Really need your honest opinion

[Arkteia]

About 3 weeks ago I bought 2.51 ct oval cut Mahenge spinel from Eric Saul (Swala). I asked for high-end piece, and he recommended me the one that I finally bought. At the time, Chrono advised me to post a link because she felt (from my description of the stone) that it may be windowed. I did not follow her advice, got ahead and bought the gem - impulsively, and also because many of the stones on his website were already reserved. I believe I was afraid that this one could be gone, too.

Well Eric was very prompt, fast and pleasant, and I can say nothing but good about his personal style of communication. He assured me that the stone was in no way windowed and was cut by their own professional cutter.

Well, I got the stone. I do not know what to think of it. I really like the color, it is very bright and clean, and should look well in a ring or a pendant. But to me it looks windowed, and there are too many extinction areas, which were not seen on the photograph. Eric tells me that there is no window and that the stone is top-notch. I am going to post my photographs and I am seeking your opinion. If you feel the same way I do, I shall ask Eric to exchange the stone (he said that returns to Tanzania are difficult, but I believe that mail still comes there). I am posting many photographs because I am new to gem photography and want to give you best impression of the stone. If you tell me the stone is fine, so be it. If not...I hope we can exchange it because I would like to continue working with Eric - he has a very nice inventory. I do not like to lose good gem dealers, but I also like to feel good when I am looking at my stone. As it stands now, I simply have no opinion.

 

[Arkteia]

I think the previous one was taken in daylight. This one, too

 

[Arkteia]

And this one...

 

[Arkteia]

Sorry I have to post so many...

 

[Arkteia]

This one must show thin edges

 

[Arkteia]

This is also daylight (it is overcast and not much sun but the stone shines, and it is appealing

 

[Arkteia]

This should be indoors, diffused light

 

[Arkteia]

Sorry, it was close to incandescent light. Same conditions...

 

[Arkteia]

Another indoor light...I think there are many black areas

 

[cellentani]

crasru, I think the color of your spinel is pretty close to mine, and looks gorgeous. Most of your shots are at an angle, but in the two that are head-on (#2 and #6, I think), I''m not seeing any window. I do see some darkness, but I think that might be caused by the stone being in the crook of your fingers - no light can get in, and your skin touching the stone from the underside can do weird optical things as well. Try holding the stone up to see if it improves, and you could even try it in some empty settings.

 

[Arkteia]

A couple of more...

 

[Arkteia]

The last but one...

 

[cellentani]

And now that I''ve seen more of your shots - nope, no window.

 

[Arkteia]

And the last one - in a box. Eric does not provide boxes, he does it in a more refined, "corporate" way, he sends T-shirts, but he wrapped my tiny package in the shirt and it is by sheer miracle that I recovered it.
Cellentani thinks it is a nice stone, I would like to get a couple of other opinions so that I feel confident. As I said, I absolutely love the color and the brightness, I just have no idea about the cut.

 

[T L]

It appears you are confusing a "tilt window" with an actual table window, which this stone does not appear to have. Almost all stones have tilt windows, it''s just a fact of life. Some are larger than others, but in all, it appears to be a decent cut stone with fine color.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 12:28:27 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
It appears you are confusing a ''tilt window'' with an actual table window, which this stone does not appear to have. Almost all stones

So for the future, should I look at the table straight from above, and see how saturated the stone is, and whether the color is deep or "washed out" within the stone, and that would actually determine if it is "windowed" or not?

 

[T L]

Date: 1/9/2010 12:34:58 AM
Author: crasru

Date: 1/9/2010 12:28:27 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
It appears you are confusing a ''tilt window'' with an actual table window, which this stone does not appear to have. Almost all stones

So for the future, should I look at the table straight from above, and see how saturated the stone is, and whether the color is deep or ''washed out'' within the stone, and that would actually determine if it is ''windowed'' or not?

Yes, you must be looking with your eyes directly over the table of the stone. Here''s more on windows and extinction, sparkle, etc. . .

http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/brilliance_windows_extinction.htm

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think it looks very good, though I am no expert.

Once Chrono said that when she buys gems if she does not love them when she opens the box she sends them back. I think this is good advice, though if you tend to be the analytical type (like me

) then sometimes things can grow on you after you exclude any nagging doubts.

 

[Lovinggems]

Swala has lots of top notched gems but I''m not loving this one, not sure if it''s because of the photos, although it might be risky sending the stone back to Tanzania.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 12:45:33 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 1/9/2010 12:34:58 AM

Author: crasru

Date: 1/9/2010 12:28:27 AM

Author: tourmaline_lover

It appears you are confusing a ''tilt window'' with an actual table window, which this stone does not appear to have. Almost all stones


So for the future, should I look at the table straight from above, and see how saturated the stone is, and whether the color is deep or ''washed out'' within the stone, and that would actually determine if it is ''windowed'' or not?

Yes, you must be looking with your eyes directly over the table of the stone. Here''s more on windows and extinction, sparkle, etc. . .


http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/brilliance_windows_extinction.htm

Thank you very much for the link. I read the article. No more problems with window. But there are two definite extinction areas - they can be seen in photographs 6,7 and 8 and most obvious in the last one. I am going to make a photograph when the light is passing through a stone and post it for you to see.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 1:39:28 AM
Author: Lovinggems
Swala has lots of top notched gems but I''m not loving this one, not sure if it''s because of the photos, although it might be risky sending the stone back to Tanzania.

Well, the photos do look ugly although for someone who just took first shots four days ago it could be worse. I shall try to do a better job. Basically, there are two things that are...well, juxt so-so. One is, it looks slightly shallow, like a canoe. And second, these black areas against pink background... As I have said, I may need to make better pictures. This is the first Mahenge spinel I ever saw so I do not know how other stones may look like.

Sorry for my naive question, but doesn''t FEDEX have branches in Tanzania?

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 1:22:28 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
I think it looks very good, though I am no expert.


Once Chrono said that when she buys gems if she does not love them when she opens the box she sends them back. I think this is good advice, though if you tend to be the analytical type (like me

) then sometimes things can grow on you after you exclude any nagging doubts.

There are things about it that I like (color) and there are things that I dislike (shape, m.b. extinction?) but I simply can not be a judge because this is the first Mahenge spinel I saw. Imagine seeing the first diamond in your life - it is beautiful, it sparkles, but how can you say if it is good or not? Even without a certificate - if you have seen ten, you at least know how different diamonds may look, but with your first one? That is why I am asking experts'' opinion.

In life I am very analytical, but in shopping...I tend to make spontaneous buys and then analyze them for years.

 

[T L]

I really like the color in your daylight pictures. Does the stone shift color in incandescent light, and if so, to what color?

 

[Lovinggems]

Date: 1/9/2010 1:50:02 AM
Author: crasru

Date: 1/9/2010 1:39:28 AM
Author: Lovinggems
Swala has lots of top notched gems but I''m not loving this one, not sure if it''s because of the photos, although it might be risky sending the stone back to Tanzania.

Well, the photos do look ugly although for someone who just took first shots four days ago it could be worse. I shall try to do a better job. Basically, there are two things that are...well, juxt so-so. One is, it looks slightly shallow, like a canoe. And second, these black areas against pink background... As I have said, I may need to make better pictures. This is the first Mahenge spinel I ever saw so I do not know how other stones may look like.

Sorry for my naive question, but doesn''t FEDEX have branches in Tanzania?

My apologies crasru, I think your photo taking skill is very nice, I like those of your pendants, earrings and ring in other other thread.

I was thinking because you have the spinel posed between your fingers in almost all the shots this might have influenced the way it looks, it''s harder to see the gem clearly, it might actually look a lot better than the photos in real life, or it might not.

I too bought and returned a spinel (not a Mahenge and much less costly), the cutting is excellent but it had the half black area effect as well (like in your first photo), I couldn''t see the colour properly, sadly I couldn''t bring myself to love it so I returned it.

 

[LD]

Crasru - no window, just a tilt window which you''ll see in many gems. It does have some extinction (showing in some of your pictures but not others) so I''m wondering actually if it''s a shadow from your head when photographing?

This is the cruncher though ............. do you love it? If the answer is "it''s ok" then it''s not for you. The Mahenge Spinels normally have a neon look to them that, if you like that, will blow your socks off. You''ve also mentioned that you''re unsure of the cut. This is pretty critical to you loving the gem or not.

If it''s not for you and is a lovely stone but not what you want, then please send it back. Eric will always be able to get more (or even cut you a piece). It''s good though because now you''ve seen a Mahenge you know much better what to expect if you go the exchange route.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Date: 1/9/2010 1:50:02 AM
Author: crasru

Date: 1/9/2010 1:39:28 AM
Author: Lovinggems
Swala has lots of top notched gems but I''m not loving this one, not sure if it''s because of the photos, although it might be risky sending the stone back to Tanzania.

Well, the photos do look ugly although for someone who just took first shots four days ago it could be worse. I shall try to do a better job. Basically, there are two things that are...well, juxt so-so. One is, it looks slightly shallow, like a canoe. And second, these black areas against pink background... As I have said, I may need to make better pictures. This is the first Mahenge spinel I ever saw so I do not know how other stones may look like.

Sorry for my naive question, but doesn''t FEDEX have branches in Tanzania?

I don''t think that getting the stone physically there is the problem, but rather custom issues, which can be a major pain in some countries. Since it is a return, there may be a lot of red tape to prove that it is the same stone that left the country (and not amore or less expensive stone, to cheat on taxes) and there may be the risk of the package "disappearing" somewhere along the line.

This is most likely the reason why the stone was wrapped in a Tshirt as well (if someone opens the package, all they see is the tshirt, instead of a valuable gem).

 

[ma re]

I don''t see a window, and I seriously doubt that there''s any extinction either.

Many people have a bit of trouble understanding extinction. The reason I doubt this stone has any, lies in the fact that you say that it''s visible in some photos. Extinction is either visible in all the photos and from many different angles appearing as an (most often) irregularly shaped black area inside the stone, that doesen''t move around as you rotate or tilt the stone, but rather always shows at exactly the same spot. It''s an area the light doesen''t reach, so if you sometimes see it and sometimes not (at the same spot), there''s no extinction, but rather some facet reflections or something similar.

BTW, that''s a really lovely stone, nice depth of color, decent cutting, balanced overall appearance. You should also think about this stone inside a setting (unless you plan to just have it loose in the box), cause it might look even better, or not, once set. So if you think you might like it better when it''s set, that''s something to consider, cause mahenge spinels are not very common and it might take a while until you find another one as nice. Not trying to persuade you, just trying to help you out. It''s all your decision, hope you have fun making it

 

[LD]

Crasru - I have an Umbalite Garnet that has a lot of extinction. It doesn''t matter what angle I photograph it from, it will always show some extinction however, darker areas will appear lighter and lighter areas appear darker dependent on how the light is hitting the gem. So it can appear that the extinction "moves" if that makes sense? Here are some photos that I hope illustrates the point. Look at the ring, can you see a darker maltese cross in the centre? Then look at the loose gemstone - the gem is tilted slightly and you can see that the cross has become illuminated and now shows to be bright, however other areas of the gem are now looking dark.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 3:01:29 AM
Author: Lovinggems

Date: 1/9/2010 1:50:02 AM
Author: crasru

Date: 1/9/2010 1:39:28 AM
Author: Lovinggems
Swala has lots of top notched gems but I'm not loving this one, not sure if it's because of the photos, although it might be risky sending the stone back to Tanzania.

Well, the photos do look ugly although for someone who just took first shots four days ago it could be worse. I shall try to do a better job. Basically, there are two things that are...well, juxt so-so. One is, it looks slightly shallow, like a canoe. And second, these black areas against pink background... As I have said, I may need to make better pictures. This is the first Mahenge spinel I ever saw so I do not know how other stones may look like.

Sorry for my naive question, but doesn't FEDEX have branches in Tanzania?

My apologies crasru, I think your photo taking skill is very nice, I like those of your pendants, earrings and ring in other other thread.

I was thinking because you have the spinel posed between your fingers in almost all the shots this might have influenced the way it looks, it's harder to see the gem clearly, it might actually look a lot better than the photos in real life, or it might not.

I too bought and returned a spinel (not a Mahenge and much less costly), the cutting is excellent but it had the half black area effect as well (like in your first photo), I couldn't see the colour properly, sadly I couldn't bring myself to love it so I returned it.

God forbid, no offence taken! I like a good laugh and I am 100% OK with accepting criticism. I came here to learn and not to get praizes for everything I bought. If you feel that I am considering to buy something great, tell me so, if you think I am making a mistake - please DO tell me! Even if I have already bought something. Potentially I am a good customer since I tend to buy larger stones - I like custom setting and all things considered, with the setting it ends up "cheaper per carat" - I hope I am clear in my explanation.

Since I am a private collector, I should probably go to Tucson to educate myself - but considering the cost of tickets at the time of the show, the cost of a hotel room and meals + the money I lose by being off work for a few days, it is cheaper to ask someone to buy a stone for me. Although I plan to do it before I buy a sapphire - blue does not come well on photographs, or at least so it seems to me.

So in many ways, I do depend on you when it comes to I-net purchases - it is nice that you are honest in your opinion.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 11:24:42 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Crasru - I have an Umbalite Garnet that has a lot of extinction. It doesn''t matter what angle I photograph it from, it will always show some extinction however, darker areas will appear lighter and lighter areas appear darker dependent on how the light is hitting the gem. So it can appear that the extinction ''moves'' if that makes sense? Here are some photos that I hope illustrates the point. Look at the ring, can you see a darker maltese cross in the centre? Then look at the loose gemstone - the gem is tilted slightly and you can see that the cross has become illuminated and now shows to be bright, however other areas of the gem are now looking dark.

I totally understand what you mean because I saw this effect in my demantoid - although because of the round cut, dark areas look more like "sectors" and it is easier to see them move. There is some degree of extinction in all of my lighter and brighter garnets, so I think it is to be expected to a degree, I do not see it in my tsavorites but they are just too small. Am I right in expecting concave cutting to mask this effect best? Because my Namibian garnet is precision cut, and shows almost none.

I compared my most "extincted" garnet which is cushion cut with the spinel - I think I see extinction in the spinel. It does move, although since the cut is not round, the spots change their shape, and always assume the same pattern when the stone comes back to its initial position.

I would not mind but the areas are large and it interferes with the overall appearance of the stone. The color is very nice, glows outdoors and indoors, and does have the "neon" quality. It is pinkier outdoors (but again it has been raining for a few days so I was unable to catch any sun) and switches slightly more red in incandescent light.

God, I feel bad about the returns. Do you know if one could mask extinction better with a different cut? From the article that TL so kindly provided, I understood that it is very hard to mask, unless you change the axis, but in this case, it means cutting off most of the stone.