plus we're not getting any younger and I want the best and closest healthcare.

I adore coastal Maine. Except for the winter and the remoteness of many services I could live there. Friendliest people and just a good feeling being there. But yes, like you, my first thought is where is the hospital and where is Costco haha. There are so many places I would love to live if not for those challenges (healthcare services etc).



ETA Edited for autocorrect using incorrect spelling in place of my correct spelling lol darn you autocorrect.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

@Ionysis I think it's like buying two acres of sand 2.5 hours south of Dubai... similar infrastructure, similar price

 

[Cerulean]

We recently drove through Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont. Beautiful states!!! The areas I liked the most (coastal/lakeside) were extremely expensive which surprised me. My idea of property values in these states was very naive.

All I could think about though was how far away is the market and where is the hospital? I'm always running to the store, so that's important, plus we're not getting any younger and I want the best and closest healthcare.

Yes! My father lives in rural maine. It is actually extremely expensive. There is a local health clinic, but for his elderly needs he has to drive two hours to the hospital in Portland

There are so few children locally that they closed the elementary school

He can get basic groceries of course, but otherwise he drives again to Portland

 

[elizat]

I think that part of this conversation does overlook that some smaller towns and suburbs of metro areas are perfectly fine.

Totally depends on where it is, like anywhere in the world. But, generally speaking, if you see what looks to be a large home with a decent amount of property for under $50,000 US, it probably is not in the best location.

For myself, contrary to what most people would want, in the next 7 to 10 years, give or take, we are talking about moving to a more rural area. We live in a suburb that is adjacent to one of the major metro areas in Florida. However, we would like to live on a property that has a lot of acreage, is away from people, and is more isolated. We are now currently about 30/40 minutes away from the business center of our metro area.

I think much of this also centers on what you do for a living, if you work, and your own personal habits. We live within 1.5 hours of the big theme parks in Florida and I can't tell you the last time we went to one. Our local area has some museums, but they are really the kind of place that if you go once or twice, you've seen it. They are more for tourists or geared to kids (quite a few are for kids). We are homebodies. We don't go to concerts, sports events, nightclubs or bars, etc., so something more out of the way in the right area would suit us fine.

I know a lot of people here do not like the south, but we will stay in a southern state- too cold otherwise!

 

[Bojambles]

I think you'll find this referrs to the fact that housing around here is no longer affordable on local salaries. To counteract this there is a governmental scheme to provide houses for citizens at affordable prices. Unfortunately eligibility for this scheme is assessed on criteria, most of these are hard criteria

* married or otherwisd ineligible to a certain age (late 30s)
* houshold income below cutoff
* citizen

If you fail on any one of these criterion then you are not eligible and are forced into the private market. I'm an expat like you, so ill never be eligable -- which may be fair enough.

But many others fail for reasons which are ridiculous -- income too high (actually the cutoff is super low. When you have children here there is no way you'd be able to afford the childcare costs, pay rent and save for down-payment on the ridiculously priced apartments.).

Unmarried is another unfortunate one. The houses are officially supposed to be there to support families forming but these days marriage age here is drifting upwards, people struggle with long hours (many jobs finish after 8 pm every day) and a long commute back to their parents houses which may not be located anywhere near their work. Cars cost ~150-200 k so this comute will be via public transport and could be over an hour each way. Otherwise they have to cope with local rental which is like paying the mortgage of one of those 2 million dollar apartments to someone else every month -- we've paid this for years (more or less you need to pay this plus save 2× this amount per month for the down-payment on your own first home if you want to ever get out of this situation -- otherwise housing prices rise faster than you can save.).

To be honest I know a lot of people who seem to be caught out by this situation, one or more of these criteria means they pay permanent rent or are still living with parents. I guess culture here which is more open to 3 generations of the family living together is sort of nice, but apartments are small (almost like shoe boxes) so this has got its own problems.

and meanwhile they wonder why the birth rate is falling. apparently female emancipation is the problem, not wealth inequality

they keep harping on income inequality and no one is buying it. It's the Asian love of 2nd and 3rd homes for passive income that's the problem. Born a generation too late

 

[Cerulean]

I think that part of this conversation does overlook that some smaller towns and suburbs of metro areas are perfectly fine.

Totally depends on where it is, like anywhere in the world. But, generally speaking, if you see what looks to be a large home with a decent amount of property for under $50,000 US, it probably is not in the best location.

For myself, contrary to what most people would want, in the next 7 to 10 years, give or take, we are talking about moving to a more rural area. We live in a suburb that is adjacent to one of the major metro areas in Florida. However, we would like to live on a property that has a lot of acreage, is away from people, and is more isolated. We are now currently about 30/40 minutes away from the business center of our metro area.

I think much of this also centers on what you do for a living, if you work, and your own personal habits. We live within 1.5 hours of the big theme parks in Florida and I can't tell you the last time we went to one. Our local area has some museums, but they are really the kind of place that if you go once or twice, you've seen it. They are more for tourists or geared to kids (quite a few are for kids). We are homebodies. We don't go to concerts, sports events, nightclubs or bars, etc., so something more out of the way in the right area would suit us fine.

I know a lot of people here do not like the south, but we will stay in a southern state- too cold otherwise!

of course - i do not mean to generalize to all rural areas. i have a fondness for rural communities, but wealth is disproportionately centralized to major metropolitan areas and one cannot ignore the high poverty rates and a large percentage of rural communities where people have multiple chronic diseases. there are some rural areas that are beautiful and frequented by tourists with better infrastructure. but then...the houses aren't cheap!

 

[elizat]

of course - i do not mean to generalize to all rural areas. i have a fondness for rural communities, but wealth is disproportionately centralized to major metropolitan areas and one cannot ignore the high poverty rates and a large percentage of rural communities where people have multiple chronic diseases. there are some rural areas that are beautiful and frequented by tourists with better infrastructure. but then...the houses aren't cheap!

No, I understand! No worries.

I grew up in really rural PA. Tiny villages, one traffic light, if that, and you are lucky if you have a local diner that is in business. Maybe you have one general store, plus a small grocery store too. One school, where you went from kindergarten all the way to high school.

I wouldn't want to live in a place like that myself, if I am being honest.

 

[Lookinagain]

I think that part of this conversation does overlook that some smaller towns and suburbs of metro areas are perfectly fine

I’ve never thought of suburbs of metro areas as rural. I think of them as more like bedroom communities of the city since many of the residents work in the city. So access to education and healthcare etc is good, and can be great.
but I do know what @Cerulean is talking about. To me that would be the really rural areas far from the city where the residents stay local for work and school and healthcare.

 

[Cerulean]

I’ve never thought of suburbs of metro areas as rural. I think of them as more like bedroom communities of the city since many of the residents work in the city. So access to education and healthcare etc is good, and can be great.
but I do know what @Cerulean is talking about. To me that would be the really rural areas far from the city where the residents stay local for work and school and healthcare.

Yes exactly- which makes a surprisingly large percentage of the country

I was not thinking about suburbs or villages that are proximal to cities

 

[qubitasaurus]

and meanwhile they wonder why the birth rate is falling. apparently female emancipation is the problem, not wealth inequality

they keep harping on income inequality and no one is buying it. It's the Asian love of 2nd and 3rd homes for passive income that's the problem. Born a generation too late

Honestly I think the birthrate thing is a lost cause. Problem isn't even properties/unaffordability. It's actually the culture in which you are expected to have children and then completely delegate the raising of them to someone else.

Its almost impossible to leave your job at 5 so you could reach their child care near your house at a reasonable time before 6 pm (so they don't have to commute with you). And then doubly impossible to put down the messaging app on your phone and miss the 6/7/8 pm meetings with people in other time zone. So you can actually spend some time with them. Anything more ambitious like trying to take them them to their extracurricular activities ends in a mess where you are so late habitually that you forget when the activity is actually supposed/scheduled to start -- and have to ask the confused looking teacher who is probably wondering why you can't remember the start time of the class your toddler has been taking all year.

This is kind of good work hours. My husband has family in Shanghai and we have a lot of colleagues in Hong Kong and Shenzhen-- all of whom almost never see their children awake during the week. They mostly moved parents as well as maids in to raise their kids. It's no wonder birthrate in all these cities is absolutely abysmal. Oddly problem isn't even the cost; it's the incompatibility with the lifestyle.