Question about color

[sjz]

I hope this is the correct place to post this question. I''ve noticed after reading umpteen threads about color that people will compare color grades quite often. Like saying "my J looks as white as my old H" or "my new H looks as white as my old F" and other things to that effect. I have to admit, color has always been one of the lower priorities on my list when I look at stones. I''ve always looked at cut (even before I knew what cut actually referred to I could tell the difference between a stone that look symetrical and had lots of sparkle as opposed to one that look lopsided and dead). Clarity has always been up there neck and neck with cut. Color was just sort of a subjective thing with me. If it looked nice to me, and not dirty gray or the color of frozen lemonaid, I didn''t bother over much with color. If anything, I shied away from some of the higher colored stones because I thought they looked *too* colorless and kind of CZish. Most of the diamonds I''ve purchased have fallen into the near colorless range, usually between H and J, just because that''s usually what looked the best to my eye.

Now, my new diamond is going to be an F. I didn''t choose it for the color, but more because it was in the size and clarity range that I was looking for. There didn''t happen to be anything in a lower color when I was looking (and I looked for several weeks). I''m kind of worried if I''m going to like it or not, being that I usually don''t go for colorless stones. I know that any day the ring is going to be showing up, and I''m starting to get a case of the nervous jitters about it.

My question is this...if J can look the same as an H, and an H can look the same as an F, will an F look that much different than a J? Logic tells me that it will, but after reading all the threads on color, I''m confused. The other part of my question is, if I like the F and it looks noticably *whiter* than my other stones, is it going to make me like my lower colored stones less? Will I now think that they look dirty or ugly? Mabye I''m just freaking out over nothing. I hope so. Any thoughts?

 

[Kaleigh]

I think a lot of it depends on how well cut the diamond is. Very well cut J''s face up extremely white. Just like a well cut H can face up very white as well. However I can see the difference between an F and a H, etc... I am very color sensitive, it''s not a good thing!!!!

 

[sjz]

Date: 8/7/2005 2:05:04 PM
Author: kaleigh
I think a lot of it depends on how well cut the diamond is. Very well cut J''s face up extremely white. Just like a well cut H can face up very white as well. However I can see the difference between an F and a H, etc... I am very color sensitive, it''s not a good thing!!!!

The stone I''m getting is from WF, one of their Expert Selection stones. It''s an ideal cut. The two previous stones I had from WF were both ACA stones. The first one was a J VS2 and the second one was an H SI2. I honestly couldn''t reallly tell any difference in color, but then again, I never had them side by side to compare. My original diamond is a J, not an ideal cut but a good cut. I did think it showed a tinge more color than the two previous stones from WF, even the J. But my old diamond is set in white gold, while the two ideal cut stones I got from WF were set in yellow gold with platinum prongs. I''ve also heard that the color of the metal will make a difference on how the ring faces up color-wise when it''s mounted. The F is going to be in the same yellow gold with platinum prongs.

I know a lot of people think that color automatically means "yellow". I don''t agree, though. I think that it''s just like different shades of white. I know some stones appear more yellowish. I''ve seen some, and didn''t care for them. Don''t care for the grayish or silverish looking stones, either. But the ones that have more ivory or off-white color look nice to me. Kind of like a candle flame, as opposed to a light bulb, as opposed to looking directly into the sun, if that makes any sense.

 

[drkewl]

Kaleigh just about said what I was going to say... you will most probably see a difference between a J and an F from the side, but I don't know how often you'd look at your diamond from a side view. Also it depends on your color sensitivity (some people seem too detect faint traces of yellow/brown at G, while others at I or J.

If you are unsure, go to a local jewlery store, ask to see some ideal cut diamonds with different colors and compare

The way I think of color is this... If you have a vat of white paint, then dump in a little brown or yellow paint and mix it up, sure its still whitISH, but maybe now more slighlty off white as opposed to an exact yellow color

I guess a better word do describe yellow would be a 'warmer' white color such as ivory (which btw is my preference as well!)

 

[sjz]

Date: 8/7/2005 2:15:02 PM
Author: drkewl
Kaleigh just about said what I was going to say... you will most probably see a difference between a J and an F from the side, but I don''t know how often you''d look at your diamond from a side view. Also it depends on your color sensitivity (some people seem too detect faint traces of yellow/brown at G, while others at I or J.

If you are unsure, go to a local jewlery store, ask to see some ideal cut diamonds with different colors and compare

The way I think of color is this... If you have a vat of white paint, then dump in a little brown or yellow paint and mix it up, sure its still whitISH, but maybe now more slighlty off white as opposed to an exact yellow color

I guess a better word do describe yellow would be a ''warmer'' white color such as ivory (which btw is my preference as well!)

I wish I could go to a jewelry store and look at ideal cut diamonds

. Nobody carries those around here. If they do have any, they are usually mounted and I think it''s hard to compare color when the stones are mounted, unless you have stones that are mounted in identical mountings, and how likely is that going to be? I''m sort of stuck in the land of mall/chain stores...Zalesland. Most of the people who work in those places don''t even know what an ideal cut stone is! And it''s not really practical for me to travel 200 miles just to look. We were recently in St. Louis for a few days, and I DESPERATELY wanted to go looking at diamonds, but we had the kiddies in tow, and I don''t think that the suggestion would have gone down too well at the time. We were all a bit cranky, since we were in town during that blistering heat wave. It was like 110 degrees the whole time we were there, and saying that we were all a bit irritable is a bit of an understatement

.

 

[FireGoddess]

I think you''re probably going to be able to tell. Definitely from the side, *maybe* from the top. I say this because I was at the jeweler''s last week and they showed me a pear they had just gotten in. I held it up against my stone and immediately saw the color difference. It was not this overwhelming thing, like "oh my god, this stone is so warm", nor was it the first thing I saw (theirs looked ginormous next to my 1.5 ct, which is the main thing I noticed!)...but I did notice my stone was definitely significantly whiter. This was from the top down...my stone is not accessible in the setting to look at it through the side. It turned out I was comparing my D stone with their H. Soooo...I''m guessing you will see some difference between an F and a J.

 

[drkewl]

You can always ask to have an 'ideal cut' diamond shipped in to view. True they don't normally carry such stones because most buyers are quite uneducated and wouldn't know the difference. Just ask... they will normally says yes and let you know you are under no obligation to buy when it arrives (duh). Get two shipped in with the colors you want to compare... just a thought

couldn't hurt to try!

PS: yesyesyes i know these 'ideal cuts' would probably not be up to par with the ultra unbelievable super duper ideal cuts we tend to dissect into pieces here, but the quality would be at a much better level than normally available so it should help

 

[Mara]

Personally I don''t like lower colors on my hand because they appear ''too white''. Which is why I have been happy with G/H and now J still works for me and my happiness levels. But color is very subjective. I''m not color sensitive, just see that diamonds show shades of ''whiteness'' that go up higher as you go further down the color grade scale (aka J to H to F).

I would say you just have to see it in person to know! Also just because nothing is in inventory right now does not mean in a month things won''t be different. So don''t feel like you have to get an F VVS because it''s there if you aren''t sure thats what you really want.

 

[Regular Guy]

I think you should follow the logical flow of your original observation...

Date: 8/7/2005 2:00:54 PM
Author:sjz

My question is this...if J can look the same as an H, and an H can look the same as an F, will an F look that much different than a J? Logic tells me that it will, but after reading all the threads on color, I''m confused.

I would suppose that your well cut F will look like a D.

Really, I think that well cut F will like other well cut Fs, if they''re all graded right, and especially in your case, with your most recent previous diamonds also being well cut, you''ll be comparing apples to apples.

The advantage of comparing apples to oranges, is that if oranges are cheaper, and you really like oranges anyway, you can choose the orange, pay less, and get something you enjoy. Grapes make this argument fall apart, however.

Hope you''ll be enjoying your new stone!

Regards,

 

[sjz]

Date: 8/7/2005 3:47:28 PM
Author: Mara
Personally I don''t like lower colors on my hand because they appear ''too white''. Which is why I have been happy with G/H and now J still works for me and my happiness levels. But color is very subjective. I''m not color sensitive, just see that diamonds show shades of ''whiteness'' that go up higher as you go further down the color grade scale (aka J to H to F).

I would say you just have to see it in person to know! Also just because nothing is in inventory right now does not mean in a month things won''t be different. So don''t feel like you have to get an F VVS because it''s there if you aren''t sure thats what you really want.

Well, the problem is that, despite what one would think, stones in the 3/4 carat range seem to be in pretty high demand. They apparently fly out of inventory very quickly, where some of the larger more expensive stones tend to hang around longer. I have several larger stones of over 1 carat saved to my wish list, and they have been there for quite a while. On the other hand, stones in that 3/4 to just under a carat range don''t stay there long. Next time I check, they will be marked as "sold". I felt like I had to jump on this one when I found it. I''ve already had too many get away from me.

I suppose a month or two from now, if I''m not comepletely sold on this one and something I like better comes a long, I can trade in again, and all I''m going to be losing is the cost of shipping the stone back and the small fee they might charge to reset the stone. Though that would probably mean trading in for a bigger stone, since I don''t think I''m going to find a more expensive stone than this one of the same size unless I go to something like a D IF. Bob at WF kind of jokingly said that I was going a bit over the top with an F VVS1, but even I think that a D IF would be too much...lol. I actually do want a VVS stone. I could probably live with a VS stone, I have one already and had others in the past. As long as the inclusions are white and I can''t see them AT ALL with the naked eye, I can stand it. But I think I am sort of seeking some sort of perfection thing here. I''ve had a rough couple of years in my personal life, with things going on around me that I couldn''t really control. I''ve had to do the "chin up" thing and make the best of things, but (kind of psychoanylizing myself here) I think I''m craving something perfect and something within the limits of my control. Having an absolutely 100% eyeclean as well as mind clean stone really appeals to me right now. As I''ve pointed out, color has not really ever been a big issue for me. I am not that color sensitive. Yes, I can tell ball park what the color range is in a stone, but unless it''s obviously gray, brown, or yellow looking, it doesn''t bother me. I actually looked at a diamond once that had an almost pink tinge to it. Very pretty. It wasn''t classified as a fancy colored stone, and I honestly don''t remember what the color grade was, but I know it was not in the colorless or near colorless range. My big stress point here is that I''ve almost always gravitated toward the warmer stones, and I''m wondering if there is such a thing as "too white". But my husband thinks that as long as it sparkles enough and I can''t see any thing in it, I''m going to love it. Hope so.

 

[sjz]

Date: 8/7/2005 3:41:10 PM
Author: drkewl
You can always ask to have an ''ideal cut'' diamond shipped in to view. True they don''t normally carry such stones because most buyers are quite uneducated and wouldn''t know the difference. Just ask... they will normally says yes and let you know you are under no obligation to buy when it arrives (duh). Get two shipped in with the colors you want to compare... just a thought

couldn''t hurt to try!

PS: yesyesyes i know these ''ideal cuts'' would probably not be up to par with the ultra unbelievable super duper ideal cuts we tend to dissect into pieces here, but the quality would be at a much better level than normally available so it should help

I don''t know. I wouldn''t have any problem asking them to bring in stones if I was actually considering buying one. But I feel kind of funny about asking them to bring some in when I know I have NO intention of buying one and I just want to look. I know there is no obligation to buy, but I would feel pretty sneaky. I''m one of those almost "brutally" honest people. Not saying there is anything dishonest about asking to have rings brough in, but I''d probably end up telling them right up front that I just want to look, but am buying else where. I just don''t think they''d be so obliging if I did. Besides...it''s a done deal anyway. I''m sure they''ll be shipping out the ring any day now. I saw my old stone is already back in their inventory as of this weekend, which means they''ve probably already taken out of my setting, and either have or are in the process of setting the new one. I know I probably should have had them send the stone out for me to see before I had it set, but I was too impatient. Besides...I hate to say this, but this ring and stone are actually more of a fun thing for me, not a major investment. I already have other diamonds. I just really wanted another one. I don''t know why I''m even stressing so much about it. I honestly wasn''t until this weekend, but now that I know it''s almost here, I have a case of the nerves...lol. Maybe I''m nuts.

 

[heart prongs]

sjz and drkewl...nice use of simile comparing the whites up there! Great comaprison with light sources and paint respectively...klr, English teacher/

prongs

 

[Dancing Fire]

my wife''s wears her I color e-ring with a 5 stone F/G color w-band.if i just glance at it,no...i can''t tell. if i look at it close, then yes...i can tell the difference in color but, to the casual observer, i think it''s pretty hard for them to tell the difference.

 

[sjz]

Ha! I posted last night that the 3/4 carat sized diamonds don''t stay in inventory long...my old stone just went back into the inventory over the weekend and it''s marked SOLD already! I hope whoever got it enjoys it. It is a very nice stone for the money. Now if only WF would hurry up and send the new one out to me! I''m dying over here...lol.

 

[laney]

I just have to say - being a recent bride.. and wearing a "white" dress.

There is white, diamond white, candlelight white, ivory... etc. I didn''t know that there where so many "whites"

Then.. will a diamond white veil look ok with an ivory dress... (yes.. hours of discussion on that one too..)

 

[EZ]

A couple of points:

You mentioned that you don''t compare your current stones. If you keep that trend there shouldn''t be any problem with loving your old stones less after getting the F. Just never compare them side by side.

You do not have to trade up. If you find that you do compare the new and old and you have a problem with what you see then send the new one back. You are out only shipping. You have to be 100% happy or send it back. If it makes you less happy with the stones you have - that''s a perfectly valid reason to reject it. You eat the shipping and wait for one that will make you 100%. Talk to WF (and/or others you are comfortable with) and tell them exactly what you are looking for. I am sure they would love to sell you a stone that they do not have to make up a whole page for. If they know what you want they can get it for you as soon as it comes off their cutting wheel.

Last and not least - when you are spending money it is all about you. If you are 100% happy the chance (odds) of you wanting to come back again is increased tremendously.

Okay, so thats three points, my bad.

 

[headlight]

Date: 8/9/2005 10:04:45 AM
Author: laney
I just have to say - being a recent bride.. and wearing a ''white'' dress.

There is white, diamond white, candlelight white, ivory... etc. I didn''t know that there where so many ''whites''

Then.. will a diamond white veil look ok with an ivory dress... (yes.. hours of discussion on that one too..)

Laney -- I, too, was thinking about the comparison to the "white" wedding dress! You may have worn a white wedding dress, as did I, but they may have not been the same shade... just as two "white" diamonds may vary in "tint". Does that mean that one dress was better than the other? Usually, brides select the specific "shade" of white based on what works with their skin tone, i.e. think about Mara''s comment and how she doesn''t particularly care for super white diamonds against her skin. And, as you, yourself (SJZ/Suzi) stated, you doesn''t particularly care for super white diamonds because they appear "CZish" -- similar to some woman not caring for super white dresses in certain fabrics because they translate as "cheap". I think you are going to love this new stone and appreciate it for its own virtues, just as you will still have an appreciation for any others of varying color grades in your jewelry box -- I think each stone should be judged on its own merit.

 

[sjz]

At any rate, I should find out tomorrow. I got an email from WF that they will probably ship the ring today. I''ve worn my fancy yellow diamond for the past couple of days, just so that I will really appreciate the "whiteness" of the new diamond.

 

[Sundial]

Keep in mind sjz that the color differences between diamonds although noticable is very subtle. I have a new F stone that my husband chose for me (I would have gone G or H) and although I love it I don''t notice it being significantly different from my older diamonds that are higher in color.

 

[sjz]

Date: 8/9/2005 4:56:32 PM
Author: Sundial
Keep in mind sjz that the color differences between diamonds although noticable is very subtle. I have a new F stone that my husband chose for me (I would have gone G or H) and although I love it I don''t notice it being significantly different from my older diamonds that are higher in color.

That''s good to know. Most of my other diamonds are in the H-J range. Even the small diamonds in my band rings and side stone diamonds. I think I got myself worried for nothing, really. F is the low end of colorless. I have seen some D and E diamonds before that looked almost CZish to me, but I think those were not well cut, so even though the color was good, the sparkle just wasn''t there. Most of my diamonds, even though not ideal cut stones, are very well cut stones and have a lot of sparkle, so I didn''t mind going to a colorless range. They still look beautiful to me.

 

[sjz]

Ok, got my ring back. And I''m loving the F! I''m also loving that I can''t see ANYTHING in the stone, even with my 30x loupe! I compared the F with my 3/4 carat J, and honestly, there is no comparison. I still don''t think the J looks bad...there is no yellow or color really looking at the stone face up, and it still looks white to me. But I have to say, in all honesty, that there is a crispness or intensity to the white of the F that the J just doesn''t have. The H stone that I had before this didn''t quite have whatever "it" is, either.

So to answer my own original question, yes there is a very noticable difference between a colorless class diamond and a near colorless class diamond. Dang, now I''d love to see a D

As far as the clarity issue goes, I have tried to go the eye clean route with a lower clarity, and it''s just not for me. I need to stick with the loupe clean diamonds in order to be happy with a stone.

 

[Patty]

I''m glad you love it, Suzi! I didn''t know you were trading again until I saw this post. I can''t wait to see the pictures!!

 

[cflutist]

Sjz, I am so happy you love your new "F".

We should start an "F" thread (or maybe a colorless thread) ala Mara''s
popular "J" threads?

I always felt that they were a good value as far as color goes.

When I was shopping for my 2ct, I was looking for an F-SI1 but
ended up with 2.05 ct D-VS2 at the time (198 because that
was what was available.

Websailor lucked out when shopping for my pear, they found
the F-SI1 combo I was looking for (D in a 3 ct was cost prohibitive).

And yes, I could tell the difference between my D and F side by side.
Also remember that diamonds will show more color as they get larger.

 

[sjz]

Date: 8/10/2005 12:45:17 PM
Author: Patty
I''m glad you love it, Suzi! I didn''t know you were trading again until I saw this post. I can''t wait to see the pictures!!

I didn''t really say much about it publicly, because I didn''t upgrade to a bigger stone, but one of better clarity and color. I know that goes against the majority concensus around here, and I was thinking people might try to talk me out of this stone in favor of a bigger one of lower clarity or color. I know, silly, but there it is. I''ll try and get some pics up soon. I''ve been having trouble lately getting my pics to upload. I''ve tried several times to post pics of my new ruby ring, and my new jewelry box (which is full of all my sparklies already) but for some reason my pics won''t load

. I''ll keep trying!

 

[sjz]

Date: 8/10/2005 1:01:08 PM
Author: cflutist
Sjz, I am so happy you love your new ''F''.

We should start an ''F'' thread (or maybe a colorless thread) ala Mara''s
popular ''J'' threads?

I always felt that they were a good value as far as color goes.

When I was shopping for my 2ct, I was looking for an F-SI1 but
ended up with 2.05 ct D-VS2 at the time (198 because that
was what was available.

Websailor lucked out when shopping for my pear, they found
the F-SI1 combo I was looking for (D in a 3 ct was cost prohibitive).

And yes, I could tell the difference between my D and F side by side.
Also remember that diamonds will show more color as they get larger.

Thanks Cflutist! An ''F'' thread might be fun (if I can get take some good pics of mine and get them to load, that is...lol).

To be honest, I wasn''t gunning for an F this time specifically. But I''ve been looking for a while for a nice stone in that size range in the VVS category. They aren''t that easy to come by! I saw a lot of H-J SI1''s and SI2''s, and a handful of VS stones in the same color range. I was initially looking for something G-H and VVS1-VS1. This stone kept popping up on my search, so I decided to give it a try. I''ve never really leaned toward stones that were anything out of the H-J range before, hence my concern over how I would like an F. Plus, I had a case of the nerves as the time got closer to WF shipping it out. Call me crazy.

I am sooooo glad I took the leap and got the F. While I still love my old J, I think that this F blows it out of the water. It''s not an ACA, either. But it shows terrific arrows! For that matter, so does my old J, even though I know it''s probably not an ideal cut stone. Did they even classify stones as Ideal 16 years ago? Maybe I should have my old diamond re-appraised at some point, eh?

As far as the diamonds showing more color as they get larger, I''ve heard that before many times. Maybe that''s one reason I always stuck with the smaller diamonds. The biggest one I own is only a little over one carat.