tourmaline price comparison?

[enbcfsobe]

i stopped into a local lapidary''s shop over lunch. i''ve been there a few times before and had one custom piece done as a gift. i''m starting to feel like his prices on faceted stones are high (although his prices for custom metalwork seem fair), but i feel like i''m at a disadvantage in evaluating prices.
i was looking at two oval green tourmalines with a fairly strong yellow-green secondary color (making for an avocadoey overall color, one was around 3.5ct and the other was just over 4ct. he said the per carat price would be $200/ct.
this seemed like a lot given that they weren''t chrome tourmalines or paraibas or anything fancy like that. the cuts were fine (not windowed, good meet points) and they were eye clean, but they weren''t anything terribly creative or impressive -- just decent non-windowed ovals with some darkness in the ends.
what is a good way to get a reality check on prices? maybe this is a fairer price for a B&M store than I realize, but I have only bought online in the past. how do i find other "apples" to compare it to?

your advice is much appreciated...

 

[Liane]

Unfortunately it''s really tough to do an apples-to-apples comparison without being able to literally compare the stones side by side. Written descriptions are unavoidably imprecise.

Most of the yellowy-green tourmalines that I have seen were fairly muddy in color and therefore inexpensive. The ones I''ve seen sold for about $70/carat -- but, again, they were not great color and most of the price was for the cutter''s time and labor. Also they were all less than 2 carats, and I''m sure there''s a price jump for the bigger sizes (although I don''t know how much it would be for 3-4 carat tourmalines in that color). I know that''s probably not very helpful but it''s as close as I can get.

I generally expect to pay about 20% more in a B&M than I do online... which is one reason why I do most of my gem shopping online, although now and again it''s worth paying the markup if I really love a particular stone or want to keep a good relationship with a local jeweler.

 

[Liane]

(Also, this is totally random and a longshot, but it wasn''t FGS, was it? If so, I think I was in that exact same shop with you. HA!!)

 

[T L]

Date: 1/12/2010 2:56:39 PM
Author:enbcfsobe
i stopped into a local lapidary''s shop over lunch. i''ve been there a few times before and had one custom piece done as a gift. i''m starting to feel like his prices on faceted stones are high (although his prices for custom metalwork seem fair), but i feel like i''m at a disadvantage in evaluating prices.
i was looking at two oval green tourmalines with a fairly strong yellow-green secondary color (making for an avocadoey overall color, one was around 3.5ct and the other was just over 4ct. he said the per carat price would be $200/ct.
this seemed like a lot given that they weren''t chrome tourmalines or paraibas or anything fancy like that. the cuts were fine (not windowed, good meet points) and they were eye clean, but they weren''t anything terribly creative or impressive -- just decent non-windowed ovals with some darkness in the ends.
what is a good way to get a reality check on prices? maybe this is a fairer price for a B&M store than I realize, but I have only bought online in the past. how do i find other ''apples'' to compare it to?

your advice is much appreciated...

Unfotunately, I have found B&M stores to be extremely high in price for even mediocre stores. That''s not to say ALL B&M stores charge so much more, but from my experience, the prices are ridiculous for the quality. I think they''re not just 20% higher, but more like 400% higher than what I would pay for similar quality.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/12/2010 2:56:39 PM
Author:enbcfsobe
i stopped into a local lapidary''s shop over lunch. i''ve been there a few times before and had one custom piece done as a gift. i''m starting to feel like his prices on faceted stones are high (although his prices for custom metalwork seem fair), but i feel like i''m at a disadvantage in evaluating prices.
i was looking at two oval green tourmalines with a fairly strong yellow-green secondary color (making for an avocadoey overall color, one was around 3.5ct and the other was just over 4ct. he said the per carat price would be $200/ct.
this seemed like a lot given that they weren''t chrome tourmalines or paraibas or anything fancy like that. the cuts were fine (not windowed, good meet points) and they were eye clean, but they weren''t anything terribly creative or impressive -- just decent non-windowed ovals with some darkness in the ends.
what is a good way to get a reality check on prices? maybe this is a fairer price for a B&M store than I realize, but I have only bought online in the past. how do i find other ''apples'' to compare it to?

your advice is much appreciated...

I wouldn''t pay more than $20/ct for such a stone, if it''s precision cut, maybe $50/ct tops.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Are you in Philly?

If you are, I''d love to know the shop since I''m looking for good custom jewelers

 

[enbcfsobe]

Liane, was that you with the emeralds?? I suspected you might be a PSer but felt weird asking. Have you used fgs before? I did for that one piece he was describing, but haven''t found anything much about them online. I''d love to hear your thoughts!

 

[Liane]

Yup, that was me. The emeralds were Joshua Griswold''s from Serenity Diamonds. I''d just gotten them examined at AGA and wanted to show them off to Frank because I liked them so much and thought he''d appreciate them.

Haha, small world. What gave me away as a PS''er?

I remember the tourmaline description you gave him. Have you seen the pictures that Peter Torraca has of his experimental tourmaline cut to show the C-axis? It was the first thing that popped into my head when you were describing the stone you were looking for. No idea if it''s possible to do that in green/yellow, but it does show the ring effect. I have one that''s similar from Bob Kast (that''s the one I was describing in the shop) but the colors are pretty muddy. I got it really cheap so I kept it as a play stone, but it''s not pretty enough to be what you''re looking for.

re: pricing, I think you''re correct that his prices are high on faceted gems. He is actually a prime example of someone from whom I occasionally buy gems even though I know the prices are inflated, just because to me it''s worth it to maintain a good relationship with someone local who''s so incredibly knowledgeable and enthusiastic about colored gems. But yeah, the pricing is definitely high.

 

[enbcfsobe]

MTG, I am in Philly and per Liane''s query above I was in FGS on jeweler''s row. (BTW I adore the tanzanite pendant from Sally!) The custom work FGS did for me was very nice (again, shamefully no pics) but it was just a silver wirework abstract setting for a polished emerald mineral specimen, so I can''t speak to his other work.

My platinum engagement set was custom-made by a jeweler in Jenkintown called My Jewel Shop. Don''t know if she''s still there but they had a lady named Cathy doing their wax and she was incredibly helpful, though it was not cheap (this was offset partly by getting my stone for about the same as it would''ve cost to buy online). There''s threads on my ring somewhere... I''m still looking for a benchman downtown myself b/c we got rid of our car.

Sorry I can''t be of more help -- maybe Liane knows someone??

 

[Liane]

I can tell you who I don''t like on Jewelers'' Row (actually I probably won''t, at least not openly -- if only we had pm''s! -- but if we ever do a Philly GTG I will happily moan and complain then). I''m still looking for a good benchman myself. One of my friends had her platinum micropave custom set done through Canzi Creations, and she loves their work, but it seems like a bit much to ask them to do my smaller setting projects.

I actually haven''t asked Frank to do any custom work for me, but I might change that soon. He''s shown me a lot of work he''s done for other people and it all looked very nice, although much of it was bulkier than suits my personal taste. But I''ll probably ask him to do a pendant for me in the next couple of months and will report back on how that goes.

enbcfsobe -- I actually debated whether to ask you for a closer look at your ring while in FGS, but I thought that would be weird so I didn''t. But I was definitely sneaking glances. It has a gorgeous profile, and I''m going to go hunt down the thread about it later.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

We should definitely do a philly gtg in jewelers row to look at eyecandy and see if we can find a good benchman!

Jstar's also in Philly, so we could have quite a colored stone collection going.

 

[enbcfsobe]

Liane that is too funny!! I'm glad to get some perspective on his prices. Have you had any success negotiating with him? It's all too tempting to walk in there because I work so close by!
I haven't used AGA for colored stones before, just my e-ring -- were they helpful?

ETA -- Thanks for the idea on peter torraca -- that might fit the bill!! I also liked this bicolor sapphire from Dana but think the inclusions might be distracting and it might be actually too green.

I'd love to do a GTG -- never actually done that before with PSers. I don't have much of a collection yet but I'm working on it. Liane, i do wish we had PM on here -- I'd love to hear about your experiences, and according to what Frank told me we are also in the same profession!!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

The last Philly GTG was a blast, did some window shopping, checked out the goodies at Tiffany's. Had some yummy food in Chinatown. Good times.

Haha, my colored stone collection has gotten way too big! I should really sell some of the stuff I don't plan on setting. Or see if I can trade them for cooking lessons..

 

[Liane]

I''m the worst person on earth to ask about negotiating. As a rule, I don''t. I''ll either buy or not buy, but I don''t bargain; I realize this is a stupid hang-up and costs me unnecessary money when I do decide to buy stuff, but I still hate hate hate doing it. Unless I don''t intend to deal with the person again and/or feel okay about consigning them to my mental "enemy" list (whereupon I can bargain mercilessly because hey! we''re not friends and never will be!), I just can''t do it. So, alas, I am no help there. But I suspect you could bargain with him or, at least, he wouldn''t take offense to your asking. The guy''s a pro and he''s dealt with waaaaayyy too many hagglers across the world to be surprised or offended at the question.

AGA is good for diamonds and the more common colored gemstones. They''re pretty good with emeralds, for example. I get the sense that they don''t see a lot of uncommon or less-expensive gems, although they can always give you book value for insurance purposes on those.

 

[enbcfsobe]

Liane, I appreciate your position on negotiating. I often feel the same way, especially when it comes to colored stones. Funny -- I insisted that FI do it for my ER, but I hate to do it for smaller projects. At the same time, usually if I have asked the "what else could you do for me" question I''ve gotten something in return. But those were almost always for things that weren''t made by the seller -- it makes me more uncomfortable asking for a better deal when someone made something themselves or you are asking them to do something especially for you. You''d think with my job I''d be better at this since I have to do it all the time!!
Also, I love the set in your avatar!!

 

[PrecisionGem]

If you are have a GTG in Philly, let me know. I''m only about 2 hours away, and my wife would an excuse to get me to drive to Philly.

As far as the subject of this thread, you have realize that most everyone here on Pricescope are the most informed consumers on earth, and have been able to shop and buy stones are very low prices, most times at wholesale prices. It''s going to be very hard for a B&M store match what people here are buying from sources all over the world. What you MAY get at the right B&M store is expert help, and maybe a price break on the setting if they are also selling you the stone.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Date: 1/12/2010 6:59:16 PM
Author: PrecisionGem
If you are have a GTG in Philly, let me know. I'm only about 2 hours away, and my wife would an excuse to get me to drive to Philly.


As far as the subject of this thread, you have realize that most everyone here on Pricescope are the most informed consumers on earth, and have been able to shop and buy stones are very low prices, most times at wholesale prices. It's going to be very hard for a B&M store match what people here are buying from sources all over the world. What you MAY get at the right B&M store is expert help, and maybe a price break on the setting if they are also selling you the stone.

!!!!

!!

Umm...I think if you were willing to come to Philly, a lot of people in Philly/DC/NYC would love to come meet you! I know I would

I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say you could pick any date most convenient to you, and many of us would show up if at all possible to meet the talented lapidary whose work we so admire!

So umm....when might you be free? (ok, I can't find a 'hopeful' emoticon..)


And just out of curiosity, do you sell to any Philly area jewelers?

 

[enbcfsobe]

I second MTG...that would make for quite the GTG.
I had a feeling things might be just as you described, Gene, but hoped that perhaps buying direct in person might be more similar to what i''d experienced on line (vs buying from a jeweler mostly selling only pre-set stones). Oh, well.
BTW -- if you have a wii or other TV-to-internet connection you must try PS on there -- although seeing stones on a 50" screen may set me up for disappointment in the end!!

 

[crecchia]

I''ve been reading Pricescope for a while and kept wanting to ask for recommendations for a jeweler in Philly. It''s so funny that there seem to be quite a few of us locals on here.

I have jewelers row at the back of my office building, but I have never really had much luck talking to anybody. Not a lot of knowledge of colored stones.

If there is a get together, count me in, too!!

 

[enbcfsobe]

twinkle, we def. work in the same neighborhood! i haven''t had much luck either -- the other day I was looking at an estate piece with a big stone that to my relatively untrained eye could have been a really light amethyst, very clear rose quartz, or glass. I asked what it was, and he said it was "quartz, like amethyst or spinel or something." ????
even for those that are more knowledgable, it seems like the (presumably) expensive rents mean that there aren''t many ''deals'' and that people aren''t excited about internet-purchased gems -- they want you to buy from them and pay their markup. that''s the sense i''m getting, anyway. i still wouldn''t know who to go to if i had a setting and stone in hand and just needed the stone set.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Jstar and I have set things locally with success. I can''t remember the name but would recognize it if we go back.

 

[Liane]

I am ridiculously excited about the possibility of meeting Gene in person. Maybe I''ll even have the necklace with his garnet ready to wear by then.

MTG, if you remember which jeweler you used, I''d like to know too.

I''ve had some crazy experiences trying to get stones set in Jewelers Row. One place told me they''d have to contact the main office in NYC to special order some four-prong, 14K basket settings for a pair of 5mm calibrated spinels, it would take up to a month to get that done, and they "weren''t sure, but probably" could do it at all. Another place quoted me $200 to do it (lol). Third place said they were flat-out not interested in such a small job (oookay, won''t be going to you for the big ones either...).

Fourth place gave me a reasonable price (FINALLY!!) but after the guy told me three separate times that the setting job would cost $50, and promised it wouldn''t be a penny above that, he charged me $60 when I actually came by to pick up the earrings, and then the exact same guy flat-out denied having ever said that it would be $50. If he''d just said $60 in the first place I would have been fine with it, because that price is completely reasonable too, but the lying was unacceptable and I''d already had iffy experiences in that shop, so yeah. I''m done there.

And that was all just on one job.