Radiant help!!!!

[mocho]

Hi there, I am in the market for an engagement ring, my gf likes radiants and I am looking to spend $15k - $20k. I searched the threads here and see that radiants are kind of a controversial cut, but that's what she likes, preferably the square vs. rectangular.

I am hoping the experts here can help me out. I haven't been thrilled with the ones I've seen in stores here in San Francisco (or the prices) and from the old threads on radiants it seems dangerous to buy a radiant online.

I have been looking online anyway, so far I have found two at Blue Nile:
2.0 carat, very good cut, VS1, F, thick girdle, 7.17x6.66x4.8, 72.1% depth, 70% table, 11.3% crown height

1.51 carat, very good cut, VS1, F, very thin to slightly thick girdle, 6.58x6.47x4.33, 72% table, 66.9% depth, 12% crown

diy appraisal at gemappraisers.com didn't seem to like these much, giving the 2.0 a 2B and the 1.51 a 3A. Should I rule these out based on this?

I want to get the best radiant I can possibly find between 1.5 and 2.0 carats - any advice? Thank you so much in advance!!!

 

[Nicrez]

I personally would never get a radiant without seeing it first. If possible do a search on this website for Radiants, and there is quite a bit of info to learn. Also, it''s a tough stone, but I have one and absolutely love it, since it''s so unique and beautiful...

I suggest seeing these stones and possibly getting them to an appraiser or get a local jeweler to bring some in for you, perhaps even these, IF THEY CAN...

Good luck and keep searching!

 

[diamondsbylauren]

HI Mocho,
Congratulations on your engagement!

I don''t know why folks might feel a Radiant is "controversial" at all- but of course there''s a lot of info floating around out there.

To get a better idea of what you saw- what was it that you didn''t like about the one''s you''ve seen?

 

[valeria101]

There isn't any way to guess brilliance by table & depth alone.... is that why you say it is a controversial purchase ?

That doesn't seem to work for any cut - it just so happens that the rounds got more attention and more standards. It helps that the task appears easier for rounds too.

AGA doesn't predict brilliance, and they do not say that everything aside A1 is crap either.

True enough, Blue nile does not ptovide any opportunity to take a look at these stones before buying one. You do get that return persiod, but then... there is some amount of hassle and you get to see just one diamond at a time and not free of charge (shipping, probably appraisal too). Would pictures help ? Anything but lining up a dozen stones on the counter ?

Honestly, the second sounds nice to me, just because is not overly deep and has a decently high crown... and it's perfectly square and almost the same size face up as the 2 carat only lighter. Some would say "extra thin" girdle is to be avoided, but I am not sure this is a drastic sentence - as in "avoid it at all costs".

 

[asblackrock]

Hi mocho
I am just a novice, but I have done a fair amount of research on radiant/princess cuts as my nephew is getting engaged this year and his GF would like this cut.

I have learned that the numbers are only a guide for weeding out most of the bad performers and that the advice of someone with a very experienced eye is the best way of buying. I would email someone like Brian at Whiteflash, or Robin & Todd at Niceice and explain that you would like a spectacular stone and I would then rely on their judgement. These stones need to be seen in the flesh.

 

[icelady]

Mocho,

I have a Radiant too, and I love it. Mine is not branded, but it was the most beautiful stone out of all the ones I saw. I agree with Nic about having to see them.

Also, David from diamondsbylauren.com is a real Radiant buff! You may want to check out that site.

If I had gone strickly by the numbers I would have passed up my stone. I am glad that I viewed it because it is a very firey and beautiful radiant stone.

Good luck on your search!

 

[diamondsman]

Hi,
It really all depends on the shape you are looking for? Most people like their Radiants to be Rectangular Shapes.
You really have to look at all the measurments(ratio)divid the length by the width ,depth should be up to the mid 70% , table should be up to the mid 70%, etc... and ask an experts advise to help you.
This is a substainal amount of money that you are about to spend and you should be getting a very nice stone.

I am sure that most internet sites would try to do their best to help you get the right stone.

 

[mocho]

Thanks for all the helpful responses! And thanks for the engagement congrats but its a little early - I am not asking until two weeks from now!

I thought radiants were controversial because in a thread I read here there was someone saying they leak light and was comparing them to crushed glass. Ouch. At the stores I have looked most people were quite positive on them.

The ones I have seen so far in the range I am looking at were a 1.5, H, VS1 that was quite nice but I want more. It was $12k and comparing online that didnt look like a great price. I also saw a 2 carat, F, VS1 that didn't look as nice as the 1.5, H in terms of brilliance. Nothing else I have seen has really jumped out and for that amount of dough I want to get her a killer ring. She wouldn't want anything really big so ideally it would be an extremely well cut brilliant diamond, D-F, VS1 or better around 1.75 carats. I am going to a store this weekend that specializes in branded Original Radiants, I haven't been to the store yet but I can tell from the address its probably not going to have good values. Thanks to the info from here though at least I will be able to work on them.

I have found lots online and everyone is really helpful but I am worried about buying before I see it. Pictures would totally help and some sites have shown me pictures which is great. Another problem is I would need to get it, like it, get it appraised, have her accept the proposal (!) and like the ring all within the return period in case she would prefer something else because there is a real possibility she might think its too big. Seems stressful, especially as one place with a great sounding diamond (1.67, F, VS1, 7.39x6.67x4.15, 62.2 depth, 65% table, 8.4% crown-maybe that's not high enough crown?) only has a 10 day return period, which is tough because I am asking her while we are on a 5 day vacation.

thanks again for the help - I will keep you posted.....

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Well, I congratulated you in advance cuz she got to say yes, right?

Someone here mentioned that you'd want depth and table in the mid '70's- although Radiant Cuts can look very attractive in the mid '70's - generally, depths in the '60's are preferable- as with table too.
Again, this does not mean that a radiant with depth /table in the mid '70s won't be attractive- but it will look smaller than a dimaond of identical weight with a depth in the '60's.

If you have a dealer of the Original Radiant Cut nearby, it would probably be a great idea to go and look. The Original Stones are generally very nice.


A lot of folks feel like Nicrez- these people prefer to walk into a jewelry store and buy a diamond as opposed to buying on online. Of course the store offers a nice place to walk into - but this all costs money.
So the choice is generally- pay less from an online merchant, or spend more for the priveledge of buying at a B/M store. Although the price you were quoted is a LOT more than you can find if you have an aggresive dealer nearby- OR compared to online pricing.



The subject of light leakage IS controversial- mainly because some people feel this is important, while others ( myself included) feel this measurement is meaningless.
The "bucket of crushed ice" look iis an element of the Radiant Cut which many people find enormously attractive- but when you test for "light leakage" this aspect makes a radiant look less "good" than a round diamond. Regardless of the "Light Leakage" I prefer a Radiant Cut to Round Brilliant- of course this is individual taste.


Vacation and money back guarantees: If the seller you are working with is not willing to extend the money back period to allow you to go on vacation to ask your honey- find another dealer. Your request is totally reasonable.

I always suggest that folks buy ring and diamond at the same place- this should mean your money back period will not even begin till a ring is made.



PS thank you Icelady!!!!

 

[mocho]

Thanks that is very helpful!

What about crown height - does higher crown height make it look bigger/ brighter/ anything?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

I''d say between 9-16%- but remember- crown height by itself is meaningless- you need to look at the entire stone to see what tact the cutter has used to get the result.
That''s why buying by numbers does not work. Different combinations produce different effects.

 

[mocho]

Well I have been looking at a lot of diamonds on-line and B&M. The best B&M guy is getting some more for me to look at this weekend. He seems passionate about diamonds and was informative and accomodating. Best stone so far is a 1.66 D VS2, I don''t have the exact dimensions but it is an Original Radiant and cut to those standards. Very beautiful and looked great compared to some others he had. Inclusions were not visible under a scope, not sure what magnification it was at but I was able to see some in the other stones he showed me through the same scope. Price was $13,400 which although more expensive than online was much more reasonable than the other B&M stones I saw and seems pretty fair to me. Am I right in thinking that is a decent price? Is it reasonable to expect some bargaining?

I also found a good one online - 1.66 D VS1 for $12,700. It came out a 2A on the diy at gemappraisers.com, the crown seemed high at 16.3% with a 66.5 table and 66.6 depth. It sounds great, but I can''t get a picture of it. Also some of the #s on the sarin report they sent me didn''t match the GIA - is that normal or was this a mistake?

I am going to be making the purchase within a few days and am a little nervous here, any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated! THANKS!

 

[diamond_girl]

I was looking for a similar ring and went searching for ideal specs for a radiant. The specs ideally should be in the ones listed on this site (Each stone must meet both the traditional criteria and ideally the RCDC as well.) http://www.washingtondiamond.com/pages/rad-opt.asp Condensed verson posted below.


RCDC Original Radiant Cut Diamond Measurements
Adjusted Depth Percentage: 48% - 63%
Adjusted Crown Height: 7.5% - 14%
Adjusted Pavilion Depth 38% - 53%
Traditional GIA Measurements
Traditional Depth Percentage: 55% - 69% *
Table Percentage: 58%-69%
Girdle: very thin - slightly thick**
Culet: none-small ***
Polish: good
Symmetry: good
* Traditional depth percentages of up to 72% are acceptable if the length to width ratio exceeds 1.35 - 1.
** Girdles described by the GIA as "extremely thin," "thick," "very thick" or "extremely thick," are not acceptable.
*** Culets described by the GIA as "medium" or "large" are not acceptable.
Minimum surface areas for carat weights (includes area lost due to cut corners):
Carat Weight Minimum Spread(in square millimeters)
0.75 25.0
1.00 31.5
1.50 41.5
2.00 50.5
3.00 66.5

Hope this helps
Diamond_Girl

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Mocho,
Sounds like a good deal on the 1.66ct. In my opinion, $700 is a lot of money- BUT- on a purchase of this amount, I would not let it determine my actions.
I don''t think the RCDC dealer will have a lot of room to negociate on that price.

NOTE- Please make sure that the diamond is actually an Original Radiant Cut.
The way to do this is to make sure it has a certificate from Radiant Cut Diamond Corp.
Here''s what that looks like

Please feel free let me know if we can be of any assistance

 

[mocho]

All right, I picked a diamond. 1.59 D VS2 Original Radiant (although I haven''t seen the Original Radiant certificate yet, just the GIA - I will make sure I do - thanks David!) 65.5% depth, 64% table 7.9x6.18x4.05 medium girdle, good/good medium girdle. The jeweler showed me this against several others and it was by far the most beautiful. $13k which seems to me like an ok price, not great but not a complete rip-off and the guy is going do do some custom setting work after my gf gets the initial ring. I am quite psyched with the stone!!

I think I probably found a better one online (that 1.66 D VS1 mentioned above), it was listed at a few places but it was still at the manufacturers and I wasn''t able to talk to anyone who had seen it. Plus with the custom setting work I think it makes sense to go with this jeweller, I have no idea what type of setting she is going to end up with and he is well known around the city for good work and is going to do it at a discount because of the diamond purchase. But anyway I am very happy with this one (and pretty sure she will be too) so I am not going to worry about the other one that may have been better (and cheaper!).

Thanks all for your help!