SI1 melee

[TLS]

If looking at an SI1 melee 3 point diamonds what is acceptable to see under 10x?

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Date: 2/28/2005 9:13:29 PM
Author:TL1
If looking at an SI1 melee 3 point diamonds what is acceptable to see under 10x?

First off TL1 because of the economics of marketing melee stones none will come with a official cert. Now based on the seller or particular vendor si-1''s have a broad range of characteristics which give it the si-1 grade.

In this small of a stone being 3 points the inclusions are going to be hard to find. As a diamond gradually gets larger in weight, the size of inclusions also characteristically get bigger. An si-1 inclusion in a 1 carat stone will be smaller than an si-1 inclusion in a 4 carat stone. Now since you are referring to melee the si-1 inclusion/inclusion''s will be harder to view relative to the size of the stone. How the stone is graded will stay the same, but the size of the inclusions relative to the size of the stone change. Under a 10x''s loupe I think you will find it much harder to spot an si-1 inclusion which would be more readily visible with a loupe in a larger stone.

Hope this helps..

 

[TLS]

Hey Josh - thanks for the response. I am finding the inclusions not visible with my eyes in these 3 pointers (might be 4 pointers not sure) in my band but when i put a few of the stones under the microscope or the ideal scope i can readily find several brown inclusions in these - not what i expected for supposed SI's. My experience has been such a complete dissapointment (other than the actual part of buying the solitaire from Jonathan which was great). As far as dealing with my local jeweler everything has been lousy.

The band is really sparkly, much more so than anything else i looked at in stores, so I know I should probably be happy but I am just so disappointed with the little melee... even though i can't see it with my eyes it is bugging me - I am a perfectionistic i guess.. but when you are paying the absurd sums of money they are asking you want what you pay for.

I don't know if i am just being ridiculous or what considering the ring looks great, but this bugs me... and then to top it off the local vendor who set the stone screwed up and didn't give me a platinum head. This is like a comedy of errors.... awful.

thanks for you advice, the ring is going to the appraiser on wednesday and I am going to ask him to give his opinion on the quality of the melee.

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Date: 2/28/2005 11

7:50 PM
Author: TL1
Hey Josh - thanks for the response. I am finding the inclusions not visible with my eyes in these 3 pointers (might be 4 pointers not sure) in my band but when i put a few of the stones under the microscope or the ideal scope i can readily find several brown inclusions in these - not what i expected for supposed SI''s. My experience has been such a complete dissapointment (other than the actual part of buying the solitaire from Jonathan which was great). As far as dealing with my local jeweler everything has been lousy.

The band is really sparkly, much more so than anything else i looked at in stores, so I know I should probably be happy but I am just so disappointed with the little melee... even though i can''t see it with my eyes it is bugging me - I am a perfectionistic i guess.. but when you are paying the absurd sums of money they are asking you want what you pay for.

I don''t know if i am just being ridiculous or what considering the ring looks great, but this bugs me... and then to top it off the local vendor who set the stone screwed up and didn''t give me a platinum head. This is like a comedy of errors.... awful.

thanks for you advice, the ring is going to the appraiser on wednesday and I am going to ask him to give his opinion on the quality of the melee.

Well TL1:

I am sorry to hear this..

I think it is largely dependent upon what jeweler or vendor your dealing with. In the past I purchased 6 .10 carat melee''s from Whiteflash which accompanied a appraisal which stated the quality to be no less than e-f and vs1. I took a look under the loupe and couldn''t find anything and was impressed by the H&A''s in these little buggers too.

Hopefully the appraiser gives you more insight..

 

[strmrdr]

Personaly I find any other clarity grading than eyeclean or its not rather silly with diamonds that small.

 

[TLS]

i would have went with whiteflash had they been local, i didn''t feel comfortable shipping my diamond around, wanted to find someone locally.

Strm not sure I caught what you were trying to say?

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

TL1:

I understand you not wanting to ship your diamond everywhere. in the past I had Whiteflash send these stones to me and then had my goldsmith mount them in my ring. I attached a picture to point out the ACA melee''s. These are .10 pointers and they are beautiful. I think i too am a cut nut and especially a perfectionist when trying to purchase the best of the best. I remember when WF originally started marketing these little stones and I was a little skeptical about the Hearts & Arrows in such a small diamond. I find it amazing that cutters can achieve this level of optical symettry in diamonds this small, especially the .02 and .03 pointers.

I agree that you shouldn''t have readily visible dark carbon spots in your melee''s if they are graded si-1, but this probably attributes to the use of Loose "In House" grading when some vendors clarity grade their stones. If they are not si-1 after the appraisal is there any recourse you have in having the local jeweler supply you with better stones?

Good luck and I attached a pic of my man''s ring with the small ACA''s along with some other bands WF has made with these smaller melee''s.

let us know what insight the appraiser gives you and good luck..

If you ever need help in the future don''t hesitate to ask, If you want I enjoy talking on the phone too and I will pay for the call. This invitation is always open to any Pricescoper who is looking for insight on making a purchase go smoother or who just wants to chat diamonds and gems..

Talk with ya later...

 

[noobie]

I tend to agree with strm on these little stones. I really don''t know what the practical difference in VVS to SI in everyday wear is. If I read you correctly TL1, your stones are eye clean and visually pleasing, but you are disappointed that some of the stones have non-white inclusions when viewed under microscope?

If that''s the case, I think it all comes down to what you want and feel comfortable with. I''m pretty comfortable with eye clean, but I can understand how black or brown inclusions would be bothersome.

Can you ask your jeleler to change out the few stones that bother you with ones that have white inclusions. Maybe they can do it without charge since they made the error on the head?

 

[TLS]

Hi Josh and Noobie - thanks for responding. I can''t wait to get the appraisers opinion, I am really feeling bummed about the stones now so hopefully I can get his honest opinion to either reassure myself or to help make a case to the jeweler as to why I am not happy. I also don''t know if they are as well cut as they seemed initially in the jewelry store under those "special" lights. I did look at setting they had in stock in natural light by the window and they seemed nice but I didn''t spend a lot of time unfortunately. I would like to also compare them to the one he had in house to see if they look different under the microscope. I am going to try to go in to the appraiser and not express my concerns before hand until he has reviewed everything - do you think that is probably the best bet, or should I tell him right away about my concerns?

Not sure if you saw my other post about the setting and the culet. I am think I am working myself into a frenzy now, and I hope it is for no reason... but I am getting more and more concerned.

Josh thanks so much for your offer for help, you are an absolute sweetheart - thank you. Let me know if you have an opinion on the culet setting situation (not sure how familiar you are with setting practices).

Thanks again

 

[noobie]

Date: 3/1/2005 10:21:16 PM
Author: TL1
I can''t wait to get the appraisers opinion, I am really feeling bummed about the stones now so hopefully I can get his honest opinion to either reassure myself or to help make a case to the jeweler as to why I am not happy.

TL1,

Getting the appraiser''s opinion is good, but I think you should decide what will make you happy. Non-white inclusions appear in stones. If it bothers you and you think it will continue to bother you, maybe the time to fix it is now. Then again, we all get more comfortable about things in time. If there are only a few stones, maybe if you ask nicely, your jeweler will pop them out and replace them with cleaner ones. The actual retail price for a 3 pt stone is about $20 or less per stone so it''s not that big a deal. Also the premium for SI to VS stones is only about 15% for small stones.

Good Luck

 

[TLS]

Noobie, no kidding 20 bucks for 3 pointer - what clarity and color grade would that be? I never in my wildest dreams thought a 3 pointer diamond could be worth 20 bucks, that is amazing. I really thought since these were so small they were pretty inexpensive. These are supposedly G, SI1 (maybe by EGL''s standards

Thanks!

 

[noobie]

The small stuff for VS F/G color goes for around $700 to $1000 per carat for full "ideal" cut depending on who''s selling, profit, how much you buy, etc. It''s available for less in premade pieces that are on sale. For example, I paid about $500 per carat for a piece with 4.5 carats of 6 pointers, but that was an amazing deal.

The poorly cut stuff can be much less. DCD has good representative prices on different grades of the small stuff and will sell lots in as small as $100 as well.