The Alpha Female Dog

[jazzyminpin]

I resently had a topic about my Min Pin (Jasmine) and my roommates terrier mix (Marley). Both dogs are females but Jasmine is a 1 year old spayed female and Marley is a 3 year old intacted female. Jasmine has taken the role of Alpha Female in our household. Although she will react when I tell her to stop, sit, lay, etc. There are times when she just doesn't care what I say. She is very dominant over Marley and other dogs as well. At times I fell she thinks she is in control of me or other humans. I would like some advice on how to change the role of dominance from her to me. I am the owner not my dog. I have received good feed back from the last topic I posted but nothing really tells me what I can do. I know that I let my dog be this way and I need to fix it. Like I stated in my last topic Jasmine has attended dog classes but we have decided not to continue because its to difficult to control her and I wonder if she is really learning anything from the classes. I watch the dog whisperer on tv hoping to get help from that but I have had not much luck. I live in a small town and I wish I could have the dog whisperer come to my house but that won't happen. Anyway if someone has had a problem like mine please help me to fix myself and my dog.

Thanks
Candice

 

[JCJD]

I guess I''m not sure what you want us to tell you... Even if the dog whisperer were to come to your house and offer assistance with Jasmine, you would need to learn from him as well. It''s just like children - if you let them walk all over you, it won''t matter if their teacher, grandparents, parents, whomever, can control them - you have to control them yourself. Any way you look at it, this is going to be difficult, particularly if you are not willing to put in the time and effort to be a good doggy disciplinarian and mommy. Sorry that was harsh, but I think you needed to hear some of it. Your baby isn''t going to become a model dog overnight. Sorry again, but good luck.

 

[Mara]

candice you got some EXCELLENT advice in your other thread from PS''ers, what did you feel was not applicable or helpful? there were a ton of suggestions on what you could be doing to make things better for your dog and yourself.

to be blunt, no one can FIX your dog but yourself. you are the owner and you should be alpha, not your dog. you can work at it but it requires training for you, patience on your part and a lot of effort. many dog owners just go oh it''s the dog and not me and i can''t do anything about it. that''s a defeatist attitude to have and it''s not correct either.

if you do not get training for yourself and your dog together and figure out how YOU are instrumental in getting your dog to behave, no one can help you otherwise. i suggest you get in a personal trainer for the dog who will come to your house, observe both you and the dog in the home environment and will most likely be able to suggest what you should and could be doing differently.

however, there is no easy fix. good luck.

 

[diamondsrock]

well, if you search you''ll see a thread here somewhere about my dog issues with barking and such. A lot was discussed in that thread about taking back control from the dog and how to do it.
Some of the things I have changed are:
I don''t let her eat with us, she waits until we are finished. In nature, dominant dogs eat first.
I don''t let her leave the house first and pull me like she used to, I exit first, make her sit and stay, and then give her the ok to come. This way she knows I''m in control, not her.
When I enter the house I don''t respond to her if she jumps on me. I look up and tell her to sit and won''t pet her until she does.
I don''t give her treats anymore just for being cute, I make her sit or stay or down for them. This way she knows she won''t get rewarded for nothing, she has to earn it.
I know these sound harsh but they really aren''t. She still gets lots of love and attention, just not at the wrong times.
Her barking has calmed down and my neighbors should now be pleased although I haven''t spoken to them since the incident I had with them (which is in the other thread). I still can''t let her look out the window like she used to but that''s the way it is.
Good luck!
by the way, I''m reading Cesar Milan''s book and it is really good.

 

[JCJD]

Hi Candice,

I reread your thread and thought about it some more. I think the reason you''re not getting the kind of specific information it seems you''re looking for is that we, as internet acquaintances, simply cannot know or even guess what it is that you are doing that is causing your dog to act the way it does. This is why I, in your previous thread, suggested you bring a private (make sure they are licensed!) dog trainer into your home - don''t just enroll in Petco''s group classes again. That way, he or she can pinpoint specific behaviors that you may be inadvertently encouraging, identify to you specifically what it is you are doing and make you aware of it, provide advice as to how you can change the signals you are sending to your dog, and evaluate how effective these changes are. For example, if your tone of voice when giving a command to Jasmine is submissive, or if you have a submissive body posture, or if you relent when the dog hesitates to obey and you accept her disobedience, or if you are sending mixed signals (dominant voice but submissive body language, for example), etc etc etc, you will have problems with dominance. So you see, we can''t give you specific help because we can''t watch you and your puppy in action. All I can tell you is that if I were you, I''d hire a private trainer before the problem escalates into something more dangerous. I''d hate to have Jasmine get into a fight and either be injured or injure another animal or person when it can be easily prevented with some hard work.

diamondsrock''s advice is very good, and if your case is not severe, her suggestions will definitely help you out.

Again, good luck, and regards.

 

[Mara]

diamondsrock hit upon a few points that made me think of something that i think a lot of dog parents don't get.

dogs are heirarchical pack creatures. they react well to discipline and strictness and are HAPPIEST when they know their place in the pack and the heirarchy. if a dog is getting mixed signals, especially a dog who has a tendency to want to be alpha, they will keep challenging and testing you to try to determine their place in the pack...and if you are not consistent with 'hey i'm boss and you are beta' then they will continue to try your patience and you may see it as acting out but in reality they are just really confused and trying to figure out 'hey where do i belong here??'.

i think that some parents just don't have it in them to be that really strict or consistent parent, it's easier to relent if the dog gives you that super cute look and just ignore the behavior that preceded it. sometimes i feel BAD for disciplining portia or if she is begging and i send her off to her bed with a strict tone, greg is like 'oh mommy is mean' but in reality i am just making it easier for her to be a good dog by being consistent in my own behavior and training. she is spoiled like no one's business as well, and she gets tons of love and affection and happy toys and treats, but she also has to PERFORM, in a way, to continue to receive the good life. it's not a total free lunch (even though in reality it kind of is, can i just say how much i want to be my dog!! hehee).

anyway, we are reading a book called How Dogs Think which is excellent as well and it also talks about things like the pack and how dogs view the world vs humans. remember your dog is NOT a human and it does not have human emotions. it has a dog mentality. it doesn't equate the # of hugs you give it with how much you love it like a human would. it's very hard sometimes for people to separate their own human emotions from what a dog actually sees. i think that this tends to lead to people treating their dog in a manner on par with human behavior but i always try to remember, if we were in the wild, what would be happening here? if portia was a wild dog living in nature, how would things play out? it may sound silly but it has helped us keep consistent with things so that she doesn't get confused and end up challenging for pack heirarchy. cuz then she's gettin the smackdown! hehee.

 

[ephemery1]

Hi Candice... I know Pricescope offers expert advice on a variety of topics beyond diamonds, but I'm wondering if you might find info more relevant to this particular situation in a dog-focused forum as well? You may have already tried that... it just seems as though you are looking for very specific advice, and you might find a broader range of expertise on a forum that deals more exclusively with those topics. I imagine there must be some good ones out there... maybe even dealing specifically with MinPins. I've found several great forums for cat-owners. Either way, sounds like you've gotten some good advice so far, and I wish I had more to offer... good luck to you and your puppy-dog!!

ETA: Actually, I don't know if she'll find many more actual animal behavior experts out there, even on the dog forums... very cool degree, JC!!

 

[jazzyminpin]

I want people to understand that i did not post this second topic because I didn''t agree with what I heard in the first one but because I wanted to better explain what kind of advice I was looking for. More or less I want people to understand I am looking for advice on changing the role of Alpha female dog to me being the alpha female as the owner. I do work with my dog and have patients with her and her training. I also do know that the problem is in me not in my dog. What I don''t know is how to fix that problem. I put alot of money and time into my dog and I love her. If she never changes I am ok with that but if I can do something to try I want to be able to. If in the end I only have the choice to see a specialist then that is what I will do. I also do know that there are was around that kind of expence, what I don''t know is what that way is. I don''t want people to be upset and think that I don''t apprieciate that advice they have or are giving me I truely do. I hope this explains why i re entered my topic.

Thanks
Candice

 

[Mara]

candice, ephemery has a great point on the finding a message board for min pins...i know there is a westie board that i subscribe to and found very handy when i was training my dog. sometimes there are issues inherent in a particular breed that others have specific advice on how they dealt with it successfully. try googling for more information.

but i really do think that you should get a specialist in. we paid something like $150 for an hour and the gal was VERY knowledgeable and taught me a ton within an hour even just by watching HER and how she interacted with the dog etc. also she may want to watch you and how you interact and then give you suggestions.

i think it''s hard to give super specific advice when none of us really know you or your dog wheras someone who is there at the time can say ''see you should be doing THIS when she does THIS''...it''s just more useful information to you IMO. anyway, hang in there and good luck!!

 

[JCJD]

Hi Candice,

Yes, it does explain why you reposted - thanks. In light of your reasons for reposting, I''d suggest you try out diamondsrock''s suggestions for a month consistently, and if you see no improvement, find a professional, accredited dog trainer. Here''s a website with a directory of Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists on the Animal Behavior Society''s web page: http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSAppliedBehavior/caab-directory

You should also ask your vet for trainer recommendations.

Basically, you need to assert your dominance over Jasmine in clear and consistent ways that she will understand. You can probably google something like "dog pack mentality" or "dog dominance hierarchy" and find some applicable information. Hope that helps and is more specific for you.

ephemery - Thanks! I like it.

And actually, animal behavior is a very quickly growing academic field. Animal behavior is important for understanding and applying conservation efforts, wildlife management and rehabilitation, human-animal interactions, pest control, and many other ecological issues.

 

[fire&ice]

More later - but first -

A spayed older female is the hardest to break of being the Alpha. I am not sure why - maybe lack of natural order - not sure - so give it time & consisitency. In other words, don''t expect a change over night.

Who feeds the dog? Do you take the dog on walks? Do you make a habit of putting both dogs in doggy downs? Do they have distinct areas of where they are feed? Do you crate them? In other words, what are you regular habits with the dogs?

You may want to find a min pin board - yahoo has the most breed specific message boards (unless you are on AOL). They can be helpful - but DO keep in mind that these are DOG people. They aren''t going to give you information/advice, etc. in a very kind soft manner. You need to have some tough skin.