Quick question on Spinels

[GliderPoss]

Ok, will try to make this snappy!

As mentioned in my other post I love lavender/lilac spinels and would like to think about getting one as my repacement ering next year.

Especially fond of ones on Dan Stairs'' website.

Question is it seems that many gemstones go "dark" in sunlight. I also looked carefully through the vendor/owner photo thread and this seems common.

Why is this? All gemstones look terrific under incandesant lighting but I''d like somthing that also sparkled outside and retained it''s pastel colour.

I''m happy to go for a very pale spinel with just a hint of colour in order to achieve this.

Is this an unrealistic desire? Can someone pretty please explain this? Is there a particular cut I should go for?

Thanks very much.

 

[T L]

Date: 12/21/2009 8:04:15 PM
Author:HotPozzum
Ok, will try to make this snappy!

As mentioned in my other post I love lavender/lilac spinels and would like to think about getting one as my repacement ering next year.

Especially fond of ones on Dan Stairs' website.

Question is it seems that many gemstones go 'dark' in sunlight. I also looked carefully through the vendor/owner photo thread and this seems common.

Why is this? All gemstones look terrific under incandesant lighting but I'd like somthing that also sparkled outside and retained it's pastel colour.

I'm happy to go for a very pale spinel with just a hint of colour in order to achieve this.

Is this an unrealistic desire? Can someone pretty please explain this? Is there a particular cut I should go for?

Thanks very much.

Not all gems go dark in sunlight. Some go dark in incandescent light, and look much better in sunlight.

I have three violet/lavender spinels that look great in sunlight/incandescent light, and although they're medium-light in tone, they're definitely not pale with a hint of color. They definitely do not go black or extinct. I think you can find a spinel with enough color and where it can look good no matter the light source. Spinels are difficult because they do tend to shift to a more grey or brown color, but ones do exist that do not color shift to grey and/or brown. It just takes a lot of investigation to find one, and you need to ask the vendor the questions about the color shift.

 

[chrono]

No, definitely not many stones will go dark/extinct under sunlight. It's just that some are better indoors and others outdoors. That said, most gems actually look their best under sunlight (but not necessarily direct sunlight). You should not have to sacrifice tone in order to get a spinel that will look lovely both indoors and outdoors. It's also a realistic goal which requires you to ask the vendor these very same questions about the stone you are interested in.

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 12/21/2009 8:04:15 PM
Author:HotPozzum

Question is it seems that many gemstones go ''dark'' in sunlight. I also looked carefully through the vendor/owner photo thread and this seems common.


Why is this? All gemstones look terrific under incandesant lighting but I''d like somthing that also sparkled outside and retained it''s pastel colour.

The reason that most stones don''t look as good in sunlight as in indoor light or light from an overcast sky is that sunlight is very bright and is all coming from the same direction. Any light entering the stone from other areas looks pale and almost non-existent compared to the sunlight and so the areas reflecting that light look dark in comparison to the small areas that are reflecting the sunlight. The only stones which can benefit from sunlight are those stones which have some internal inclusions which diffuse the light and cause the stone to look like it''s "glowing". Examples of this would be some darker sapphires which have very fine silk or star sapphires which show intense stars in sunlight. Some stones which are fluorescent can also look really good in sunlight. This could include rubies, some spinels and even some diamonds. Finding a pastel stone which looks good in sunlight may be a challenge. You might find such a stone in a lighter pink spinel as some of them not only fluoresce but can have internal twinning inclusions which aren''t all that apparent until they get into the sunlight. The attached picture is one of a spinel which I had at one time which showed an almost opalescent glow in sunlight. I''d write to some of the cutters and see if anyone has some of this stuff, it''s a real knockout, (I only had one piece and sure wish that I could find more of it).

 

[GliderPoss]

Oooooooooooohhhh!! I think I understand. Thanks Michael E.

It seems it may be a challenge getting what I want but Chrono is encouraging (read: enabler. LOL) as always so I shall keep on searching!

 

[T L]

Date: 12/22/2009 12:30:40 AM
Author: Michael_E

Date: 12/21/2009 8:04:15 PM
Author:HotPozzum

Question is it seems that many gemstones go ''dark'' in sunlight. I also looked carefully through the vendor/owner photo thread and this seems common.


Why is this? All gemstones look terrific under incandesant lighting but I''d like somthing that also sparkled outside and retained it''s pastel colour.

The reason that most stones don''t look as good in sunlight as in indoor light or light from an overcast sky is that sunlight is very bright and is all coming from the same direction. Any light entering the stone from other areas looks pale and almost non-existent compared to the sunlight and so the areas reflecting that light look dark in comparison to the small areas that are reflecting the sunlight. The only stones which can benefit from sunlight are those stones which have some internal inclusions which diffuse the light and cause the stone to look like it''s ''glowing''. Examples of this would be some darker sapphires which have very fine silk or star sapphires which show intense stars in sunlight. Some stones which are fluorescent can also look really good in sunlight. This could include rubies, some spinels and even some diamonds. Finding a pastel stone which looks good in sunlight may be a challenge. You might find such a stone in a lighter pink spinel as some of them not only fluoresce but can have internal twinning inclusions which aren''t all that apparent until they get into the sunlight. The attached picture is one of a spinel which I had at one time which showed an almost opalescent glow in sunlight. I''d write to some of the cutters and see if anyone has some of this stuff, it''s a real knockout, (I only had one piece and sure wish that I could find more of it).

Michael,
You mean direct sunlight vs indirect sunlight. I have many stones without silk, or fluor, that look wonderful in indirect sunlight. I actually have a couple of cuprians that are native cut that look more saturated in direct sunlight, but that''s probably rare.

 

[Arkteia]

If you find something can you keep me in mind as well? I just got my first Mahenge spinel - Eric from Swala said it was "neon" - well, it looks like it in evening light and sort of fades in daylight. In fact, in daylight it doesn''t look impressive at all.

 

[T L]

Date: 12/22/2009 11:25:12 PM
Author: crasru
If you find something can you keep me in mind as well? I just got my first Mahenge spinel - Eric from Swala said it was 'neon' - well, it looks like it in evening light and sort of fades in daylight. In fact, in daylight it doesn't look impressive at all.

Oh that's too bad. Did you tell Eric about it? Was it expensive if you don't mind my asking?

Some spinels tend to shift color, and the color tends to look better in one light source vs the other. My big gripe with the Mahenges, and this is personal preference, is that they all seem to have some orange in them to my eyes, even just the tiniest amount, and that drives me a bit bonkers. Someone please tell me if there's any without any orange at all. That's just me though, and it's not anything bad about them, I just don't like orange in my pinks or reds. Some people do

. That's why I have been holding off on one. I like blue in my pinks, so I stick with pink tourmalines, rubellites, and spinels from other mines. I know, people must think I'm loopy.

 

[1001smiles]

Date: 12/22/2009 11:47:37 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 12/22/2009 11:25:12 PM
Author: crasru
If you find something can you keep me in mind as well? I just got my first Mahenge spinel - Eric from Swala said it was ''neon'' - well, it looks like it in evening light and sort of fades in daylight. In fact, in daylight it doesn''t look impressive at all.

Oh that''s too bad. Did you tell Eric about it? Was it expensive if you don''t mind my asking?

Some spinels tend to shift color, and the color tends to look better in one light source vs the other. My big gripe with the Mahenges, and this is personal preference, is that they all seem to have some orange in them to my eyes, even just the tiniest amount, and that drives me a bit bonkers. Someone please tell me if there''s any without any orange at all. That''s just me though, and it''s not anything bad about them, I just don''t like orange in my pinks or reds. Some people do

. That''s why I have been holding off on one. I like blue in my pinks, so I stick with pink tourmalines, rubellites, and spinels from other mines. I know, people must think I''m loopy.

That''s funny, I thought I was loopy too. I ordered a little Morogoro pink spinel from GemRite, which looked bubblegum pink on the photo. When I got it, it looked orangish to me in some light and I e-mailed John that I wanted to return it for that reason. He said he''s never heard anybody make that comment before. I''m glad I''m not alone here...

 

[T L]

I saw the orange in $2K/ct spinels in person, and it drove me nuts. Again, that's just my personal preference not to have orange. I think when stones (any species of stone) have too much orange as a secondary, it might start showing some brown, and therefore, less saturation of color. The $2K/ct spinels I saw just had the tiniest bit of orange, but it was enough for me to say, "no thanks," especially for that price. I think most people wouldn't have noticed the orange at all, and many people were standing next to me ooogling and drooling at them, but I was wearing a vivid red/pink rubellite, and the orange in these spinels were quite obvious next to it. Don't get me wrong, these were phenomenal stones, but I don't want any orange in a stone unless it's a pure orange spessartite!! LOL!! I am not a fan of padparadschas for the same reason, but many people adore them, so nothing wrong with a little orange, it's just not my thing.

 

[chrono]

Date: 12/22/2009 11:25:12 PM
Author: crasru
If you find something can you keep me in mind as well? I just got my first Mahenge spinel - Eric from Swala said it was ''neon'' - well, it looks like it in evening light and sort of fades in daylight. In fact, in daylight it doesn''t look impressive at all.

I''m very surprised to read about it not looking as good in daylight. Have you contacted Eric and asked him about this? Mahenges are famous because they look great under every sort of lighting, so to read about it not performing under daylight conditions is disturbing. If anything, my Mahenge (also from Eric) looks very ruby-like under the sun.

 

[GliderPoss]

Ok two more questions:

Can spinel be cut as a concave cut? Would this help with brilliance?

and who ELSE cuts concave apart from RH? I luv his stuff but it''s pretty $$$$....

Thanks again....

MERRY XMAS TO ALL!

 

[T L]

I don't see why a spinel couldn't be cut concave cut, but to tell you the truth, I like lots of tiny little facets on them, like Portuguese cuts, to really bring out all their scintillation and sparkle.

Gene of Precisiongem.com has a concave cutting machine, and he sometimes cuts concave cuts. Not sure if he ever did it in a spinel though. Maybe he'll chime in later and explain why.

 

[lelser]

I sometimes cut concaves, but to me, size matters. Anything under 3-4 cts doesn''t show the concave cutting well enough (again, for my taste) to be worth the extra cutting time.

 

[Lovinggems]

Date: 12/22/2009 11:25:12 PM
Author: crasru
If you find something can you keep me in mind as well? I just got my first Mahenge spinel - Eric from Swala said it was ''neon'' - well, it looks like it in evening light and sort of fades in daylight. In fact, in daylight it doesn''t look impressive at all.

Oh does it fluorescences under UV light? Which spinel did you get? Sorry to hear the spinel didn''t work for you.

 

[1001smiles]

Date: 12/23/2009 12:24:33 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
I saw the orange in $2K/ct spinels in person, and it drove me nuts. Again, that''s just my personal preference not to have orange. I think when stones (any species of stone) have too much orange as a secondary, it might start showing some brown, and therefore, less saturation of color. The $2K/ct spinels I saw just had the tiniest bit of orange, but it was enough for me to say, ''no thanks,'' especially for that price. I think most people wouldn''t have noticed the orange at all, and many people were standing next to me ooogling and drooling at them, but I was wearing a vivid red/pink rubellite, and the orange in these spinels were quite obvious next to it. Don''t get me wrong, these were phenomenal stones, but I don''t want any orange in a stone unless it''s a pure orange spessartite!! LOL!! I am not a fan of padparadschas for the same reason, but many people adore them, so nothing wrong with a little orange, it''s just not my thing.

Hi, TL. Is that the reason your returned the Mahenge''s from multicolour this summer, because they had organge? Or was there something else you didn''t like?

 

[T L]

Date: 12/24/2009 4:56:22 PM
Author: 1001smiles

Date: 12/23/2009 12:24:33 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
I saw the orange in $2K/ct spinels in person, and it drove me nuts. Again, that''s just my personal preference not to have orange. I think when stones (any species of stone) have too much orange as a secondary, it might start showing some brown, and therefore, less saturation of color. The $2K/ct spinels I saw just had the tiniest bit of orange, but it was enough for me to say, ''no thanks,'' especially for that price. I think most people wouldn''t have noticed the orange at all, and many people were standing next to me ooogling and drooling at them, but I was wearing a vivid red/pink rubellite, and the orange in these spinels were quite obvious next to it. Don''t get me wrong, these were phenomenal stones, but I don''t want any orange in a stone unless it''s a pure orange spessartite!! LOL!! I am not a fan of padparadschas for the same reason, but many people adore them, so nothing wrong with a little orange, it''s just not my thing.

Hi, TL. Is that the reason your returned the Mahenge''s from multicolour this summer, because they had organge? Or was there something else you didn''t like?

I returned them because they did not appear to my eyes to match the GIA gemset saturation that they were graded as on MC.com''s site, and they lacked saturation

They were also too sleepy (too much silk in one of them).

If they had more saturation, I could have lived with the orange, for the price. However, it wasn''t the orange in them that was the determining factor for why I returned them. They were relatively inexpensive for Mahenges, so I guess I got what I paid for. Now if I was buying a Mahenge that was 1K/ct or more, I probably would want less orange.

 

[LD]

Crasnu - I''m really sorry to hear about your Spinel. Please do speak with Eric about it. I bought a much less expensive Mahenge Spinel from AJS and I have to say that it''s neon in all lights. There''s a thread on it somewhere. It has very strong fluorescence. I wonder if that helps? Do you have a small UV penlight? It might be worth testing it to see - that may be the reason (or not).

In terms of Spinels, I have a bracelet of multi coloured Spinels and unlike other gemstones these don''t differ as much in daylight / incandescent as other gemstones (i.e. Sapphires).