Real world difference 3EX vs Super Ideal Cut

[musicloveranthony]

What about AGS 000 vs GCAL 8x?

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

I think her response got caught up in your quote box somehow. It appears she was complimenting your stone.

Yup! Thanks for clarifying @sledge .

 

[Rons Wolfe]

Sorry if I offended you Rons.
AGS has simply allowed a longer range on what we call the sweet line into shallower and steeper crown angles (with appropriately inverse pavilion angles).
That said, I have seen evidence of GIA diamonds with shallower proportion combinations and very shallow depths in % terms (probably at risk of chipping girdles) than on any Facetware(tm) Charts.
Each of those extreme crown angle variations requires careful matching of upper and lower girdle combinations - one of Karls extreme expertises.

And on top of all that, because growers of CVD slabs have depth as a limitation, it makes sense that we consider real world viewing distances. Rarely do people examine diamonds from 8 inches as per AGS standards for rejection. I have always set my standard at 14 to 18 inches because thats what I see people looking from most of the time.
I

Yes I did think that response was unnecessary, but apology accepted.

I'm not disagreeing with the assessment of why they do it, I was actually more surprised to see it at all. I noticed it a few nights ago when I bounced several stones off your tool and had one land in that range. I understand the complementary angles working together in AGS' narrower range as opposed to GIA's wider range allowing for steep deeps, but my own preference was to have one called in that fits well within both ranges. If I were in a store looking at the stones I'd consider any AGS0, and possibly even GIAXXX, but since I'm going to the time and expense of calling in stones and have plenty to choose from I'm just playing it safe.

And all for one silly little pendant.............

 

[Rons Wolfe]

The retired director of AGS also wore an 8* and did not hold with GIA's dinging and downgrading most 8*'s to VG cut quality.
I agree somewhat, but sometimes it is arguable that Richard Von Sternberg (vale) pushed a bit hard on the lower girdle painting.

I don't agree with dinging stone for it either, as long as it's not excessive. Disclaimer on mine, my late husband bought it from an online reseller after I found it and told his "There's my dream stone". It also fit the criteria he wanted, so....
It's GIA cert is several years old, possibly predating GIA dinging the cut grade for the painting. The AGS cert is newer, and gave it 0's across the board. The stone's angles are also all within the range that WF and BGD require for their signature stones.

 

[Rons Wolfe]

Yup! Thanks for clarifying @sledge .

Thank you! A fun pic of it to lighten the mood.

 

[Kim N]

I don't agree with dinging stone for it either, as long as it's not excessive. Disclaimer on mine, my late husband bought it from an online reseller after I found it and told his "There's my dream stone". It also fit the criteria he wanted, so....
It's GIA cert is several years old, possibly predating GIA dinging the cut grade for the painting. The AGS cert is newer, and gave it 0's across the board. The stone's angles are also all within the range that WF and BGD require for their signature stones.

I have a similarly cut stone from Whiteflash when they were still cutting this style, and I still love it. Yours is gorgeous!

 

[Rons Wolfe]

I have a similarly cut stone from Whiteflash when they were still cutting this style, and I still love it. Yours is gorgeous!

I wonder why they stopped. The whole idea of all these precise angles is to get brilliance out of the stone, so why is a little side to side angle of the faceting a bad thing? Can I see yours?

 

[Kim N]

I wonder why they stopped. The whole idea of all these precise angles is to get brilliance out of the stone, so why is a little side to side angle of the faceting a bad thing? Can I see yours?

It's at the bank unfortunately, and I don't have any old photos handy. I agree, I know it ended up not being popular enough to continue making them, but I don't think a bit of painting to improve brightness is a bad thing at all.

 

[jknechtl]

Thank you all guys for replies even the thread went a bit different way

I bought the D from Bluenile and just yesterday got their Astor Cut studs .6 ctw and yes - they sparkle more when compared directly with the ring between them. But it seems that it has to do something with the size? I am noob but I feel like the smaller diamonds has to have the same number of facets (i hope it is the right word) => the facets are smaller => smaller light source movement is needed to sparkle. (I went for Astor cut since the studs are smaller and wanted to see the difference)

But in total there is a bit more light return - eg. at the same light source and distance, the studs make 3-4 sparkles at once, the ring 1-2.

I am in touch with BN and tempted to switch to Astor cut smaller stone..

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Thank you all guys for replies even the thread went a bit different way

I bought the D from Bluenile and just yesterday got their Astor Cut studs .6 ctw and yes - they sparkle more when compared directly with the ring between them. But it seems that it has to do something with the size? I am noob but I feel like the smaller diamonds has to have the same number of facets (i hope it is the right word) => the facets are smaller => smaller light source movement is needed to sparkle. (I went for Astor cut since the studs are smaller and wanted to see the difference)

But in total there is a bit more light return - eg. at the same light source and distance, the studs make 3-4 sparkles at once, the ring 1-2.

I am in touch with BN and tempted to switch to Astor cut smaller stone..

Sorry. We hijacked your thread.
Yes those proportions are not my favorite.
Put a hold on anything interesting and post here or in a.new thread

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I don't agree with dinging stone for it either, as long as it's not excessive. Disclaimer on mine, my late husband bought it from an online reseller after I found it and told his "There's my dream stone". It also fit the criteria he wanted, so....
It's GIA cert is several years old, possibly predating GIA dinging the cut grade for the painting. The AGS cert is newer, and gave it 0's across the board. The stone's angles are also all within the range that WF and BGD require for their signature stones.

GIA we're dinging from day 1 of the 2006 grading systems launch (5 years after HCA and pretty much a direct copy of my patent).
Here is an article from back there

https://www.gia.edu/doc/poster_finish_culet_girdle_lowres.pdf

 

[Rons Wolfe]

GIA we're dinging from day 1 of the 2006 grading systems launch (5 years after HCA and pretty much a direct copy of my patent).
Here is an article from back there

https://www.gia.edu/doc/poster_finish_culet_girdle_lowres.pdf

Ah, didn't realize that. So I guess it means mine isn't painted enough to offend them, since it got the EX grade. Not that it matters, I love it with or without the grade.

 

[sledge]

But it seems that it has to do something with the size? I am noob but I feel like the smaller diamonds has to have the same number of facets (i hope it is the right word) => the facets are smaller => smaller light source movement is needed to sparkle. (I went for Astor cut since the studs are smaller and wanted to see the difference)

But in total there is a bit more light return - eg. at the same light source and distance, the studs make 3-4 sparkles at once, the ring 1-2.

I am in touch with BN and tempted to switch to Astor cut smaller stone..

Every MRB will have the same 57/58 facets regardless of size.

Generally a larger stone will produce a LARGER flash of light return. I think the difference you are seeing is that between a better and worse cut stone. Also those proportions work in harmony that produces a “personality” for each stone. Some may favor more white light return over rainbow light. Others might disperse smaller and more rapid return.

Be very careful with just swapping to an Astor Ideal. I understand that is BN’s trademark for what they consider their best cut. And they might be their best cut. I’ve seen some and generally agree they are nicer than average for the most part but I don't consider them on the same level as a super ideal. Not saying you need or have to go the super ideal route but rather saying it’s a marketing slogan of sorts and you need to closely examine the proportions and not trust just the naming convention only.

On a positive I am glad you was able to see a difference. You are beginning to see that all 3X’s are not the same. The devil is truly in the details.

 

[jknechtl]

@sledge Thank you - yes it is visible - I will try to make photos..

I know about Astor cuts not beeing true ACA - but I don't want to switch to another shop, since they are quite helpful.. I am considering this https://www.bluenile.com/cz/diamond-details/LD21085700 (scored .9 in HCA tool) but at the similar price I know E color .65 ct ACA at Whiteflash..

 

[lovedogs]

@sledge Thank you - yes it is visible - I will try to make photos..

I know about Astor cuts not beeing true ACA - but I don't want to switch to another shop, since they are quite helpful.. I am considering this https://www.bluenile.com/cz/diamond-details/LD21085700 (scored .9 in HCA tool) but at the similar price I know E color .65 ct ACA at Whiteflash..

I wouldn't choose this astor option. It's not great, to be honest. I also would just get the best stone for your money and not worry about switching vendors.

 

[jknechtl]

Ok, so which one would you buy?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...lor-vvs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-16733162 it seems to me like a good deal considering size a nice cut
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4511723.htm (it is ACA)
.7+ at WF is just a little bit over my budget

 

[lovedogs]

Ok, so which one would you buy?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...lor-vvs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-16733162 it seems to me like a good deal considering size a nice cut
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4511723.htm (it is ACA)
.7+ at WF is just a little bit over my budget

The James allen one is a very nice stone, but for me personally the whiteflash would be more "mind clean" given the super ideal cut AND the lifetime upgrade policy.

If I were you, I would choose this one to get the extra size since H color wouldnt bother me. But that's definitely a personal choice. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4526937.htm

 

[Kim N]

Ok, so which one would you buy?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...lor-vvs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-16733162 it seems to me like a good deal considering size a nice cut
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4511723.htm (it is ACA)
.7+ at WF is just a little bit over my budget

Another vote for the ACA. The Astor you posted earlier is not well cut.