Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be racist

[AGBF]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

...and what is going on in Maine? Has the governor been hospitalized yet? Maybe MariaD can tell us the inside story! My best friend lives there, too.

You can start here...http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/maine-governor-s-racist-rants-spark-outrage-752312899735

AGBF

Saying this governor is suffering from some form of mental illness or psychotic break is an insult to those who have actually endured psychosis.

No, it is not. I am aware that the issue of professionals diagnosing people whom they have not examined is currently a matter of heated discussion, but I don't choose to remain silent and I stand by my diagnosis. Not all people are psychotic in a pretty way.

Can't someone simply be a roaring a**hole?

Definitely.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

This is from "The Portland Press Herald". As you can see, there is a lot of emphasis on calling for Governor LePage to seek help.

MAINE DEMOCRATIC LEADERS' LETTER TO REPUBLICANS
"Dear friends and constituents,

I share your deep concerns regarding the governor’s behavior. What I do not know is whether it is due to substance abuse, mental illness or just ignorance. I certainly hope that his family and small circle of close staff are considering how best to address the issue. Things definitely appear to be out of control.

Leadership is considering whether we need a special session of the legislature. Some sort of censure would seem appropriate and I would welcome the ability to go on the record with a vote.

It’s very sad that we seem to have sunk to a new low in Maine’s political environment. Up until this point, I have refrained from publicly criticizing any of the governor’s behavior both out of respect for the office and a desire to preserve a working relationship with him and his staff, but this latest and the unwelcome attention it has brought to our state is a bridge too far for me. If I felt the governor and I were friends, I would give him a call or sit down with him, but we do not have that sort of relationship. He has family, he has friends and he has staff, I ask them to intervene as well as they can. I believe in most of the governor’s policies and I always believed his heart was in the right place, but I can no longer remain silent about his behavior and what it is costing all of us. I aim to serve with dignity and civility and I believe the people of Maine deserve those qualities in all of their elected officials."

Excerpts from article:

"Democratic legislative leaders sent a letter Saturday evening to Republican legislative leaders asking them to condemn LePage’s crude and threatening comments to and about a state representative, and urging that they get him professional help or encourage him to step down.

House Speaker Mark Eves and Senate Minority Leader Justin Alfond were among five Democratic leaders who signed the letter dated Saturday calling on Republican leaders to condemn LePage’s actions and comments toward Rep. Drew Gattine, D-Westbrook. Last week, LePage left Gattine an obscenity-laced voice mail message and made an apparent threat of violence against Gattine for allegedly referring to him as a racist.

Gattine has denied calling the governor a racist, and although LePage apologized to Maine residents for his comments, he has not apologized to Gattine.

'Such behavior is inappropriate for a governor and he appears to be unfit to hold office at this time. His actions have become increasingly erratic over the last several years, but he has now crossed a line and we must act,' Democrat leaders said in the letter.

'As leaders, we cannot stand by and allow the governor to operate in such a reckless and irresponsible manner,' they wrote. 'After all, as the chief executive of our state, he needs to be able to make critical and responsible decisions every day, and he has clearly demonstrated by his latest behavior that he is not capable of sound judgment at this time.'

Assistant House Majority Leader Sara Gideon, D-Freeport, also signed the letter and previously had called on LePage to resign.

'It’s clear from the governor’s threats that he is not mentally or emotionally fit to hold this office,' Gideon said in a statement Friday. 'I am calling on the governor to resign, acknowledge the real problems with his behavior and take appropriate steps to get help.'

Jim Cyr, spokesman for Senate President Mike Thibodeau, R-Winterport, texted a reply Sunday evening in response to a query from the Portland Press Herald about the Democrats’ call for intervention.

Thibodeau 'won’t have anything to say until Tuesday when he’ll likely have a news conference,' Cyr texted.

Republican State Sen. Amy Volk of Scarborough, who is facing re-election in November, told her constituents in a Facebook post Sunday that she shares their “deep concerns” about LePage’s recent behavior and said it may be appropriate for the Legislature to censure him.

Volk said she had received numerous emails and phone calls from people who told her they were disturbed by the governor’s behavior.

'What I do not know is whether it is due to substance abuse, mental illness or just ignorance,' Volk wrote on Facebook, referring to his behavior. “I certainly hope that his family and small circle of close staff are considering how best to address the issue. Things definitely appear to be out of control.”

 

[smitcompton]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Hi,

The world has had endless strongmen and dictators, many who resemble Trumps rise more than Hitler in Germany. Why not use Noriega in Panama, Castro in Cuba, or any name that comes to mind. When you can only use Hitler it shows your a lack of world history. There are terrible people all over that have power that is ill used. So far we just have words, that the American Public seems to understand would lead to possible awful consequences.

Try to choose another strongman. Expand your horizons.

Annette

 

[chrono]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

I think Castro passed anti-discrimination laws in Cuba and I'm not sure whether Noriega expressed any discriminatory action or words against a particular race or religion.

 

[kenny]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Hi,

The world has had endless strongmen and dictators, many who resemble Trumps rise more than Hitler in Germany. Why not use Noriega in Panama, Castro in Cuba, or any name that comes to mind. When you can only use Hitler it shows your a lack of world history. There are terrible people all over that have power that is ill used. So far we just have words, that the American Public seems to understand would lead to possible awful consequences.

Try to choose another strongman. Expand your horizons.

Annette

Sorry I'm so stupid.

I'll go sit in the corner till I learn my lesson.

 

[smitcompton]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Hi Chrono,

I Think Noriego pronounced his hate against Americans. One of my points is that Hitler and many of these others did not just arrive on the scene without prior political experience. I cannot see the connection between Hitlers Germany and Trumps America. His rise to power is not the same.

How about China and Japans treatment of one another. I understand to this day only pure Japanese can be citizens. I am not trying to replicate a Trump situation all over the world, but only to, say Hitler is not a good example. Populism abounds at times in history. Look at Sarkozy in France today. He plans to change the constitution to curb some muslim activities.

Castro was still a dictator who wouldn't allow people out of them country.

Annette

 

[AGBF]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Hi,

The world has had endless strongmen and dictators, many who resemble Trumps rise more than Hitler in Germany. Why not use Noriega in Panama, Castro in Cuba, or any name that comes to mind. When you can only use Hitler it shows your a lack of world history. There are terrible people all over that have power that is ill used. So far we just have words, that the American Public seems to understand would lead to possible awful consequences.

Try to choose another strongman. Expand your horizons.

Annette

Being a "strong man" or authoritarian is not the same as being a fascist. I don't have the energy to get into it now, but ksinger wrote about it at some length (and posted links about it) elsewhere. Fidel Castro was a revolutionary war hero who overthrew someone who had been oppressing the poor in his country and was very much hated. He was the George Washington of Cuba.

I do not agree with everything Fidel Castro did, or everything Che Guevara did (and I even had the sense to disagree with him when I was a teenager and had a crush on him) during the Cuban Revolutionary War, but to compare him with Hitler is ludicrous.

AGBF

 

[kenny]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

This distinguished governor left a voice message that you should hear.
Scroll down and press the play button.

Oh, and in the message LePage said he wants the message publicized.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-lepage-voicemail_us_57c046d6e4b04193420eb84d

 

[kenny]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

BTW ...
Snip:
"The bombastic Republican governor is known for his loose style, which sometimes draws criticism. He is a strong supporter of Donald Trump, and Trump's campaign recently hired his daughter to work on the race in Maine."

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/26/politics/paul-lepage-explicit-voicemail-duel-lawmaker/

 

[shaggy1]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Castro was still a dictator who wouldn't allow people out of them country.

That makes him the opposite of Trump, who has only said he wants to keep people out.

I DO know quite a few other fascists exist. Some of my family members lived under Mussolini. A friend escaped from Ceaușescu's Romania in the late 1960s. I recall the news reports of the atrocities of Pol Pot all too vividly. Kindly do not assume we all have limited horizons.

I still say the Hitler comparison is most apt, not only in the concepts Trump expresses but in the rhetorical style he uses.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Castro was still a dictator who wouldn't allow people out of them country.

That makes him the opposite of Trump, who has only said he wants to keep people out.

I DO know quite a few other fascists exist. Some of my family members lived under Mussolini. A friend escaped from Ceaușescu's Romania in the late 1960s. I recall the news reports of the atrocities of Pol Pot all too vividly. Kindly do not assume we all have limited horizons.

I still say the Hitler comparison is most apt, not only in the concepts Trump expresses but in the rhetorical style he uses.

Yes, this is a case where Godwin's Law really just does not apply.

Shaggy, you say your relatives lived under Mussolini, so I'm going on the assumption that you've probably read the piece below, already. On the off chance that you have not, however, I will link it here, because I think you will find it fascinating, especially since it is by Umberto Eco.

Warning, it's pretty long, so in a pinch you can skip a bit, to the 14 points.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

 

[shaggy1]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Shaggy, you say your relatives lived under Mussolini, so I'm going on the assumption that you've probably read the piece below, already. On the off chance that you have not, however, I will link it here, because I think you will find it fascinating, especially since it is by Umberto Eco.

Warning, it's pretty long, so in a pinch you can skip a bit, to the 14 points.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

Thank you for posting the link. I hadn't read that piece in quite a few years. I just reread it. Still a really great article and more appropriate now than ever.

I particularly like his point that fascism arises gradually and in subtle ways. Even Hitler didn’t begin his campaign with "let's kill the Jews, Catholics, and homos." I do believe fascism follows hard upon the heels of statements like 'keep out the Muslims.'

 

[AGBF]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Reading about fascism in this thread has made me remember some things about my husband's family that I haven't thought about in some time. I may have posted about some of these things in the past and if you read them before, please forgive the repetition.

ksinger posted that there are, supposedly, only 100,000 remaining Jewish survivors of the Nazi camps or Jews or lived in hiding. Before I reread the paragraph I read it as being "Jewish survivors of the camps". My husband's widowed sister is Israel lives with (she never married) a man who survived the Nazi concentration camps. He was a teenager when he was imprisoned in one. He was the subject of "medical experiments" including being dunked in cold water. He was from Hungary originally. Right after World War II he went to Israel and was homeless. He slept under a bridge. He is over 90 now and worked very hard all his life doing every imaginable job. So I thought first of him because he was an actual extermination camp survivor.

But then I realized that the children who were in hiding were mentioned, too. And I realized that the people who were once young children in hiding are now very old, which means that their number is dwindling, too. Until ksinger mentioned them, it hadn't occurred to me. My husband's sister was one of the children who was in hiding. (She is a mere 80 years old.) Born 16 years before my husband in 1935, she was only 5 years old when the German Army invaded northern France. My husband's parents had fled Genoa,Italy, where she was born and raised, to leave Europe, but they were a bit too late and missed the last ship out of Le Havre before the invasion of France. The family would have been able to enter The United States because my husband's mother had family in the United States by now. They were Sephardic Jews and, therefore, Spanish speaking. So when they left Europe they had gone first to gone to Cuba and then on to California. His mother's mother and at least one sister lived in California.

But they could not leave France even if the United States would have accepted them (and the United States was not accepting many European Jews). So they said that their passports (which in Europe show one's religion) had been burned and they attempted to pass as Italians, but not Jewish Italians. My husband claims that it was a point of pride to his mother that they did not go to the local Catholic church. But my sister-in-law, who went to school in France, had to be very careful not to let on in any way that they were Jewish. My husband believes that at least some of the people in the village cooperated with them, too, because my father-in-law needed an operation on his kidneys while they were in France. The surgeon would have seen that he was circumcised. Only Jews were circumcised in Europe in the 1940's, but no one involved in his surgery gave him away to the Nazis.

Somewhere I have a photo of my sister-in-law and her French friend of the same age (around five years old), each in the arms of a German soldier in full regalia complete with lightning bolts. The soldiers posed with the girls, smiling happily. I also have some photos of my father-in-law with some black soldiers. I do not know whether the photos were taken in France or later in Italy and what nationality the soldiers were. But reading about the soldier in Umberto Eco's story made me wonder if they might have been Americans in France. I don't think so. I think i would have recognized the uniforms the first time i saw the photo if they were Americans. But the next time the photo surfaces, I will study it.

AGBF

 

[Tekate]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Listen. Trump has not made it okay. And as much as I detest the man, this can't be laid at his feet. Yes, he did sh*t in the pool first. Does that mean that it is his fault that others start to do it too. NO. they are responsible for not recognizing that sh*tting in the pool is not okay and for their own actions.

There is something called common decency. Divorce morality from any religious doctrine.

This guy's actions and words are his and his alone. He is the one choosing to express these views. He is one who is sh*tting in the pool, regardless of who did it before.

The "he made me do it" excuse doesn't hold any water for me past 15 years of age. Not unless someone put a gun to your head. And Trump is not a gun to the head of these racists. Their hate and spite has existed and been nurtured by them, and them alone, for years.

Frankly, it is enlightening. It is good to see this exposed instead of hidden. Now we know who our enemies are. And they can't work behind the scenes against us.

I think this isn't quite true (bolded part) Le Page is in his second term and while he was an idiot the first four years, since we have had Trump around he's been louder, meaner and more racist. Even the republicans in Maine are apalled.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Listen.

Trump has not made it okay. And as much as I detest the man, this can't be laid at his feet. Yes, he did sh*t in the pool first. Does that mean that it is his fault that others start to do it too. NO. they are responsible for not recognizing that sh*tting in the pool is not okay and for their own actions.

There is something called common decency. Divorce morality from any religious doctrine.

This guy's actions and words are his and his alone. He is the one choosing to express these views. He is one who is sh*tting in the pool, regardless of who did it before.

The "he made me do it" excuse doesn't hold any water for me past 15 years of age. Not unless someone put a gun to your head. And Trump is not a gun to the head of these racists. Their hate and spite has existed and been nurtured by them, and them alone, for years.

Frankly, it is enlightening. It is good to see this exposed instead of hidden. Now we know who our enemies are. And they can't work behind the scenes against us.

I think this isn't quite true (bolded part) Le Page is in his second term and while he was an idiot the first four years, since we have had Trump around he's been louder, meaner and more racist. Even the republicans in Maine are apalled.

Tekate-

You have now isolated the time when the governor's behavior changed, but not necessarily the reason that the governor's behavior changed. The question remains whether the change in Mr. LePage's behavior is due to a change in the political climate (e.g. a loosening of what is acceptable behavior due to Donald Trump's example) or whether it is due to a breakdown in his mental health that happened concurrently with but independently from with Mr. Trump's candidacy (my belief).

AGBF

 

[ksinger]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Listen.

Trump has not made it okay. And as much as I detest the man, this can't be laid at his feet. Yes, he did sh*t in the pool first. Does that mean that it is his fault that others start to do it too. NO. they are responsible for not recognizing that sh*tting in the pool is not okay and for their own actions.

There is something called common decency. Divorce morality from any religious doctrine.

This guy's actions and words are his and his alone. He is the one choosing to express these views. He is one who is sh*tting in the pool, regardless of who did it before.

The "he made me do it" excuse doesn't hold any water for me past 15 years of age. Not unless someone put a gun to your head. And Trump is not a gun to the head of these racists. Their hate and spite has existed and been nurtured by them, and them alone, for years.

Frankly, it is enlightening. It is good to see this exposed instead of hidden. Now we know who our enemies are. And they can't work behind the scenes against us.

I think this isn't quite true (bolded part) Le Page is in his second term and while he was an idiot the first four years, since we have had Trump around he's been louder, meaner and more racist. Even the republicans in Maine are apalled.

Tekate-

You have now isolated the time when the governor's behavior changed, but not necessarily the reason that the governor's behavior changed. The question remains whether the change in Mr. LePage's behavior is due to a change in the political climate (e.g. a loosening of what is acceptable behavior due to Donald Trump's example) or whether it is due to a breakdown in his mental health that happened concurrently with but independently from with Mr. Trump's candidacy (my belief).

AGBF

My question is why becoming louder, meaner and more racist MUST be a mental breakdown or mental illness rather than a choice? Sounds like he was already mostly a jackass, I'm not sure what we've gained at this point by casting this as some sort of mental illness. Is there a reason for viewing it through that lens, that I'm simply not getting?

 

[AGBF]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

My question is why becoming louder, meaner and more racist MUST be a mental breakdown or mental illness rather than a choice?

I know this is your question. You also asked it earlier. It may have been in this thread or in another thread. I remember saying that I agreed with you that one could be a racist jackass without being mentally ill. Therefore, I believe that one's becoming louder, meaner, and more racist need not be symptoms of a mental breakdown. I do not, for example, think that the South was sprinkled with mobs of people having mental breakdowns when lynch mobs and Ku Klux Klan rallies were prevalent there. In the case of Governor LePage, I just happen to think that he is mentally ill. Having watched him on camera and heard him on audiotape, I think he is ill. Of course I could be wrong. But clinicians who examine people in the flesh are often wrong, too.

(edited for clarity)

 

[kenny]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

My question is why becoming louder, meaner and more racist MUST be a mental breakdown or mental illness rather than a choice? Sounds like he was already mostly a jackass, I'm not sure what we've gained at this point by casting this as some sort of mental illness. Is there a reason for viewing it through that lens, that I'm simply not getting?

+1

IMO people use things like 'mental illness' and 'evil', a cop out.
"Oh, he's just evil!"

It is a way of faux-explaining things, an attempt to fit the mind-boggling into the mind so we feel more comfortable.
Most people find the unexplainable to be disturbing, unsettling, terrifying even.

I'd rather just hold people accountable for their actions, and accept there is no answer or explanation for some things.
I'm okay with not knowing.

 

[House Cat]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Deb,

Can you please provide more clarification as to why you feel this governor is mentally ill? I'm not seeing it.

Thanks...

 

[AGBF]

Re: Trump has made it okay for even a US governor to be raci

Deb,

Can you please provide more clarification as to why you feel this governor is mentally ill? I'm not seeing it.

Thanks...

House Cat-

It's been a long time since I returned to this thread, but not by intention. In order to respond properly I went back a few weeks ago and watched the tape of Governor LePage to see what it was about him that struck me as off. I took some notes and and then made some more notes-just reflections on the ego and mental illness-afterwards. Since then I have lost the notes. What I recollect is that I felt Governor Lepage had inappropriate affect, for instance his mixing his threats with his courteous wording for the good-bye in his telephone message, as well as (of course) seriously impaired judgement (which is an ego function). This man was not George Wallace in Alabama in the 1960's taking a popular stand, but a governor in New England in 2016. Racism is actually not socially acceptable in Maine. It is getting him thrown out of office. As a clinician I was trained never to forget a client's first impression on me because, over time, a relationship can develop with a client. The client can mellow towards the therapist; the therapist can, then, warm towards the client. But the initial impression still has meaning. Did the client-who now seems so sweet-appear to be a wild man the first day you met him? Well, Governor LePage struck me like someone I might have met who was psychotic and off his medication. That was my first impression. The one I am supposed to use when I reflect on a client...although, of course, he is not my client.

So, as I have acknowledged before, I do not actually know the governor and I cannot diagnose him from video or television clips.

AGBF