Upgrading my CE diamond to a LGD

[BabsNMK]

After 11 years my ring is needing some rehab. The head has to be replaced and I was considering at some point swapping my round 2.10 CE stone for a LGD. I was at ID Jewelry yesterday for the repair and he said to do it all at once since I was considering anyway. I didn’t have enough time to really look at stones although he showed me one that looked great to me and was wayyyy better than my previous stone. Before I pull the trigger on another stone, I need to know what the best parameters are for a LGD. The stone he showed me was GIA for example, but do I need that? Is ideal cut IGI better than a good cut GIA? A decade ago when I was obsessed with this forum, GIA was king but also LGD weren’t a thing (I would’ve had one if they were).

 

[0515vision]

For LGD, GIA and IGI and GCAL will serve you well. A stone of that size should be certified. You want to know what the angles are so that you’ll have a sense of the light performance. It’s cost-prohibitive to get melee certified.

Of your precious stone was GIA, what were the angles? It will explain some of the light performance deficits.

Some general parameters are HPHT, crown angle 34-35, pavilion angle 40.6-40.9. I keep forgetting the table and depth recommendations. But you can find them in the education section.

The experts will fill you in some more. Good luck with the upgrade! How exciting for you!

 

[mayaINaU]

IDJ will be able to find you a beautiful stone, but it would be wise to become familiar with the ideal cut parameters so you can verify. I was working with IDJ to find stones for earrings, and I provided the ideal parameters I was looking for, but the options they sent me to consider did not meet the parameters. I was working with a sales associate, not Yekutiel directly. I would also recommend asking IDJ to confirm ideal light performance via ASET and Idealscope images when you narrow down your selection. @DejaWiz and @Kim N can recommend some great stones for you and you could see if IDJ could bring those in. The cheapest options will probably be on loosegrowndiamond.com. What is your budget?

My advice (applies to me as well) is not just to go with something because it looks much better than your previous stone. Look at a lot of stones, line them up to compare, and look at them in different lighting conditions, not just jewelry store lighting. You will be staring at the stone on your hand in all lighting environments, for many years to come, so you want it to be not just "better" but amazing and stunning so you will love it for as long as you have it. Have fun!

 

[DejaWiz]

Hello, BabsNMK!
Any of the major grading labs mentioned can be fine, but same rules apply with LGD as they do with EGD: assess for cut precision, material quality, and optics.
What shape(s), carat range, and budget cap are you thinking?

 

[AdaBeta27]

DejaWiz posted those parameters for RBs a while ago, maybe on Reddit. I saved a screen shot. HTPT is generally preferred over CVD, but CVD is fine if it's good rough without flaws. CVD is the cheaper and faster way to grow a lab crystal, and a lot of growers are churning out substandard rough (by Pricescope standards) to get fast money. HTPT is slower and generally better. HTPT can have blue or maybe gray tints. CVD can have brown tints that may or may not have been "post-treated" by HTPT to correct.

The old PS cheat sheet for rounds would still apply to lab grown RBs:
"depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!"

 

[DejaWiz]

DejaWiz posted those parameters for RBs a while ago, maybe on Reddit. I saved a screen shot. HPHT is generally preferred over CVD, but CVD is fine if it's good rough without flaws. CVD is the cheaper and faster way to grow a lab crystal, and a lot of growers are churning out substandard rough (by Pricescope standards) to get fast money. HPHT is slower and generally better. HPHT can have blue or maybe gray tints. CVD can have brown tints that may or may not have been "post-treated" by HPHT to correct.

The old PS cheat sheet for rounds would still apply to lab grown RBs:
"depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!"

From my perspective, overall depth can be ignored since it is the result of the crown height + girdle thickness + pavilion depth.
As long as the cut precision and optics check out just fine, then overall depth is a minor concern.

(ps - it's HPHT...High Pressure, High Temperature )

 

[Kim N]

I would not use the cut grade on the report as an indicator of the cut quality. And definitely take mayaINaU's advice to request an ASET or Ideal-Scope image once you've narrowed down to a few stones.

 

[BabsNMK]

IDJ will be able to find you a beautiful stone, but it would be wise to become familiar with the ideal cut parameters so you can verify. I was working with IDJ to find stones for earrings, and I provided the ideal parameters I was looking for, but the options they sent me to consider did not meet the parameters. I was working with a sales associate, not Yekutiel directly. I would also recommend asking IDJ to confirm ideal light performance via ASET and Idealscope images when you narrow down your selection. @DejaWiz and @Kim N can recommend some great stones for you and you could see if IDJ could bring those in. The cheapest options will probably be on loosegrowndiamond.com. What is your budget?

My advice (applies to me as well) is not just to go with something because it looks much better than your previous stone. Look at a lot of stones, line them up to compare, and look at them in different lighting conditions, not just jewelry store lighting. You will be staring at the stone on your hand in all lighting environments, for many years to come, so you want it to be not just "better" but amazing and stunning so you will love it for as long as you have it. Have fun!

I don’t have a budget because I wasn’t planning on replacing this stone now. So negative budget is the right answer. I’m waiting on the certificate of the stone he showed me yesterday because it was a very good deal. But I would say probably less than 2k.

And yes my gut is saying to go back and compare a bunch of different options but since this wasn’t anything in the budget for right now, I’m also ok with something that’s not perfect but better than before…if that makes sense. Because before was pretty subpar.

 

[BabsNMK]

Hello, BabsNMK!
Any of the major grading labs mentioned can be fine, but same rules apply with LGD as they do with EGD: assess for cut precision, material quality, and optics.
What shape(s), carat range, and budget cap are you thinking?

Round, similar to before which was 2.10 (bigger if it somehow could happen) and I think budget would have to be under 2k but even that feels uncomfortable to me because I wasn’t expecting to do this right now.

 

[BabsNMK]

DejaWiz posted those parameters for RBs a while ago, maybe on Reddit. I saved a screen shot. HTPT is generally preferred over CVD, but CVD is fine if it's good rough without flaws. CVD is the cheaper and faster way to grow a lab crystal, and a lot of growers are churning out substandard rough (by Pricescope standards) to get fast money. HTPT is slower and generally better. HTPT can have blue or maybe gray tints. CVD can have brown tints that may or may not have been "post-treated" by HTPT to correct.

The old PS cheat sheet for rounds would still apply to lab grown RBs:
"depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!"

Super helpful thank you!

 

[BabsNMK]

From my perspective, overall depth can be ignored since it is the result of the crown height + girdle thickness + pavilion depth.
As long as the cut precision and optics check out just fine, then overall depth is a minor concern.

(ps - it's HPHT...High Pressure, High Temperature )

Thanks! I was about to start googling all the acronyms. I haven’t been on this site in ages so I’m not up with the terms anymore.

 

[Kim N]

Round, similar to before which was 2.10 (bigger if it somehow could happen) and I think budget would have to be under 2k but even that feels uncomfortable to me because I wasn’t expecting to do this right now.

There's a 2.4 G for under $1300 and a 2.8 E for under $1800.

 

[BabsNMK]

There's a 2.4 G for under $1300 and a 2.8 E for under $1800.

1300 seems ok to me. I’m not very color sensitive considering my previous one probably was a J. Could you send that here?

Just after putting in a bunch of parameters, I found this as an example (GIA 1479251974). What makes this good/bad? I want to figure out how I know what to look for. This seems like the right measurements but just in case I’m missing something.

 

[BabsNMK]

There's a 2.4 G for under $1300 and a 2.8 E for under $1800.

Nevermind @Kim N I think I found it. Thanks!

 

[Kim N]

1300 seems ok to me. I’m not very color sensitive considering my previous one probably was a J. Could you send that here?

Just after putting in a bunch of parameters, I found this as an example (GIA 1479251974). What makes this good/bad? I want to figure out how I know what to look for. This seems like the right measurements but just in case I’m missing something.

The GIA you posted has excellent proportions, but the cut precision isn't as nice as we usually recommend, and the stone has blue nuance.

 

[Kim N]

Nevermind @Kim N I think I found it. Thanks!

Are you still around? I can post the one I found in case we're talking about two different stones.

 

[BabsNMK]

Are you still around? I can post the one I found in case we're talking about two different stones.

Yeah I’m here! And ok that makes sense about the GIA one. Stuff I would never think to look for.

 

[Kim N]

Yeah I’m here! And ok that makes sense about the GIA one. Stuff I would never think to look for.

Here it is!

Inventory

Shop your perfect lab grown diamond from thousands of ethically sourced certified lab created diamonds inventory.

www.loosegrowndiamond.com

 

[DejaWiz]

Here it is!

Inventory

Shop your perfect lab grown diamond from thousands of ethically sourced certified lab created diamonds inventory.

www.loosegrowndiamond.com

Great find, Kim N!

$1219 at Brilliance using their GET15 code, if still active:

https://www.brilliance.com/lab-grown-diamonds/round/2-45-carat-g-color-super-ideal-make-vvs2-clarity-igi-certified-SKU-LG22910376

 

[BabsNMK]

Here it is!

Inventory

Shop your perfect lab grown diamond from thousands of ethically sourced certified lab created diamonds inventory.

www.loosegrowndiamond.com

That’s beautiful. Even on a website. Not the same as the one I found so thanks for that. I’m going to call ID tomorrow and tell them more specifically what I want. I think this shows me I can stay within a similar price point as what he was giving me and get a really amazing stone. I’ll probably be back to ask opinions on what I find.

 

[DejaWiz]

BabsNMK as an example of what your budget can yield you, here's a 3 carat for under $1800 that's clean HPHT, colorless range, higher clarity grade.
Might not be "super uber PriceScope perfect", but likely a world of an upgrade to optics for you.
Use this at a litmus so that you don't end up overpaying for a 2.1-2.2 carat pulled from the vast virtual inventory network.

360 video:

Media Links

 

[BabsNMK]

Thank you! I think what my fear was (and likely what happened) was he showed me one he had on hand which was vastly nicer than what I owned…and if I wasn’t such a researcher, I likely would’ve purchased. You and Kim have shown me what roughly the same price could get me and I think it’s vastly superior. He was giving me a deal combined with a new head for my ring and I still don’t have the stats from the diamond yesterday, but I think I can afford a really great stone and the repair even if it’s not as good of a “deal”. I’d rather buy a better stone since I’ve had a bad one for so long (a bad one that I still love for what it represents). I trust him, but also I don’t think he realized that if I’m going to replace the stone, I want to have no room for error.

 

[BabsNMK]

Here’s the stone I saw the other day. Thoughts? @Kim N @DejaWiz

GIA: 5846141815

 

[DejaWiz]

Here’s the stone I saw the other day. Thoughts? @Kim N @DejaWiz

GIA: 5846141815

Can you please verify the report number?

 

[BabsNMK]

@DejaWiz you are right I swapped two numbers.

5486141815

 

[Kim N]

Here’s the stone I saw the other day. Thoughts? @Kim N @DejaWiz

GIA: 5846141815

I think the tilt in the video is skewing things a little, but I like it a lot!

 

[BabsNMK]

I think the tilt in the video is skewing things a little, but I like it a lot!

@Kim N where did you find the video? On paper it looks pretty good to me too. And it’s a really great deal. I’m going back Wednesday so they can show me some other options with similar specs to the $1300 one you pointed out to me the other day. But this one is a little smaller but really nice looking. I wish I could’ve spent more time looking at it.

 

[DejaWiz]

I think the tilt in the video is skewing things a little, but I like it a lot!

Agreed!
It's appears to be either HPHT or quite decent CVD material.

Loupe360

loupe360.com

 

[BabsNMK]

Thank you both so much! I now feel really good about going back there and much more educated.

 

[AdaBeta27]

...

(ps - it's HPHT...High Pressure, High Temperature )

My phone corrects text to whatever it thinks it should be, despite what I've typed, and I don't always catch that it's posted the wrong word(s)!