the value and uniquness of the Blue Nile Signiture Ideal Princess Cut

[stringpark]

I wanted to start out by mentioning how much I have enjoyed this site and that I really appreciate the mass amount of information broadcast here.
I am days away from making a decision on a diamond but even after a week or so of intense study I still have some confusion lingering. I am hoping to take advantage of the seasoned knowledge base on these boards. Right now I am looking at a Signature Ideal Princess cut from Blue Nile. When I started researching (only about a week ago) I was looking at rounds and for some reason I wasn''t very impressed with Blue Nile (I feel so brain fried after so much study that I can''t even remember why I didn''t like them). I think I was using the HCA and was able well cut diamonds with better prices on other sites or something like that. Anyway, when I found out from her friend that she liked the princess cut, I felt like I didn''t have any tools to work with as the HCA only works with rounds (I think, right?). So that’s when I started looking at Blue Nile for the princess cut because they go on and on about how there signature ideal princess cut meets certain standards to ensure the most brilliance. Here are there standards for their Signature collection:

Crown Height: 8.5% to 13.5%

Shape: Square (1-1.05 LxW)

Depth: 63-70%

Table: 65-72%

Polish: VG/EX

Symmetry: VG/EX

Report: GIA/GCAL
The question that keeps floating around in my mind is if this signature ideal cut is not so proprietary to Blue Nile and if some of the other venders have an equivalent cut.

Here are the specs of the diamonds that I have on hold with Blue Nile and diamond.com. Your advice will be invaluable, as I need to place the order by Monday for the ring to arrive in time for Christmas. Thanks in advance.
Blue Nile Signature Ideal Princess Cut:
GIA and Gcal cert. and gemscribed
1.02 carat
E
VS1
1.01 l/w ratio (5.72x5.65x3.57)
girdle: stk-thk
D%63.2
T%70.0
excellent polish
excellent symmetry
culet: none
florescence: none
crown height: 10%
Price: $7100
Diamond.com Ideal princess cut:
Report GIA
Carat Weight 1.11
Length-to-Width 5.76 x 5.74 x 4.05
Depth 70.6
Table 66
Girdle STK-THK
Culet NON
Polish EX
Symmetry EX
Clarity Grade IF
Color Grade F
Fluorescence NON
Price $6200

indecently the price difference may be countered by a discount on the setting at bluenile. I have noticed that their settings are in the neighborhood of a $1000 cheaper than a comparable setting at diamonds.com.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[perry]

Stringpark:

Blue Nile is one of a perhaps a dozen vendors supplying general quality diamonds, and then have a few diamonds in stock of nominaly better cut quality. However, they really do not provide some of the better information avaialble on cut quality - and thus - there are good diamonds and not so good diamonds available.

I have also found that Blue Nile has slightly higher prices than some other vendors, and in most cases you can do better if you look.

Here is my basic advice that I give to people in your position:

How much time do you have and how much time are you willing to invest in educating yourself and searching.

This forum, and some of the vendors associated with it, focus on what I call the SuperIdeal Cut - WOW quality looking diamonds. Many diamonds are kinda dead in normal lighting (and most jewelery stores use fancy lighting that makes the deadest stone look great).

If you want to buy a great looking diamond - right now - for a fair price - without spending a lot of time educating yourself and searching: Go straight to Good Old Gold and NiceIce and select the diamond you want. These companies only stock the best of the best, and the prices are usually as good as Blue Nile Select.

If you have some time to do some education and research there are about 1/2 dozen other sites that have good to the best of the best diamonds. With a week or two of effort you could learn enough to sort these out and get a great diamond for a perhaps a bit less.

Finally, by hanging arround for weeks (to months) and by buying a few minor tools you can figure out how to get exactly what you want at a very good price.

You can also ask people here to help on certian diamonds.

I wish you the best.

Perry

 

[moremoremore]

You have some good advice here! one thing you should know about the princess...there is no one formula. There is no one depth and table combo. In fact, Jonathan (GOG) will be the first to tell you that it's all about the crown and pavillion angle relationship. A lot of times, you can get that by starting with a good depth and table combo. Also, while a 65 depth may be a "1A" and a 68 table might be a 1a, that might get you a flat stone. Most here will tell you to start with a good depth 70-73 and a table a bit smaller than the depth...NOT a guarantee...but certainly a good way to narrow it down when that's all the ino you have...There is no way to know until you get a sarin on it...or, if you'e an expert, you can trust your eyes I guess....Also, I think that you'll find that good princess stones tend to be more deep than shallow. I like a good 70-72 depth.... and a nice table and a crown height over 10. Best off luck.

 

[DiamondsRagirlsbestfriend]

I agree with you about the price of Blue Nile''s settings. They appear to be much less expensive than those I''ve seen elsewhere (both on the internet and in retail stores). As a matter of fact, I just spent the afternoon shopping for a jeweler to reset my engagement ring into platinum, and we''re looking at at least $1200 for something VERY basic with no stones.

I wish I could give you better advice about the stone. I''m just not much of an expert, and I don''t want to give you bad info.

Last, but not least, how exciting that you''re taking this step. It sounds like you''re going to have an amazing Christmas.

Best, Mary

 

[belle]

good advice perry! it''s true stringpark, as the saying goes, knowledge is power...........if you have the time to look around a bit, you can find more than you wanted to know about diamonds. jonathan at good old gold www.goodoldgold.com has lots of helpful information about princess cuts (and many others!) that you might want to check out for starters. also go to dave''s site www.gemappraisers.com and look at the AGA cut grade charts and rules and look at the #''s for princess cuts, that way you can try to track down a better cut stone. best of luck to you. if you have any questions about a stone, there are plenty of helpful and knowledge people around here!!

good luck!

 

[stringpark]

Thanks so much for the replies. The info and links have been quite helpful. I am leaning more toward the Diamond.com diamond that I listed, because it meets the depth and table percentages that mmm suggested. If it has a decent crown height then a guess it would make a good candidate for being the SuperIdeal cut of which Perry spoke(?). The problem is that diamond.com does not have any information other than the GIA cert. So I guess the only way to tell is to get the diamond in the hands of someone that can do a serin and hope for the best. I have an appointment set up with Octagon Gem (an independent appraiser recommended by this site) for next week. I need to call her Monday and ask if she is able to do a serin and brilliance scope and all that.
Indecently I do like the low table % in the diamond.com stone. I think anything that can make the pavilion of a 57 facet stone a little busier is a good thing. I tell ya, I checked out a Leo diamond recently and was blown away by the extra facets (66). I think it looks beautiful! However, I am unwilling to pay the same premium price as the stones listed above for a Leo that is lower in carat weight, color rating, polish and symmetry.

So anyway, in summary I guess I have a new set of questions. Would the diamond.com stone listed above be a great buy at the price listed above, if the crown height turns out to be between 10%-15%, or does the value totally depend on the results measured with a brilliance scope? Also, I don''t suppose there is some magic equation using only the carat weight, dimensions, depth and table percentages to figure out the crown height is there? Lastly, I don''t know much about the serin, do you guys happen to know if most appraisers use the serin and brilliance scope?
Thanks, again

p.s. Mary, thank you very much. I am very exited, I just hope I can get all this figured out and have a ring in hand for Christmas

 

[perry]

The appraiser might have a Sarin, and it is extreemly unlikely that they have - or even have access through a freindly shop - a BrilliantScope (there just arn''t that many around). It''s a tossup on wheather they have and know how to use an IdealScope/Firescope/Symetryscope (all similar in function).

IF that is the kind of information you want, and you want a ring by Christmass (and you want it to look good): Then I suggest Good Old Gold immediately. Set the stone into a plain ring - and upgrade the ring later if desired.

There is a fairly active thread on what the appraisers are willing to tell you. Most appraisers only tell you the specifications of the stone and an appraisial value. You are unlikely to get an opinion on if the diamond is a knockout or a dead stone (or something in the middle). It seems that there are only a few appraisers willing to go there.

Perry

 

[DiamondsRagirlsbestfriend]

Smiles, Stringpark:

Please keep us posted on your progress this week. I''m keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Mary

 

[moremoremore]

That stone looks like it could be a nice one...but even if it has a good crown height, that''s not a sure thing. Also, I''ve seen lots of "ideal" cut princess stones...but some were not appealing to my eyes...so you certainly need to see the stone.
The diamond.com stone is not listed on any other data bases...and it''s not clear if they own their stones (which they probably don''t) so that stone might not be available...but I hope it is! It sounds like it could be nice. Princess stones can be a real pain in the arse...but when you get a good one, you''ll know it! I, personally, would not deal with diamond.com. They sound like regular ol'' diamond drop shippers....like blue nile (which does own SOME of their stones)...I have found that the most important step to finding a good stone is a good vendor!!!!!!! One who can get the stone in, take a look at it, help you make an informed decision. I have worked with GOG in the past, and Jon is great. I purchased my stone from mark at engagementringsdirect.com in NYC (I''m local)...I didn''t ask for a sarin

even though I was a princess sarin and b-scope freak. (I think a light scope image is most important) The stone he got for me spoke volumes. I am finally satisfied. No small task! No matter who you buy from, I''m sure you''ll find the ONE!

 

[stringpark]

Thanks so much again for the replies! I can''t tell you how valuable this feedback is to me. Advice from people that know a lot more about this I do is very comforting and your input will make a huge difference as to which direction I will take. Perry and MMM, thanks for the directing me to good old gold. I have heeded your recommendation and added a GOG diamond to the mix that is comparable to the blue nile and diamond.com stones. Here is the link http://www.goodoldgold.com/princess_1_00ct_f_vs11.htm
Ok, I placed my order for an idealscope yesterday (I''m in WV and it ships UPS ground from PA, so hopefully it will get here this week before the diamond does).
At this point I think I am going to try the diamond.com stone. Indecently, MMM, I asked my sales guy at diamond.com about a notable price difference between the 1.11 that I am looking at and a 1.13 that they had listed. He told me the good price on the 1.11 was because they had bought the stone and have it in their possession. If he is correct on this then it sounds like a good thing.
The thing is, is that it doesn''t necessarily have to be for Christmas, although it would be cool if it worked out. Since the 1.11 has good figures on the stats that I do have on it, and because it has an attractive table %, then I guess I can order it in and look at it through the idealscope. If it looks crapy then I''ll just take advantage of the return policy and send it back. I wish I had the money to buy both the GOG and the diamond.com stone and compare them side buy side with the idealscope and then send one back, but this is not a possibility.
Oh yeah, here is the explanation for my madness. With various discounts that diamond.com has offered me, I can get their stone for about a couple hundred more than what I would pay for the GOG stone I mentioned. I figured that if the 1.11 turns out to be good then I would only be paying a couple hundred more for a stone that is .11 more in weight and a few grades better in clarity. Please let me know if my logic is flawed, I will not be insulted.
To sum up this overly long post, I have a quick question (or two). Should most appraisers be able to tell me at least the crown height or does require a sarin? And lastly, if the answer to the previous question is yes (that most appraisers can measure crown height) then would it be within my rights to ask diamond.com to try to get me the information on the crown height before shipping it to me. I understand that a good crown height will not guarantee a good stone but that stat could help me eliminate this stone.
Thanks

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/19/2004 5:33:18 PM
Author: stringpark
I understand that a good crown height will not guarantee a good stone but that stat could help me eliminate this stone.

Well, they could estimate crown height, but that Ideal Scope thing works on set diamonds quite well (since there seems to be some need for speed here - meaning the seller of the stone will set it, right ?) - it''s much close to "seeing" the diamond than numbers are, IMO.

This is what I am talking about.

 

[moremoremore]

I like that GOG stone. I'm sure it's a really nice stone!
It's also very cool that diamond.com has that F IF in house!

The benefit of the GOG stone is that you pretty much know it's a fine looking stone.
You can't tell that about the diamond.com stone...

BUT, that diamond.com stone is going to look a lot bigger than the GOG stone b/c it's got a lesser depth. It's
about a .35-.40 diff (I don't remember exactly the mm measurements as I type this)....That's a big diff. So it's a trade off. Do you feel lucky punk? Do ya? LOL....I'd take a chance on the diamond.com stone. What did they say about it?

 

[stringpark]

well, I didn''t ask them much more than if they had the crown height info for me and if they had run any other tests on the stone other than the GIA cert. the answer was a no on both counts. MMM, you were right on the dimensions. It''s about a .40 difference.

 

[stringpark]

Well, it''s a no-go on the diamond.com stone. I called my sales guy early this morning to get the diamond on the road and he explained to me there had been a mix-up with someone who had the diamond on hold prior to them promising it to me. Long story short, they sold the diamond to her today.

I''m a little disappointed, but I''ll bounce back.
So anyway, I''m looking pretty hard at the GOG stone now. The only thing I guess that I don''t like about it is that the lightscope analysis doesn''t look all that great to me (but I certainly am no expert). It just seems that there is a lot of white in the picture. The brilliancescope analysis, however, doesn''t look that bad. So what''s more important? http://www.goodoldgold.com/princess_1_00ct_f_vs11.htm

 

[moremoremore]

Sorry about the F IF. Many fish in the sea.
I like the GOG stone, just so deep is all.

I like this fella.
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=7386690

 

[stringpark]

MMM, that is a good looking rock!
Charlie at GOG has turned me on to some of the other cuts they offer like the Square Cushion H&A and the Jubilee. I had not seen these cut before and they are beautiful! I''m in the process of perusing through the inventory right now. Maybe its a good thing that the F IF Princess didn''t work out

Thanks for all your help!

 

[moremoremore]

Ohhhh, I just love the jubilee! I like the H&A cushion, but they have depths in the mid 70s. No way Jose. So small looking imho! I say go for the jubilee! I will admit now that you''re exploring other options, I used to be a princess freak. But no longer. I ended up with a "modern" cut cushion and I''m loving it!

 

[belle]

reformed princess freak here as well..........

i now have a cushion, and would like to make room for a jubilee.

good luck to you!!

 

[chrono]

I also have a Jubilee and my husband, who isn't into diamonds at all, was shocked to see sparkly a diamond can be. He was very impressed and thought it was money well spent. Good luck in your search.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 12/18/2004 8:25:11 PM
Author: moremoremore
You have some good advice here! one thing you should know about the princess...there is no one formula. There is no one depth and table combo. In fact, Jonathan (GOG) will be the first to tell you that it''s all about the crown and pavillion angle relationship. A lot of times, you can get that by starting with a good depth and table combo. Also, while a 65 depth may be a ''1A'' and a 68 table might be a 1a, that might get you a flat stone. Most here will tell you to start with a good depth 70-73 and a table a bit smaller than the depth...NOT a guarantee...but certainly a good way to narrow it down when that''s all the ino you have...There is no way to know until you get a sarin on it...or, if you''e an expert, you can trust your eyes I guess....Also, I think that you''ll find that good princess stones tend to be more deep than shallow. I like a good 70-72 depth.... and a nice table and a crown height over 10. Best off luck.

Just reading through this and caught this comment.

Then read this one....

"I like the H&A cushion, but they have depths in the mid 70s. No way Jose."

MMM... if you browse the Square H&A''s on our site you''ll find the average depth''s right in the 69-73% range which happen to be excellent for a square and in line with your first comments. It just confused me a bit when you stated that you like a good 70-72% depth but then later on in this thread said "no way Jose" to stones that are generally in the same depth % range?

The Square H&A''s are *incredible* stones as are the Jubilee''s. Both have optics that are comparable to fine H&A''s. Frankly you can''t go wrong with either. Wait till you see one live.

 

[moremoremore]

I'll take a 70-72 princess any day! If someone HAS to have a princess, that works for me...size matters (sorry boys LOL)! But if I'm shelling out the extra bucks for a H&A stone, I'd take the jubilee over the H&A cushion any day...no way I'm paying for a 74 depth cushion H&A (I think I saw a 75!) when I can get a jubilee with a depth of 65 or a round with a depth of 60-62! U dig my heavy?
p.s. Not saying the H&A cushion isn't purdy, it's just that size matters LOL

 

[moremoremore]

Or how about this little pretty with a depth of 61-65? Ka-POW that''s a nice stone! LOL...Look familiar? (p.s. Pic courtesy of GOG..hope it''s ok)