Security Question

[LitigatorChick]

My job as a litigator may start to pose some risks at a personal level. In particular, I may be dealing with some quite unsavoury folks and I am quite certain that they will not like it. At some point, I may have a legitimate concern for the safety of myself and my family.

At that point, what is reasonable to ask of my employer for protection? A home security system? A bodyguard? Surveillance? Any experience or thoughts are appreciates.

 

[FrekeChild]

I don''t know LC, but my dad, as a divorce attorney, has received plenty of death threats, so I would start looking into something. At least self-defense classes. That''s a scary business and not something to take lightly.

 

[Kaleigh]

You know the business better than we do... I''d ask a fellow litigator, or co worker?? One that runs the risks that you do. Plus you are in Canada, so don''t know how things work there. Hoping you find the answers, and stay safe. Sounds like scary stuff.

 

[neatfreak]

Hmmm...unless you have received a direct threat or others at your firm have one I do think it's a bit much to ask for a bodyguard.

As for surveillance/home security, those things certainly seem more reasonable. I agree with Kaleigh that you should talk to other coworkers if possible and see what they have done. I think it makes sense to follow in their footsteps, especially if there is someone there you respect who has been there a lot longer than you.

I would also (personally) make your number unlisted, try to take your address off of yahoo,google, etc. Anything you can basically to keep your home/work life separate. I think that can go a long way towards making your home life easily accessible to a client ya know?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/25/2008 11:22:00 PM
Author:LitigatorChick
My job as a litigator may start to pose some risks at a personal level. In particular, I may be dealing with some quite unsavoury folks and I am quite certain that they will not like it. At some point, I may have a legitimate concern for the safety of myself and my family.

At that point, what is reasonable to ask of my employer for protection? A home security system? A bodyguard? Surveillance? Any experience or thoughts are appreciates.

LC
you need to park one of these in front of your house.
http://www.us-army-info.com/pages/pics/gallery/abrams/pages/abram15.html

 

[FrekeChild]

Lol DF.

 

[jewelerman]

Go to your employer and ask them what they do in these situations.See what they have to offer you.In my line of work as a jeweler I have had an armed security guard escort me to my car at night after work on several occations.I have also been assigned a body guard(bullet proof vests and all) when transporting a large antique jewelry collection to be secured after jewelry shows.After several jewelry store robberies in the city during the holidays my employer and the mall we worked in recommended that we keep our personal jewelry at home and they supplied security escorts to cars at night.What im saying is that your employer should have safely precautuions put in place for its employees and will be able to help with your concerns.

 

[LitigatorChick]

At my firm, this situation would be quite unusual. We do a lot of corporate work, so this type of stuff is out of the ordinary. My fraud work is kind of a niche I have developed, and I love it, and usually it is white collar crime. But this particular matter looked fairly vanilla, until my PI started filling me in. Right now, he is not worried, but has said that if things have to heat up, he will let me know.

I''ve gotten threats before, but they were not anything to worry about. But this new matter scares me. My number is not listed, but quite realisticly, I''m easy to find. I know myself how to find people, people that don''t want to be found, and it ain''t that hard. If they want to find me, they will.

Any ideas?????????

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 6/26/2008 8:59:39 AM
Author: LitigatorChick
At my firm, this situation would be quite unusual. We do a lot of corporate work, so this type of stuff is out of the ordinary. My fraud work is kind of a niche I have developed, and I love it, and usually it is white collar crime. But this particular matter looked fairly vanilla, until my PI started filling me in. Right now, he is not worried, but has said that if things have to heat up, he will let me know.


I''ve gotten threats before, but they were not anything to worry about. But this new matter scares me. My number is not listed, but quite realisticly, I''m easy to find. I know myself how to find people, people that don''t want to be found, and it ain''t that hard. If they want to find me, they will.


Any ideas?????????

If this isn''t generally a problem for your firm, then I sort of doubt they will pay for much, if any, of the services you mentioned. I know lots of people who aren''t facing death threats who have home security systems for general peace of mind, so maybe start with that so there''s a buffer between your family and anyone who might be poking around your home. Self-defense classes are a good idea, as well as getting some pepper spray (unless it''s illegal in Canada as it is here in the UK) to carry with you in case you are confronted on the street.

I don''t know if you were thinking it, but I would not recommend buying a gun for self-defense if you have a small child who could accidentally find it (even if you think it''s stored somewhere safe). I''ve read WAY too many stories of horrible accidents like that to ever feel comfortable with the idea. Again, I''m unfamiliar with Canadian law, so I don''t know if that''s even an option, but I think it could potentially do more harm than good so I''d say not to do it.

 

[LitigatorChick]

Date: 6/26/2008 9:09:56 AM
Author: gwendolyn

Date: 6/26/2008 8:59:39 AM
Author: LitigatorChick
At my firm, this situation would be quite unusual. We do a lot of corporate work, so this type of stuff is out of the ordinary. My fraud work is kind of a niche I have developed, and I love it, and usually it is white collar crime. But this particular matter looked fairly vanilla, until my PI started filling me in. Right now, he is not worried, but has said that if things have to heat up, he will let me know.


I''ve gotten threats before, but they were not anything to worry about. But this new matter scares me. My number is not listed, but quite realisticly, I''m easy to find. I know myself how to find people, people that don''t want to be found, and it ain''t that hard. If they want to find me, they will.


Any ideas?????????

If this isn''t generally a problem for your firm, then I sort of doubt they will pay for much, if any, of the services you mentioned. I know lots of people who aren''t facing death threats who have home security systems for general peace of mind, so maybe start with that so there''s a buffer between your family and anyone who might be poking around your home. Self-defense classes are a good idea, as well as getting some pepper spray (unless it''s illegal in Canada as it is here in the UK) to carry with you in case you are confronted on the street.

I don''t know if you were thinking it, but I would not recommend buying a gun for self-defense if you have a small child who could accidentally find it (even if you think it''s stored somewhere safe). I''ve read WAY too many stories of horrible accidents like that to ever feel comfortable with the idea. Again, I''m unfamiliar with Canadian law, so I don''t know if that''s even an option, but I think it could potentially do more harm than good so I''d say not to do it.

Thanks Gwen. My firm is very generous, and the managing partner works closely with me. If our PI says I need to worry, they will do something. I''ve already raised the issue, and they were responsive. It is just the question of what I ask for.

Self defence - these people are not the type that I could fight off. At all.
Gun - yeesh, no. Guns aren''t very common in Canada (unless hunting), and I''m entirely anti-gun. No guns. ever ever ever.
Home security - seems pretty lame to me.

 

[Bia]

The father of a family I used to nanny for had this problem. He was working on a criminal case for over two years and received severe death threats towards the end. Since he was a prosecuter, and worked for the state (MA) its a bit different, but he told me many firms are usually very good about working with you in terms of protection--something they do not take lightly. Whatever would make you more comfortable, whether you need some type of weapon (obviously not a gun, since you don''t feel comfortable) or maybe a new gadget they have available for your person (a vest of some sort), home and vehicle--those techie types are always coming out with new things. I guess the best thing you can do right now is let your supervisors know at some point you may have to really worry and you hope they will support whatever needs you and your family may have.

If this case is worrying you a great deal, have you maybe considered its not worth it, and you might want drop it in someone else''s hands, especially since you have a small child at home?

 

[pixley]

My neighbour across the street is a criminal prosecutor in the BC and his employer just paid to install a high tech security system at his home following some recent threats he received.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

LitChick~

I agree that a gun is not a good option, especially for anyone who has a small child. However, the self defense classes and a home security system couldn''t hurt. They may not be enough, but at least they would be a step in the right direction. Also, do you have a dog, or have you considered getting one? We have three (one black lab mix, one pit bull mix, and one Great Dane), and we actually get a discount on our homeowners insurance because they qualify as a "Type 2 Alarm"! LOL!

Seriously, if you are considering getting a dog, I would recommend a Dane (or maybe even two or three). They are wonderful with children, and they''re very friendly to your friends/guests. My Dane, Caesar, is very protective and I have no doubt that he''d give any intruder a run for their money. Most Danes weigh about 150 pounds and they are INTIMIDATING to strangers!!!

For what it''s worth, I feel for you . . . I''m a paralegal at a small law firm, and I work with a lot of litigation, criminal and family law clients. Some of those people are not always in the most stable frame of mind, so I''ve sometimes been a little worried in the past. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and stay safe!

 

[absolut_blonde]

Date: 6/26/2008 9:23:22 AM
Author: LitigatorChick

Date: 6/26/2008 9:09:56 AM
Author: gwendolyn

Date: 6/26/2008 8:59:39 AM
Author: LitigatorChick
At my firm, this situation would be quite unusual. We do a lot of corporate work, so this type of stuff is out of the ordinary. My fraud work is kind of a niche I have developed, and I love it, and usually it is white collar crime. But this particular matter looked fairly vanilla, until my PI started filling me in. Right now, he is not worried, but has said that if things have to heat up, he will let me know.


I''ve gotten threats before, but they were not anything to worry about. But this new matter scares me. My number is not listed, but quite realisticly, I''m easy to find. I know myself how to find people, people that don''t want to be found, and it ain''t that hard. If they want to find me, they will.


Any ideas?????????

If this isn''t generally a problem for your firm, then I sort of doubt they will pay for much, if any, of the services you mentioned. I know lots of people who aren''t facing death threats who have home security systems for general peace of mind, so maybe start with that so there''s a buffer between your family and anyone who might be poking around your home. Self-defense classes are a good idea, as well as getting some pepper spray (unless it''s illegal in Canada as it is here in the UK) to carry with you in case you are confronted on the street.

I don''t know if you were thinking it, but I would not recommend buying a gun for self-defense if you have a small child who could accidentally find it (even if you think it''s stored somewhere safe). I''ve read WAY too many stories of horrible accidents like that to ever feel comfortable with the idea. Again, I''m unfamiliar with Canadian law, so I don''t know if that''s even an option, but I think it could potentially do more harm than good so I''d say not to do it.

Thanks Gwen. My firm is very generous, and the managing partner works closely with me. If our PI says I need to worry, they will do something. I''ve already raised the issue, and they were responsive. It is just the question of what I ask for.

Self defence - these people are not the type that I could fight off. At all.
Gun - yeesh, no. Guns aren''t very common in Canada (unless hunting), and I''m entirely anti-gun. No guns. ever ever ever.
Home security - seems pretty lame to me.

A security system may not solve the issue, but I think a good one can provide SOME peace of mind.

For one, if nothing else then you will at least be alerted if someone were to break in (our system has alarms in the screens and glass-break detectors, if anyone cuts the phone line the company is automatically alerted, etc; it''s never failed and if anything has had a few false alarms). Also, our system is really, REALLY loud. Ear piercingly so. Which again, may or may not help but it might scare someone off as it does draw attention. Finally, our system has a number of panic buttons that you can hit for fire/police/ambulance so the company knows who to send.

We also have a camera at the front door so you can see who''s ringing the doorbell and what they are doing.

 

[smitcompton]

Dear LC,
If a situation arises where you feel endangerd, my first concern would be your children. I think you need to decide where they could go to be safe, Maybe a sister in Florida, but no public discussion of these arrangements. Keep them secret. They are to be used for emergency only.
I would certainly get a good security system. I myself would get a taser gun. If this emergency occurs there are security firms that employ ex-policemen that could watch your home at night.

It''s good that you are thinking ahead. You do need a plan.

Sincerely,
Annette

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I grew up with lawyers and here is what I can tell you.
If you are dealing with organizations, your probably fine. When dealing with individuals who are losing everything, be careful. My dad used to work as an ADA just outside of Chicago in the 70s and had to deal with a lot of mob bodies. He left, but his friend stayed for a long time before becoming a divorce attorney. He said it was much more frightening to do divorces. Whereas the mob could see it would be more trouble than it was worth to take on a DA, people who feel like they are losing everything tend not to be terribly rational. My dad''s friend said he got more death threats and they were more credible after he stopped prosocuting the mob.

 

[crown1]

Date: 6/26/2008 8:59:39 AM
Author: LitigatorChick
At my firm, this situation would be quite unusual. We do a lot of corporate work, so this type of stuff is out of the ordinary. My fraud work is kind of a niche I have developed, and I love it, and usually it is white collar crime. But this particular matter looked fairly vanilla, until my PI started filling me in. Right now, he is not worried, but has said that if things have to heat up, he will let me know.


I''ve gotten threats before, but they were not anything to worry about. But this new matter scares me. My number is not listed, but quite realisticly, I''m easy to find. I know myself how to find people, people that don''t want to be found, and it ain''t that hard. If they want to find me, they will.


Any ideas?????????

i totally agree that anybody can be found. protect your son. if you are in danger you should not have him with you when he could be in danger also. i would start by removing his picture on the net and any pictures in the office. this may not be that serious but you have asked and i think he should be low profile for his protection.

 

[2Artists]

I can second that people like to go after lawyers sometimes. So here are some thoughts that may or may not work for you. The first thing I would make sure of is to be tapped into that gut feeling you know- that little inner voice. Listen to it and stay in touch with it at all times. If something strikes you as at all strange pay attention. Never ever discount it. When it comes to safety better to come off as rude than sorry. And that is coming from a person who is a big fan of the polite. So follow those instincts.

There are also a number of good books and resources on personal safety. It is an area we can all always be striving to improve on. As for self defense I have taken self defense and martial arts and no I don't feel like I am going to go all Buffy the Vampire Slayer on everyone but I will say knowing that I have that under my belt gives me more of a sense of being centered and calm and I also feel that I carry myself differently after taking the classes too. I am a massive fan of self defense classes for adults and children alike. Plus kidlets look adorable in their karate uniforms to boot. In my opinion there are many things a nice girl should know how to do in life. Punching blocking and kicking skillfully are some of them. If one hates the thought of going to a class than know that individuals are available to train with too.

Have a security expert(legit)come to your house. Home security systems aren't that bad to deal with at all. This sounds funny to say but make sure to double check that none of your phone lines are bugged. Don't feel silly about taking all the precautions that you can. You and your family are so worth it.

female half 2Artists

 

[lyra]

At one time we had a serious threat against us for a time. I definitely felt better with the home security system we had. It''s not perfect, but it''s something that can be tailored to fit your needs. You can do video for your door so you can screen that area too. It''s a good start, and something that you''ll benefit from after this particular threat is dealt with.

I don''t know what''s allowed for personal safety in your province. Pepper spray? I know it''s not allowed lots of places.

Sorry you''re going through this stress! You should get danger pay!

 

[miraclesrule]

I am all for a good home security system and an active, alert security consciousness. Your best radar is your instinct.

Some people think that home security systems are lame, and some are, but some aren''t and have a lot of advanced surveillance features. Other recommendations such as escorts can be warranted if your case is likely to provoke ill intent. I actually was in the same boat once, and I didn''t think for a moment I was paranoid. I was vigilant in my sense were heightened in order for me to be able to sense any danger.

And a self defense course is prudent. It not only imparts valuable skills but builds confidence.

And if you feel threatened to the point that it is affecting your quality of life, I say the work isn''t worth it. I have actually packed up and moved me and my daughter to a different living space when I received news that a person who was sent to jail was trying to get back at the person he attacked, who happened to have been the father of my daughter. This person was reportedly threatening to get back at him by getting at his daughter. Her father had apparently already left the state to stay with his sister.

Since I didn''t know any of the people and hadn''t seen my daughter''s father in years at that time, I wasn''t taking any chances. I gave my notice to the landlord and was gone within the month. Credible or not, because i didn''t have a point of reference on the validity of the threat, I bailed quickly.

So trust your gut. You know who you are dealing with and what they may be capable of doing and what''s at stake for them. I just know you and your PI working together will be able to protect you.
It does sound like you are working on an interesting case though. It''s hard for me not to want to know more, but I know you can''t divulge anything...darn it.

 

[LitigatorChick]

I think I''ll look into a home security system. I trust my investigator a lot (a ex-mountie and he has kids, so he looks after me), and he is not worried right now, but he has said he will let me know if things start heating up.

I won''t quite my case or my job or anything like that. I love my work in fraud recovery, and this is the first time I have had any real concern. This case is a really big deal for me and the firm, so if there becomes a real risk, they can pay to keep me and my family safe. That really might mean a bodyguard for me and my son (and I don''t think I am being paranoid).

 

[strmrdr]

normally I would recommend CCW but since Canada doesn't trust people with guns that is out.

Do the basics:
1: pay attention
2: vary your routine.
3: home alarm
4: car alarm
5: pepper spray and personal alarm, taser if legal.
6: stranger training for your children.
7: recording caller-id for the phone
8: neighborhood watch group
9: keep trusted people informed of where and when you will be places so someone is expecting you.

I have received death threats and had someone try and carry one out but he got scared off and moved on to someone else where he was arrested when she beat the crud out of him when he tried to jump her.

 

[perry]

Litigator:

This is a subject I have personal experience with - having had an attempt on my life, and having been stalked for years after the closing of a plant (I was the superintendent - and I lost my job too). You may have seen it in the movies: Nials in the driveway, bricks (or rocks) though the window, etc. I've lived it (long ago).

Here is my general advice:

1) Trust your instincts - or gut feeling: If you feel you are not safe or something is not right - you need to get yourself (and perhaps your family) to a safe place; or batten down the hatches and prepare for war (i.e: be in a defensible place at a minimum). I will discuss more on that later.

2) Take the suggested self defense class - but try to get one that focuss on threat assessment and alertness. Understanding the threats and being alert are your best defenses.

3) Assess the threat: Is the person (or organization) likely to only threaten you - or your family - or both? Only threaten you at work, or at home. Early AM, Late at night, etc. You may not be able to nail all of this down. But the more you know the better you can plan.

4) A good home alarm is helpful; but the only think it really provides is warning that someone is attempting - or has entered the house. Should a person really want to get to you they can likely go through a door or window and get to you within 30 seconds (unless you have carefully constructed reinforced doors and other house features: Normal house doors take less than 5 seconds to get through - and I've done it). An alarm gives you those precious seconds to become alert and take a defensive position (and you can call the cops from the defensive position).

5) In many cases the person will try to get to you - even if only by intimidation. You need a personal safe escape plan when you are out and about. Please pack a simple overnight kit and keep it in your car (basic toiletries, change of undies, simple set of clothing for the next day, an envelope with some cash in it). Locate several possible alternate locations where you could spend the night in remote locations from your house (perhaps friends, or hotels) - and it is probably best if these are in towns or cities other than where you live. Develop some driving routes to these places that involve back country roads (where you will absolutely know you are being followed or not). Alternately, really know the area you live in (within 3 hours driving) so that you can just hit the back roads, turn here, turn there, etc for a while knowing that eventually you will come out on a major highway that will take you to another town or city. [I once did this, just hit the country roads as I was being followed, turned here, there, etc - got good and lost (I had no idea where I really was) - I just knew that eventually I would come out on either highway 151, 19, or some other road and that I would would be able to get home (eventually) if I wanted once I hit a major highway). It worked]. In fact, you could just find a hotel after driving a couple of hours like this if needed.

I hope you never need the overnight kit - but if you do; you will be glad of it.

6) If you think your family could be threatened; then you need to develop similar plans for your family to get to safety that they can execute without your being there. Some families have pre-planned emergency gathering locations and contact points just for general emergencies. This may be as simple as you will all call Aunt May and let her know that you are safe in another location (and Aunt May can relay messages if needed).

Chances are that the above will be good enough.

7) If the threat becomes severe - you may need to hide where you live. Move the family elsewhere (and be dang careful on who you tell). Rent some small apartments for your use. Have many alternate driving routes to where you sleep at night (and even rotate where you sleep at night). I lived for years with my legal address being one of several family members - yet where I stayed was different (and I even had an agent who could pay my bills for me). I went close to a decade before I allowed my mail to come to where I lived.

Houses with specially constructed security doors and safe rooms are appropriate for severe threats as wells. The vast majority of normal residential windows and doors are totally inadequate. Expect to pay in the range of $1500 each for secure windows and $3000 minimum for a good secure door. Note that this is usually a specialty and not something that most window and door contractors handle (or if they do - they often install them wrong). Some houses can be reasonably retrofitted. You need a security consultant to look at how the house is laid out (inside and outside). In some cases you cannot really make a house very secure and you may need a different house in a different location.

9) I do not consider telephone conversations to be that secure (nor web connections). You general location (if not your specific location) can easily be traced via a web connection (in seconds; and by most anyone without violating any laws with available software. If you have to "run" for safety - do not log into your hotel web browser and connect to your "home" services. If you think the people might be sophisticated enough to tap phones (and who cares about legality); then be very carefully about how you call home to tell people you are safe (and do not tell anyone where exactly you are - be very general). Buying a cell phone at Radio Shack (or similar) where it only runs on prepaid cards and you do not have to tell them who you are or list an address is very secure. And you can buy another one as needed. This is really the most secure way to be able to contact your family if you think the phones have been compromised (and cell phone calls can relatively easily be monitored if they know the location and phone number: i.e. a family members cell phone in your home area). Perhaps some of these cell phones should be in the various emergency kits - and you would only call one of these in a security emergency (if you know your family has accessed their emergency kit separate from you).

There is probably a lot more that could be said depending on the situation. I hope that you only have to deal with the more minor variety of this issue; and do not need to worry about the more severe and electronic surveillance.

Something else to know. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. These threats rarely last for more than a few years, and at a future time most people can relax a bit and downgrade. I do not live in the most secure house anymore (but it is more secure than some locations I have lived - and can be upgraded substantially if needed: I have done some improvements). When I finally bought a house potential security was considered; as well as potential flooding (no water in the basement with the recent floods); fire department location, etc. I bought the best house I could at the time (actually, I would not have purchased a house in my name at all - it creates a record of where I live). I am sure that if I had been still under active stalking I would have purchased a completely different house.

I am also more personally alert than my neighbors on many issues - and am in better position to respond to a home intrusion than many.

Hope this helps,

Perry

 

[Rhea]

I''ve only reported to the police and asked for them to watch my house when I received a death threat. I knew the person owned a fire arm, had a drug habit, and a fairly long criminal history. Other death threats I haven''t taken as seriously.

 

[miraclesrule]

Sheesh Perry, I''m sorry to hear about your past experiences, but I just have to say you are one smart "dude".

LitChick, I don''t blame you for wanting to stay on the job. I was a Sr. Special Investigations Examiner but was aka "The Fraud Broad". Feel free to call yourself one too, if it makes you smile. It made me laugh when someone bestowed that name on me.

I completely understand why you would never want to give it up. It''s fascinating and rewarding work.
You Go Girl...

And consider all the great advice...especially from strm and perry...they are spot on.