So I found a great deal but there''s a catch...

[SSteve]

They tell me it''s a .96 F VS1 Premium cut for $ 4200. They''re a local wholesaler whose name I found on this site and I don''t have any reason to doubt them but it''s uncertified. Can I send this to AGS or GIA? I''d really rather do AGS but I heard they don''t accept from private consumers. If I send it in or if I get the company to do so how much should the certification cost?

TIA

 

[moremoremore]

Hi there. Actually, I think true wholesalers don''t sell to the public...and I think you *do* have every reason to doubt them until they have proven themselves...I would see if others have used them...

 

[strmrdr]

my rule: cert before $$ at that price level
anything else is not smart.

 

[RockDoc]

The answer here is simple.

If the seller won''t get the AGS report in advance, find someone who has diamonds that already have the AGS reports.

You''re taking quite a risk in buying the stone and then having it graded. Suppose the report comes back from AGS that says it is less than what the seller represented?

Too many people already have these reports with their stones, so you don''t need to take that risk. The seller can submit the stone for you, and AGS completes the report in 5 business days.

"Premium cut" as a description is just not good enough to rely on.

Don''t be tempted by a cheaper price. They rarely are cheaper.

Rockdoc

 

[MissAva]

Date: 3/30/2006 9:18:42 AM
Author:SSteve
They tell me it''s a .96 F VS1 Premium cut for $ 4200. They''re a local wholesaler whose name I found on this site and I don''t have any reason to doubt them but it''s uncertified. Can I send this to AGS or GIA? I''d really rather do AGS but I heard they don''t accept from private consumers. If I send it in or if I get the company to do so how much should the certification cost?

TIA

Which Pricescope vendor sells stones with out a grading report?

 

[valeria101]

What am I missing?

There seem to be 90 pointers for less than this lab reports & all. Is there reason to believe that this diamond is better cut than any random listing in the database here that comes with certified grades?

Example, at random


There seem to be quite a range of prices across offers between .9 and .99cts, while size is very much a matter of cut in such a tight weight range and cut quality remains unknown. Strange thing that.

Now, if this little fellow is known to have what it takes for a high cut grade or otherwise deserves attention, it sounds like checking the grades would be worth it. AGS may be faster ... Anyway , the seller concerned should know this 100% better than I do. It is not so unusual to make a purchase dependent on pending lab report and agreement to adjust price if the results come way of mark. As far as I know, one grade difference between the seller''s guess and the lab''s is not uncommon and gets factored in one way or another. Up to both of you if the hassle is worth it.

But it is done... sometimes.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/30/2006 9:38:47 AM
Author: Matatora

Date: 3/30/2006 9:18:42 AM

Author:SSteve

They tell me it''s a .96 F VS1 Premium cut for $ 4200. They''re a local wholesaler whose name I found on this site and I don''t have any reason to doubt them but it''s uncertified. Can I send this to AGS or GIA? I''d really rather do AGS but I heard they don''t accept from private consumers. If I send it in or if I get the company to do so how much should the certification cost?


TIA

Which Pricescope vendor sells stones with out a grading report?

good question

 

[Houseparty]

Some of the B&M guys say "this diamond is a blah blah blah, but it is not certed because we do not want to increase the price to you. See how beautiful it is..." While there is an exception to every rule; think simple economics and their best interest...

If you had a $4000 stone that has all this going for it, it only makes sence for you to invest $50-$150 bucks (depending on the lab) to verify its authenticity. If someone takes it the GIA or AGS, I''ll make you a wager it is NOT a "F VS1". In terms of "premium cut", I''ll also predict it is NOT an AGS0. Even without a lab report, they should be able to estimate the depth and table, which is a start.

Unless you are a gemologist, I suggest that you not pay 4 grand for an uncertified stone.

Sincerely,
David

 

[SSteve]

Let me clarify, they are not a vendor but a local place in Tampa that someone had mentioned here before, Mavilo''s. I went to check them out and that''s what I found. Today they said they would send it to get certed if I payed for it in the price when I bought the stone. They said they don''t really use AGS but would be GIA. So it should be ~150?

 

[kenny]

I'd respond, "I don't really buy stones without an AGS report".

I'm suspicious of a stone that you will send to GIA but not to AGS, I suspect I know why - AGS will not call it a great cut.
Send it to AGS, then I'll decide if I want to buy it since GIA's new looser cut standards are not precise enough for me.
I'll pay the $200 for the AGS report IF I buy it.
And if it does not come back as F VS1 on the AGS report we will negotiate the corrected price.

If I don't want it charge the next customer the extra $200 for the stone.
Besides, it will sell easier with good paper, even if AGS gives it G VS2.


I'll bet they vendor will say, "No way".
Selling a stone for $4200 with no paper means they are hoping for a buyer who is not very knowledgeable.

 

[Rod]

Date: 3/30/2006 2:00:22 PM
Author: SSteve
Let me clarify, they are not a vendor but a local place in Tampa that someone had mentioned here before, Mavilo's. I went to check them out and that's what I found. Today they said they would send it to get certed if I payed for it in the price when I bought the stone. They said they don't really use AGS but would be GIA. So it should be ~150?

Kenny advised that you should only consider an AGS report. That's fine, but I still believe in GIA and I have one of the newer GIA grading reports on my pet rock that is quite accurate. My stone is not an 'Ideal' cut stone (it's what many would call a 'Premium' cut - which in it's case means it's shallower and has a larger table) and GIA gave it a 'Very Good' grade, not excellent. None-the-less my rock is beautiful and I'm proud to have it. You should be fine with a GIA report. If GIA says the stone is what Mavilo's says, then good for you.

BTW........Who is Mavilo's???? Since you are in Tampa (I'm in Tampa too), I would suggest you call Cappello and Company in Belleaire Bluffs (near Clearwater - see Tampa Bay Magazine, they have a full page ad in every issue). They are really quite quite good and they made two custom rings for me recently (see my thread Three More Days) and the stones are stunning and they have their own in-house Platinumsmith. Ask for either Jennifer of Joe. The number is: 727-585-5700. Tell them Rod sent you.

Best wishes to you.........

 

[kenny]

I didn't say I don't believe in GIA
And I didn't say GIA was not accurate.

GIA's top Cut grade allows many more combinations than AGS's does.
Yes there is overlap, but AGS has a smaller bullseye; I like that.
They get MY diamond money.

This is being representied as a Premium cut.
If it was my $4200 I'd want to know HOW premium.
AGS will answer that question better than GIA.

 

[Rod]

Date: 3/30/2006 2:40:41 PM
Author: kenny
I didn''t say I don''t believe in GIA
And I didn''t say GIA was not accurate.

GIA''s top Cut grade allows many more combinations than AGS''s does.
Yes there is overlap, but AGS has a smaller bullseye; I like that.
They get MY diamond money.

This is being representied as a Premium cut.
If it was my $4200 I''d want to know HOW premium.
AGS will answer that question better than GIA.

I''m not sure I still am buying your premise. He was told the stone was F VS1 Premium (what does that word really mean anyway?). I''m quite sure GIA is more than capable of letting him know if the stone is indeed an F in Color and VS1 in Clarity. They''ll provide all the angles, Pavillion/Crown - something they did not in the past. And he''ll have a darn good inkling if the stone is as it was represented.

He''s seen the stone with his eyes. With a reputable grading report he can then decide if the stone merits purchase. I just would not say AGS will answer his questions better than GIA. That seems a little extreme. No offense............

 

[kenny]

I understand.
And yes, you are right, GIA can verify the F VS1 (though I think I've read here from that study PS did that AGS may be a bit tougher on those specs too).
But when it comes to cut you have to be pretty knowledgeable to interpret the numbers.
Most pricescopers are.
But many buyers are not, and a simple guideline like insist on AGS0 cut improves their odds of getting a super cut.

But as far as I'm concerned the top grade from GIA (Excellent) is not as desireable as a top grade from AGS (Ideal) because GIA has a larger bullseye.

If you don't want to spend a long time learning all about cut just pick AGS ideal cut.
*Odds are* you are getting a better cut than a GIA Excellent.

It is expected that many cutters will cut the rough-retaining steep-deeps that just make the loose GIA Ex spec.

 

[Rod]

Date: 3/30/2006 3:04:59 PM
Author: kenny
I understand.
And yes, you are right, GIA can verify the F VS1 (though I think I''ve read here from that study PS did that AGS may be a bit tougher on those specs too).
But when it comes to cut you have to be pretty knowledgeable to interpret the numbers.
Most pricescopers are.
But many buyers are not, and a simple guideline like insist on AGS0 cut improves their odds of getting a super cut.

But as far as I''m concerned the top grade from GIA (Excellent) is not as desireable as a top grade from AGS (Ideal) because GIA has a larger bullseye.

If you don''t want to spend months learning all about cut just pick AGS ideal cut.
*Odds are* you are getting a better cut than a GIA Excellent.

It is expected that many cutters will cut the rough-retaining steep-deeps that just make the loose GIA Ex spec.

My Dear Kenny......

We can lob missiles on this subject, I guess ''till the cows come home. I''ve read all the posts about the new GIA grading system. But in this case, I think Steve can feel fine about the stone if GIA gives it good grades. Yes the GIA bullseye is larger. Yes, GIA is grading some steep/deep stones as excellent. And yes, AGS might disagree. But, AGS is just as capable of providing grades that could be disputed.

All I''m saying is that in this case, Steve shouldn''t feel bad about getting a GIA grading report.

 

[SSteve]

Rod- I found Mavilo''s searching through old posts here, they are off armenia just S of MLK behind colonial bank. I was very impressed with their store and the service was very good. Now I just need to find out of the diamond is worth it''s weight, lol.