Should I stay?

[Caseys]

last night my fiancee and i got into a disagreement that ended up in a bigger fight than i thought it would. at one point in the conversation he threw his hands up and said i''m done. then he grabbed my engagement ring off my finger and put it away. we sat there without saying anything for a bit and then he said i''ll buy you out of the house. he wanted me to leave. i stayed because i was still going through what had just happened and i couldn''t believe it. then i got really angry and i tried to leave. i got as far as the outside door and he ran out, wrpped his arms around me and begged me to stay and talk. he just kept repeating that. he wasn''t hurting me or anything like that. i ran out and drove off. he kept calling me and i finally listed to his messges. he was very sorry and he wanted me to know he didn''t really mean what he said and he wanted me to come home. i eventually did but i went right to bed. he followed me and begged for my forgiveness and said that he wanted to put the ring back on my finger. i said no. this morning was the same. he kept asking for my forgiveness and he wanted to put the ring back on. i still said no. he has been apologizing ever since, saying that he didn''t mean it and he knew what he had done last night was stupid. he keeps saying that he does love me, he doesn''t want to call of our wedding, and he knows he should pitch in more around the house. this is what we had first started arguing about last night. he said he''ll change. i know he''s saying all this hoping that i''ll forgive him and we''ll continue planning our wedding as planned. i''m not sure what to do.

 

[firebirdgold]

What is holding you back on forgiving him? Is it the shock and hurt from him taking the ring off and trying to turn you out? Or is it also connected to previous doubts?

btw, people don''t change. Or at least not very quickly. If he''s never done things around the house even when on his own, it''ll take a long time if ever for that to change.

 

[Caseys]

it does sound stupid to say that he called off our engagement over a fight about cleaning because i think the cleaning was masking the bigger issue. he works hard but there''s part of him that is lazy about doing things that should be done. he''s always looking for a way out of doing something. I can''t believe he took the ring off and wanted me to move out. he wanted to buy me out of our house. how can someone do that? if i see somethig that needs to be done, i do it. i occasionally procrastinate but not like him. i see this and i keep thinking, this isn''t being a good role model (we don''t have kids yet but maybe someday). i know it''s not fair for me to wonder how this will effect kids we don''t even have, and i know i shouldn''t do that. how can i forgive someone who literally took my ring off my hand and basically called off our wedding after asking me to move out. when he lived at home, his mom worked at home raising him and his siblings. his dad worked outside the house. my fiancee never really did much around the house. i think he got so used to that. aside from this, he is a good person. i have doubts at times that his lazy behavior (he plays xbox all the time) at home will end even though he says now that he realizes what he''d be giving up if i did leave.

 

[decodelighted]

Hoo boy. Well - don''t panic. It actually doesn''t sound THAT bad to me. Dramatic, hurtful, etc = YES ... A deal-breaker? = probably not. (But not knowing the history or whole situation I can''t say for sure!)

Two words: Couples Counseling.

It''s NOT always intuitive for people to know how to talk to each other, fight fairly, negotiate important stuff & vent anger appropriately. Sometimes it needs to be LEARNED. It''s like any other skill really. Driving. Reading. etc --

Also, it doesn''t really take two people to make a difference. Sometimes just changing ONE side can drastically improve communications/interactions/relations. So, at the very least, you might wanna consider speaking with someone. To add more skills to your toolbox -- AND for an outside, objective, profesional opinion on your FI''s behavior (if only through your telling of the situations).

Good Luck!

 

[neatfreak]

Honestly? It sounds like pretty childish behavior on his part. I wouldn't be so anxious to get married to a man who does things like this. Where does it stop? Will it keep elevating? What if he ever said anything like this in front of your kids?

I don't know...I personally wouldn't feel comfortable marrying someone at this point who expresses their emotions in that way. AND it sounds to me like this was his veiled attempt at getting out of the engagement. Sorry to be harsh, but when someone says something like that they don't do it for no reason...

Minimally, I would put off the wedding and go to counseling.

 

[Mara]

i agree re couples counseling, and also in this counseling, figure out a way to communicate more effectively with each other so that neither of you feels like you have to do these big over the top dramatic gestures about ending the relationship. people say a lot of things when they are upset or hurt but there are lines that in my opinion shouldn't be easily crossed.

bottom line is that you two are engaged, or were as of last nite. that is tying your life to each other forever. or that is the plan anyway.

he should not get upset over a fight to where he pulls the ring off and tells you to get out. that is unacceptable in my opinion. on the flip side, you shouldn't be questioning staying or going if you were as of last nite engaged to him.

you are right to question things overall, but i wouldn't question whether or not you should stay or leave but rather...are you BOTH in this for the long haul? he told you to leave and took the ring off, he regretted it, now you are asking if you should stay or go.

my big Q is...are you both really ready for 'forever'??? you will have a lot of fights in the future, i would hate to think they are going to escalate into what happened last nite...how draining and just overall hurtful and not very positive.

question it and yourselves and get the counseling to figure that part out as well as how to better communicate feelings without going too far.....before you proceed with any other life changes including moving out or on the flip side, planning a wedding.

 

[scarleta]

This is not an easy situation Casey.Forgivness is what live is all about.You must think it over and if everything else in the relationship works fine then he probably just lost it at this momnet and it happens to everyone of us.IF there are more issues in the relationship then it may be wise to pospone the engement to see how it goes.AS for house duties I had similar problem and we came to agreement that if one has no time or desire to help in cleaning out etc one must be willing to pay for a cleaning lady to come and help out.( I personally like to have a clean house so it was important to me) This worked out for me .My advise would be to evaluate it properly and perhaps do not rush with anything.You may be sorry after.Give him some time.Good luck to you and have a little mercy on him he probably just lost it and had no intention of doing what he did.Having said that I would still give it some time.Im not sure how long you have known him and how things were before this happened, so take some time and give him time to prove it to you , that it was just something that won''t happen again..

 

[Caseys]

thank you all for your help. putting aside this mess, he really is a wonderful person. he is usually a very kind person. i don''t think he meant what he said but at the same time, that''s a big thing to say when you''re angry if you don''t really mean it. we are ready for forever, minus what just happened. we''ve been together for almost 4 years and we''ve lived together for 2 years. i honestly don''t know what i would have or could have done differently. i was trying to look at it from both sides and the only thing i can think of was maybe he thinks i nag him too much about getting things done. i''ve asked him if he''d go to pre-marital counseling (we''re not getting married in the church so we can''t do the traditional pre-cana counseling). he has said before that he doesn''t feel we need it. after last night i''m sure he''d agree to anything i wanted him to do. we generally have honest and open discussions and we''re pretty good about communicating about waht each other wants and needs in order to be happy (in our separate lives as well as in our life together). yes, we do have a few issues that come up even after we think we''ve worked through them. i know others go through similar things and we''re not unique in disagreeing over trivial (and not so trivial) stuff. i know we both love each other and i do think that what he said was out of anger and no, he probably didn''t mean it. but that''s a really hurtful thing he did and said and i don''t know how to move past that. i mean, taking an engagement ring off your fiancees finger and then saying that you''ll buy her out of the house that you bought together! how do you forgive that? i''d like to i just don''t know how. it''s not really as if i can just say that''s okay, i know you didn''t mean it and forget it ever happened. by doing what he did he called off our engagement. ughh, this is so confusing.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 7/18/2007 2:59:53 PM
Author: Caseys
that's a really hurtful thing he did and said and i don't know how to move past that. i mean, taking an engagement ring off your fiancees finger and then saying that you'll buy her out of the house that you bought together! how do you forgive that? i'd like to i just don't know how. it's not really as if i can just say that's okay, i know you didn't mean it and forget it ever happened. by doing what he did he called off our engagement. ughh, this is so confusing.

My guess is that if everyone was VEEEEEERY veeeeerrry honest ... MOST engagements are "called off" in the heat of an arguement at least ONCE, by one party of the other.

Not to call anyone out, but a very level-headed, mature, savvy bride around here just recalled a similar antecdote that involved HER throwing her ring out of a moving vehicle.

I, myself, probably *regretfully* pulled the "Why don't you just LEAVE?" card *sometime* during the complicated, emotional, life-altering post-engagement, pre-wedding "He moved into MY HOUSE" adjustment period. I'm not proud of it. And I've had a LOT of therapy before I ever met him so I def. know better ... I'm just saying, we're all human. And that to forgive doesn't mean to forget ... it means that you still love each other and you've decided to move on & recommit to the relationship, to making the relationship work for both of you.

Personally, I don't believe that you just commit ONCE -- when you get engaged or buy a home together or even get hitched. It's the DAILY, HOURLY, MINUTE BY MINUTE commitment that keeps you on you toes. Keeps you humble & present. My 2cts.

 

[Steel]

Caseys,

I am very sorry that you feel upset at the moment and am sending you a BIG hug.

Perhaps this is nothing, perhaps it is something. It really is your call. You know your relationship best and should trust your head and heart.

It would be wise to seek professional help, never a bad idea in my book.

Personally, I would be most concerned with the physical removal of your engagement ring.

I understand it could have been a purely symbolic gesture on his part and probably was - But, I would view it as an aggressive move and would be most upset at the ''violence'' of the act. I''m not suggesting he has an issue or that you should make it an issue. However, personally I would take note of that and file it away in my mind.

I wish you both only the best, the world can be a tough place and having a loving partner by your side can make the world of difference - however relationships take a lot of nurturing and you have to both be committed to that effort to get relatiosnhips'' benefits.

Best of luck.

 

[Caseys]

thank you decodelighted. i know a few friends of mine have had very similar fights and they too have asked their husbands or boyfriends or whatever to leave at one time or another. it''s not always the most mature and level headed thing to do but at the time it might feel like the right thing to say. i think for even a split second, it might even feel good to feel like you have power over the other person. i''m not sure if we were testing each other in some way. the thing is, we had JUST finished having a discussion about remembering to treat each other with respect and to keep in our minds that we don''t live alone anymore. i think sometimes it''s hard to always respect each other''s space and maybe we take each other for granted at times (even without meaning to). we don''t live in a big house. in fact it''s pretty tiny so it''s hard for us to have our own space without feeling crowded.


your post made me feel better, as did everyone else''s. actually, i felt relieved to hear that if everyone is being REALLY honest, those words have come out of people''s mouths (even those who are usually good-intentioned, kind hearted people).

mara, i''m not quite sure what you meant when you said that i was asking whether i should leave over what happened. i ran out because i was hurt and upset. are you saying that i should have stayed and discussed it with him further? i don''t leave often, but as i said, we''re in cramped quarters and sometimes the way to calm down is to have space between us.

 

[scarleta]

Caseys : you are now upset so its better not to make major decisions right now.Perhaps as said before pospone evertyhing and in a couple of months you both will know.If he never had to clean up his mess he won''t just do it.Easier said than done.He can get a cleaning lady and not have you do all the work yourself.Good luck to you

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 7/18/2007 2:59:53 PM
Author: Caseys
thank you all for your help. putting aside this mess, he really is a wonderful person. he is usually a very kind person. i don't think he meant what he said but at the same time, that's a big thing to say when you're angry if you don't really mean it. we are ready for forever, minus what just happened. we've been together for almost 4 years and we've lived together for 2 years. i honestly don't know what i would have or could have done differently. i was trying to look at it from both sides and the only thing i can think of was maybe he thinks i nag him too much about getting things done. i've asked him if he'd go to pre-marital counseling (we're not getting married in the church so we can't do the traditional pre-cana counseling). he has said before that he doesn't feel we need it. after last night i'm sure he'd agree to anything i wanted him to do. we generally have honest and open discussions and we're pretty good about communicating about waht each other wants and needs in order to be happy (in our separate lives as well as in our life together). yes, we do have a few issues that come up even after we think we've worked through them. i know others go through similar things and we're not unique in disagreeing over trivial (and not so trivial) stuff. i know we both love each other and i do think that what he said was out of anger and no, he probably didn't mean it. but that's a really hurtful thing he did and said and i don't know how to move past that. i mean, taking an engagement ring off your fiancees finger and then saying that you'll buy her out of the house that you bought together! how do you forgive that? i'd like to i just don't know how. it's not really as if i can just say that's okay, i know you didn't mean it and forget it ever happened. by doing what he did he called off our engagement. ughh, this is so confusing.

Caseys my father always had a story he told us ad nauseum.

It's a story about a man who used to get into a fight with his wife so often that one day the wife mid-fight, just walked out and returned with a box of nails and a hammer. After the first fight she drew her hammer and knocked a nail in the door. The husband was forbidden to remove it. And so she did this every fight. He asked her what the purpose was if not just stress relief, so why couldn't he remove them. She explained that only being good to her would remove a nail. So he tried and she removed each one until there were no more nails. But he still was worried looking at the door.

She said, our relationship is like this door. Each nail you made me drive in was removed but the holes that remain can not be removed. They are a constant reminder of each nail and weaken this relationship.

Now I ask that no one but you knows exactly how weak the door is. If it's just a few holes, that's fine. But if the holes are big and irreparable, I say that you examine it carefully. I am not trying to be negative, but look deeply into WHY you want to marry him, and if you can imagine being faithful and till death do you part, AND vice versa. Not out of comfort, or habit, but out of deep respect and mutual love.

You ARE engaged and that is a big step, but that does not mean that you are required to take a vow that will bind you to someone because you have a ring on your finger. To me, a ring is a promise, but a marraige is a vow. I would rather break a promise than break a vow. Everyone deals with conflict differently. You can leave to cool off, but you can NOT ignore it all together. That never works. Maybe cooling off was best.

Counseling is the only solution I can think of, because you need to get past something, and he needs to understand the weight of it. I don't think you can communicate that alone perhaps. If in these sessions you are not honest with him or yourself, it will be a waste of time. If you can find a way to understand what it was that made him so angry to say something that final, then maybe you can move past it. In my opinion, he is angry about something (however latent) that needs addressing, because you don't call off an engagement (as you described) in a fit of anger over cleaning the house, unless he is generally an irrational man (which I doubt). Find the issue and address it, then think well before you make a vow.

It's rewarding to make it through the times times and triumph, but just as rewarding to avoid them when they are not necessary.

Good luck dear...

 

[Beacon]

Great story Nicrez. I think there is a lot of truth in that.

Marriages usually fail as a war of attrition, not in one swift action. So the idea that all the incidents add up and ultimately destroy things seems very sensible.

Casey, your fiance created a lot of drama over this fight. He must have many conflicted feelings. I have read about this kind of argument tactic, where rather than just stay on the level of the arguement, one side goes to the penultimate level, e.g. I''ll leave you, or I''ll kill myself, or what ever. There is some phsycological term for this type of thing, but I forget what it is. One thing for sure, this is unlikely to be the last of such incidents, IMO.

Good luck to you.

 

[diamondfan]

Look, I think it is a dumb thing that he did, and if he acted like this a lot it would worry me. But, I am sure we have ALL done things in anger (not physical like hitting, but verbal things) that are dumb. And words can hurt just as much as a slap, so I do totally get that. I would really be hurt that it went that far, especially over something less important, but would use this as a learning experience. IF you love him and this is not his general way, I might be willing to give him another chance, but there would be a conversation first. I would insist he get some counseling, and agree to participate too, and make sure next time a fight escalates this is NOT the outcome. I have gotten pretty angry in the past and said some things that I did regret, and was able to fix things, but sometimes people blow their top and really cannot help it. You have to see if it is a way of the future type thing or if he learned and will try to fight more constructively in the future. And it is NOT silly to worry what your kids will see, some of those things are quite damaging to a child over time. So, I would take him back with the caveat that he learn what is fair in a fight, no low blows...and telling you to leave and removing your ring should never have happened or happen in the future if he wants to be with you.

I also agree it is also death by nicks and cuts, meaning when a relationship fails it is not usually one huge thing, but the slow bleeding out of life from it ...and often times one or the other cannot really pinpoint or recall the one incident that was it, there might be a final straw, but things evolved over time to get it to the critical point. I agree with Nicrez story in that it shows that even with apologies and declarations of never going down that path again, sometimes, over time, something has just been damaged too much for it to withstand any more, again, not one big smack with a sledgehammer but more like one more little bang that topples it finally.

Of course, you have been with him a while and you know the truth. Can these triggers be effectively dealt with so this does not devolve again in the future, and you learn how to compromise? People fight, but how they fight is what is at the core, not IF you fight. Like Deco said, and I agree, marriage is a minute to minute committment some days and you want to know the person with you is the same page as you are. Good luck, just do not act in haste, see what that got him?

 

[Skippy123]

do you love him? If so forgive him.

I agree w/Mara's post.

 

[Nicrez]

DF has a point with the kids! I have a family friend who would have fights in front of us and her kids. It was embarassing and the children would leave and cry. I have never seen anything quite like it. Make sure you create healthy communicating habits NOW.

I think yelling at someone or getting that dramatic is usually the result of a lack of respect.

Make sure your respect is intact and if not, build it up again. It's the bedrock of love, and from that comes trust. If you respect someone you don't want to hurt them, even when it means you yourself would be hurt. Pride has no place in a marraige, so don't let that ever be an option.

 

[Allisonfaye]

The removal of the ring and the fact that the fight escalated to that level would really bother me. But I think that is up to each individual.

But I agree with DF. You SHOULD worry about your future kids and what example you want to set. And I personally think that fights over the man not helping are probably a huge predictor of the failure of the marriage. Or at least disatisfaction in a marriage. And when you have kids, it just gets worse.

I hate to say it but there is no way I would marry someone who played x-box all the time.

 

[Caseys]

Thank you everyone. i appreciate your thoughts and prespectives. he was on bended knees this morning, begging for my forgiveness. he keeps telling me that he''s going to prove that he''s going to change certain things that we have disagreed about. he said that he''s going to prove that he understands the seriousness of all of this. he needs to learn that his actions have consquences and moving out and completely calling off the wedding would be the worst outcome. he would never hurt me, that i know. he has never been abusive and he never would be. he is competitive and not always level headed and he does get very angry at times. but if i thought it would go further than that, i would have left long ago.

Nicrez, thank you so much for taking time to write the story you have heard a million times. it means a lot and i''m going to mention it to my finacee if you don''t mind. i may just chalk this up to thoughtlessness and tuck this into the back of my mind. i won''t put up with this type of behavior and i''ll keep my guard up for a bit, but if things really do change for the better, i may be willing to forgive him. i won''t forget though. i imagine we''ll probably talk for a long time tonight.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 7/18/2007 4:25:27 PM
Author: Caseys
Thank you everyone. i appreciate your thoughts and prespectives. he was on bended knees this morning, begging for my forgiveness. he keeps telling me that he''s going to prove that he''s going to change certain things that we have disagreed about. he said that he''s going to prove that he understands the seriousness of all of this. he needs to learn that his actions have consquences and moving out and completely calling off the wedding would be the worst outcome. he would never hurt me, that i know. he has never been abusive and he never would be. he is competitive and not always level headed and he does get very angry at times. but if i thought it would go further than that, i would have left long ago.

Nicrez, thank you so much for taking time to write the story you have heard a million times. it means a lot and i''m going to mention it to my finacee if you don''t mind. i may just chalk this up to thoughtlessness and tuck this into the back of my mind. i won''t put up with this type of behavior and i''ll keep my guard up for a bit, but if things really do change for the better, i may be willing to forgive him. i won''t forget though. i imagine we''ll probably talk for a long time tonight.

If you forgive you need to forget or it is distructive to both of you. Counseling will help w/this. Best wishes.

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 7/18/2007 3:26:44 PM
Author: Steel

Personally, I would be most concerned with the physical removal of your engagement ring.

I understand it could have been a purely symbolic gesture on his part and probably was - But, I would view it as an aggressive move and would be most upset at the 'violence' of the act. I'm not suggesting he has an issue or that you should make it an issue. However, personally I would take note of that and file it away in my mind.

This is the part that stuck in my mind, too. Did my husband and I argue during our engagement and have moments where we wanted to call the whole thing off? Oh, yes. But it was never physical. I can't speak to whether or not this one incident means he's capable of assaulting you or your kids in the future, but I would encourage you to think long and hard about it.

During your engagement and even for awhile after you become one household, there is a lot of jockeying for control of this or that. Who's in charge of the yard, the finances, the shopping, the kitchen, the chores, etc. Not to mention in-law issues, your own family issues, negotiating whose family you spend holidays with and in what time/proportion and things like that. Oh, and friends may try to influence you because by getting married they may feel abandoned. There are just a lot of pressures because when you get married you cease to be just you, but now part of a couple.

Here's what I think. If he is the one you want to spend the rest of your life with, you may have to relax your standards. How "lazy" is he, really. Is he the kind that leaves half eaten food all over the house or is it a case of dirty socks on the floor? Does he just not pitch in on the day to day stuff? If he doesn't, does he contribute more in another way that perhaps you don't meet his standards? Would hiring a once or twice a week house cleaner help the situation? Would he be willing (and is it in the budget) to pay for it if he's not willing to mop or clean a bathroom?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 3:11:15 PM
Author: decodelighted

My guess is that if everyone was VEEEEEERY veeeeerrry honest ... MOST engagements are ''called off'' in the heat of an arguement at least ONCE, by one party of the other.

We never called off our very short 1 month engagement....... but if I''m really honest I will admit to a very childish phase somewhere in the middle of our 16 years where I was pulling off my wedding ring at every fight and being a big baby about it. My husband finally retaliated by taking off his ring and refusing to wear it for a year (it was my fault it was a whole year) until I PROMISED I would never do it again. For a long time I couldn''t promise that because I knew every time I had done it in the past it had been in the heat of the moment and a passionate middle finger flipped in the air sort of reaction to whatever I was REALLY REALLY PISSED ABOUT (and thinking oh lord I cannot endure 40 more years of this crap). But eventually it just hurt that he wasn''t wearing his ring and I stopped being a big baby about it and we moved on. We had YEARS of marriage before that and we''ve had YEARS of marriage after that... but for whatever reason I went through that and in the big scheme it didn''t effect our marriage. Long story short - it''s important to keep your eye on the BIG picture and not necessarily on the occasional tantrum.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 3:53:27 PM
Author: Beacon
Great story Nicrez. I think there is a lot of truth in that.

Marriages usually fail as a war of attrition, not in one swift action. So the idea that all the incidents add up and ultimately destroy things seems very sensible.

Casey, your fiance created a lot of drama over this fight. He must have many conflicted feelings. I have read about this kind of argument tactic, where rather than just stay on the level of the arguement, one side goes to the penultimate level, e.g. I''ll leave you, or I''ll kill myself, or what ever. There is some phsycological term for this type of thing, but I forget what it is. One thing for sure, this is unlikely to be the last of such incidents, IMO.

Good luck to you.

but it could be.... I haven''t taken off my ring in a tantrum for years now. I did it because I wanted to hurt him, not because I wanted a divorce. I suspect her fiance wanted to hurt her.... and I doubt he wanted to hurt her for the fun of it.... she touched a nerve and he kneejerked. Been there done that, but it CAN be worked through - this is a behavior issue and those are (relatively) easy to fix. The real issue is what nerve did she touch... and I suspect that will be more difficult to address than his tantrum and I suspect that is at least in part her reluctance to forgive... because it goes deeper than just his tantrum.

 

[iwannaprettyone]

You need to make it clear that that ring is a symbol of love, and it is OFF LIMITS to disrespect and consequent negative connotation.

 

[door knob solitaire]

Sweetie...this is what an engagement period is all about. Some think of it as time to order the cake and flowers...and to line up a 30 piece orchestra. But it is all about you two and how you handle everyday things that you will have to do when you promise this is forever.

Yeah, we have all had our blow ups. Mine were nuclear...atomic fallout level. But I am a tough cookie. Others would have buckled and crumbled. I don''t regret my choice-it worked fabulous for me.

I think you need to figure out what rating on the rickter scale this ring removal rates with you. Not just that event...but weigh all the other things that evolved into this. Yeah it is painful and scary to think that way...but you have to in order to come to a correct decision. No one who loves you will be mad if you decide to delay or call off. And yet those who love you would be mad to learn you felt forced to proceed as the plans were already in motion. Take the time you need to feel completely sure. Keep him concerned and carring that ring if that is what you want. It would sure be not forgotten soon.

One thing I would like to confirm is people don''t change because of a gold band, or ceremony. Or because your hair or waist line is attractive. Or because you can cook like no one else. If there are traits that annoy you now, you should ask yourself if you can live with them forever. This is the one truth and answer you can take from this discussion. A few other posters touched on it. You got a sloppy joe? Get out napkins cause he is going to remain.

Sure wish I could answer your thread topic question for you...but you and only you can do that.

I feel so sorry for what you are going through...really.

DKS

 

[marvel]

Date: 7/18/2007 2:33:05 PM
Author: Caseys
it does sound stupid to say that he called off our engagement over a fight about cleaning because i think the cleaning was masking the bigger issue. he works hard but there's part of him that is lazy about doing things that should be done. he's always looking for a way out of doing something. I can't believe he took the ring off and wanted me to move out. he wanted to buy me out of our house. how can someone do that? if i see somethig that needs to be done, i do it. i occasionally procrastinate but not like him. i see this and i keep thinking, this isn't being a good role model (we don't have kids yet but maybe someday). i know it's not fair for me to wonder how this will effect kids we don't even have, and i know i shouldn't do that. how can i forgive someone who literally took my ring off my hand and basically called off our wedding after asking me to move out. when he lived at home, his mom worked at home raising him and his siblings. his dad worked outside the house. my fiancee never really did much around the house. i think he got so used to that. aside from this, he is a good person. i have doubts at times that his lazy behavior (he plays xbox all the time) at home will end even though he says now that he realizes what he'd be giving up if i did leave.

Here's my two cents...and remember, you get what you pay for

This is who he is. He might change a bit, but don't plan on it, or expect it. I think you need to decide if this is something you can live with. If so, then just let it go and do the things you want done without his help. If this is not something you can live with, then move on. I know it sounds black and white. Maybe there is a happy medium. Only you can decide if this is worth staying, or not.

Good luck!!

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:27:19 PM
Author: door knob solitaire
Sweetie...this is what an engagement period is all about. Some think of it as time to order the cake and flowers...and to line up a 30 piece orchestra. But it is all about you two and how you handle everyday things that you will have to do when you promise this is forever.

Yeah, we have all had our blow ups. Mine were nuclear...atomic fallout level. But I am a tough cookie. Others would have buckled and crumbled. I don''t regret my choice-it worked fabulous for me.

I think you need to figure out what rating on the rickter scale this ring removal rates with you. Not just that event...but weigh all the other things that evolved into this. Yeah it is painful and scary to think that way...but you have to in order to come to a correct decision. No one who loves you will be mad if you decide to delay or call off. And yet those who love you would be mad to learn you felt forced to proceed as the plans were already in motion. Take the time you need to feel completely sure. Keep him concerned and carring that ring if that is what you want. It would sure be not forgotten soon.

One thing I would like to confirm is people don''t change because of a gold band, or ceremony. Or because your hair or waist line is attractive. Or because you can cook like no one else. If there are traits that annoy you now, you should ask yourself if you can live with them forever. This is the one truth and answer you can take from this discussion. A few other posters touched on it. You got a sloppy joe? Get out napkins cause he is going to remain.

Sure wish I could answer your thread topic question for you...but you and only you can do that.

I feel so sorry for what you are going through...really.

DKS

Ditto!

Caseys, the engagement period can be so very difficult. Lots of emotional highs and lows (oh my gosh, I''m marrying a man who''s version of cleaning is shoving dirty socks under the couch!). What he did isn''t acceptable, but if you choose to forgive him, you need to truly forgive him and let it go, holding on to what happened will only make you unhappy and your life together difficult. People fight, people say stupid, hurtful things (my husband would be the first to say that I have!), but we are commited as a couple to getting through whatever, together. And we make an effort to make sure that fights don''t turn into blowouts and will continue to do so forever, because we love one another and that''s what forever is all about.

I hope you come to the right decision for you.

 

[Mara]

honestly, once we got engaged there was never a fight where it was like 'oh well maybe you should just leave then' or where things escalated to be all crazy like that. i would have been livid had he tried to pull the ring off my finger or told me to get out. how flat out disrespectful is that. but then again i probably would not have gotten engaged to anyone who fought dirty like that or thought that it was appropriate to do that to me either once we made the committment to tie our lives together.

but that is just me...we don't fight all that often quite frankly, and if we do we get over it pretty quickly for the most part. i don't like disharmony in my home. i also am not keen on having him have to beg for my forigveness. it just sounds all so *dramatic* and i am totally not into that either. he made a mistake, you have to decide what that means, forgive and forget or move out or whatever....but he shouldn't be begging in my opinion.

get some counseling. i hear a lot of excuses in your posts about how this isn't really how he is and this and that, well then what is the problem? just forgive him and put the ring back on and move on if it's not really a big deal. if it does bother you, then scrutinize your relationship a bit more even if it might mean some harsh realities.

 

[CaptAubrey]

I have to say I''m with those who are concerned about the ring removal. Fights are a fact of life and aren''t necessarily bad (my dad and stepmom get into loud arguments on a regular basis [in front of other people, no less], and yet have been happily married for 20 years). But physically yanking the ring off your finger and ordering you out of the house tells me he has anger management issues--and that is typically something that gets worse rather than better over time.

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:27:19 PM
Author: door knob solitaire
Sweetie...this is what an engagement period is all about. Some think of it as time to order the cake and flowers...and to line up a 30 piece orchestra. But it is all about you two and how you handle everyday things that you will have to do when you promise this is forever.

Yeah, we have all had our blow ups. Mine were nuclear...atomic fallout level. But I am a tough cookie. Others would have buckled and crumbled. I don''t regret my choice-it worked fabulous for me.

I think you need to figure out what rating on the rickter scale this ring removal rates with you. Not just that event...but weigh all the other things that evolved into this. Yeah it is painful and scary to think that way...but you have to in order to come to a correct decision. No one who loves you will be mad if you decide to delay or call off. And yet those who love you would be mad to learn you felt forced to proceed as the plans were already in motion. Take the time you need to feel completely sure. Keep him concerned and carring that ring if that is what you want. It would sure be not forgotten soon.

One thing I would like to confirm is people don''t change because of a gold band, or ceremony. Or because your hair or waist line is attractive. Or because you can cook like no one else. If there are traits that annoy you now, you should ask yourself if you can live with them forever. This is the one truth and answer you can take from this discussion. A few other posters touched on it. You got a sloppy joe? Get out napkins cause he is going to remain.

Sure wish I could answer your thread topic question for you...but you and only you can do that.

I feel so sorry for what you are going through...really.

DKS

Amen DKS!

Too many one year to several month marraiges dissolve because they KNEW from the beginning, but didn''t want to call it off for various reasons. I think the better you know yourself, and the better you understand what you NEED and what you can LIVE WITH, the easier it is to determine if he has that. And if for the most part and to an accpetable level he does, know that we all make mistakes. Skippy is 100% correct, if you move on, you REALLY have to forget it. but you have to relegate it to inconsequential, which you haven''t.

Once you get into counseling things might be a bit clearer. I suggest a few sessions on your own where you both have your "gripe time", and joint ones to get a more honest assessment of where you are, what you want and if it is fixable.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.