Realistic outlook for soon to be GIA GG Graduate

[danielh]

A quick summary,

Im over halfway though the last part of the GIA GG course, colored stones. Should have my degree by March 06.

Have many other GIA certificates Pearl grading, Synthetic diamonds and synthetic moissanite, Gem Id, Color Stone grading, Gem Id, ect... Considering taking the new Pearl certifcate program too.

I have been making jewelry mostly on a hobby basis for over 16 years.

An accident a while back left me disabled , but after 4 spinal , and 6 knee surgeries I am much better and get around very well.

I have no retail working experience in the jewelry trade.

Im in my early 40’s

My wife divorced me after the accident left me disabled, and I would prefer living close enough to still be with my 3 and 5 year old daughters on a regular basis. ( If I could make a decent wage, I would consider moving as I would be able to fly to see them. )

Im a normal looking guy, no GQ cover model that’s for sure,
From what I have been told looks and youth is more important to gaining employment in this industry than actual knowledge and skills.

Here is the question, Im I living in a dream world thinking I will ever find gainful employment in the jewelry trade? Or was this all a waste of time?

Im looking for non PC, just honest truth so I can decide what I should do, or not do? I still plan on finishing my GG degree as I have so much invested into it, and cant afford to do anything else right now.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 12/5/2005 7:46:09 PM
Author:danielh

From what I have been told looks and youth is more important to gaining employment in this industry than actual knowledge and skills.

Here is the question, Im I living in a dream world thinking I will ever find gainful employment in the jewelry trade? Or was this all a waste of time?

Im looking for non PC, just honest truth so I can decide what I should do, or not
do?

The best (& highest paid) jewelry salesperson I've ever worked with was old, butt ugly and knew less than you about gems.

He just loved people.

I don't know who gave you this "looks and youth" line, but they are full of crap. Life is full of dream squashers that delight in attempting to put others in a box. Don't listen to them, and don't be hemmed in by their negativity.

Is that non-politically correct enough for you?

In sales, it's 90% personality (and caring) and 10% knowledge.

In jewelry making and appraising, it's 90% knowledge and 10% personality.

In buying, it's 100% knowledge, and (someone's) cash.

 

[JDgirl]

A friend of my family recently started working in jewelry sales. She''s 58 years old. She has some of her GIA work done, but still has a lot to go. She is just a GREAT salesperson. She''s great with people and knows how to read them, deal with their idiosyncracies, and make positives out of negatives. She''s been working at the jewelry store for only a year and she''s already their top salesperson! I think Richard is so right...it''s about personality. Only one person working at her store is anything to look at...and she''s rather snotty, so she doesn''t do as well.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[monarch64]

Well here''s an honest opinion from a nobody consumer: what I look for in a jeweler has more to do with word-of-mouth recommendations, honesty, and a customer-service friendly personality. If you''re trying to gain employment in an industry you feel very passionate about, I would say that looks/charisma have zero to do with it. I spent 10 years of my life in retail, I sold jewelry for J.C. Penney for about a year and a half (obviously no gemology degree), and spent the rest of the time in apparel. Product knowledge goes a LONG way, as does the willlingness to service the customer up the yin-yang, if you will. If you have the kind of personality which allows you to combine patience and a passion for whatever you''re trying to sell, you will succeed, IMHO. Don''t let little things in life such as looks deter you from achieving your dream! Go into interviews rested, well-dressed, and prepared, and you will reap the benefits of putting in such hard work toward your goals.

 

[denverappraiser]

I’m with Richard, the thing about youth and looks being the key is a load of hooey. This works on TV but in real life it’s the other way around. Everywhere else it’s about character and personality. Older people have an immediate credibility that young folks have a hard time matching. I’ll tell you a secret about the jewelry business. With the exception of the mall, it’s not about selling engagement rings to 19 year-old’s. In selling to little old ladies, it’s very difficult for a sales person who looks like a 22 year old Barbie to gain any credibility at all, even when she’s highly skilled. You have a distinct advantage.

By the way, early 40’s IS young. You shouldn''t complain about this until you’re in your early 70’s.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

You have been given some good advice.

Neil raises a good point.
At one of the shops I vistit from time to time there are 2 employees and the owner.
1. nice looking, dressed to kill, likes to flirt, lady
2. frumpy looking guy , mid 40's
3. the owner.

The lady gets a lot of small sales, the guys spending a few grand tops seek her out.

The ladies making the bigger purchases wont give her the time of day and go with the guy.

The older guys with money want to deal only with the owner.

At the end of the year I bet they make close to the same amount of sales but the lady has to work a lot harder for it.


Another shop I visit from time to time the best salesperson is an 50+ year old grandma who likes to talk about her grandkids more than diamonds but is the only one there that can tell you how/why an ags0 diamond is different from a 64% depth igi certed diamond.
She has clients that just come in to chat every week and more often than not buy something. She sells a lot of expensive watches and class rings to other grandma's.

The bottom line is some people have it some dont.
The worst ones are the ones that dont and put on an act and come accross as fake.
Best advise be yourself and if you dont love helping people its the wrong line of work.

 

[oldminer]

What you can make depends on how motivated and creative you are about what you do. It also may have to do with the location you prefer to live in. A rural area will not let you make the living of a large city, but costs are lower, too. Will you continue to make jewelry and professionalize that part of your skills or do you hope to just do jewelry making on a continuing hobby basis?

You can generally get work in departments store, retail counters. They pay little, but you do learn about retailing. If you are in a large city, there may be wholesale work available.

Tell us what you want to do. Your age, and looks have a lot less to do with this than your knowledge, willingness to learn, work hard. Speaking well and clearly is a skill all of us can use. Being a good writer and speller also counts when it comes to job advancement.

Hope this helps.

 

[RockDoc]

Daniel

Im with Richard and Neil on this as far as looks etc is concerned. But... I would add that you might consider that there are a lot of other employment opportunities out there besides being a sales person.

As far as sales goes, looks are not that important, the ability to sell and knowledge that you can communicate to buyers is. However appearance in the sales area is important to many employers. This is about how you dress i.e. general appearance more than looks.

There are lots of other jewelry/gemological related jobs as well. You could be a sales or customer rep for a jewelry or stone wholesaler, you could work sorting stones, or train as a buyer for a chain store. Since you have some bench experience, you might be an inspector for a manufacturer.

GIA does have a career fair and an office that supplies information on available employment for its graduates. Have you spoken with them.

Also if you are in an area where there is a GIA member chapter, get in there and network with other gemologists. That will probably increase your chances of finding a job 1000%.

Hope this helps.

Rockdoc

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Boy, would I wish that looks and youth were the norm in the business.

Now, I have to visit ''old'' geezers like Wink or Gary Dutton. And some of the guys that use their pics as avatars here look a lot better in the pic than in reality.

On the other hand, I feel more at ease with these grumpy, old men. If I had to deal with a supermodel-woman, I fear that I would not feel self-secure.

Live long,

 

[devientdrow]

Well since you asked for honest, I will be. I personally, would have no problem as long as you were knowledgeable and friendly. But we all know that in order to get to know that about you I would need to approach you. Now first your male. This is in no way across the board, just something that i''ve noticed in jewelry stores. It seems when I see guys on thier own they will tend to gravitate to a woman sales person. I don''t know if they are:
Checking them out?
Thing that they know more about womens jewelry because they are women?
Think that because of being female they will know more about what style the girl might prefer?

Now like I said thats not across the board, just something i''ve noticed. I on the other hand have actually had better sales expierence with men. I find a lot of the women I talk to in jewelry stores to be pushier than the men. Again casual observation in no way definintive of sales people as a whole.

I worked retail for a very long time, and was even a manager. I take it you are in a wheelchair of some sort? I noticed that when someone with disabilities would come into my store all of a sudden a lot of my co workers would be "busy" straightening or folding.....just generally trying to look busy to ignore the person. After this happened a few times I gave them quite a good tongue lashing.......when I asked why...some said they just thought it would be more work to help them ect....it was all crap to me. I never had to work harder to help anyone with disabilities....I think the truth is there are some people out there who have issues dealing with people who are different than them. Not that thier neccesarily malicious but that they are for some reason made uncomfortable by it. However I have notivced that those people are NOT the majority. I think should you give off a friendly and helpful vibe and just in general be a good sales person you would have NO PROBLEM at all. I think that any store would be lucky to have someone who has actually went out educating themselves about the product. Honestly a lot of people that i''ve been helped by in jewelry stores have admitted they don''t know the answers to most of my questions.

Best of luck!!

 

[danielh]

Wow, where to start… First of all, thank you all for your honest opinions. This is the most useful information I have received in many years.

Now Im would consider myself normal looking, I mean, I young children don’t cry and scream when they see me. But at 6’4” and 200 pounds, people do tend to look. About one a week someone ask me if I anyone has ever told me I look like Paul McCartney. So I assume that would be about the best I could do for a description short of posting a photo.

No, Im not in a wheelchair. As long as I have take my medication a couple times a day, you probably wouldn’t even know I was disabled. It mostly an issue of pain. Kind of like living with a hot fireplace poker being rotated around in my lower back 24/7 –365 days a year. If the pain level gets to high, I just sit a bit, and maybe have to take a some pain medication, but I have learned to cope with the pain much better now by learning just how much I can push myself. If I push to hard one day, I might pay for it the next 2 days, so to be dependable, I have to limit it. But there is not that much physical labor at a jewelry store. By physical I mean like mowing the grass or heavy lifting and moving.

What I want to do when I grow up? Good question. As I said, its been a hobby of mine for many years. When growing up my best friends parents own the only jewelry store in town. They are the ones who hooked me on jewelry. His dad was in fact, in a wheelchair due to polio as a child. Since then I’ve amassed a good collection of tools and have built pretty much a complete shop in which I create my jewelry. But I still have a long way to go. Most I of what I have learned over the last 15 years or so is self taught from trial and error, books, videos and internet sources.

The GIA course is fantastic and I feel I would greatly improve if I just had access to the stones to study more and others who I could learn from. I know what is taught in the book, I just need a chance to apply it in real world situations and learn it hands on. That is harder to do. Oh, Ive also been working on a degree in fine arts at a local university as I can afford the classes.

I have always been a people person, I have been told I tend to talk to anyone about anything. I use to talk way to much, but over the years I learned that if I listen first, I might just get all my questions answered, and if I don’t, I will have learned the best way to form a question. That’s not always the case, but many times it is. Im not perfect in anyway, when in a intense conversation with friends or other people, I can still say the dumbest things, but I try to recover as gracefully as I can.

I have done retail sales in the past but not in jewelry. My experience is that usually 90% of the people who came to buy, don’t need any thing at all. They just need you there in case they have a couple of questions that come to mind, and then the final purchase. I really hate to be pushed by sales people, I usually walk out on the pushy ones myself, so I could never do that to anyone else.

Where do I want to go in the trade? I want to still create jeweler, if I do it on the side while working for someone, or someday own my own studio or shop, that would be fine.
Sales would be fine as long as I also get work at the bench. I don’t think I could stand not doing something with my hands all day. Ive always said I would be horrible pushing papers across a desk as I need to feel and see a finished product.

Id would prefer staying close to my daughters at least until they get older, but if I had a chance to work someplace where I could learn the trade and increase my bench skills, I would probably take it. Especially if it was in a nice climate, like say, the Bahamas

 

[Kaleigh]

You have a great passion and a lot of knowledge. Plus you come across as a nice person that cares. That''s what makes a great sales professional. How would working on the bench affect you back?? I ask as I too have 3 herniated disks in my neck, different from back I know. Just wondering if you could handle sitting for long hours at a time. I worked in a fine jewelry store for many years and loved it. I think your passion and personality would best fit a career in sales or after a bit management. Good luck!!!

 

[movie zombie]

at 6''4" 200 pounds and told you look like paul mccartney once a week, i don''t think you have to worry about looks. you might be beating women off with a stick........just make sure they make a purchase before you hit them!

peace,movie zombie

 

[danielh]

Date: 12/6/2005 10:03:11 PM
Author: kaleigh
You have a great passion and a lot of knowledge. Plus you come across as a nice person that cares. That''s what makes a great sales professional. How would working on the bench affect you back?? I ask as I too have 3 herniated disks in my neck, different from back I know. Just wondering if you could handle sitting for long hours at a time. I worked in a fine jewelry store for many years and loved it. I think your passion and personality would best fit a career in sales or after a bit management. Good luck!!!

I work at my bench at home a lot. With a few modification I do just fine. Even though I had a friend custom buid my bench to my height, after the accident I had to raise it another 4 inches so I didnt slump to meet the bench top. I use a cheap office chair that works great, if my back starts to really bother me, I just spin it around, and lean my chest on the back of the chair. That takes some of the weight off of my lower back. I also made some fore arm rest that I can move around where I need them. This not only keeps my arms at the right level so I don’t have to use shoulder and back muscles to do it, they also keep my elbows from resting on the bench, which can cause even more problem.

Unfortunately each time I had spinal surgery I was bed ridden for a while. To sit up in bed I would use my elbows to lift my upper torso to a certain point, and then my hands to raise up the rest of the way. This caused a problem some of you may know about. It damages the Ulnar nerve on the elbow. This nerve is also called “the funny bone”. Once the nerve is squished and bruised, the medical field calls it Cubital Syndrome. Your fore arms, hands and fingers can tingle and get numb, and your elbow are the sight of a lot of pain. Most people have the problem in one elbow, but lucky me, I got both. Its pretty much a non issue with me anymore by learning to do things differently.

Anyway, I also have a small wooden box about 6 inches tall under the bench. Sometimes if my back starts to bother me I use a foot to slide it in place, and then rest my feet on it. That can also help to take the stress off of the lower back. If the pain gets to bad I get onto my inversion table and about 10 minutes at about a 60 degree angle is as good as resting flat on my back for a couple hours. It really helps a lot.

As for the pain from the spinal nerve damage, nothing much can be done for that except to take methadone or a couple extra Tylenol. My doctor doesn’t like me taking Tylenol to much as it can destroy the liver. My doctor has offered to increase the pain medication levels, but I have been that route, didn’t like it. Pre my last surgery I was on 160mg morphine a day, and I still felt a lot of pain. After the surgery, I only took 8-10 vicodin a day. Now I take at the most 3 methadone tablets and 4 or 5 Tylenol. After a couple years you kind of learn to live with the pain and control the stress that goes with it. Heck, if I can run around after a 3 and 5 year olds 3 to 4 full days a week, I think I can sit at a bench everyday. My doctor thinks my daughters have done more to help me handle the pain than any therapy or medication she could have prescribed. With my daughters I cant say, “it hurts to much”, or “Im just cant”. There are to many ways they could be injured or worse if I ever did that. I guess one thing being like this has taught me, is that if I really want to do something, I can.

 

[danielh]

Date: 12/6/2005 10:03:55 PM
Author: movie zombie
at 6''4'' 200 pounds and told you look like paul mccartney once a week, i don''t think you have to worry about looks. you might be beating women off with a stick........just make sure they make a purchase before you hit them!


peace,movie zombie

yes, I hear that about once a week, I dont see it though, and I sure havent had the chance to beat any women off lately. Maybe I should practice an English accent!

I can do an Aussie accent pretty good. I kind of had a personal trainer for that, my X wife is from Australia.

 

[movie zombie]

the aussie accent will work just fine.....my husband is aussie!!!!

sounds to me more like a crisis of confidence. understandable. but we ordinary people don''t expect to be greeted by "10''s". i''m more concerned about attitude and whether the person is trying to con me.

and it pays to keep an open mind from the other side: my husband and i are extremely casual and when we walk into a place, the suits can take an attitude. big mistake. the interested in what i''m looking for and not what they want to sell me is who i''m going to do business with.

anyway, looking like paul mccartney ain''t bad! good luck and i look forward to your sharing info you''re learning with us here at pricescope. drop by the color stone forum sometime.

peace, movie zombie