questions about insurance

[sera]

I''m on total brain overload trying to read through all the insurance threads... whether I should go with Chubb or JM, what I need to do, etc. I guess I''m leaning towards Chubb since it won''t yet be appraised and my understanding is Chubb doesn''t require an appraisal but JM does? A lot of the threads were pretty old so I''m not sure who the majority of current members insure with between the two.

OK, so IN LESS THAN A WEEK I get my diamond!!!

I''m freakin'' out here! yay yay yay I''m gonna bling I''m gonna bling!

Here are my questions...
Because it came to GOG already set, I do not have all the images and tests etc. (when I get it re-set, I will send it back and get the full work up!) done on it. Is the AGS report adequate information to get it insured through Chubb?

I can''t just "get insurance" via their website or by calling them- I must go through an agent? Is there a fee for the agent on top of the cost of the policy? Must I meet with an agent in person? Can anyone recommend an agent (I''m in the L.A. area).

Thanks in advance for any information- I really appreciate it... I''m just feeling kinda at a loss here and I certainly do not want to be wearing my ring without insurance!

 

[Regular Guy]

Talk to an agent at Chubb.

Try either/both:

Touchstone through WF''s link (OK to not buy there and use...but probably need to spend over $10K)
Total Dollar

 

[stebbo]

Date: 11/15/2007 1:34:59 AM
Author:sera

...
Is the AGS report adequate information to get it insured through Chubb?
...
I can't just 'get insurance' via their website or by calling them- I must go through an agent? Is there a fee for the agent on top of the cost of the policy? Must I meet with an agent in person? Can anyone recommend an agent (I'm in the L.A. area).

A sales receipt is adequate, no appraisal or reports are necessary unless the value is over $50k.

Must go through an agent but don't waste your time going down the agent list on Chubb's site--many aren't writing standalone policies anymore. Call the agents Ira suggested. Their fee is included in the premium, hence they won't write a policy for anything under a $200 premium a year (~$10,000 of cover). No need to meet in person.

 

[denverappraiser]

Why aren’t you getting it appraised?

Meeting the insurance companies’ minimum paperwork requirements is easy. It’s consumer requirements that are difficult. GoG normally provides sufficient documentation with the sale to meet the minimum for JM or any of the other major insurers. If it's not automatic, ask them and they can probably help you out. When you have it reset you can submit an 'update' to reflect your new mounting. As has been pointed out above, Chubb requires even less.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[sera]

Date: 11/15/2007 9:15:16 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Why aren’t you getting it appraised?


Meeting the insurance companies’ minimum paperwork requirements is easy. It’s consumer requirements that are difficult. GoG normally provides sufficient documentation with the sale to meet the minimum for JM or any of the other major insurers. If it''s not automatic, ask them and they can probably help you out. When you have it reset you can submit an ''update'' to reflect your new mounting. As has been pointed out above, Chubb requires even less.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

We are getting it appraised when it is reset. It is just in a temporary white gold setting right now. I will get the ring next week. So in a few months, when it''s ready to be reset, it will go back to GOG for all the IS images, H&A patterns, BrillanceScope and all that, then sent to the designer we choose, then appraised when it''s finished, and the insurance will be updated.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 11/15/2007 9:15:16 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Why aren’t you getting it appraised?


Meeting the insurance companies’ minimum paperwork requirements is easy. It’s consumer requirements that are difficult.

Agreed for replacement policies, but the only reason I can imagine the consumer needing more for Chubb insurance purposes is comprehensive proof for the 150% clause (where market value must be established).

 

[sera]

Thanks stebbo and Ira for the info... I will check out those agents.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 11/15/2007 7:10:38 PM
Author: stebbo

Date: 11/15/2007 9:15:16 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Why aren’t you getting it appraised?


Meeting the insurance companies’ minimum paperwork requirements is easy. It’s consumer requirements that are difficult.

Agreed for replacement policies, but the only reason I can imagine the consumer needing more for Chubb insurance purposes is comprehensive proof for the 150% clause (where market value must be established).

Not true though, Stebbo. A sales receipt and lab report were enough to insure with Chubb. I think Neil is referring to something else.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 11/15/2007 8:41:11 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 11/15/2007 7:10:38 PM

Author: stebbo

Date: 11/15/2007 9:15:16 AM

Author: denverappraiser

Why aren’t you getting it appraised?



Meeting the insurance companies’ minimum paperwork requirements is easy. It’s consumer requirements that are difficult.

Agreed for replacement policies, but the only reason I can imagine the consumer needing more for Chubb insurance purposes is comprehensive proof for the 150% clause (where market value must be established).

Not true though, Stebbo. A sales receipt and lab report were enough to insure with Chubb. I think Neil is referring to something else.

Emphasis on the word 'consumer' above DS in case it read incorrectly.

The way I interpreted Neil's post was sera should be getting an appraisal for the sake of her best interest with insurance even though Chubb doesn't require it. I can't think of a reason for that (for Chubb) apart from the one I noted. Neil's post makes total sense (to me

)for replacement policies though.

Interesting that you say Chubb required the report, given that their policy is not jewelry specific. I wonder what would happen for say camera equipment?

 

[denverappraiser]

There are several reasons people seek appraisals. Although documentation for replacement type insurance is the most obvious it’s definitely not the only one.

With most PS type clients, they’ve gone through an enormous amount of effort to choose exactly the right stone and exactly the right setting. If it becomes necessary to replace it, the appraisal submitted will become the purchase order for that replacement. If you considered items like cut grading and light performance in your shopping decision, you need to have this documented in your appraisal if you want them to be considered by the company in the replacement. As all regulars here know, all ‘certified’ stones of a particular set of grading parameters are not the same.

In the case of declared value policies the issue comes up most often with partial loss situations. Usually this is damage or a lost stone. These are handled the same way with cash policies as with the replacement policies. The company has the option to repair the damage and compensate for any loss in value if any. Whether they cash out the policy or choose the repair option becomes a negotiation between the insured and the adjuster. The decision will be determined based on the appraisal, receipt or whatever you gave them and the ‘loss in value’ will be based on comparing the ‘before’ and ‘after’ descriptions and the noting difference between the two. If it’s not mentioned in the ‘before’, you can’t claim a loss in value when it’s not in the ‘after’.

For the 150% Chubb thing to apply you must actually replace the piece and you must demonstrate that the replacement you chose is actually comparable to the lost one and not an upgrade. You are, of course, welcome to buy something better if you like but the company is only obligated to pay for what you lost. Anything above and beyond that is up to you. Once again, the documentation for this is the description from the original paperwork as compared to the documentation for the new one you bought.

One of the primary reasons people seek appraisals on new items is to get a final quality control check done by an uninvolved expert. It has little or nothing to do with insurance. This resolves craftsmanship issues on the mounting, possible unknown or unreported damage that may have occurred during the assembly process and the possibility of mismatched components. In the case of problems, it result is an expert explanation of exactly what the problem is and what can be done to resolve it quickly and as painlessly as possible. Unresolved minor problems can become major problems later on and dealing with it up front is a far better solution.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[stebbo]

Date: 11/15/2007 10:17:29 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 11/15/2007 7:10:38 PM
Author: stebbo

Agreed for replacement policies, but the only reason I can imagine the consumer needing more for Chubb insurance purposes is comprehensive proof for the 150% clause (where market value must be established).

... In the case of declared value policies the issue comes up most often with partial loss situations...

Now I can think of two reasons

Heh another thing I've heard about the 150% business (which makes sense) is it only applies up to the maximum total amount you have insured. So have 2 items insured for $10,000 each and lose one, it might apply, but only 1 item was insured, there is no coverage to suck from. Any idea Neil?

 

[clipper37]

I''m going through the necessary motions associated with diamond post-purchase events~got my appraisal on the new stone; after a search online I found Chubb and Atlantic to offer ''agreed value'' stand alone policies, which, after reading here and elsewhere, led me to believe agreed value policy type is most fair towards the holder.

While an agreed value policy won''t matter much in regards to an appraisal(basing on conjecture), should I be concerned with how little was written on my actual listing on the appraisal? All he wrote was: carat, color, cut, and report number(for GIA)...he was a certified GIA appraiser, listed here on pricescope, but I had read elsewhere:

''...appraisers can cause huge problems when a claim occurs. Under describing the item is about the most common one.''

My thoughts are that the above statement may moreso pertain to highly specific jewlery, not necessarly only a round brilliant stone, which is what I had appraised...but I wanted to check with you guys first...any thoughts, diamond insurance is new lore to me.

ps-ellen i''ll make a better topic next time for you to avenge my previous hubris
___________________

 

[clipper37]

denver appraiser is the man...now i got it....so if you only have 6/7K on a stone Chubb is a dead end tho? I''m surprised by that. Back to the drawing board...

 

[stebbo]

Date: 11/15/2007 10:54:39 PM
Author: clipper37
denver appraiser is the man...now i got it....so if you only have 6/7K on a stone Chubb is a dead end tho? I'm surprised by that. Back to the drawing board...

Also Atlantic want your home insured with them too I think you'll find (despite what a hundred web sites say who copy each other).

 

[sera]

Date: 11/15/2007 8:37:31 AM
Author: stebbo

A sales receipt is adequate, no appraisal or reports are necessary unless the value is over $50k.


Must go through an agent but don''t waste your time going down the agent list on Chubb''s site--many aren''t writing standalone policies anymore. Call the agents Ira suggested. Their fee is included in the premium, hence they won''t write a policy for anything under a $200 premium a year (~$10,000 of cover). No need to meet in person.

So does that mean if it''s under $10,000, you must pay for $10,000 amt. of coverage or they will not write a policy for it at all? For less than that amt. it would be better to go with JM?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 11/15/2007 11:24:53 PM
Author: sera


So does that mean if it''s under $10,000, you must pay for $10,000 amt. of coverage or they will not write a policy for it at all? For less than that amt. it would be better to go with JM?

It probably means that they will not insure an item that is valued less than $10,000. That could mean sales receipt ot inflated appraisal. But I still wouldn''t want to pay the premium for an inflated appraisal.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 11/15/2007 11:24:53 PM
Author: sera

So does that mean if it''s under $10,000, you must pay for $10,000 amt. of coverage or they will not write a policy for it at all? For less than that amt. it would be better to go with JM?

JM''s minimum premium is $25 - $30 depending on your state.

 

[clipper37]

say someone got a stone from someone who didn''t generate all the optical tests...should they send it to someone to generate this data to supplement the final appraisal, if so, who/how?

 

[sera]

Date: 11/16/2007 12:14:19 AM
Author: stebbo

Date: 11/15/2007 11:24:53 PM

Author: sera


So does that mean if it''s under $10,000, you must pay for $10,000 amt. of coverage or they will not write a policy for it at all? For less than that amt. it would be better to go with JM?

JM''s minimum premium is $25 - $30 depending on your state.

OH lol. OK, so who does insure for $10,000 or under? I won''t be at ten until I get it in it''s permanent setting. Maybe many think it''s useless to insure something worth less than $10,000 but if lost or whatever, we would not have cash to replace it- we would have to save up for a while.

 

[stebbo]

Author: stebbo
JM's minimum premium is $25 - $30 depending on your state.

OH lol. OK, so who does insure for $10,000 or under? I won't be at ten until I get it in it's permanent setting. Maybe many think it's useless to insure something worth less than $10,000 but if lost or whatever, we would not have cash to replace it- we would have to save up for a while.

No, no, that's $25 - $30, not $25k - $30k. And that's the premium, as in yearly payment. As long as your piece is worth around $500 or more, you're ok.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 11/16/2007 12:25:06 AM
Author: sera
OH lol. OK, so who does insure for $10,000 or under? I won''t be at ten until I get it in it''s permanent setting. Maybe many think it''s useless to insure something worth less than $10,000 but if lost or whatever, we would not have cash to replace it- we would have to save up for a while.

Sera,

I''d check yourself with Bill Castro at Total Dollar.

Let us know how it works out.

 

[denverappraiser]

As I understand it, the Chubb valuable articles policy doesn’t really have a mandatory minimum but most of the Chubb agents won’t write one below $10k anyway. I think the root of the problem is that these guys are commission sales people and the commission isn’t all that good on a policy that only collects a few hundred dollars a year. It involves a fair amount of work and a certain amount of liability for them to sign up a new client and Chubb targets their business to a fairly affluent set. They’re a first class company and they want to be the insurer for your mansion, your fleet of cars, your art collection, your yacht, etc. and they want to concentrate their efforts on clients where they think the prospects of this are better. I think they’re being a bit short sighted but each agency is an independent business and they can decline your work if they want. Two well regarded Chubb agents here are Ralph Cohen at www.touchstoneinsurance.com and Bill Castro at www.totaldollar.com. Both are licensed in all 50 states so you can do business with them even if you aren’t in their neighborhood and both have a firm grasp that good clients don’t all look the same and that most start out with modest requests. Being nice and working hard for everybody is the way to have a successful agency. Who would have guessed? They both deserve your business.

Although Chubb offers a fine product, I’m a long time JM client. In part this is because they are the insurer of my business against things like fire, burglary and the like and it was simply convenient to patronize them and in part it’s because I like the prices. The Chubb quote for my personal jewelry was close to triple what JM wants. If the price had been the same I probably would have gone with Chubb. I have no particular problem with the replacement approach but I’m certainly aware of it’s shortcomings. I’m a pretty good shopper and am well connected in the jewelry business. My approach was to personally document all of my lower end items and bind them as part of my homeowners coverage with Farmers. I used to own a jewelry store and my wife has quite a bit of jewelry. I pay extra to raise the jewelry limit on my homeowners policy but still 75% or more of the value is contained in a dozen or so specific items. It’s worth noting that although inexpensive, my homeowners policy, like most, is not an ‘all risk’ sort of policy. These items are not covered against most breakage or unexplained losses for example. Selected things, like my wife’s wedding ring make up a disproportionate amount of the value and I bought a JM personal articles policy to cover those items. This is an all risk policy. On these items I hired a well-regarded and slightly expensive PS appraiser to document them for me. This isn’t because I didn’t know the answers or because the company wouldn’t have accepted a report written by me or some jeweler down the street, it’s because the value of an insurance policy is zero until you need to file a claim and, after you file the claim, the value of the policy is a direct function of the quality of the appraisal. At that point it’s too late to change anything. If I wrote it, the obvious conflict of interest would prevent me from being picky as hell at claims time, something I have every intention of doing if the need should ever arise. In most cases I personally made the piece and I probably would NOT be making the replacement and I’m not an especially easy customer. If I bought the cheapest appraisal I could find, there wouldn’t be sufficient detail to have the claim handled in the way I want, even if I supplied the appraiser with most of the data.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[sera]

Date: 11/16/2007 1:09:49 AM
Author: stebbo

Author: stebbo

JM''s minimum premium is $25 - $30 depending on your state.

OH lol. OK, so who does insure for $10,000 or under? I won''t be at ten until I get it in it''s permanent setting. Maybe many think it''s useless to insure something worth less than $10,000 but if lost or whatever, we would not have cash to replace it- we would have to save up for a while.

No, no, that''s $25 - $30, not $25k - $30k. And that''s the premium, as in yearly payment. As long as your piece is worth around $500 or more, you''re ok.

LOL ok! OY... my brain is just bling-expectant-fried!

 

[sera]

Thanks for the names... I will check with Ralph Cohen at www.touchstoneinsurance.com and Bill Castro at www.totaldollar.com Monday.

 

[sera]

I left a message today with Ralph Cohen and he got back to me the quickest. I chose to go with the Repair/Replacement policy for right now, then when I get it reset I will switch it to the Chubb cash policy. Ralph was very friendly and helpful! Thanks for recommending him.