Sapphires - Attempts 2, 3, and 4 - Pic Overload!!!

[FrekeChild]

What kind of budget are you thinking of for a stone if you were to commission a cutter to do the light stepcut?

 

[Marina87]

I love the pear shapes. Very nice sapphires!

 

[endless_summer]

What kind of budget are you thinking of for a stone if you were to commission a cutter to do the light stepcut?

I'm not sure - I really have to ask to find out about what it would cost. I would hope between 3 and 4k for the finished stone, but if it were more, I would just save up appropriately and wait until I were in a position to move forward with it.

 

[endless_summer]

I love the pear shapes. Very nice sapphires!

Thank you - the hard part is picking!

 

[endless_summer]

So…I think I'm leaning towards the yellow pear for a couple of reasons.

Even though I like the step cut, it looks very pretty at times, and the window is closable, it goes completely gray too often, and I think closing the back with more gray would just enhance it.

The blue pear, while I really love the deep violetish color, it is literally twice as expensive as the yellow, and in bright sunlight, the stripes/color-banding/inclusions (not sure what it is) really light up, almost as if the stone is scratched or something even though its not. The effect is minimized with something behind the stone (to prevent the windowing - I can see my finger through the stripes in sunlight), but when considering that we're talking 1,500/carat + setting, I think that's a hard one for me to swallow. If my expectations are too high on this one, someone chime in and put them in perspective. For less money, I would be happy to have it, but…for me, that is a substantial amount of money, and I wouldn't want to wish that I had waited and selected something else instead down the road.

The yellow one, I think I'm going to take it in to see what a jeweler (used to work for GIA) that I trust thinks first about the color (I do see a hint of lime once in a while, wonder if that's just the nature of yellow sapphires), whether closing the back with gold will help the window and further enhance the yellow, and whether the ring is set at a fair price. At the same time, I want to get a sense of what making a similar setting would cost, so I can budget for picking out a stone and then having a ring made if that is ultimately the road that would be the best choice.

How does that sound?

 

[FrekeChild]

Yellow it is!

Were these sold to you as unheated, heated or otherwise treated? I would probably make the sale contingent on lab reports coming back clean.

does it look similar to the color of any of these?

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_yellow_orange.html

 

[endless_summer]

Yellow it is!

Were these sold to you as unheated, heated or otherwise treated? I would probably make the sale contingent on lab reports coming back clean.

does it look similar to the color of any of these?

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_yellow_orange.html

It was sold as heated, so I don't need a lab report to confirm it - the color to me looks a slightly darker/more golden yellow than the ones on gem fix (but I do really like some of the lighter yellow ones on that sight; I'm just in the market for a different shape) - it's just every once in a while I can see the hint of green that I think maybe Chrono could see. I just want to be sure to get a second opinion regarding fair price, color, and whether the window would be helped with yellow gold. It would drive me nuts to see right through the table all of the time, but I think the test with the candy minimized how noticeable it was to a certain degree. That said, I think it's very pretty and an awesome size (I can't imagine wearing anything larger), so if it checks out - awesome - new ring! And, if not, attempt 5 probably sometime well after the holidays it is

 

[endless_summer]

What kind of budget are you thinking of for a stone if you were to commission a cutter to do the light stepcut?

For the light step cut, I was thinking somewhere around 4k - definitely not going for unheated, but I think somewhere between 1k and $1,300 per carat should be in the ballpark - I'd budget for 1k more though just in case. Who knows - it could turn out to be less, which would just be a pleasant surprise, but I'd like something in the realm of 8mm x 8mm, which would put the weight somewhere around 3.5 carats. I've start to explore that option (very serious about it), as well as yellow pear in case this one ultimately doesn't work out, but it'd be nice if it does. The person I want to take to is very conservative and also very honest about his opinions, so I trust his judgement.

Does somewhere in the realm of 4k sound like it might be in the ballpark? (The current yellow pear ring is between 3 and 4, so I'd be curious if that sounds fair too - I've just seen so much difference in price, it's very difficult for me to nail down.)

 

[endless_summer]

What kind of budget are you thinking of for a stone if you were to commission a cutter to do the light stepcut?

For the light step cut, I was thinking somewhere around 4k - definitely not going for unheated, but I think somewhere between 1k and $1,300 per carat should be in the ballpark - I'd budget for 1k more though just in case. Who knows - it could turn out to be less, which would just be a pleasant surprise, but I'd like something in the realm of 8mm x 8mm, which would put the weight somewhere around 3.5 carats. I've start to explore that option (very serious about it), as well as yellow pear in case this one ultimately doesn't work out, but it'd be nice if it does. The person I want to take to is very conservative and also very honest about his opinions, so I trust his judgement.

Does somewhere in the realm of 4k sound like it might be in the ballpark? (The current yellow pear ring is between 3 and 4, so I'd be curious if that sounds fair too - I've just seen so much difference in price, it's very difficult for me to nail down.)

oops - sorry FrekeChild, I had forgotten that I had already responded to you, but this response it a little more well thought out

 

[FrekeChild]

Yellow it is!

Were these sold to you as unheated, heated or otherwise treated? I would probably make the sale contingent on lab reports coming back clean.

does it look similar to the color of any of these?

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_yellow_orange.html

It was sold as heated, so I don't need a lab report to confirm it - the color to me looks a slightly darker/more golden yellow than the ones on gem fix (but I do really like some of the lighter yellow ones on that sight; I'm just in the market for a different shape) - it's just every once in a while I can see the hint of green that I think maybe Chrono could see. I just want to be sure to get a second opinion regarding fair price, color, and whether the window would be helped with yellow gold. It would drive me nuts to see right through the table all of the time, but I think the test with the candy minimized how noticeable it was to a certain degree. That said, I think it's very pretty and an awesome size (I can't imagine wearing anything larger), so if it checks out - awesome - new ring! And, if not, attempt 5 probably sometime well after the holidays it is

I'm not experienced in sapphire treatment as other people are, but from my time on PS, I've learned to live by the "trust, but verify" mantra. So I'd probably send it to AGL and get them to test them to verify that it is only heated, if you are spending a large amount. BE treated and synthetic sapphires are extremely cheap, while unheated sapphires are the most expensive and heated sapphires only see a slight reduction in price. I'm probably being overly sensitive about it, but I wouldn't want anyone to think they are buying one thing and ending up with another.

Can you share the price ranges for these?

 

[endless_summer]

Yellow it is!

Were these sold to you as unheated, heated or otherwise treated? I would probably make the sale contingent on lab reports coming back clean.

does it look similar to the color of any of these?

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_yellow_orange.html

It was sold as heated, so I don't need a lab report to confirm it - the color to me looks a slightly darker/more golden yellow than the ones on gem fix (but I do really like some of the lighter yellow ones on that sight; I'm just in the market for a different shape) - it's just every once in a while I can see the hint of green that I think maybe Chrono could see. I just want to be sure to get a second opinion regarding fair price, color, and whether the window would be helped with yellow gold. It would drive me nuts to see right through the table all of the time, but I think the test with the candy minimized how noticeable it was to a certain degree. That said, I think it's very pretty and an awesome size (I can't imagine wearing anything larger), so if it checks out - awesome - new ring! And, if not, attempt 5 probably sometime well after the holidays it is

I'm not experienced in sapphire treatment as other people are, but from my time on PS, I've learned to live by the "trust, but verify" mantra. So I'd probably send it to AGL and get them to test them to verify that it is only heated, if you are spending a large amount. BE treated and synthetic sapphires are extremely cheap, while unheated sapphires are the most expensive and heated sapphires only see a slight reduction in price. I'm probably being overly sensitive about it, but I wouldn't want anyone to think they are buying one thing and ending up with another.

Can you share the price ranges for these?

yes, the yellow pear ring is at 3,500, and the blue pear at about 7. I do agree with trust but verify - I just know unsetting the stone takes away the return policy, but the person that I'd like to see the yellow one can test whether something is synthetic, and I can ask about beryllium as well (though I'm thinking that probably isn't something that he can test). I'm going to bring the blue pear too just because I want to understand what it is that makes the stripes across the top in the sunlight, so I can know what to it and be able to avoid it in the future, as much as I do really like the color of that one. We'll see. I do understand though that beryllium significantly reduces price, so maybe the best policy is to assume beryllium and then try to figure out what the price should be, or at least be aware of the difference in those two price points.

 

[pregcurious]

AGL will test the stone while it is mounted.

Unless you are absolutely in love with one of them, I would sent them all back. It's a lot of money to not be completely in love with a stone. I think it's healthy enough budget to get a stone that is not windowed, with a color you love.

 

[chrono]

GIA and AGL will test mounted stones but there is an added fee, which if you go this route, should not negate any warranties. If sending the stone to the lab, I would have the vendor do this rather than you do it, thus the vendor bears the risk of loss and damage instead of you since the sale will be contingent on it not being diffused, which many yellow sapphires are these days.

You have a reasonable budget where you should not have to settle or have workarounds in order to love the stone. I'm with Pregcurious that $3500 is a lot of money and you can get a less windowed stone if you aren't in a rush.

 

[endless_summer]

Pregcurious & Chrono,

I do appreciate your thoughts regarding the budget - I am not in a rush in any way. And, though I like aspects of each of the stones and rings, I do feel like, to a certain extent, that I've been "trying to make them work." Part of my wanting to find a way to minimize the aspects that I don't like in the stones, in the case of the yellow - the windowing, was that I just didn't know how far 3,500 for a yellow stone should get me in terms of quality of color, cut, and lastly size. I don't need perfection in clarity, just not a glaring inclusion that's noticeable at 2 to 3 foot distance. I'll check around some more, but if you guys think that the stone is replicable with less windowing for around the same amount, then absolutely I'd want to skip the work-around. Even if the window is less apparent with something behind it, the middle of the stone does go pretty 'dead' in some lights, as opposed to around the crown where it doesn't window.

At this point, I do feel like the step cut is sort of a holy grail that I will need to work with someone to create with me, since I do have a particular color range and size in mind, and I do want a well-cut stone, as opposed to the many that I've looked at whether in photographs, videos, or the two in person that I've presented window quite alot. Granted the second one presented here is better than the first, but I have spent quite a bit of time trying to convince myself that I love that one, when in fact, I really just love the idea of that one.

I will certainly update with whatever decision I end up making, but I have a feeling there may be an attempt 5 on the yellow and an attempt 6 for the blue at some point after the holidays

You guys and everyone on here really are great - setting aside the less-than-ideal stones that you've helped me understand what it is that bothers me about them and asking the right questions to make sure that I'd be happy in the long term with them, I'm sure that you have helped to both educate and prevent many other potential less-than-ideal purchases for other folks as well.

 

[carmen1]

What kind of budget are you thinking of for a stone if you were to commission a cutter to do the light stepcut?

For the light step cut, I was thinking somewhere around 4k - definitely not going for unheated, but I think somewhere between 1k and $1,300 per carat should be in the ballpark - I'd budget for 1k more though just in case. Who knows - it could turn out to be less, which would just be a pleasant surprise, but I'd like something in the realm of 8mm x 8mm, which would put the weight somewhere around 3.5 carats. I've start to explore that option (very serious about it), as well as yellow pear in case this one ultimately doesn't work out, but it'd be nice if it does. The person I want to take to is very conservative and also very honest about his opinions, so I trust his judgement.

Does somewhere in the realm of 4k sound like it might be in the ballpark? (The current yellow pear ring is between 3 and 4, so I'd be curious if that sounds fair too - I've just seen so much difference in price, it's very difficult for me to nail down.)

Jeff Davies posted this lilac sapphire this morning and I immediately thought of your search! Its a bit smaller than you were looking for at 7x7 and 2.45 cts, but it is only $985 shipped so maybe you'd be willing to compromise on size?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6q3xn2FrY4

 

[endless_summer]

What kind of budget are you thinking of for a stone if you were to commission a cutter to do the light stepcut?

For the light step cut, I was thinking somewhere around 4k - definitely not going for unheated, but I think somewhere between 1k and $1,300 per carat should be in the ballpark - I'd budget for 1k more though just in case. Who knows - it could turn out to be less, which would just be a pleasant surprise, but I'd like something in the realm of 8mm x 8mm, which would put the weight somewhere around 3.5 carats. I've start to explore that option (very serious about it), as well as yellow pear in case this one ultimately doesn't work out, but it'd be nice if it does. The person I want to take to is very conservative and also very honest about his opinions, so I trust his judgement.

Does somewhere in the realm of 4k sound like it might be in the ballpark? (The current yellow pear ring is between 3 and 4, so I'd be curious if that sounds fair too - I've just seen so much difference in price, it's very difficult for me to nail down.)

Jeff Davies posted this lilac sapphire this morning and I immediately thought of your search! Its a bit smaller than you were looking for at 7x7 and 2.45 cts, but it is only $985 shipped so maybe you'd be willing to compromise on size?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6q3xn2FrY4

That is quite a beautiful stone! I'm looking for something more on the bluish side, but I'm sure that someone will be very happy with that one - great find!!!

 

[endless_summer]

So, with much delay over the holiday - here is what I decided to do!

I couldn't part with the yellow sapphire - I love, love the color and realized that what I thought was a bit of a green tint at times was shadow from the setting, which I can't really do anything about, and the stone is so sunny most of the time, who cares! It will not stay as-is - the vendor actually came down in price enough for me to play make-it-work and have it be worth it - YAY!!! I had asked a cutter about the yellow, and he said it was very hard to come across that shade of yellow. Talked to the jeweler/former GIA person and he said it was a great value and that most of the yellow sapphires are bit more peachy or have other undertones as opposed to what I'd call 'big bird yellow.' Looked more and more and couldn't find any other stones that I really liked the color of as much - asked another cutter, and all-in considering the setting, the ring would have been as much as twice as much, so make-it-work it is

So - the ring gets to go for potential re-cut to fix the window. The cutter I've corresponded with regarding it seems fairly confident that he can fix the windowing and still retain a fair amount of weight and face-up size. So, I'm going to send it off, so he can unset it, see it in person, and then give me a better sense as to how much face-up size and weight I'll lose before actually cutting it (checking with the jeweler as to how much we can lose before we'd have to rebuild the entire ring's crown). If not so much - AWESOME - it's possible he may only have to re-cut the pavilion, in which case, I'm beyond thrilled. Of course, before and after photos plus much praise to the cutter will be in order with a separate thread - *fingers crossed* - hoping this is the case.

Make-it-work back-up plan - if it looks like I'm going to lose a bunch of face-up size (I would love for the stone to stay at a length hovering around or over 10mm), then the ring will come back to me, and we'll back it with yellow gold. It's not perfect, but I've worn it around the house enough with the yellow behind it, that even if it's not ideal light return under the table, I still think the color and size are striking enough to make up for it.

And, I got in touch with Jeff White regarding a step cut sapphire - sooooooooo excited!!! He doesn't have a piece of rough that would fit both what I'd like in color and suite the square step cut, but when he does, that will be the next project! Saving by not starting from scratch on the yellow gives me more leeway budget-wise on the step-cut, so I think all of the above is a nice win-win all around

 

[chrono]

I'm looking forward to the lapidary's assessment of the yellow sapphire. It would be great if the window can be lessened without losing too much face up weight. Do you mind sharing the name of the lapidary you are working with? If you are not comfortable with sharing his name now, once the recut is done is appreciated too.

 

[endless_summer]

I'm looking forward to the lapidary's assessment of the yellow sapphire. It would be great if the window can be lessened without losing too much face up weight. Do you mind sharing the name of the lapidary you are working with? If you are not comfortable with sharing his name now, once the recut is done is appreciated too.

Jerry from Gemart Services was recommended from another thread, so I sent him the stone specs, a video, and multiple pictures, so he could get a sense of what he would be working with. He has been super patient with me in answering all of questions about re-cutting the stone, risks, whether the window can be closed, and the range of potential face-up size/carat weight loss based on the information that he had. He strikes me as very knowledgeable and helpful - and, his re-cut/repair tab had a pic of a pear with the same window as mine that he re-cut and fixed the window beautifully without changing the face-up size much at all. Apparently, a lot of native cuts leave more in the belly to work with than the depth % alone would necessarily suggest, depending on the apportionment between the pavillion and the crown, so here's to hoping there's enough in the pavillion that re-cutting the crown won't be necessary (best outcome possible!).

Either way, he has been great and made me feel very comfortable sending the ring off to him, and he said that he would assess the stone out of the setting and let me know how much face-up size and weight likely will be lost before actually cutting the stone, so that if it's beyond what I'm comfortable with, then he can put the stone and setting in the return shipping box I'll be sending with the ring and ship it back (I wanted to make things as easy on him and on me as possible). So, we'll see! Oh - if anyone is curious, Gemart Services's rates are very, very reasonable.

Hopefully, I get the ring to the jeweler, so he can tell me how much we can lose before having to re-build the crown today and the ring can go out tomorrow

 

[chrono]

You are in good hands with Jerry. He isn't only very professional but reasonably priced and realistic as to what to expect. He just completed a recut for me. He advised that the remaining 4 stones will not see much improvement, hence he left them untouched.

 

[carmen1]

Glad that you found a sapphire you love and I hope the recut does the trick, but if not sometimes a small window can be closed without a full cup/backing on the stone. I have a stone at home with a decent sized window, and when I plot it into a basic prong setting the window closes up just from metal that is under the center of the stone - just wanted to throw that out there in case the window doesn't close you may want to play around with other settings to see if the window closes without needing to be completely backed.

Also, wanted to ask whether you had already sent it to AGL for BE testing, or if you were planning to do so before it is set?

 

[endless_summer]

You are in good hands with Jerry. He isn't only very professional but reasonably priced and realistic as to what to expect. He just completed a recut for me. He advised that the remaining 4 stones will not see much improvement, hence he left them untouched.

Yes - I am very happy to have found him - he has been quite the saint corresponding with me and seem fairly certain that he can fix the window; he's even thought out how much we can compromise away from 42 degrees to still fix the window and save face-up, even though the light performance won't be absolutely perfect, which I am completely comfortable with. Super great, and I'm really glad that he's willing to look at it, assess it first, and let me know what he thinks before cutting, which is absolutely ideal for me, since I'm east coast side and can't pop in anywhere to talk to him. I'm glad to hear that you've had good experiences with him, as I think you are super-honest in all of your opinions, which I appreciate greatly!

 

[endless_summer]

Glad that you found a sapphire you love and I hope the recut does the trick, but if not sometimes a small window can be closed without a full cup/backing on the stone. I have a stone at home with a decent sized window, and when I plot it into a basic prong setting the window closes up just from metal that is under the center of the stone - just wanted to throw that out there in case the window doesn't close you may want to play around with other settings to see if the window closes without needing to be completely backed.

Also, wanted to ask whether you had already sent it to AGL for BE testing, or if you were planning to do so before it is set?

Absolutely! Just closing the hole under the center stone in the shank is the back-up plan, and I'm sure that I will still be happy with it, even if it is a work-around. I really just love the color and wanted to keep the stone for that alone - the size being awesome is a pretty nice bonus too! I have been wearing the ring around just the house in the mornings and evenings with and without that yellow test backing, and I'm even getting used to the way the stone looks without any fix at all, so everything else is bonus

Haven't sent it off to AGL for BE testing because I'd keep the stone either way at this point (I've already received a generous reduction in price, not once but twice), and the vendor I worked with had independent paper work that disclosed the heat that the stone had and provides paperwork that discloses diffusion etc. in other stones, so I'm pretty comfortable. I know it's a bit of a head in the sand approach, but I don't want to test and have a potential result take away the enjoyment that I'd get out of the ring once it's finished, if that makes any sense? (I'm sure someone wants to clobber me, and rightly so, I'd have the same reaction, but it was a good value BE or no BE for me, at least - when I go blue one day, which will be more expensive, absolutely that baby is getting sent off!)

 

[endless_summer]

Sooooooo excited! I just set up a package concierge service to receive the stone after it goes off to Jerry to avoid the stone walking out of my building, so now I can ship it off during my lunch break USPS insured, signature required - I'm thrilled and am both nervous/jumping out of my skin to see what he thinks is feasible with the stone in hand - I'm probably hoping for him to work a little Christmas miracle if he can even come close to closing the window in the way that his pre & post re-cut pics of another pear that he worked on turned out, but *fingers crossed*!

As a sidenote - pre-PS, I would have never ever been such a cut nut for lack of better words or really gotten into stones, and I'm so happy that I did (makes my FI slightly nervous, but I've promised that after this yellow stone and one day when I finally can find the holy grail light/medium-light violet blue step cut sapphire - CS's all the way, just not the big: three sapphire, emerald, rubies). Despite what a roller-coaster this particular yellow sapphire has been, it's also been quite a lot of fun learning and coming up with a plan and a back-up plan to 'make-it-work' thanks to all of you! Hopefully, I can execute it without too much of a hitch

 

[endless_summer]

It's been re-cut! Jerry was able to re-cut the pavilion and save the face-up size, so I am thrilled! I have no idea how it turned out, but he's pleased, so I have no doubt that I'll be pleased and am now very excited to receive the stone back. Though I haven't seen it yet, I just have to say that Jerry has been a joy to work with, and if anyone ever considers taking on a similar project, I would recommend him on the basis of his honesty with respect to expectations, responsiveness, and all around just being a great person to work with, especially for someone like me who had no prior experience with a project like this. I'm sure that I'll be singing his praises in a new thread with pre- and post-pics when the stone comes back home!