Sapphire so much harder than diamonds

[Matt21]

Dear All,
10th anniversary coming up and looking at sapphire rings (although I've just realised she should really be waiting until our 45th!)
Finding it much more difficult than the last purchase - diamond engagement ring (with a little support from PS).
Initially thought I could get a natural untreated/heated, high quality ~1.2-1.5 ct (I think for gems should be mm) vivid blue stone in a setting for about $1000-1500
This seems unrealistic.
I don't want to buy something that doesn't meet these standard. As you can see I only do this infrequently!
So back to the drawing board and I think $2000-3000 (including VAT/duty etc if overseas purchase to UK).
In terms of style I really like this design but blue stone rather than teal (I love the teal but not me wearing it). This is a 2.2 ct listed at $5100.
Would this type of setting darken the colour significantly? I have read that highly saturated blues can appear dark/even black indoors.
There doesn't appear to be many UK option.
Natural Sapphire Company has variable reviews here and don't offer a similar setting.
Wouldn't really know where to start with a custom setting if I buy a loose stone but this may be better option.
I don't have much experience to be confident about windows/zoning etc based on pictures unless it is glaringly obvious.
Currently working through the other recommended vendors listed on the forum but any advice/thoughts welcome.
Matt

 

[LD]

Matt I’m in the UK. There’s a company in Birmingham with the horrible name of Diamond Geezers but they’ve made quite a few settings for me with CAD approval before going ahead. If you’re near a jewellery quarter there are also jewellers that will make bespoke rings. In terms of buying gemstones, there are a few sellers in the UK but I’ve found I very rarely purchase here and typically buy from all over the world.

 

[seaurchin]

Just a thought but since you mention budget, you could also get a beautiful precision cut lab sapphire made to your specifications for somewhere around $100 per carat. If you don't know, they are made up of the same substance as the mined sapphires. (I'm currently working on an alternate e-ring design for a 5 carat light pink lab sapphire).

My lab sapphire is from Finewater Gems (my third lab sapphire from him) and I'm having the ring made by David Klass Jewelry (my fourth piece made by him). So I can definitely recommend those two and you could probably get the whole ring with some lab diamonds for somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,000 USD. I did it all by mail/phone/online but they are both in the US and I have no idea how shipping to the UK works.

Also, happy anniversary!

P.S. Also, if you don't know, sapphires tend to be smaller per carat than diamonds so you are right to go by mm sizes. For ex., if I'm not mistaken, my 5 carat lab sapphire (and it would be the same with a mined sapphire) is about the size of a 4 carat diamond.

 

[seaurchin]

If you do have a custom ring made, what works for me is finding a ring on the internet that is similar to what I have in mind, then sending the jeweler pics of that inspiration ring, along with an explanation of whatever I want to be different from the inspiration ring.

They then make up computer drawings (CADS) of what you've presented and don't proceed to make the piece until it's drawn up to your satisfaction. If you want, you can also get a plastic copy of the ring design sent to you before you decide to give the final go-ahead. Of course you can post any questions here if you want second opinions.

Especially if the stone is costly, you'll want to be sure to get it insured before sending it to the jeweler.

ETA: Warning: It is fun. And addicting lol.

 

[seaurchin]

Another idea is a site like James Allen. You can key in your variables like color, size, shape and budget, then pick from a large variety of (mined) sapphires in that range. Even though in-person and set appearance can still vary from internet pics, you could at least see how the color of the one you choose looks compared to all the other blue sapphires on the site.

Then you can choose a setting right on the same site and have the final ring sent to you.

That would be a simpler way to do it but is a little pricey. Sorry if my suggestions are too basic; I don't know what you already know or not.

 

[seaurchin]

One more idea for getting a lovely ring while bringing the price down (if that's important to you) is to expand your search to also include other blue stones, such as indicolite tourmaline or blue spinel.

Well, that's all I have for now. Personally, I've changed my views over time and now prefer a more showy ring over a more financially valuable but less showy one, when I have to pick (and I always have to pick lol). But of course that's just individual preference. Good luck!

 

[Snowdrop13]

Have you looked at Cecile Raley on Etsy? she has a fair few sapphires available and can make the ring too. I’ve bought from her from the U.K. with no issues.

Is the $2-3000 for the stone only or the whole ring?

 

[MillieLou]

It is relatively easy to come by good quality custom settings in the UK - most major cities will have several manufacturing jewellers / goldsmiths who can reliably produce a nice setting. I can recommend a few, as can many other UK PSers. It will cost you though - anywhere from £700-£900 for a simple solitaire in 18K gold or platinum outside London (add a few hundred more for London).

A basic mass-produced 14K gold setting from somewhere like James Allen can be had for £200-£300. The quality won't be comparable but it will hold the stone just fine. However you will need to buy the stone from the company so it will limit your options. I am not aware of any UK-based shops that will offer similar stock settings at a comparable price.

So, it depends how much budget you want to allocate to the setting at this point in time.

 

[seaurchin]

Yes, I was also confused about the budget because it seemed you'd settled on 2-3k total but then the example ring you showed was over 5k?

Looking for a secondhand ring is another option.

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * A basic mass-produced 14K gold setting from somewhere like James Allen can be had for £200-£300. The quality won't be comparable but it will hold the stone just fine. However you will need to buy the stone from the company so it will limit your options. I am not aware of any UK-based shops that will offer similar stock settings at a comparable price.

So, it depends how much budget you want to allocate to the setting at this point in time.

James Allen will sell just a setting. From the FAQ page:

Frequently Asked Questions | JamesAllen.com

James Allen's Frequently Asked Questions - about us, our products, payments, insurance, return policy, shipping, and more.

www.jamesallen.com

Yes! Almost Every ring on the James Allen website is available for purchase, regardless of whether or not you purchase a center diamond from us. Many rings, however, cannot be manufactured unless we have the diamond in our possession. Tension settings, rings with diamond halos, and other unique designs fall into that category. In those instances we require that you send the diamond to our offices and charge a $100 setting fee. To order those designs, please contact our offices and we will provide you with an exact shipping and insurance quotation. For all other designs, you can complete your order through our online shopping cart. When you check out with just a setting (and not a diamond), please provide us with the exact shape and millimeter dimensions of your diamond so we can include properly sized prongs.​

Blue Nile also offers that option to its customers in the US (and I think Canada), but the FAQ page on Blue Nile UK says

Our ring settings are only available with the purchase of a centre stone.​

 

[MillieLou]

James Allen will sell just a setting. From the FAQ page:

Frequently Asked Questions | JamesAllen.com

James Allen's Frequently Asked Questions - about us, our products, payments, insurance, return policy, shipping, and more.

www.jamesallen.com

Yes! Almost Every ring on the James Allen website is available for purchase, regardless of whether or not you purchase a center diamond from us. Many rings, however, cannot be manufactured unless we have the diamond in our possession. Tension settings, rings with diamond halos, and other unique designs fall into that category. In those instances we require that you send the diamond to our offices and charge a $100 setting fee. To order those designs, please contact our offices and we will provide you with an exact shipping and insurance quotation. For all other designs, you can complete your order through our online shopping cart. When you check out with just a setting (and not a diamond), please provide us with the exact shape and millimeter dimensions of your diamond so we can include properly sized prongs.​

Blue Nile also offers that option to its customers in the US (and I think Canada), but the FAQ page on Blue Nile UK says

Our ring settings are only available with the purchase of a centre stone.​

Sadly James Allen didn't offer that for UK clients when I enquired last year (their FAQ said the same at the time - but they said only US clients at the time). They may have changed this so it's definitely worth asking!

 

[MillieLou]

Out of curiosity, I contacted James Allen again. They confirmed that they still can't set customer stones from the UK. However, interestingly, they do now have a handful of settings that are "fabrication only" meaning they can send it to you without a centre stone if you have a local jeweller who will set it for you.

Two problems with this:

- the "fabrication only" settings for a 14K white gold basic solitaire were around £650 - so getting close to what a custom setting would cost over here - this is not including the fee that a jeweller would charge for setting. So you probably wouldn't save any money. They don't offer the really cheap £200 ish settings as fabrication only.

- I don't actually know any UK jewellers who would set a stone bought elsewhere into a setting bought elsewhere. All the jewellers I've dealt with would only set stones into settings they've made. So you would want to find someone who would do it first, and it may not be easy or cheap.

 

[Bron357]

Have you looked at Ivy & Rose (based in the US). I’ve bought very happily from them and I’m in Australia.
They have a range of Art Deco style settings which are lovely.
They also have some “ready to go” rings. I particularly like the most expensive one (of course). They have others still beautiful but at a more modest price point.

 

[Matt21]

Yes, I was also confused about the budget because it seemed you'd settled on 2-3k total but then the example ring you showed was over 5k?

Looking for a secondhand ring is another option.

Thanks for all the comments. Very very helpful.
Sorry for the confusion - the example ring was an illustration of the style/design I think she would like. It is a 2ct stone and more than I think I should spend.
I did start thinking about sapphire alternatives and will certainly look into this further.
Mixed feelings about lab sapphires.........I hadn't really considered these as an alternative to a mined stone (bit of a romantic/purist perspective) but now not sure. I've had a look at the natural stone on finewater but will peruse the lab stones.
Food for thought!

 

[Matt21]

Matt I’m in the UK. There’s a company in Birmingham with the horrible name of Diamond Geezers but they’ve made quite a few settings for me with CAD approval before going ahead. If you’re near a jewellery quarter there are also jewellers that will make bespoke rings. In terms of buying gemstones, there are a few sellers in the UK but I’ve found I very rarely purchase here and typically buy from all over the world.

Thanks a lot.
Couldn't find them at first but seems like they changed their website https://www.comparethediamond.com.
"...but changed the name to ComparetheDiamond.com when the world lost its sense of irony."
Looks like a great resource so will look through.
I'm about 90 mins from Birmingham so may plan a visit.

 

[Matt21]

Have you looked at Ivy & Rose (based in the US). I’ve bought very happily from them and I’m in Australia.
They have a range of Art Deco style settings which are lovely.
They also have some “ready to go” rings. I particularly like the most expensive one (of course). They have others still beautiful but at a more modest price point.

Thank you very much.
I haven't come across this site.
Some lovely rings and the colours of the stones are beautiful.
Busy night tonight looking at all these options.

 

[Kitten35]

Try Diamonds by Lauren. He has some beautiful sapphire rings for a modest price or can make you something with a loose stone and it looks like he also has a new basic mounts. Top notch quality and awesome shop.

 

[MollyMalone]

* * *
- I don't actually know any UK jewellers who would set a stone bought elsewhere into a setting bought elsewhere. All the jewellers I've dealt with would only set stones into settings they've made. So you would want to find someone who would do it first, and it may not be easy or cheap.

I just now used the Locate A Jeweler search function on Stuller's website & see that there are UK jewelers who will order from Stuller (based in the US, a "to the trade only" wholesaler):

Stuller, Inc.

Stuller, Inc. is the #1 supplier of fine jewelry, findings, mountings, tools, packaging, diamonds and gemstones for today’s retail jeweler.

www.stuller.com

Stuller offers a wide variety of settings for rings and all kinds of jewelry that are typically moderately priced and a good value, at least here in the States (I've noticed UK prices on at least some US brands, such as shoes, are the same price in pounds as in US dollars, so end up being more expensive in the UK than here since your pound is worth more than our dollar).
Whiteflash & Brian Gavin use Stuller (or at least they used to) for some of their lower-priced settings, e.g.,

Question about Whiteflash rings and Stuller

I just purchased an engagement ring from Whiteflash last week. The ring is gorgeous and their customer service was extremely helpful. I have one small concern though that I have already emailed them about. I figured I'd come on here to ask if anyone else has run into something similar... I...

www.pricescope.com

Here's a recent thread on Stuller that you might find helpful, @Matt21 :
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-don’t-understand-how-stuller-works.266996/