PS Mommy Thread-Newborn to 12 months!

[rockpaperscissors67]

Date: 11/25/2009 12:11:09 AM
Author: fiery
I don''t know. What worked for me is setting my expectations low. Sophia will STTN when she STTN. The biggest frustration for me was that we can have the same exact routine every day and one day she''ll sleep all night, another she wakes every 2 hours, and another she''ll give me long stretches but not all night. So I stopped focusing on trying to get her to sleep all night and instead on being consistent and reading her sleeping cues so that I don''t miss it. I would love for Sophia to STTN now because I''m sometimes so exhausted for work that I''ll be driving on the highway and have no idea how I got there. We were going to CIO but found out today that my december trip is being pushed to february so we''re just going to carry on as normal. I have hope it''ll happen eventually.

I think expecting that your baby should/will STTN by a certain age is just setting yourself up for potential disappointment. If it happens great. If not invest in a good coffee maker

Fiery, I think we have essentially the same philosophy.

With my oldest 2 kids, I tried CIO because I was taught that was the thing to do. At some point, you know, you''ve got to go through a little bit of pain to get the kid to understand that he or she needs to learn to sleep independently.

My 3rd schooled me on co-sleeping. I brought him into bed one night out of sheer desperation because I couldn''t function anymore with the repeated ups and downs. From then on, I became a committed co-sleeper. My 4th and 5th started their lives sleeping with me and the new one will do so as well. Thankfully, SO is on the same page. People have commented in the past that I look so well rested for having a newborn and it''s all because I can nurse in my sleep!

It just feels wrong to me to allow a baby to cry like that. I''m not saying I never let my kids cry -- sometimes you must do something else and the baby just has to wait. Putting a baby in a crib and allowing him to cry IMHO allows him to feel as though he''s been abandoned and can''t trust his parents to be there for him. That''s just my gut feeling and why I refuse to do CIO.

Since all of my kids have eventually moved to sleeping independently and are good sleepers, I feel like this is the right way to handle sleep for us.

 

[taovandel]

Can''t contribute a whole lot to the current conversation about CIO as we aren''t at that stage yet.

But, I wanted to thank everyone again for their suggestions on getting Evan to like his bassinet. Pandora was the first to suggest the towel to help elevate and it seems like it''s a life saver. I know Evan is still too little to be on a "schedule" or to have a "pattern" but so far he''s doing wonderfully. The first night with bassinet training was a bit rough, up once an hour--wanting to be held instead of being put in the bassinet. My husband and I kept up with it and are thankful we didn''t just give up and put him back in the carseat or in our arms to sleep. The last two nights he''s back on his normal sleep pattern. I actually got about 5 hours straight (so did my husband) before having to wake up to feed him.


Viz: I''m kinda thankful that he was born on Halloween---it will make it much easier to plan birthday parties for him for quite a bit of time.


I''m probably going to have my sister take some 1 month old pictures of Evan tomorrow when I head over for Thanksgiving. I can''t believe he will be 4 weeks on Saturday! It seems like just yesterday I was in the hospital!

 

[MustangGal]

Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone! I''ll "see" you again on Monday

 

[Pandora II]

Interesting discussion and I can see everyone's points.

For me, STTN has never been a goal - maybe that's because I have a year off work and so sleep deprivation isn't as much of a problem as it would be if I had to go to work. My number 1 goal is as happy, confident and secure a child as possible - both DH and I were very unhappy as children and we are doing things VERY differently from what our parents did with us.

I'm absolutely not saying that other techniques will produce an unhappy child, or that it was necessarily the cause of our unhappiness, just that we choose to follow a different path from how we were brought up.

I also freely admit that I really enjoy bed-sharing with Daisy, she's warm and cuddly (a hot-water bottle that never gets cold!), I like the oxytocin high I get with breast-feeding and we all sleep a lot better than we would otherwise. She's only going to be little once and I'd rather enjoy every minute of that rather than worrying about STTN which ultimately I'm sure she will - probably shortly before the teenage years and the inability to wake up before noon sets in!

On CIO, I feel the way you do rockpaperscissors - I also always put myself in the position of 'if I was living in the middle of a jungle what would I do?' and it wouldn't be to put my baby under a tree 50ft away and let them cry - we'd get eaten rather fast I imagine - I strongly subscribe to the view that mothers and babies are biologically programmed to act in ways that ensure their best survival, whether this stems from growing up as a young child in a culture where babies weren't put down for the first 3-4 months and were NEVER allowed to cry I don't know. (This from the person who thinks the man who invented epidurals should win the Nobel prize)

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thread splitting I think it has to happen eventually. But we need to make sure that when we do it there isn''t a couple of new moms left on the cusp! The threads split right when Hunter was born, so for a while this here Newborn thread was so quiet!

Poor Dreamer all by herself

It is so helpful to the new moms to have more experienced moms around.

Anyone have a good suggestion about where to do the split? We could just be spontaneous and say "now!"...

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/25/2009 11:54:54 AM
Author: Pandora II
Interesting discussion and I can see everyone''s points.

For me, STTN has never been a goal - maybe that''s because I have a year off work and so sleep deprivation isn''t as much of a problem as it would be if I had to go to work. My number 1 goal is as happy, confident and secure a child as possible - both DH and I were very unhappy as children and we are doing things VERY differently from what our parents did with us.

Same here, re time off. I am going back to work in January and so that was part of my motivation for sure. I have a freind whos 14 month old still cosleeps and wakes 3 times a night to feed. It just sounds so hard!

 

[fieryred33143]

Hey ladies

Funny about the sleeping. Last night Sophia woke up and FI went to put her back to sleep. I hear him on the monitor go "I think she''s hungry" so I yell out "why?" and he says "she''s trying to latch on to me...maybe it''s a sign I need to lose weight if she thinks I have boobs"

It was a funny at 3am haha

Anyway, I''m leaving work now to pick up Sophia and make the drive to Orlando.

If I don''t get a chance to log back on Happy Thanksgiving!

And to the ladies not celebrating tomorrow Happy Thursday lol

 

[mela lu]

Holy Moly - I step away from the computer for a day and PAAN! Juicy conversations!!!! I can''t spend a ton of time right now, as I''m going to start bedtime routine soon, but I did want to offer my support (and commiseration) to Viszla. I too had major major struggles BFing. The pain was so unbearable that I was only nursing off one side (and barely) and just pumping to avoid his painful latch. In the end, I chose to snip his tongue tie since it was that or give up BFing. After snipping, I never had the pain again!!!!!!!!!!! It was like a miracle. He wasn''t extremely tongue tied either, just enough to reap havoc on my boobs. Anyways, I just wanted to share my experience with you. Hang in there. It does get easier, and it is SO worth it! IMO.

CIO comments to come

 

[phoenixgirl]

Date: 11/25/2009 12:11:09 AM
Author: fiery
I think expecting that your baby should/will STTN by a certain age is just setting yourself up for potential disappointment. If it happens great. If not invest in a good coffee maker

Certainly. But that''s a risk I''m willing to take!

I think the chances that STTN will happen as early as it has been reported to be possible are much greater if I at least make the attempt. My sister''s third baby is not STTN like her brother and sister were at this age; every child is different. But the chances that STTN will spontaneously happen by that age are pretty slim, I imagine.

We have friends who had a baby 4 days after us. They have not followed the Baby Wise advice of trying to insure a full feeding at each shot, and so their son often eats 10 minutes every hour. They haven''t tried to put him down to sleep on his own, so guess what, he can''t go to sleep on his own. They hold him each night all night long and are sleeping on their fold out couch still. They drive around with him for hours to get him to go to sleep and then they wait in the car for his nap to be over. I believe that Claire naturally is less fussy than their baby, but I also believe that some of their choices have gotten them to a point where, one month out, they are constantly feeding and holding their son whereas Claire is going approximately three hours between feedings with one longer stretch at night, is able to sleep on her own in her crib, etc. I don''t think that''s an entirely an accident. If she doesn''t wind up STTN for several more months, that''s fine; her health is the most important thing. My only concern is that I not get into bad habits in the beginning that are going to screw me later on. Her ability to sleep on her own and comfort herself is more important to me than the number of hours she sleeps in a row, and I am happy with the path we''re on to that end.

 

[gailrmv]

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!

Regarding Babywise... I read the book and liked some of it. Then, a friend pointed me in the direction of this website: http://www.ezzo.info
After reading more about the author's qualifications (or lack of!) and some of the criticisms of the book, and especially after I found out that Ezzo is a very fundamentalist Christian with a big time agenda, I found I felt quite differently about the book.


I'd recommend people to have a look at the website and draw their own conclusions.

More info about Babywise

 

[Mandarine]

Hi everyone!!

I''m a bad, bad , bad PSer!. I''ve just been so busy!.

The boys are doing great...both over 8 lbs now!!!. They are 6.5 weeks and we are doing well. I''m keeping them on a schedule (as much as I can) so they eat every three hours around the clock. I read Babywise...and while I do think it can be extremist, I think you have to take from it what you like and ignore the rest!. If the boys are hungry before the 3 hours (obviously hungry and not tired, needing a change or just bored) then I feed them. It''s just common sense. They are thriving just fine (getting very chubby!) so I think some of the criticism of that book is for the people that miss the whole point of having to act based on the babies cues and your own judgement. It never says to let the baby starve just because it hasn''t been the 2 hours.

Anyway...so back to what I was saying

. The boys are eating at 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 7pm, 10pm, 1am an 4am. More or less...sometimes things shift slightly, but overall they are like clockwork and will literally be hungry as the clock strikes "the time". This is good since I can plan my day around it and I feel like it''s good for them too. The thing that has me worried now is that I don''t know what the next plan should be. Obviosuly they are too little for sleep training...but I need some guidance from the twin mommas!.

Every night, one of the babies wakes up at the time". The other one may be sound sleep, but I wake him up to eat (more like a dream feed)...so I really have no idea if one baby (or both) is capable of going longer than 3 hours in between feedings at night. At what point do I stop waking one baby up if the other one is ready to eat?.

I''m just not sure how, with twins, you go from where I''m at, to a plan for STTN. Obviously both babies are different...so one may be ready before the other one is. How would I ever know unless I stop the tandem feeding at night?

Feel free to jump in if you''re not a twin momma but have some suggestions

In other news, I was cleared for exercising last week so I started running again!. I''ve gone out running twice...and it was so hard!...but I am glad I did. The thing is now I have a bit of pain in my abdomen (I had a c-section). It''s almost like when you hold your pee for too long....so not in the actual incision. I''ll call the Dr Friday if this continues, but thought I would ask if anyone had anything similar. The "pain" is bearable and I have no bleeding or anything like that.

I so need to catch up, but it''s so hard to do with two babies

I miss you guys!

 

[rockpaperscissors67]

Pandora, I share your love of snuggling with a baby. They are so warm and soft and smell so good! That sounds kind of weird, doesn''t it? LOL! I''ve struggled with insomnia for years and it''s horrible if I go to bed by myself, but tuck a small child in with me and I''m right out.

I agree with you about mothers and babies working together to ensure survival. I know that times are much different now and we''re probably safer in our homes than out in the wilderness, but to me, co-sleeping just feels right. I''ve found that I am more well rested when I co-sleep rather than when I try to get a baby to sleep independently.

The one thing that co-sleeping has taught me is to trust my instincts over and above any parenting book that I read. If anyone had THE answer to raising kids, the shelves wouldn''t be full of books that range from Dr. Sears to Gary Ezzo.

Fiery, thank your FI for the laugh!! It always cracked me up when Will would get confused and try to latch on to SO. Your FI has to refer to them as MOOBS, though. You know, man boobs.

PG, I really think a child''s temperment has a lot to do with how easy/difficult they are. My first 3 were pretty easy going kids, but OMG, #4 did a number on me. She was probably what you''d call high needs. If I put her down during her first 4 months, she would scream bloody murder, even if she was dead asleep. The worst part of my day was when I would lay her on the bathroom floor so I could jump in the shower quickly. She would scream the entire time. I eventually got a sling and that''s where she spent much of her day. I was a bad mom and even cooked with her right there in the sling. As she got older, she improved, but even now, at 9, her temperment is much different than the other kids. They are still fairly easy going, while this child is the one who is rolling around on the floor while she watches tv. I call her my prickly pear because she gets indignant so quickly. She''s also very smart, a very dedicated student and shows great promise as a gymnast. I think she was just a type A personality from the moment she was born.

Mandarine, I have no suggestions because I''ve never had twins, but I am in AWE of you. I have no idea how you do it, but it sounds like the boys are doing wonderfully!

 

[neatfreak]

Mandarine Unfortunately there comes a point where you just have to throw the idea of you getting good sleep out the window for a few nights and "test" whether the baby/babies are ready to sleep longer. By that I mean not waking the second baby up and seeing if they sleep through to the next feeding.

You can also try and stretch the time a bit at night and see if they can do that. If one wakes up, comfort them for 15-30 min (as long as you can) but don''t feed. Then wake the other one and feed both. See if they will naturally start going a bit longer between feedings.

Honestly the first number of months were a blur for me...so that''s what I can remember of what we did. Honestly I think a lot of it was pure dumb luck with STTN early for us.

If I can think of anything else we did I will let you know. But other than starting to really be regimented about bedtime (when our boys were a bit older than yours) we really just played it by ear. And they just started sleeping through after awhile. But it''s a little more trial and error. Good luck!

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 11/24/2009 10:36:55 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 11/24/2009 1:56:02 AM

Author: TanDogMom


Let me ask you about the directionality of that cause and effect though. It sounds like you hypothesize that the lack of schedule is causing night wakeups and missed naps, which then causes a sleep deficit which causes more temper tantrums. I agree that this is the most likely explanation. But is it possible that the same parenting style that allows for missed sleep is also a more lax parenting style towards discipline, thus more tantrums? In that case, parenting style is 'causing' (allowing) more tantrums AND causing a lack of schedule, rather than lack of schedule causing the tantrums. ALternately, could the child have a strong willed temperment, such that he is both more prone to meltdowns and also less willing to sleep when given the opportunity? This might lead a frazzled parent to give up on having a strict schedule. So, the child's temperment would be causing the lack of schedule and also the meltdowns. (This whole paragraph would be much easier to draw.) A fun, but not-gonna-happen experiment would be to get those moms to schedule one twin and not the other!



I'm just saying in a really nerdy way that I think you are probably right about the cause and effect, but I don't think it's the only possible explanation.



I hate that I have misspelled temperment like 4 times in this post but I can't seem to fix it! Off to bed!

Yep certainly possible. But I did not mention that a few of these moms have started without a schedule and then got on a schedule. And the night wake ups and the meltdowns during the day dropped off dramatically.


And if my anecdote was about one or two children I would of course think it could be that they are just strong willed. But interestingly some of the strongest willed kids in our group are on a schedule and thus STTN. So it certainly is interesting to watch my built in 'study' for me!


Anyway, you are very right that it isn't scientific which is why I have put 'study' in quotes all the time. And I am sure that some of the meltdowns are because of their parenting and not sleep issues. But at the same time it has been amazing for me to watch this all unfold. And like I said all of us have a relatively similar parenting style, and the strong willed kids aren't necessarily the ones with the sleep issues, so it certainly makes me wonder. And the fact that a few moms have switched over to the dark side of scheduled bedtimes and naps and said their kids have become happier, are STTN, etc. certainly influences my thinking too!

Neat,, sorry, I forgot to reply to you. It is interesting to hear about the other babies in your group. It is especially interesting to hear about how some of their situations have improved after getting onto a more fixed schedule.

The more I think about it the more I think our flexible schedule is working pretty well for us. I like that each day has a particular rhythm to it, and is pretty predictable, yet can be adapted a little here and there to meet the needs of that day. It would drive me crazy to have us scheduled right down to the minute with no room for flexibility, but it would also drive me crazy (and I'm sure be bad for A) to have no fixed times for anything! So we're taking a middle of the road approach, I guess. So far so good.

______
Does anyone else's baby seem really sensitive to noise? We run a white noise machine to try and drown out noise, but sometimes A will wake up when I am doing something in the kitchen, etc. It is frustrating! Our house has an open floor plan so noises carry. Most annoying is that my dogs are way overprotective and bark at anything going on outside, which just sucks if A is napping!

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 11/25/2009 9:14:13 PM
Author: Mandarine
Hi everyone!!

I'm a bad, bad , bad PSer!. I've just been so busy!.


The boys are doing great...both over 8 lbs now!!!. They are 6.5 weeks and we are doing well. I'm keeping them on a schedule (as much as I can) so they eat every three hours around the clock. I read Babywise...and while I do think it can be extremist, I think you have to take from it what you like and ignore the rest!. If the boys are hungry before the 3 hours (obviously hungry and not tired, needing a change or just bored) then I feed them. It's just common sense. They are thriving just fine (getting very chubby!) so I think some of the criticism of that book is for the people that miss the whole point of having to act based on the babies cues and your own judgement. It never says to let the baby starve just because it hasn't been the 2 hours.


Anyway...so back to what I was saying

. The boys are eating at 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 7pm, 10pm, 1am an 4am. More or less...sometimes things shift slightly, but overall they are like clockwork and will literally be hungry as the clock strikes 'the time'. This is good since I can plan my day around it and I feel like it's good for them too. The thing that has me worried now is that I don't know what the next plan should be. Obviosuly they are too little for sleep training...but I need some guidance from the twin mommas!.


Every night, one of the babies wakes up at the time'. The other one may be sound sleep, but I wake him up to eat (more like a dream feed)...so I really have no idea if one baby (or both) is capable of going longer than 3 hours in between feedings at night. At what point do I stop waking one baby up if the other one is ready to eat?.


I'm just not sure how, with twins, you go from where I'm at, to a plan for STTN. Obviously both babies are different...so one may be ready before the other one is. How would I ever know unless I stop the tandem feeding at night?


Feel free to jump in if you're not a twin momma but have some suggestions

In other news, I was cleared for exercising last week so I started running again!. I've gone out running twice...and it was so hard!...but I am glad I did. The thing is now I have a bit of pain in my abdomen (I had a c-section). It's almost like when you hold your pee for too long....so not in the actual incision. I'll call the Dr Friday if this continues, but thought I would ask if anyone had anything similar. The 'pain' is bearable and I have no bleeding or anything like that.


I so need to catch up, but it's so hard to do with two babies

I miss you guys!

hi Mandarine, nice to see you and I hope everything is going well! are you enjoying your cute nursery?? I have just loved seeing the pics you've posted of the twins. They could not be any more adorable.

on the running post c section thing - I am also a runner who had a c section. i think i started back pretty soon after my 6 week post op check, but i had to take it slow. That is, I would jog a bit, walk a bit, etc. it took several months or more to get back to my old levels of speed and endurance (and i exercised throughout my pregnancy). i don't remember having pain like what you described, but i do remember the first few weeks that i started back to running i had to go very slow and take lots of walk breaks. i would say if it hurts, to take things slower. after all, you had major surgery! i remember i started doing some intense ab exercises 3 or 4 months after my c section and it was too soon. it really hurt (not like normal being sore). i thought i was all the way healed but I guess i wasn't. it was a reminder to listen to my body.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/26/2009 12:42:00 AM
Author: TanDogMom


Neat,, sorry, I forgot to reply to you. It is interesting to hear about the other babies in your group. It is especially interesting to hear about how some of their situations have improved after getting onto a more fixed schedule.

The more I think about it the more I think our flexible schedule is working pretty well for us. I like that each day has a particular rhythm to it, and is pretty predictable, yet can be adapted a little here and there to meet the needs of that day. It would drive me crazy to have us scheduled right down to the minute with no room for flexibility, but it would also drive me crazy (and I''m sure be bad for A) to have no fixed times for anything! So we''re taking a middle of the road approach, I guess. So far so good.

______
Does anyone else''s baby seem really sensitive to noise? We run a white noise machine to try and drown out noise, but sometimes A will wake up when I am doing something in the kitchen, etc. It is frustrating! Our house has an open floor plan so noises carry. Most annoying is that my dogs are way overprotective and bark at anything going on outside, which just sucks if A is napping!

I don''t think any mother who believes in routine here would advocate being scheduled right down to the minute with no room for flexibility. That''s insane.

Assuming that there are two parents living with the child, I guess I just really can''t think of any real "needs" of the day that can''t be worked around naps?

The only need that I had where I couldn''t work around Amelia''s nap was my dad''s funeral.

I actually read page 77 in HSHHC after mia pointed it out and in the same section, he talks about co-sleeping. I think co-sleeping is great if everyone is happy with it. I think I read a parenting article once that said something to the effect of "show me a teenager who wants to sleep in his parents'' bed and I''ll show you a therapy candidate." So kids will get to their own beds eventually and if everyone was happy along the way, no harm, no foul, all is good.

What I did think was interesting in that section (and what I agree with just from my own unscientific observations) was that parents who are early cosleepers (ones who believe in the philosophy from the start and use it) vs reactive cosleepers (ones who didn''t plan on it and only used it because it got them some respite from the exhaustion) is that the early ones are happier with the situation in the long run and it works out better for them. Reactive cosleepers tend to want to get that kid out when they get bigger and start to hog blankets and kick parents.

Guess that makes sense because reactive co-sleepers often do it to get better sleep themselves (and get frustrated when that sleep gets more difficult as children get bigger/older) vs early co-sleepers who do it because it''s something they''ve always believed in.

Anyway, this conversation is interesting and I hope that people do NOT do CIO if they are not comfortable with it. As so many mentioned, there are all kinds of different styles of parenting and certainly all kinds of different personalities in children, so there is no one answer. I think parents who have more than one child probably know this best, and as a mother of only one child, I would defer to them.

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 11/26/2009 2:33:54 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/26/2009 12:42:00 AM

Author: TanDogMom



Neat,, sorry, I forgot to reply to you. It is interesting to hear about the other babies in your group. It is especially interesting to hear about how some of their situations have improved after getting onto a more fixed schedule.


The more I think about it the more I think our flexible schedule is working pretty well for us. I like that each day has a particular rhythm to it, and is pretty predictable, yet can be adapted a little here and there to meet the needs of that day. It would drive me crazy to have us scheduled right down to the minute with no room for flexibility, but it would also drive me crazy (and I'm sure be bad for A) to have no fixed times for anything! So we're taking a middle of the road approach, I guess. So far so good.


______

Does anyone else's baby seem really sensitive to noise? We run a white noise machine to try and drown out noise, but sometimes A will wake up when I am doing something in the kitchen, etc. It is frustrating! Our house has an open floor plan so noises carry. Most annoying is that my dogs are way overprotective and bark at anything going on outside, which just sucks if A is napping!

I don't think any mother who believes in routine here would advocate being scheduled right down to the minute with no room for flexibility. That's insane.


Assuming that there are two parents living with the child, I guess I just really can't think of any real 'needs' of the day that can't be worked around naps?

The only need that I had where I couldn't work around Amelia's nap was my dad's funeral.


I actually read page 77 in HSHHC after mia pointed it out and in the same section, he talks about co-sleeping. I think co-sleeping is great if everyone is happy with it. I think I read a parenting article once that said something to the effect of 'show me a teenager who wants to sleep in his parents' bed and I'll show you a therapy candidate.' So kids will get to their own beds eventually and if everyone was happy along the way, no harm, no foul, all is good.


What I did think was interesting in that section (and what I agree with just from my own unscientific observations) was that parents who are early cosleepers (ones who believe in the philosophy from the start and use it) vs reactive cosleepers (ones who didn't plan on it and only used it because it got them some respite from the exhaustion) is that the early ones are happier with the situation in the long run and it works out better for them. Reactive cosleepers tend to want to get that kid out when they get bigger and start to hog blankets and kick parents.

Guess that makes sense because reactive co-sleepers often do it to get better sleep themselves (and get frustrated when that sleep gets more difficult as children get bigger/older) vs early co-sleepers who do it because it's something they've always believed in.


Anyway, this conversation is interesting and I hope that people do NOT do CIO if they are not comfortable with it. As so many mentioned, there are all kinds of different styles of parenting and certainly all kinds of different personalities in children, so there is no one answer. I think parents who have more than one child probably know this best, and as a mother of only one child, I would defer to them.

I must not be expressing myself well about this because I feel like you are missing my point. I'm not talking about the CIO or cosleeping debate at all. I agree with everything you said above about co-sleeping and it's not for us, but it's also not what I've been posting about! I'm talking about a situation like this one, which is the kind of thing that happens to me all the time:

A friend asks if we would like to meet her and her baby for story time at the library at 9:00 am.

If we are on the strict HSHHC routine, I have to say no - A's naptime is at 9:00 am, sorry, we can't make it.

Using my flexible routine, I say sure, sounds fun, we'll be there. I plan to put A down for his nap when we return home around 10:00 am. Maybe this pushes his afternoon nap a little later too, or maybe not.

If we have no schedule at all, I say sure, sounds fun, let's go to story time and then brunch, and then I go run errands and A might or might not have a morning nap at all.

So that's what I mean about flexibility. No, going to story time is not a "need." I will gladly miss it if it's very important for A to have that nap right at 9 am. But as a SAHM, making plans to leave the house and socialize with other adults is important for me too, and I don't want to pass on those types of things if A will thrive just as well by having a slightly later nap that day.

What about a mother of 2 who needs to do school drop off/pick up for their older child at 9:00 am while their baby should be napping? What about if you need to go to the doctor for yourself on short notice, and the only appointments available woudl mess with nap time, and you can't get a babysitter on short notice? Surely there are many situations more pressing than my story time example (which is obviously totally voluntary) but less urgent than a funeral that requires some flexibility. Some more examples that have happened to me recently: Dog is sick, needs to go to the vet and the appointment pushes naptime back a little. I hired someone to do some yardwork which causes the dogs to bark so loudly that A can't sleep, and the guy is still working at the HSHHC-prescribed naptime, also pushing naptime back. If these kinds of things have really never happened to you, then I admire your amazing planning and luck and/or your ability to get childcare on short notice. If I recall correctly, you have your mom living nearby and a nanny to take care of Amelia while you work and perhaps you could take care of things like dr appointments during times when someone else can watch Amelia. I have no family nearby, and am no longer working so no childcare during the day. My DH works very long hours and cannot miss work unless it is a DIRE emergency. During the days, it's all me. I have a few people I could call on to watch A but who knows if they would be available on short notice. Regardless, I would feel silly asking for a favor or hiring a babysitter just so that A could nap at 9 instead of 10.

For me the flexible approach works. I think that it is working for A too. I was originally asking how important people think it is to follow HSHHC to the letter. Upon thinking about it more, I'm going to keep on doing what I'm doing.

I'm sorry I brought it up at all because I feel like I am getting criticised.
_____

DH is sick and A has been up several times tonight, totally cranky. That's not like him. I hope he's not getting sick. Hey, maybe he has been following this thread and is trying to tell me he needs a stricter routine. Just kidding. Now I will be totally exhausted for the holiday. Oh well what can you do.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Date: 11/25/2009 2:07:05 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/25/2009 2:01:24 AM
Author: TanDogMom

I''ve been thinking more about schedules. A friend''s young toddler is scheduled down to the minute. She has dinner at 6:00. Not 5:55. Not 6:05. Six on the dot. My friend told me that her child has an absolute meltdown if things don''t happen on the EXACT schedule. This would drive me crazy. I don''t want A to be that scheduled. Sometimes things happen that we can''t control (like getting stuck in a traffic jam) or that we don''t want to miss (like spending a few minutes talking with a neighbor on our way inside), and I want him to grow up able to adapt within reason. I don''t want him to have no clue whether dinner will be at 5pm or 8 pm or anywhere in between, because that isn''t fair, but I want him to be somewhat adaptable. So I think I''m going to stick with our flexible routine and give some thought to an earlier bedtime and try to cut out the night feeding, and then I bet his wakeup will get earlier on its own.

Wow, never heard of such a thing. Didn''t know toddlers knew how to tell time!!!

I clockwatch, but I''m certainly not exact. I guess because Amelia''s pretty adaptable, even though she''s on a schedule I don''t have to worry!

Funny you should mention this because I think we may be heading in this direction with Amelia. We''ve fallen into a fairly set routine, mostly because of our work and school schedules and now at the weekends and on days off we do get a meltdown at 5.30pm if there is no dinner at almost that exact moment. Also at 12.15 if lunch is late. 6.45 is bathtime and if we''re slack about it, Amelia heads out for the bathroom and tries to turn on the bathtaps. We thought it was cute and funny at first but now we are wondering exactly who is running the show (emphatically us, but it was becoming unclear for a day or to there haha).

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 11/26/2009 4:58:05 AM
Author: TanDogMom


I must not be expressing myself well about this because I feel like you are missing my point. I''m not talking about the CIO or cosleeping debate at all. I agree with everything you said above about co-sleeping and it''s not for us, but it''s also not what I''ve been posting about! I''m talking about a situation like this one, which is the kind of thing that happens to me all the time:

A friend asks if we would like to meet her and her baby for story time at the library at 9:00 am.

If we are on the strict HSHHC routine, I have to say no - A''s naptime is at 9:00 am, sorry, we can''t make it.

Using my flexible routine, I say sure, sounds fun, we''ll be there. I plan to put A down for his nap when we return home around 10:00 am. Maybe this pushes his afternoon nap a little later too, or maybe not.

If we have no schedule at all, I say sure, sounds fun, let''s go to story time and then brunch, and then I go run errands and A might or might not have a morning nap at all.

So that''s what I mean about flexibility. No, going to story time is not a ''need.'' I will gladly miss it if it''s very important for A to have that nap right at 9 am. But as a SAHM, making plans to leave the house and socialize with other adults is important for me too, and I don''t want to pass on those types of things if A will thrive just as well by having a slightly later nap that day.

What about a mother of 2 who needs to do school drop off/pick up for their older child at 9:00 am while their baby should be napping? What about if you need to go to the doctor for yourself on short notice, and the only appointments available woudl mess with nap time, and you can''t get a babysitter on short notice? Surely there are many situations more pressing than my story time example (which is obviously totally voluntary) but less urgent than a funeral that requires some flexibility. Some more examples that have happened to me recently: Dog is sick, needs to go to the vet and the appointment pushes naptime back a little. I hired someone to do some yardwork which causes the dogs to bark so loudly that A can''t sleep, and the guy is still working at the HSHHC-prescribed naptime, also pushing naptime back. If these kinds of things have really never happened to you, then I admire your amazing planning and luck and/or your ability to get childcare on short notice. If I recall correctly, you have your mom living nearby and a nanny to take care of Amelia while you work and perhaps you could take care of things like dr appointments during times when someone else can watch Amelia. I have no family nearby, and am no longer working so no childcare during the day. My DH works very long hours and cannot miss work unless it is a DIRE emergency. During the days, it''s all me. I have a few people I could call on to watch A but who knows if they would be available on short notice. Regardless, I would feel silly asking for a favor or hiring a babysitter just so that A could nap at 9 instead of 10.

For me the flexible approach works. I think that it is working for A too. I was originally asking how important people think it is to follow HSHHC to the letter. Upon thinking about it more, I''m going to keep on doing what I''m doing.

I''m sorry I brought it up at all because I feel like I am getting criticised.
_____

DH is sick and A has been up several times tonight, totally cranky. That''s not like him. I hope he''s not getting sick. Hey, maybe he has been following this thread and is trying to tell me he needs a stricter routine. Just kidding. Now I will be totally exhausted for the holiday. Oh well what can you do.

Oh dear... ooopps.... that sounds pretty much like my kind of schedule these days.

I''m also in the position of having no family nearby and a husband who works crazy hours - often not home till after midnight. Daisy is pretty good at scheduling her own naps now so I''m not too worried.

Yesterday for example I had to take her for her BCG (Tuberculosis vaccination) at 10.45am which is when she''d be asleep if we were at home, so I put her in the sling and went off to the doctors. My house is full of builders and we have no kitchen so after the doctors I thought I''d go and get some lunch and do a bit of shopping - we left the doctors at 11am, and she fell asleep in the sling until 12.30pm, so she still had her nap. I got home about 4.00pm and she wasn''t keen for a nap at all - wanted to feed, but everytime I took her off she opened her eyes and squawked at me...

I had an invitation to a private view at the Tate Modern at 7.30pm, so I put her in the sling and we went out around 6pm and she slept the whole way there, woke up to look round the exhibition (they even let her into the over-18''s only **** section - no doubt she''s now traumatised for life!

) and when DH and I went for dinner afterwards. She fell asleep on the bus home and when we got in I put her down on our bed still asleep - she vaguely woke up for about 10 seconds at 1am when I went to bed as she was hungry, but otherwise not a squeak until 7.30 this morning when the alarm went off.

I was sent to boarding school where my life was ruled by bells from when I got up till I went to bed for 5 years, so perhaps I am rebelling against that?

On another topic, did any of you BTDT mothers find that your child went through phases where ''only mummy will do''? Daisy has started this since Sunday. Normally she adores her daddy, but this week not even he is allowed to hold her, she just holds her arms out to me and if I don''t take her she starts to cry. It gets very trying for me, and poor DH is a bit upset that she is rejecting him.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 11/25/2009 7:50:34 PM
Author: TanDogMom
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!

Regarding Babywise... I read the book and liked some of it. Then, a friend pointed me in the direction of this website: http://www.ezzo.info
After reading more about the author''s qualifications (or lack of!) and some of the criticisms of the book, and especially after I found out that Ezzo is a very fundamentalist Christian with a big time agenda, I found I felt quite differently about the book.


I''d recommend people to have a look at the website and draw their own conclusions.

More info about Babywise

This shocked me almost as much as the book I picked up in Waterstone''s last week which was called something like Your Baby Week By Week. Just out of curiosity I turned to the week for Daisy''s age, where it advised to start CIO and warned that ''your child may well cry until they vomit so make sure to have spare sheets on hand. Walk in and change the sheets if the child gets distressed to this point, but be sure not to pick the child up and resist any form of eye contact with them''.

It made me feel physically sick...

 

[Sabine]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! All this sleep talk is apparently at the perfect time for us...we'll officially be letting Jackson cio tomorrow night to try to get him to sleep with his crib. He's going to make an interesting guinea pig for all our scientific minded mommies out there. I apologize for the selfish post, and if you have no interest in talk of sleep, please feel free to skip!

Here's some info: He will only sleep if being held. Otherwise he is up in 30 minute increments. Our current schedule is that he wakes up around 7, naps around 8:45-10:15, again from 12-12:30, and a long nap from 2 to 4/4:30. I think eventually he will lose the quick noon nap and move up his afternoon nap, but I've tried to make him go later and it doesn't work well yet. He goes to bed around 7. We cosleep, but it was reactive and not planned, and the reason we're cio is because he's restless and keeps me up, and then when I wake up it wakes him up, so it's not ideal for either of us anymore.

He eats every 3 hours during the day, and usually once overnight. He once went from his 6:30 bottle until 5:30 the next morning, but the problem is that he eats 6oz. bottles, and if I try to up them, he spits up majorly. He sometimes won't finish the bottles as well. So I think until his stomach can handle a bigger bottle, he'll probably continue to need an overnight or at least an early morning feeding. I don't see this as a problem and would not do cio to try to get rid of this feeding. Sometimes he wakes up twice to eat, and I don't really see that as a problem either (he's 17 weeks on Friday).

Somethings I wanted to respond to: TDM, if I were to have plans at 9 that would interrupt his first nap like in your story, what would happen is that he would stay awake, adn then while at story time he would get cranky and start crying, we'd leave, come home, and he'd fall asleep, but the nap would be crap (like 20 minutes), and he'd be overtired and sleep crappy the rest of the day. So I do try to not schedule things around his nap times unless it's a special occasion or something like a surprise dr. appt.

However, he is not scheduled to the minute. Today for example, he woke up at 6:30 instead of 7. I tried to make him wait till around 8:30 for his first nap, but at 8 he started crying from being tired, so I swaddled him, and he was asleep in minutes and slept till 10.

Pandora, it's great that you have a baby that can be so portable, but again, if I were to try to do what you did, he would stay awake the ENTIRE time. This actually happened the other day. We tried to take him to a parade at 6 at night. After his nap that ended at 4, we drove to our friend's house (30 minutes away) and then waited for other friends to get there. At this point he started crying because he wanted out of the car seat. We then had to drive to a parking garage and take a ferry. We hoped he would take a quick nap so we tried leaving him in the seat/stroller, but no, he was actually the baby who CRIED SO MUCH HE VOMITED. We immediately took him out and carried him int eh carrier the rest of the night, but he was WIDE AWAKE until we got home around 8.

I really think it does depend a lot on temperament. I've now read about 7 different books on sleep, and I do find my thinking going along most with hshhc, although as you can see from our daily schedule, he's not a "textbook baby."

So I will keep you all updated as to how it goes on Friday. We borrowed a video monitor to make sure he doesn't throw up on himself, and if he gets that upset we will stop and soothe. We also put a 3 hour time limit on it. If he has not put himself to sleep in 3 hours, I'm going to consider him still too young and try again at a later point. (So at 3 hours I'll feed him and put him to sleep with me). This is because he is post-colicky, and some of my research has suggested that post-colicky babies may not be able to self-soothe as early. But I am really hopeful that it will not take 3 hours for him to fall asleep tomorrow!

Again, sorry for hte LONG and SELFISH post, but I'll keep you updated with how it goes.

Oh, and Tao shoot, or was it Viz???...wanted to chime in that Jacks most likely has a milk and soy allergy as well. He's on Nutrimagen since bfing didn't work out. He still has some gas/tummy issues, and the dr. said we could try the Neocate formula that is soooooo expensive, but since Jacks keeps the Nutrimagen down and is gaining we don't need to. So just from the money stand point, I wish you luck wiht working out the bfing!

 

[Blenheim]

sleep Whoever said that expectations are key is totally right. Thinking more about it, I think that a lot of the reason why I feel pretty happy with his sleep right now is I have very low expectations for him STTN at his age. So when he usually STTN just over half the time I think it''s great. He''s been up a lot more at night in the past few days, but he''s also cutting two teeth so again I expect him to do that and it doesn''t bother me at all.

Snuggling with babies - best thing ever.

Thread splitting - agreed that it should eventually happen, but I''m not sure when the best time would be. Is there an obvious break in the due dates of some of the current preggos?

Fiery - LOL.

Pandora - sounds like separation anxiety. George is also going through a Mama phase right now. DH just got back in town and I warned him last night about this before he saw George. Then when George saw him, he took one look at him and buried his head in my shoulder and wanted nothing to do with DH. It''s completely normal when they''re starting to develop physically in ways that allow them to move away from you - crawling, walking, etc. And it is so tiring. If you need a shower or to get some time to yourself, have DH or whoever hold her and then get somewhere where she cannot see or hear you. G''s fine being held by others if I am not an option at all, but if he realizes that I''m there and not holding him he gets so upset. I think what helps in terms of DH and our parents not feeling rejected is just knowing that it''s completely normal and doesn''t say anything at all about them. Oh, and I think part of the reason why I''m as uncomfortable with CIO as I am as the people I know IRL who do it do it past the point of vomiting and then tell me that their babies were vomiting to manipulate them.

If I need to be out of the house at naptime I may try to plan to do something active that''s nap length and just put him on my back for a nap there, so it sounds like we may be fairly similar in that regard. But I also missed story time at the library last weekend because I would have had to wake G up from a nap to get there on time, and who wants to wake a sleeping baby?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/26/2009 10:33:06 AM
Author: Sabine

Somethings I wanted to respond to: TDM, if I were to have plans at 9 that would interrupt his first nap like in your story, what would happen is that he would stay awake, adn then while at story time he would get cranky and start crying, we''d leave, come home, and he''d fall asleep, but the nap would be crap (like 20 minutes), and he''d be overtired and sleep crappy the rest of the day. So I do try to not schedule things around his nap times unless it''s a special occasion or something like a surprise dr. appt.

However, he is not scheduled to the minute. Today for example, he woke up at 6:30 instead of 7. I tried to make him wait till around 8:30 for his first nap, but at 8 he started crying from being tired, so I swaddled him, and he was asleep in minutes and slept till 10.

Ditto, this is what Hunter would do too. Story time would not be fun because he would be moaning and whining ad crying the whole time.

TDM I am really sorry that you are feeling criticised, the tone of your posts made it pretty clear to me anyways that you were feeling defensive. Its easy to feel like that sometimes when people disagree or express an oppositite opinion. But FWIW, I don''t think anyone is criticising you at all, we are all just discussing. I have been the object of such discussions at times, as have the other moms here. TGal may not have been clear in her post, but only some was directed at you I am sure. The rest was more generally directed at the conversations going on. Obviously, you should do whatever you want with your parenting! But if you ask you will get one million and one comments

Ignore whatever offends you, that what I usually try to do.

 

[Dreamer_D]

So Hunter has been waking earlier and earlier!

Today it was 5:30. I am unsure whether to accept this unfortunate turn of events, or to stretch his bedtime to 7:30 and then hope that over time he will sleep to at least 6:30 which is much more manageable! He went down at 7:30 last night because he had a last afternoon nap, but without that nap he is ready for bed at 6pm, 6:30 at thge latest! He has seemed crankier and not well rested since he started waking so early so I think he needs a little more sleep.

Any thoughts??

Sabine I think helping him sleep in his own bed but continuing the night feedings is a good goal for his age. We did something similar with Hunter at 4 months.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/26/2009 4:58:05 AM
Author: TanDogMom

Date: 11/26/2009 2:33:54 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/26/2009 12:42:00 AM

Author: TanDogMom



Neat,, sorry, I forgot to reply to you. It is interesting to hear about the other babies in your group. It is especially interesting to hear about how some of their situations have improved after getting onto a more fixed schedule.


The more I think about it the more I think our flexible schedule is working pretty well for us. I like that each day has a particular rhythm to it, and is pretty predictable, yet can be adapted a little here and there to meet the needs of that day. It would drive me crazy to have us scheduled right down to the minute with no room for flexibility, but it would also drive me crazy (and I''m sure be bad for A) to have no fixed times for anything! So we''re taking a middle of the road approach, I guess. So far so good.


______

Does anyone else''s baby seem really sensitive to noise? We run a white noise machine to try and drown out noise, but sometimes A will wake up when I am doing something in the kitchen, etc. It is frustrating! Our house has an open floor plan so noises carry. Most annoying is that my dogs are way overprotective and bark at anything going on outside, which just sucks if A is napping!

I don''t think any mother who believes in routine here would advocate being scheduled right down to the minute with no room for flexibility. That''s insane.


Assuming that there are two parents living with the child, I guess I just really can''t think of any real ''needs'' of the day that can''t be worked around naps?

The only need that I had where I couldn''t work around Amelia''s nap was my dad''s funeral.


I actually read page 77 in HSHHC after mia pointed it out and in the same section, he talks about co-sleeping. I think co-sleeping is great if everyone is happy with it. I think I read a parenting article once that said something to the effect of ''show me a teenager who wants to sleep in his parents'' bed and I''ll show you a therapy candidate.'' So kids will get to their own beds eventually and if everyone was happy along the way, no harm, no foul, all is good.


What I did think was interesting in that section (and what I agree with just from my own unscientific observations) was that parents who are early cosleepers (ones who believe in the philosophy from the start and use it) vs reactive cosleepers (ones who didn''t plan on it and only used it because it got them some respite from the exhaustion) is that the early ones are happier with the situation in the long run and it works out better for them. Reactive cosleepers tend to want to get that kid out when they get bigger and start to hog blankets and kick parents.

Guess that makes sense because reactive co-sleepers often do it to get better sleep themselves (and get frustrated when that sleep gets more difficult as children get bigger/older) vs early co-sleepers who do it because it''s something they''ve always believed in.


Anyway, this conversation is interesting and I hope that people do NOT do CIO if they are not comfortable with it. As so many mentioned, there are all kinds of different styles of parenting and certainly all kinds of different personalities in children, so there is no one answer. I think parents who have more than one child probably know this best, and as a mother of only one child, I would defer to them.

I must not be expressing myself well about this because I feel like you are missing my point. I''m not talking about the CIO or cosleeping debate at all. I agree with everything you said above about co-sleeping and it''s not for us, but it''s also not what I''ve been posting about! I''m talking about a situation like this one, which is the kind of thing that happens to me all the time:

A friend asks if we would like to meet her and her baby for story time at the library at 9:00 am.

If we are on the strict HSHHC routine, I have to say no - A''s naptime is at 9:00 am, sorry, we can''t make it.

Using my flexible routine, I say sure, sounds fun, we''ll be there. I plan to put A down for his nap when we return home around 10:00 am. Maybe this pushes his afternoon nap a little later too, or maybe not.

If we have no schedule at all, I say sure, sounds fun, let''s go to story time and then brunch, and then I go run errands and A might or might not have a morning nap at all.

So that''s what I mean about flexibility. No, going to story time is not a ''need.'' I will gladly miss it if it''s very important for A to have that nap right at 9 am. But as a SAHM, making plans to leave the house and socialize with other adults is important for me too, and I don''t want to pass on those types of things if A will thrive just as well by having a slightly later nap that day.

What about a mother of 2 who needs to do school drop off/pick up for their older child at 9:00 am while their baby should be napping? What about if you need to go to the doctor for yourself on short notice, and the only appointments available woudl mess with nap time, and you can''t get a babysitter on short notice? Surely there are many situations more pressing than my story time example (which is obviously totally voluntary) but less urgent than a funeral that requires some flexibility. Some more examples that have happened to me recently: Dog is sick, needs to go to the vet and the appointment pushes naptime back a little. I hired someone to do some yardwork which causes the dogs to bark so loudly that A can''t sleep, and the guy is still working at the HSHHC-prescribed naptime, also pushing naptime back. If these kinds of things have really never happened to you, then I admire your amazing planning and luck and/or your ability to get childcare on short notice. If I recall correctly, you have your mom living nearby and a nanny to take care of Amelia while you work and perhaps you could take care of things like dr appointments during times when someone else can watch Amelia. I have no family nearby, and am no longer working so no childcare during the day. My DH works very long hours and cannot miss work unless it is a DIRE emergency. During the days, it''s all me. I have a few people I could call on to watch A but who knows if they would be available on short notice. Regardless, I would feel silly asking for a favor or hiring a babysitter just so that A could nap at 9 instead of 10.

For me the flexible approach works. I think that it is working for A too. I was originally asking how important people think it is to follow HSHHC to the letter. Upon thinking about it more, I''m going to keep on doing what I''m doing.

I''m sorry I brought it up at all because I feel like I am getting criticised.
_____

DH is sick and A has been up several times tonight, totally cranky. That''s not like him. I hope he''s not getting sick. Hey, maybe he has been following this thread and is trying to tell me he needs a stricter routine. Just kidding. Now I will be totally exhausted for the holiday. Oh well what can you do.

First of all, I hope A is not getting sick. Hope he feels better.

Second TDM, I am not criticizing you, and I apologize if I made you feel that way. I AM however, playing a little devil''s advocate as to your rationalization of keeping your flexible schedule. If it''s working for you, great. But I was pointing out that most needs of the day are not really NEEDS, but wants, per the example you gave about going out during your son''s nap for story time because you think it sounds like fun (and mostly likely want to get out of the house!) So I don''t think I am missing your point. Your story is the type of stuff I was referring to.

For young infant (I don''t remember how old A is) one hour can make a difference between tired and overtired. I think most moms at one time or another have had the experiece where a kid misses a nap for whatever reason, and then stay up for the next 8 hours straight missing all the rest of their naps because they can''t get themselves to sleep. This was the reason I protected naps when Amelia was young, and still do it now because it takes longer for her to fall asleep even at 20 months if she is overtired.

Yes, I have a nanny and my mom to take care of her because I work. I took maternity leave for 4.5 months and did not have ANY help. I refused it because I wanted to figure it all out myself (not sure if that was a dumb move or not.) So yes, it difficult because I worked around all naps (and there seemed like a ton) but worth it. When I did finally start working, I STILL ran all errands on a scheduel (this time, DURING her naps) her naps because she was on a solid schedule and I preferred to leave the nanny or my mom at home when she was sleeping. So I always tried to schedule. Now, of course, I leave whenever the heck I feel like it because I trust them both with her.

To answer your questions:

Mother of 2? Sure, dropping your kid off to school is a need. I think most schools have drop offs between 8-9, so you can be home for the first nap. Not to mention most dads can do the drop off. Also when you have number 2, you can adjust that schedule to work with your kids needs and still have a schedule. But right now, I''m talking about having one child.

Doctor''s appointment can be a need, yes, agreed. Most of the time, it can be worked around the child''s schedule. Unless I am dying, I schedule those around naps, so as you can imagine, no, I have never had to go to the doc during Amelia''s nap. If I was dying, I would consider that an emergency and go, and most likely ask TGuy to stay home (which he would because it would be an emergency) while I go and get checked out and get dying medication.

Same goes with the dog. If he''s REALLY sick, that''s a life and death need (up there with changing schedules for funerals

) If he''s not, it gets worked into the schedule. I don''t have a pet because I can''t handle the enormous responsibility of pet AND child. But I always knew I would not want to handle both.

Yardwork? Ha, that happens to me now! Except that I can''t change the times of them coming since I don''t hire them (the landlady does). If it were my home, I''d schedule the work around naptime. Currently she goes down on time and the yardwork happens, on time. If she wakes up, she puts herself back to sleep, I imagine. I''ve never heard her wake up though...because she is tired and sleeping on time, she sleeps soundly.

And finally, yes to Dreamer...I wasn''t addressing CIO/cosleeping with you directly. It was directed at the general conversation.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/23/2009 10:43:54 PM
Author: TanDogMom

Date: 11/23/2009 9:58:36 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/23/2009 9:22:54 PM

Author: dreamer_dachsie


TGAL Right now when Hunter wakes up he is starving! I don''t think we could leave him to amuse himself. When he woke 2-3 times and wasn''t hungry in the morning he would amuse himself singing etc. for a half hour or more, but now I don''t think that would fly.

I''m not advocating leaving him for an hour. Just start with 10 or 15 minutes. He won''t die, as you know.

It teaches them that you don''t come running when they wake up. Trust me, this is a huge help as you go on. Great for naps too for those days for whatever reason they don''t nap long enough. They just stay in their cribs because they know it''s still naptime, regardless of whether they are sleeping or not.

TGal,
I was editing my post above to add MY sleep question while you were posting to DD. So probably you didn''t see my sleep question, but I''m curious as to your thoughts!

BTW TDM, I got into this conversation because you specifically addressed me for my thoughts.

 

[gailrmv]

TGal
Yes, I was feeling criticized by you, so thank you for clarifying that it wasn't your intent. Dreamer was right, I do feel defensive and I'm sure it's coming across in my posts.

It sounds like you have a great system that is obviously working well for your family, and I am very glad. I have enjoyed hearing about it and I've always appreciated your thoughts on sleep related things since you seem to have a lot of knowledge there, which is why I asked for your opinion. I asked for it and got it, and thank you.

Hearing about different kids and different approaches (thank you Pandora, Sabine, and Blen for sharing your experiences) just drives home the point that each child and each family is a bit different, and what works for one does not work for another. In fact, even seeing how much A's needs and disposition have changed in 8 short months shows me that the same kid can change a lot over time.

I seem to have a less predictable life, different obligations (2 dogs plus being a homeowner, but no work currently) and a DH who cannot help much due to the nature and schedule of his job (has to be at work 6 am). I wish my yardwork guy would make a specific appointment and keep it. I wish my dogs would not bark at the yardwork guy, or the UPS guy, or anyone for that matter. I wish my vet and doctors had availability at the time of my choice and never kept me waiting. And most of all, I WISH I had my mom nearby to help me with A. But I don't, but I'm managing around that as best as I can. So, I think it is awesome that what you are doing works so well. I ask you to respect that what I am doing may also be working well for us and our situation. And if it stops working for us, I certainly agree to the merits of your approach and may well be trying it myself in the future.

Back to cooking!

 

[Mara]

what is BTDT?

re: scheduling, i am in the middle of reading HSHHC and funny because last nite i opened it up to where i left off last and there was a little chart that said on WHEN people might want to start working on scheduling sleep habits for babies. it said something like 6-8 weeks if you have to return to work and need to try to set some scheduling up and have a relatively easy child to begin with; 8-16 weeks if you might have a child who needs a bit more time before trying to schedule but is still relatively easy; and 16+ for the rest kind of thing/colicky babies ( i don't remember the last one's specifics ). so basically to me it was saying 'do what works for you'.

i have friends who have done the scheduling almost as soon as they possibly could and it worked out great for them. even 2 years later now they schedule 'outside the house' things around the kid's naps as much as they possibly can. for 'emergencies' aka dog is sick or has to go get something immediately somewhere and no one else can do it, they do disrupt the child's schedule. it works for them but i think for me it's a bit too scheduled.

TDM as a SAHM, you might have more leniency in your schedule than a mom who has to return to work at 12 weeks and wants their child to be more scheduled at that point, esp to help adhere more to the mom's new schedule (for feedings etc). personally i see it as, people should do what works for THEM and their lives. if you don't want an overly scheduled child or to have more flexibility, then go that route. some other people thrive on schedules and knowing what is coming next (and many times think kids do too).

i have til about 15 weeks at home with our upcoming baby, so i am hoping to get scheduling going around the 8-12 week timeframe but we'll see. it seems also like many pre-parents have all these great expectations and in the end they end up doing things entirely differently just based on 'life happens'.

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 11/26/2009 1:36:34 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/23/2009 10:43:54 PM

Author: TanDogMom

Date: 11/23/2009 9:58:36 PM

Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/23/2009 9:22:54 PM


Author: dreamer_dachsie



TGAL Right now when Hunter wakes up he is starving! I don't think we could leave him to amuse himself. When he woke 2-3 times and wasn't hungry in the morning he would amuse himself singing etc. for a half hour or more, but now I don't think that would fly.

I'm not advocating leaving him for an hour. Just start with 10 or 15 minutes. He won't die, as you know.

It teaches them that you don't come running when they wake up. Trust me, this is a huge help as you go on. Great for naps too for those days for whatever reason they don't nap long enough. They just stay in their cribs because they know it's still naptime, regardless of whether they are sleeping or not.

TGal,

I was editing my post above to add MY sleep question while you were posting to DD. So probably you didn't see my sleep question, but I'm curious as to your thoughts!

BTW TDM, I got into this conversation because you specifically addressed me for my thoughts.

I know, I sure did!

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 11/26/2009 1:49:25 PM
Author: Mara
what is BTDT?


re: scheduling, i am in the middle of reading HSHHC and funny because last nite i opened it up to where i left off last and there was a little chart that said on WHEN people might want to start working on scheduling sleep habits for babies. it said something like 6-8 weeks if you have to return to work and need to try to set some scheduling up and have a relatively easy child to begin with; 8-16 weeks if you might have a child who needs a bit more time before trying to schedule but is still relatively easy; and 16+ for the rest kind of thing/colicky babies ( i don't remember the last one's specifics ). so basically to me it was saying 'do what works for you'.


i have friends who have done the scheduling almost as soon as they possibly could and it worked out great for them. even 2 years later now they schedule 'outside the house' things around the kid's naps as much as they possibly can. for 'emergencies' aka dog is sick or has to go get something immediately somewhere and no one else can do it, they do disrupt the child's schedule. it works for them but i think for me it's a bit too scheduled.


TDM as a SAHM, you might have more leniency in your schedule than a mom who has to return to work at 12 weeks and wants their child to be more scheduled at that point, esp to help adhere more to the mom's new schedule (for feedings etc). personally i see it as, people should do what works for THEM and their lives. if you don't want an overly scheduled child or to have more flexibility, then go that route. some other people thrive on schedules and knowing what is coming next (and many times think kids do too).


i have til about 15 weeks at home with our upcoming baby, so i am hoping to get scheduling going around the 8-12 week timeframe but we'll see. it seems also like many pre-parents have all these great expectations and in the end they end up doing things entirely differently just based on 'life happens'.

Totally agree with your last sentence! Just to clarify, we do have a loose schedule. In theory it would make sense to have a working mom's child on a strict schedule; this is what I thought too. However, while I was preggo and visited a few highly rated daycares (because I was planning to go back full time) I asked them if they would enforce the schedule that I had my kid on. They said they would try, but no promises! They seemed a little put off by my request, I guess because they have so many kids to look after that it might be hard to enforce a different schedule for each. So I would definitely check in with your child care provider as to whether they prefer your kid be highly scheduled or not. And of course, a lot of what works or doesn't work will depend on your child!