Unanswered question

[rstillin]

I asked a question a few days back and never really got an answer from anyone. Do all the wonderful tools that are available to us like ideal scope images, brilliance scope images, HCA allow us to make a good diamond purchase without ever seeing the stone? Would a broker be willing to peruse all the AGS reports, Sarin data, Ideal Scope images, and Brilliance Scope data to purchase stones that they haven't even seen yet? (and be comfortable with the purchase price of the stone before receiving it).

These seem like great tools to assess diamonds with, and can easily pick out some of the "dogs", but I'm concerned that If I base my decision solely on these tools, I may not get a beautiful stone.

Are there ugly stones with HCA scores below 2?
Are there beautiful stones with ideal scope images displaying lots of light pink and white?

I guess another way of putting the question is how well does this objective analysis coincide with subjective analysis?

If I put 200 stones in front of a grader he/she could easily grade the stones based on HCA by inputting the proper data into the analyzer. The rank would be easily repeatable among other graders using the same tools. Now take that ranking and rank the stones by visual appeal (of course you can't have too many variables so all the stones are the same clarity, color, and approximate weight). What are the odds the rank will be the same visually as it is by the objective analysis? (I know there are studies being conducted on this).

So If I purchase a diamond on the "objective" criteria how often will I pick the same stone I would pick just by visual grading? Is there a quantifiable correlation between better HCA scores and visual beauty? Are the premiums being paid for "ideal" cuts just an intrinsic quality due to these tools?

Beside answers to the questions (and ramblings) above, I'm looking for opinion and guidance.
I cannot see the difference between IF, VVS1, and VS2 with my naked eye (how I'll be viewing the diamond forever after purchase), therefore I have a very low weight on this criterion with respect to visual performance (give me an eye clean SI).

I can see a slight difference in D-F color and G-I color stones (depending on the observation setting). I therefore have a slightly higher weight on this criterion. (I'll take F-G color).

I have no idea about cut though. I can tell you what an "ideal" cut is with respect to angles and dimensions, but I cannot grade cut with my naked eye. Worse yet, I cannot correlate the quality of the cut to what is visually appealing in the B&M stores because the Certs often do not tell the info I need to make an assessment of cut.

Only online I can make an assessment of cut quality (Sarin, Helium, etc) but I cannot see these diamonds and figure out what my eye likes. My gut feeling is that paying for premium "ideals" is not the best bang for the buck. I bet there are AGS 1-2 cuts that rival the beauty of AGS 0 cuts. Can this be true?

So if you have not figured out by now I'm trying to develop the areas of diminishing returns when it comes to cut. I've developed mine for color and clarity, how these rank with others I’m not sure, but would be interested in hearing your opinions.

Thanks for your responses (and putting up with so many pestering questions if you do

Ross

 

[belle]

Date: 1/10/2006 10:27:01 AM
Author:rstillin

I asked a question a few days back and never really got an answer from anyone. Do all the wonderful tools that are available to us like ideal scope images, brillance scope images, HCA allow us to make a good diamond purchase without ever seeing the stone?

i believe finding a stone with proven proportions number-wise and then using the idealscope and hca for confirmation, you can find a very nice stone without every seeing it. (i have done it!)

Date: 1/10/2006 10:27:01 AM
Author:rstillin

These seem like great tools to assess diamonds with, and can easily pick out some of the 'dogs', but I'm concerned that If I base my decision solely on these tools, I may not get a beautiful stone.

just pull the trigger...your doubts will be allieiviated.

Date: 1/10/2006 10:27:01 AM
Author:rstillin

Are there ugly stones with HCA scores below 2?

there are different 'looks' that come with the wide range of proportion combinations in scores under 2. beauty is in the eye of the purchaser and to call anything 'ugly' would be presumptious.

Date: 1/10/2006 10:27:01 AM
Author:rstillin

Are there beautiful stones with ideal scope images displaying lots of light pink and white?

it depends on the combination..amongst other things. you have to keep in mind too that not all images are taken under the same conditions. while one image of a stone may be blood red, the same stone under different conditions may be more pink. you can't judge solely on color.

Date: 1/10/2006 10:27:01 AM
Author:rstillin

I guess another way of putting the question is how well does this objective analysis coincide with subjective analysis?

If I put 200 stones in front of a grader he/she could easily grade the stones based on HCA by inputing the proper data into the analyzer. The rank would be easily repetable among other graders using the same tools. Now take that ranking and rank the stones by visual appeal (of course you can't have too many variables so all the stones are the same clarity, color, and approximate weight). What are the odds the rank will be the same visually as it is by the objective analysis? (I know there are studies being conducted on this).

there are studies being conducted on this and i would love to see the results. i think that the odds of the stones ranking the same are near impossible. there are just too many subjective variables. unless perhaps you had only a very small number of well cut stones that would rank at the top that were easily separated from the rest.

Date: 1/10/2006 10:27:01 AM
Author:rstillin

Is there a quantifiable correlation between better HCA scores and visual beauty?

no, because there is no quantifiable correlation to visual beauty.

Date: 1/10/2006 10:27:01 AM
Author:rstillin

Are the premiums being paided for 'ideal' cuts just an intrinsic quality due to these tools?

no. this is evidenced by premiums on 'ideal' cut stones that have never been evaluated by these tools.

Date: 1/10/2006 10:27:01 AM
Author:rstillin

I have no idea about cut though. I can tell you what an 'ideal' cut is with respect to angles and dimensions, but I cannot grade cut with my naked eye. Worse yet, I cannot correlate the quality of the cut to what is visually appealing in the B&M stores because the Certs often do not tell the info I need to make an assessment of cut.

there are many variations of 'ideal' and it is nearly impossible without any other cut data to correlate what you are seeing in b&m stores as opposed to the cut quality online. i would say that until you can make these direct correlations, you won't be able to determine what your eye likes among unseen ideals.

do you have a hof or similar dealer in your area? all of their stones are graded by ags and have the cut information on the grading report. seeing them and comparing them with other stones of 'ideal' cut is a good way to guage your preferences.

best of luck to you!