Uncertified "Ideal cut" diamond?

[driveblind]

While I was looking at diamonds at a local store, the saleslady was showing me an uncertified diamond that was "ideal cut." It did look very nice (she guessed it was about a G color, and I didn''t immediately notice any inclusions with a loupe). My question is how something is determined to be an ideal cut without some certificate or measurements to back it up. Is it just their way of saying that this stone looks really good? It was priced 20-30% less than other stones of theirs that looked to be similar, so the cost is appealing. However, I''m (probably rightly) nervous about the lack of any certification on it. How much should I be concerned with this? So far, the people at this store (local store with 4 locations) have been quite helpful and they have a good reputation, and she''s been very upfront with me on everything else, so I don''t think she''s trying to pull something over on me.

 

[WinkHPD]

When you have enough experience you can normally estimate table size within a percent or two and often depth by the size of the table shadow in the pavilion. While great estimators it is far from perfect.

A very skilled grader can actually measure the table the way it used to be done in "the old days" but with the accuracy of today''s non contact measuring devices I think I would rather rely on actual measurements done accurately than someone''s eyeball estimation, even if they are right.

If you like the stone tell the store that you will purchase it, with the caveat that it come back from GIA or AGS with all of the grades as they state them, and that if they do you will pay the cost of the cert, and if they don''t you are free to walk away and pay them nothing or keep the stone if you choos. (You can not do both, but if it is only off by one grade, you may opt to keep it if the price is as good as you say.)

Just my suggestion.

Wink

 

[driveblind]

That''s kinda what I thought. Buying it with the condition that it gets certified close to what they are telling me (with me paying for the cert) crossed my mind. However, I want to give my girlfriend the ring in less than two weeks, so that sort of route probably isn''t an option. Thanks for the tips, though! She''s already checking with their other stores to show me some more certified stones early this week since she has a pretty good idea of what I want and how much I want to pay. I''ve shown her a quote I have from Whiteflash for an AGS triple-zero, so she''s going to do whatever she can to match that as close as she can.

 

[solange]

If there is a good appraiser in your area, you could have him or her inspect the stone and do a Sarin or OGI and determine the grade and color and determione whether it is Ideal cut. This would take less time and be much less costly than paying for a GIA cert. If you decide to buy the stone after having it appraised, you can always send it to the GIA at a later date. A GIA or AGS certified stone is usually more expensive. There may be some reason why they did not have this stone certified if most of their others are, particularly if it is around a G color and Ideal cut.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 3/5/2006 4:38:43 PM
Author: solange
If there is a good appraiser in your area, you could have him or her inspect the stone and do a Sarin or OGI and determine the grade and color and determione whether it is Ideal cut. This would take less time and be much less costly than paying for a GIA cert. If you decide to buy the stone after having it appraised, you can always send it to the GIA at a later date. A GIA or AGS certified stone is usually more expensive. There may be some reason why they did not have this stone certified if most of their others are, particularly if it is around a G color and Ideal cut.

Ditto this. I would have no problem buying a non-certed stone provided it is what it is.

ETA - certing is a market driven commodity. If people request certed stones then you carry certed stones. Perhaps this stone came in with a parcel & just hasn't been sent off.

 

[WinkHPD]

Or it may have been taken in trade. Hard to say. 95% of the diamonds that dealers show me anymore have certs, but that is because the dealers I deal with all know that is what I want. I got tired of spending postage sending back over graded diamonds to dealers who would not believe I actually know the difference between a VS1 and an SI1. If you think (Insert name of non AGS or GIA certificate palace here) is loose, you should see some of the vendors who specialize in selling to non gemologist jewelers...

Wink

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 3/5/2006 3:47:42 PM
Author:driveblind
It did look very nice (she guessed it was about a G color, and I didn't immediately notice any inclusions with a loupe).

Guessed?

Is this a salesperson guessing, or a gemologist? What kind of lighting environment was she guessing in? Did she compare it against diamond master comparison stones while she was guessing? Did she guess if there was any fluorescence modifying the body color, or check it under ultraviolet light?

My question is how something is determined to be an ideal cut without some certificate or measurements to back it up. Is it just their way of saying that this stone looks really good?

Ideal cut parameters are very specific, with narrow ranges. A "very good" polish as opposed to "ideal" is enough to knock a stone out of the "ideal make" category. You don't see that kind of thing when you're "guessing" with a 10x loupe.

It was priced 20-30% less than other stones of theirs that looked to be similar, so the cost is appealing.

Ideal cut stones are usually priced 20-30% more than other stones, not 20-30% less.

However, I'm (probably rightly) nervous about the lack of any certification on it.

And rightly so.

How much should I be concerned with this? So far, the people at this store (local store with 4 locations) have been quite helpful and they have a good reputation, and she's been very upfront with me on everything else, so I don't think she's trying to pull something over on me.

The stone is probably worth what they're asking for it. Just don't go by what they tell you as far as grading is concerned. Have it checked out by a properly trained professional with the proper equipment in the proper lighting environment.