question about antique diamond ring & appraisal

[kmc]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, so I thank you in advance for your thoughts.

OK! I got engaged a week ago and my fiance gave me a beautiful antique ring that had belonged to his great-grandmother. His grandmother just passed away last summer at age 92, so the ring is obviously very old given that it was her mother''s. I love antiques, so I''m very curious about the history of the ring. The interesting part is that the ring has been appraised a couple of times in the past few years and there are huge discrepancies.

The first appraisal, which was done in 2003, does not provide much info, but this is what it does say:

Cut: European standard
Color: M/N
Clarity: SI1
Approximate Carat Weight: 1.28 cts
Replacement value: $9,150

The second appraisal, which I just received yesterday says:

"Edwardian ring prong set in platinum with fancy cut synthetic sapphire baguette highlights, circa 1925. The center of the ring is an old mine cut weighing approximately 1.13 carats, color grade X-Y and clarity grade SI1. The girdle of the diamond has numerous nicks. The oval shaped setting is bead set with 12 single cut diamonds weighing approximately .12 carat total weight. Value: $3,600"

So my questions are numerous. The most striking discrepancy between the two appraisals, but which is actually the least important to me as I have no intention of ever selling the ring, is the value. Frankly, I''m inclined to think that the lower value is closer to reality due to the nicks, but I''m no expert.

What I''m most fascinated by is that each appraiser came up with different cuts and colors for the same rock! The ring is round, but definitely an old cut. I asked the appraiser yesterday about the c. 1925 date because I did not think old mine cuts were still being cut that late. He responded that there was a window of cutting old mines that went into the 1920s and that he thinks this ring is from the later part of that window. He also said that the ring exhibits many of the traits of both old european and old mine cuts, but that in the end he felt that it had more old mine charateristics and thus called it old mine in the appraisal.

Regarding color, is there really that much of a difference between M-N and X-Y? X-Y seems fancier to me, but the appraiser yesterday said that there is little difference between and O and a Y. Really??

What about the carat weight? There is no mention in the first appraisal of total carat weight, so I assumed that 1.28 cts just referred to the center stone. However, the second appraiser indicated that the center stone is 1.13 plus 12 single cut diamonds.

Finally, if the Edwardian period ended around 1918 (or 1914) isn''t c.1925 (as stated in the second appraisal) late? Why not Art Deco instead of Edwardian? The appraiser said that he though it was circa WWI, but 1925 doesn''t fit that either. Am I missing something?

Many thanks for your patience in reading this super long post. I really get the feeling that if I gave the ring to 10 appraisers that they would all come back with a different idea about what the it is. Your opinions are highly valued.

Best wishes,

Kathleen

 

[oldminer]

You are faced with an all too common problem for which there never has been a good solution. Appraisals are OPINIONS and not all appraisers are at the top of the game. Many have little formal training, some have a bit of training, and some have a great deal of training, but they are in the minority. Even among those with lots of training are a goodly percentage with surprisingly little knowledge of anything beyond diamond evaluation. Who do you trust? That's a problem. I can't tell you either appraisal is right or wrong.

The Edwardian period lasted from 1903 to 1910. The influences of the period lasted some years longer as many of the styles were very beautiful and elegant. Lots of cushion, old mine cut diamonds were remounted from Victorian pieces into newer Edwardian styles. Many Victorian and Edwardian stones were remounted into Art Deco items later, too. You can't judge the age of the piece by the cut period of the diamond. You also can't be certain about the age of the piece as many fine examples of Victorian, Edwardian and Deco were made years after their periods came to an end. It is an imperfect science at best.

The problem I see is that a good appraiser would not tell you N-N is the same as X-Y color. They are not the same or even similar.
judging color in a set stone may be a problem, but if a good appraiser grades M-N another good appraiser should not be at X-Y. I can't tell you who is right, but someone, or both of them are "off".

The values again are opinions. Maybe one was for inheritance taxes and the other for retail replacement. Maybe the mark-ups are very different, too. Use the pricescope search to get a comparable in a modern diamond if any of these colors are even listed. An old stone of the m-n color range will cost less than a modern cut one of the same weight and clarity. The x-y situation will be a different matter as that color range is close to fancy color and all bets of uniform pricing are off.

Hope this helps you. You have a very dificult situation which is realy hard to fix with a message here. You need an expert that is credible to look at the item and do an independent evaluation.

 

[widget]

Hi, kmc....welcome!

Any chance of posting pictures of your beautiful ring? Then all of us antique freaks could have the fun of "voting" (while drooling) as to whether it''s more Edwardian or Deco!

Whatever it is, it sounds lovely!

widget

PS: When my mom passed away, we had several pieces of her jewelry re-appraised for estate purposes...and the difference in stated values was astonishing. The "estate values" were only a fraction of their supposed "retail replacement" values..

 

[Kaleigh]

Kmc,
I second widget in asking for pics of this ring. I love old rings and am a big fan of old european cuts and old mine cuts.

 

[mrssalvo]

can I third the request for pics?? we love our antique rings around here

 

[kmc]

Hi,

Here''s a picture of the ring. I had to resize the picture, so we''ll see if it is clear in the message. If not, I''ll ask my fiance to help me out so I can send some good photos. Thanks so much for your input!!

Best,

Kathleen

 

[kmc]

Here''s another view. I''ll try to take a couple more pictures in good light tomorrow if the weather cooperates.

Thanks!!

Kathleen

 

[widget]

Oh my goodness...from what I can see, it looks gorgeous! Can''t wait to see clearer pictures!

I''m probably going to guess Deco, mostly because of the sapph baguettes..but who cares? It''s fabulous...Lucky you!!

By the way, don''t be a bit put off by the sapphires being synthetic. In the twenties, they were all the rage, highly esteemed and it isn''t unusual to see them in fine quality vintage jewelry.

widget

 

[blueroses]

One more drool-worthy vote for Deco from a fellow antique-freak!!!

It is FAB!! Would love to see more pics. And I agree w/ OldMiner that the color grade discrepancy is just WACKY!

What a wonderful ring

 

[glitterata]

More pictures! More pictures! I want a better look at the beautiful ring.

I say Deco too.

What a great ring to be given for your engagement! May you wear it in health, happiness, and love.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

You are faced with an all too common problem for which there never has been a good solution. Appraisals are OPINIONS and not all appraisers are at the top of the game. Many have little formal training, some have a bit of training, and some have a great deal of training, but they are in the minority. Even among those with lots of training are a goodly percentage with surprisingly little knowledge of anything beyond diamond evaluation. Who do you trust? That''s a problem. I can''t tell you either appraisal is right or wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave is right. It is hugely frustrating for a competent appraiser to see appraisals that just don''t add up. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but when the stats are off, I have no problem correcting the information if it''s wrong. Just recently I saw two of the most "off" appraisals that I have ever seen issued by a seller (a jewelry store). Two large diamonds were graded "SI 1." when in fact they were both I3. Awful, just awful. I believe that if an appraiser is not familiar with a period piece or how to value that item than a more experienced appraiser should be recomended. It''s worse if you do the job incorrectly because pride is your concern.
Just my thoughts...

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[Kaleigh]

I vote Deco too. What a beautiful ring. I am looking forward to seeing more pics tomorrow. Need some close ups if possible.

 

[kmc]

Hi everyone,

Here are a few more photos. I don''t know how to put several pictures in the same message, so I''ll send each in its own message. Many thanks for all your replies. The consensus seems to be for Art Deco. Is there any particular quality that makes the ring look especially art deco to you?

Thanks!

 

[kmc]

Here''s one more...

 

[kmc]

And last but not least

 

[glitterata]

Oh, Kathleen, what fortunate women all of you are/were to get to wear that beauty!

There''s something so touching about a groom offering his bride a family treasure. It suggests that the whole family is welcoming you and that they believe you''re going to belong to the family forever--which doesn''t go without saying nowadays.

As for why that ring looks deco to me: the square shape to the head; the geometric pattern of sapphires, with triangles set on alternate sides; the presence of the sapphires to begin with.

I remember when my mother gave me my grandmother''s engagement ring from the same era.
"It''s so beautifully art deco," I said.
"What do you mean?" said my mother, "how can you tell it''s art deco? It just looks like a diamond ring to me."
"Don''t you see how the design looks like the top of the Chrysler Building?" I said.
"Oh!" she said. "Yes, now I see what you mean."

With your ring, I also love that you can actually see the yellowness in the diamond. I know that some people might consider visible yellow as sign of a lower quality diamond, but I think yours gives it real character. It doesn''t look as if someone fell short of whiteness--it looks as if someone deliberately chose a beautiful sunny diamond, like a bright summer day.

You must be so thrilled with that beautiful ring! I hope it shines its sunlight on you for decades and decades.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I would say Early Deco, circa 1920. Many pieces of jewelry made then had the emerging geometric motif of the Deco era, but were still influenced by remnants of Edwardian styling.

It's tough to tell from the photos, but the clearest one seems to depict an early European Cut rather than an Old Mine Cut.

Beautiful ring.

What's the measurements of the diamond? Diameter, depth, and any other measurements given.

 

[kmc]

Thanks Glitterata and Rich!

Your insight is well appreciated. I plan to check out a book about early 20th century jewelry-focusing especially on art deco- this week.

As for measurements, the appraisers did not provide any. I suppose it may have been difficult with the stone being in the setting. I rested a ruler on the crown and measured from edge to edge of the girdle; the measurement was 7 mm when I did it from up to down and also across.

The stone looks more round to me like an old european instead of square with rounded corners like most of the old mine diamonds I''ve seen. I don''t know what the appraiser noticed on the inside of the stone that made him go with old mine cut instead of old european. Maybe the style of the facets.

I''m loving the yellowness of the stone more and more everyday. The appraiser said that he gave it an x-y because of how the color looks from the side. He said that the cut does not reflect light in a way that allows one to see the full yellow color when looking at it head-on. Of course he also said that there''s not a big difference between an O and a Y, so...

Thanks as always for your kind posts and best wishes!

Take care,

 

[Richard Sherwood]

No measurements?

Wow.