same diamond at multiple online vendors

[g7adrian]

Has anyone noticed that the same diamond may appear for sale in the stock of multiple online vendors? And at different (but similar) prices too! One can use PriceScope itself to verify my assertion: just do a narrow search for a diamond, and you can get up to 6 exact copies of the same diamond specification from different vendors (carat, color, clarity, polish and symmetry grades, lab that made the certification, and diamond dimensions). It is very unlikely that there are indeed 6 diamonds with the same properties, dimensions included.

The diamonds that appear multiple times are never signature stones, that cannot belong to the inventory of multiple vendors. But it seems that the "discount" stones come from the same supplier, and the online vendors are only packaging.

I think the consumer should be educated in the specifics of the supply chain for online diamond sales. It could be that all stones that remain discounted would not make it to ''signature'' collections even if they have excellent grading. Otherwise, the supplier would place them to receive a ''brand'' premium. Or it could be that the supplier sells such volume that the discounted diamonds are simply bulk: some may be faboulous, but there was no time to inspect them (but they carry a lab report, so obviously they have been inspected!) I think the buyer of discounted diamonds would care to know which way it actually is.

 

[starfire]

Hi g7adrian,

Many (although probably not all) online vendors do not carry much inventory (if at all), and such vendors simply do drop-shipping. Without the cost of holding inventory, that is how such vendors sell at low-low prices. i.e. they simply sell based on a list, without having the diamond physically with them.

While some consumers may not care about this (since they care more about price), other consumers may feel concern that their online vendor never even saw the diamond they are selling.

Just my 2 cent's worth...

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier
Singapore

 

[kkeen15]

Your assertion is no secret (at least not among educated Internet diamond shoppers). Most diamonds for purchase online are actually from this list; some Pricescope vendors and BlueNile are exceptions. Buying a diamond from the list is just another option for you.

If you call the vendor, they will be open with you about whether they have the diamond in their possession or not. Just because a diamond is not "in house" doesn't mean it isn't gorgeous. Several people on this board bought a diamond from the list through an online vendor and were very satisfied, and rightfully so.

 

[kevinng]

Why do people go through the online vendors then? Why don't they just go to the factory and buy from them? Won't they save even more money?

 

[starfire]

Hi Kevin,

The diamond cutters are generally located in a few places including Antwerp, Israel, New York among others.

It would not make economic sense for an end-consumer to go all the way to these places to buy diamonds. In any case, they will not be entertained for legal and ethical reasons.

For example, in Antwerp it is not allowed for diamond wholesalers to sell a diamond to an individual on a retail basis, I believe.

There is a well-defined supply chain for diamonds. There are some online people that try to cut that chain short, but by end large the system works.

To go to the "factory" to purchase diamonds would be like for us in Singapore to buy a car from a car factory in Thailand and drive it 2,000km home. Even if you do that, I do not believe that the Singaporean dealerships will service it. (Or they might, but you get charged a hell of a lot of money).

I am oversimplifying, but you get my point...

To oversimplify it further, one might as well go to Botswana (one of the largest rough diamond supplier) and go dig for diamonds and then facet it by himself. Nice idea, but impossible to execute in practice.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 7/15/2004 6:40:52 AM kevinng wrote:




Why do people go through the online vendors then? Why don't they just go to the factory and buy from them? Won't they save even more money?----------------

If you want to buy a BIG load of diamonds, often... yeah. DO you? Otherwise the cutter should know what retail prices are, I would immagine - that if they bother sell one stone at a time.

Just to mention the full side of the glass - these lists have bene there for ages, it is just that end buyers get to see them only now.

Oh, welll... and in the same time appears clearly that getting to see and wear these stones also involves paying for a jeweler's services. Is this so bad?

Anyway, one recent thread (by Leonid) announces that DeBeers will enter the US market directly again. I don't think too many believe that having a havyweight producer get down to retail favors consumers much. Do you ?

Just one more pro-Pricescope thought, of course.

 

[solange]

Many of the Pricescope vendors do not drop ship. They have the stone sent to them for inspection if they do not have it in stock and then discuss it with you. The cutters and wholesalers will usually not deal with you directly because they would be losing the business of the vendors who buy millions of dollars worth of stones from them when you are buying just one.They are also not set up to do a retail business which is very time consuming.

In addition to the mutual listing service, many Pricescope vendors have private stock. They will also search for a stone for you if you have a specific need they cannot fill from the list or their stock.

I bought my ring from Whiteflash and I am very pleased. I had specific requirements and it took a few months for Lesley to locate a stone for me. She was very selective and I got exactly what I wanted.

Then the stone was shipped to Pricescope and I discussed it with Brian. He is the ACA diamond cutter there. Whiteflash then had the stone sent to an appraiser of my choice where I saw it.He said it was a gorgeous stone and exactly as Whiteflash described it.

The stone was then sent back to Whiteflash for setting and I did not have to pay anything except the appraiser's fee until the day before Whiteflash was ready to ship it to me overnight. I got a great ring at a great price.

Many Pricscope vendors such as NiceIce, GoodOld Gold, Diamonds Direct and others will provide this same service. You are not limited to stones listed on the multiple listing and you can see it and have it appraised before you pay for it. I think buying this way gives you the widest choice of diamonds at the best prices since the vendor does not have to have a large inventory and money tied up in stones that may take a while to turn over. Thus they can sell at a very low mark-up and give excellent service.

Also the vendors are not anxious to disappoint and get the stone rejected so they are careful in how they describe the stone before they ship it to an appraiser for you. The stones listed on multiple listing are not necessarily rejects but if you want a hearts and arrows or any other specific brand, a Pricescope vendor can get it for you.

I would suggest that you call a few Pricescope vendors and see if you can find one you are comfortable dealing with. I would never buy a diamond any other way after months of high pressure sales tactics and lack of information while looking in the Diamond District.

 

[Sozekeyserman]

Hi all,

I''ve visited PS numerous times, been learning about diamonds for the past 5 - 6 months and am getting ready to buy a diamond. Through my searching, I''ve basically noticed the same thing g7adrian has (among others) and wanted to ask some questions about it.

To me, the price differential on the same stone between different vendors is not trivial. For the 2 or 3 diamonds I''m interested in off "the list", there is a 10% difference in minimum and maximum price (about $700 to $800). Heck, even $100 or $200 dollars difference is a lot to me!

At first blush, this makes me a bit agitated. That''s probably because I don''t understand all the reasons that play into this. I guess my best broad based question is, what is the consumer to do in light of this fact?

I''m really looking for people''s (average joe''s like myself and jewelers in the business) opinions on the matter, whether they''ve thought it''s fishy, whether it doesn''t bother them, and how they go about buying diamonds. I really appreciated Solange''s opinion that patience has paid off for him, and allowed him to compare private vendor stock to the stock in "the list". It seems the most logical to me. I currently have all the time in the world, and my future wife and I don''t mind waiting a few extra months.

Thanks everyone, I look forward to hearing your opinions.

Soze

 

[Regular Guy]

Soze, Adrian,

This practice is written about here in the Pricescope Journal.

Date: 7/26/2005 4:33:19 PM
Author: Sozekeyserman

At first blush, this makes me a bit agitated.

Don''t be agitated. Seems like it''s mostly like...say I want to get a computer, and I could get virtually the same computer at Office Depot, or Comp USA. Although I could predict it may be a little cheaper at Office Depot, I would choose to pay a relative premium at Comp USA for the benefit that other vendor would provide...notably tech support.

In the case of a diamond purchase, where it is literally the very same product that could be scooped up by one vendor or another...each vendor is simply setting what profit they would like to get for it, based on their costs, and you the consumer would decide which vendor you would like to go with, in consideration of that. Though some vendors may say: we''ll match the lowest price...understand the two (at least) sorts of services you would look to get from the particular vendor you do choose to work with, in calling in the stone:

1) their expertise....if they agree to look at the stone on your behalf before getting it to you, do you value their expertise in looking at it, over another vendor.
2) other business practices, the vendor will have, i.e., returns and upgrade policy, things that might come with the diamond, etc.

Frankly, based on knowing which diamond you would be getting already, and knowing that it could be had at one or another vendor...these particulars about which vendor you would simply rather work with become all the more important, in contrast to the situation where only one vendor offers the stone you want, and then, the details of the vendor practices may be somewhat less of an issue for you.

with best regards,

 

[JohnQuixote]

SKM (Who is Keyser Soze?)

This is a logical question that comes up from time to time.

Vendors who download/list diamonds from the virtual database have different value-adds and different overhead within different business models, offering various services and levels of expertise - as Ira mentioned.

A vendor who has a diamond drop-shipped to you sight-unseen may be able to offer a lower price than another who brings the diamond in for inspection by a gemologist, shoots images, runs reports, tests it and has it independently verified before paying to ship it to you himself… A vendor with no extended purchase benefits has different long term considerations than another who includes examination periods, buy-backs, lifetime trade-ups, gift programs, etc.

Suppliers also list some diamonds with more info than others. One vendor might extrapolate value differently on a diamond if more than the basics are included. Another may not.

The positive is that these differences in business models allow for a personal level of comfort in price relative to services/benefits. Different strokes for different folks. Research the differences in options. Decide what pedigree of expert analysis you are secure with and make a choice that is comfortable to you.

I imagine vendors who have a significant inventory would like you to find the right diamond in their vault, as it has been pre-analyzed, approved, photographed, Sarin’d and scoped. Nevertheless, every vendor would like to earn your business no matter where that diamond is and sets prices accordingly.

(Great link to Neil’s article, Ira. It hadn’t been written when this thread started. Nice value-add.)

 

[jewelgirl]

I was working with an online vendor who was not on pricescope. They listed diamonds on their site, that when I did a search on psfor like/kind/quality, ended up being the same stone!

I asked about this, and the vendor was a bit perturbed, but they valued my business b/c they agreed to match the lowest PS vendor price on any of their diamonds I found. I made the argument that if the PS vendor can make a profit, then so can they. They tried to sell me on their return polilcy and upgrade and buy back policies, btu when I explained none of that was worth paying for, they quicly agreed to price match in the understanding that If these are all the same diamonds, I WOULD gowith the vendor who would give the lowest price.

The diamond I found, and bought, was on the "mass list". It is a near H&A cut, and the HCA score was a 1.4...it is a beautiful stone, that I feel I got a really respectable price on. I think you just need to have the patience to cull throught he stones, and when you find one that looks as if it could be a winner, get allt he sarin data and if it is still a go...POUNCE

 

[Sozekeyserman]

Hi John, Ira, and rest,

Thanks so much for the informative link to the journal articles Ira. Neil''s article had a wonderful explanation, not to mention that both of your responses were incredibly helpful. On a side note, I also have gained so much knowledge from reading the other articles within the journal, such as Leonid''s stats on internet marketing and Garry''s extensive article on the Indian diamond market. Very interesting material!

I greatly appreciate your assistance, and I think I''ll be buying soon!

Soze

 

[sapphic]

What would be nice is a feature on PS to only show the lowest listing for a diamond. Personally, I don''t like to see 3-4 different vendors per diamond on a long list of search results, then try to figure out if one diamond is the same as another. It''d be nice if the PS search does that for you.

 

[Regular Guy]

Sapphic,

You know, the columns, both price and carat size, are sortable, by clicking once or twice (to sort up & down) at the top of the respective columns; I usually can see them...especially when you match on diameter particulars, and such. If it''s too automated, from my point of view, it takes out the fun!

Also:

Date: 7/26/2005 6:29:57 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

SKM (Who is Keyser Soze?)

Great movie, btw. Soze, did it inspire your screen name?

Regards,

 

[JD_MD]

Date: 7/15/2004 5:19:07 AM
Author: kkeen15
Your assertion is no secret (at least not among educated Internet diamond shoppers). Most diamonds for purchase online are actually from this list; some Pricescope vendors and BlueNile are exceptions. Buying a diamond from the list is just another option for you.

If you call the vendor, they will be open with you about whether they have the diamond in their possession or not. Just because a diamond is not ''in house'' doesn''t mean it isn''t gorgeous. Several people on this board bought a diamond from the list through an online vendor and were very satisfied, and rightfully so.

Actually Blue Nile sources many of their diamonds from shared vendor lists, although they do maintain an inventory as well. I ended up buying a diamond that I originally saw listed on Blue Nile''s site from another vendor who actually had the diamond in hand.