Proposal in the wings?

[jennypoo]

Hello! I''m newly registered to the forums, but I''ve been lurking for the past few days. You guys give really solid advice, so here it goes...

I''ve been with my BF for 8 years this August. We''ve been dating since I was 18 and he was 19. We''re now 26 and 27. He''s always said he wants to marry me, but he wouldn''t propose while we were still in school and living at home with our parents for obvious reasons.

Well, we''re both done school, have stable full-time careers and purchased our first home one year ago this past January.

Around Christmas time, he began talking about looking at rings to my brother (my brother is 24 and they get along great), and my brother leaked this information to me. I was SO excited at the prospect that it might finally happen, then when Christmas morning came and went with no ring, I was crushed.

We''ve touched upon the topic a few times since (marriage, not rings), and we''re definitely both on the same page. We had one big blow up two months ago due to me catching a WICKED case of engagement fever (I recently signed up for "facebook" and discovered that most of my former classmates were recently engaged and/or married) and I FREAKED. As the scenario usually goes, the engaged/married friends had been dating for much less time than my BF and I.

He calmed me down by reassuring me that we WILL be getting married someday, and that if he gave me a ring right now (meaning at the time of the blow-up), it would be only to pacify me, and he doesn''t want to do it that way. He said he knew how important it was to me and how much it means to me to be engaged, and assured me that it will happen, but didn''t give any indication as to WHEN. I promised never to mention it again, and I''ve been good so far.

Lately he''s been exhibiting some strange behavior and dropping some hints... such as:

* His buddy recently purchased a house which his girlfriend will be moving in to. (My BF and I bought our house jointly.) His buddy asked my BF if he should do the same, and my BF made a point of telling me that this is what he told his friend: "If this is the girl you''re planning on starting a life with and marrying some day, I would totally buy it jointly with her." I thought it was bizarre that he made a point of telling me this!

* He recently sold his toy (a little red sports compact he bought when he was 19 and spent a ton of money fixing up / decking out). He said he was going to use the proceeds of sale as a downpayment for a new toy right away, but instead I found out he opened up a new savings account and put it in there. Now, this may be because he wants to take time deciding on what he wants, although he hasn''t been car shopping lately.

* He''s been making trips out of town quite frequently with his best friend to "look at baseball stuff" yet he always seems to come home empty handed? (He always told me that when he decides to buy a ring, he''d go to this jewelery store out of town that is owned by the brother of a guy he works with.)

* He recently got his income tax return. We''ve been attempting to do some minor renovations to our home, and when I mentioned using part of his return to fund some of it, he told me it was spent, but wouldn''t tell me on what.

* During dinner the other night, he started talking about the length of time we''ve been dating. "How long has it been now? Eight years, eh?" I said, yeah, and we haven''t killed each other yet, so that''s promising! I mentioned something along the lines of "we might as well be married!" And he said, "We are married - IN COMMON-LAW!" I''m like, that''s BS! I want the real thing! And he just laughed...

Anyway, I''m probably just reading into things WAY too much (as usual) and it''s just very wishful thinking that a proposal might be in the wings...

Sorry this is so long... any thoughts?

 

[Haven]

Jenny--YAY! I don''t think you''re reading too far into things at all; it definitely sounds like he''s dropping some big hints. Besides--you own a home together, and you KNOW it will happen one day, so you have every reason to be excited.

Please let us know how it turns out!

 

[iwannaprettyone]

Sounds like he is scheming something! lol

Cool, keep up posted girlfriend!

 

[Stephanie]

Wow, Jen! You and I have the same type of guy. Down to the car and everything (my guy has two that he''ll never give up!). We, too, have been living together for five years this August and dating for eight in January. And honestly, I think that the "fever" is worse when you live together. It''s hard not to want to talk about what''s on your mind - especially if it makes you upset. And you don''t want to keep talking about engagement and such because then you feel like you are pushing. It''s a terrible Catch 22!

All these little clues sound really promising! I think that he''s really trying hard to make it a surprise for you.

 

[bee*]

First of all-welcome

Secondly, it definitely sounds like your bf has a proposal in the works! I know how rotten the feeling is when everyone around you seems to be getting engaged (im with my bf nearly 8 years too), but it definitely sounds as though your bf is working on something so try as hard as you can not to bring it up(I know, much easier said than done!). Im sure you''ll be posting your proposal story up here soon!

 

[jennypoo]

YAY! Thanks so much for the positive feedback, guys!

I''m trying SO hard not to get too excited... but truly only time will tell!

 

[anchor31]

That''s so exciting! I truly admire your patience... I was 18 too when we started dating, but I don''t know if I would have been able to not freak out for over 7 years!

 

[NYCsparkle]

def. sound like suspicious engagement behavior...

 

[gladyskristen]

Ooo~ Big hints!

 

[Pandora II]

Mystic Pandora predicts an August engagement!

Yay for August anniversaries - we''re the 14th.

 

[LaurenThePartier]

This sounds like definite sneaky engagement behavior. I would start getting manicures within the next few weeks, just to be prepared, you know?

 

[jennypoo]

Date: 6/6/2007 7:15:40 PM
Author: LaurenThePartier
This sounds like definite sneaky engagement behavior. I would start getting manicures within the next few weeks, just to be prepared, you know?

LOL - I was actually thinking the exact same thing! It''s not a bad idea, especially when everyone will be asking to take a peek... hehe

 

[gladyskristen]

Date: 6/6/2007 7:15:40 PM
Author: LaurenThePartier
This sounds like definite sneaky engagement behavior. I would start getting manicures within the next few weeks, just to be prepared, you know?

Yes... Pls don''t be like me! Unmanicured nails... and urgh, those cuticles!

 

[Sassee]

Yep I agree with the above posters. I think they start to learn how seriously we take all of this stuff, and it would be incredibly unfair of him to be dropping such massive hints and cracking jokes, if he really wasn''t considering it in a very real way!

Sounds like it is only a matter of weeks away!

Good luck and I hope he doesn''t keep you as an LIW for too much longer!!

 

[whenharrymetsally]

Heehe Definitely sounds like there''s something cookin!

 

[jennypoo]

Ok, a quick update.

The BF was away most of last week (Sunday to Friday), as well as this week for work-related training. Before he went away, he was adamant that he wanted me to come up and visit him. This was before he realized how much training is actually packed into those two weeks. Anyway, when he came home last Friday, he was naturally super happy to see me, as I was him. He told me to get dressed because he was taking for me out dinner. He ended up taking me out to a nice restaurant, and he was so nervous and fidgety the whole time. I DEFINITELY thought something was up. Then, we went to see a movie and didn''t get home until around midnight. Sadly, that was the end of it. A wonderful night, mind you, but I thought something *BIG* was going to happen. *Sigh*

Saturday, we went shopping in the mall, and of course, passed by several jewelry stores. He''s always told me he''d buy the ring from a private jeweler, but I just like to get ideas. So when I saw this absolutely gorgeous ring in a display case, he just kept walkimg. I said, "Aren''t you even curious as to what I like?" And was like, "Nope!" Meanwhile, I''ve shown him a zillion times before what style I like. Later that day, we went to his family''s annual summer BBQ, and, as usual, his family was poking and prodding as to when we were going to get engaged. His *MOTHER* told us to "skip the engagement and go straight to the wedding" to which I replied, "I DON''T THINK SO!" And I thought this woman was on my side! His aunt then asked how long we''ve been dating, to which I replied, "Well, I mean it''s ONLY been 8 years!" My BF just laughed.

On the way home, I asked him if he had any sort of timeline in his mind as to when he would like to get engaged, and his response was "Nope", but in a playful way. I then asked him if he ever thinks about it, and again, "Nope." I said, "FINE - I''ll just shut up about it and learn to accept the fact that we will NEVER get engaged OR married." And all he said was "Good, the sooner you learn to deal with it, the better!"

BAH! God, this is SO frustrating! I wish I could just be given a tiny little CONCRETE clue that something was definitely in the works. The suspense is KILLING ME!

 

[TravelingGal]

Sounds like your bf is having a little fun "torturing" you.

If I were you, I''d do my ultimate best to put a sock in it (I mean that in the nicest way) and at least pretend it''s not getting under your skin. At some point maybe he''ll go, "whoa, what''s going on? I''d better propose because she''s losing interest." (I''m kidding btw, because that''s obviously not a great reason to propose.)

There was a post on the LIW not too long ago about this whole proposal thing from a gal''s bf''s perspective. Basically it said that this is one moment in all the marriage madness that is going to be all his, not to be shared by anyone but the couple (unless he chooses to). This is his time to enjoy before he''s got a woman who worries about dresses, venues, cakes, invite lists, embosssing or no embossing, wants spring flowers in the fall, fall flowers spring, thinks her bridesmaids aren''t pulling their weight, worries about her weight...

You get the idea? Let him have his moment. Please.

 

[jennypoo]

Date: 6/11/2007 8:06:55 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Sounds like your bf is having a little fun ''torturing'' you.

If I were you, I''d do my ultimate best to put a sock in it (I mean that in the nicest way) and at least pretend it''s not getting under your skin. At some point maybe he''ll go, ''whoa, what''s going on? I''d better propose because she''s losing interest.'' (I''m kidding btw, because that''s obviously not a great reason to propose.)


There was a post on the LIW not too long ago about this whole proposal thing from a gal''s bf''s perspective. Basically it said that this is one moment in all the marriage madness that is going to be all his, not to be shared by anyone but the couple (unless he chooses to). This is his time to enjoy before he''s got a woman who worries about dresses, venues, cakes, invite lists, embosssing or no embossing, wants spring flowers in the fall, fall flowers spring, thinks her bridesmaids aren''t pulling their weight, worries about her weight...


You get the idea? Let him have his moment. Please.

Point taken.

You''re absolutely right. I need to just shut up about it and wait... patiently. "Good things come to those who wait" is the quote that keeps playing in my head like a broken record.

 

[jennypoo]

Ok, so I''m 100% sure he does NOT have a ring, nor has he been "planning" like I suspected (or hoped). I feel so let down and disappointed. I''m beyond tears at this point. I''m really just feeling apathetic towards the whole situation. I can''t force him to do something he obviously isn''t willing to do. It''s like a Catch 22. If I don''t mention it, he assumes I''m happy with our relationship (which I am, don''t get me wrong) and continuing on the way things are. However, I can''t keep bottling up my emotions. He knows how important it is to me, yet his latest "reason" why it hasn''t happened yet is because his co-workers (a group of bitter, jaded men, in my opinion) keep telling him not to do it based on their own experiences. There are, however, other men he works with who are happily married - why can''t he just listen to them?

Ugh. We had a huge blow up again last night. I was so sure he had something up his sleeve based on the comments he''d been making lately. Actually, my family was pretty sure, too. Turns out I or they couldn''t be more wrong. Not only has he not been saving, he hasn''t been looking nor had he planned on it. He said he has a hard time understanding why HE should have to buy ME an expensive flashy ring, when he gets nothing! I said it''s not even about that - it''s about the solidification of our commitment to one another. He says, "What''s a piece of paper really going to change?" Well, hell! If it''s not going to change anything, then why not just do it!

I honestly don''t care anymore. It''ll be eight years in August. Eight years. I feel so embarrassed and disappointed. I really thought we''d be long past this point by now. I always envisioned us getting married. I honestly don''t know what could possibly be the hold up anymore.

His last words before we finally fell asleep last night were, "Fine! I''ll go out and buy the ring tomorrow just to make you happy!" I said that''s not the way I want to do it. I want it to happen because HE wants it to happen. He told me during our last blow-up that if I were to get a ring now, it would only be to "pacify" me. I really doubt he''ll do that, though. It''s just talk.

I''m 26, and in a few years I''ll want to start a family. I''m not doing that out of wedlock. Not that I don''t condone it, that''s not what I want. I guess the bottom line is either he will propose or he won''t propose. The rest will be up to me.

 

[Becky P]

Oh honey! I''m so sorry! There''s nothing worse than realizing that your bf has not been planning something. Is he just trying to throw you off? Maybe he does have something planned but wants it to be a HUGE surprise? Or are you sure he hasn''t been planning anything? If he hasn''t been planning anything, and after 8 years, I guess you''ve gotta ask yourself those tough questions, like, are you okay just dating this man and living with him forever? If you''re not, then you have some tough choices to make - as does he... Such a difficult situation to find yourself in - just gotta figure out how to make sure you''re making the best decisions for YOU because you''re who matters here - you''ve gotta look out for yourself. My thoughts are with you!

 

[Stephanie]

Jenny, I am so sorry that you had to have that fight. It is disappointing, I know. Perhaps you two could talk more when you''ve both calmed down a little. Does he get defensive when you bring up marriage and engagement?

 

[jennypoo]

Thanks so much for your support!

Becky P: No, I honestly don''t think he was trying to throw me off - I believe him when he said he hasn''t been saving for one, nor has he been interested in looking at one.

Stephanie: He hasn''t been getting defensive about the subtle comments I''ve been making lately, which lead me to believe that something was underway. Last night probably wasn''t the optimum time to bring it up, though. It was a long day for us both, and I think he was a little on the cranky side to begin with.

You girls who have gotten engaged or who are in the process of choosing the ring with your respective boyfriends are SO lucky. I really wish it could be that simple for me.

 

[Independent Gal]

Oh, Jenny, I'm sorry to hear this! It does sound like he is making very clear that he's not ready for marriage and it may never be what he wants. I think it might be time to seriously consider what you want and take care of yourself.

People have said many times on this board that when a man says clearly what he is thinking or what he wants, we sometimes don't listen or don't really 'hear' him. Of course, it sounds like you two were pretty angry when you had that fight. So I'd raise the issue soon again in a way that isn't 'whiny' but rather informing him of what you want and what would make you happy. "I see myself starting a family in the next few years, and I won't do that out of wedlock. It sounds like that's not what you want. And I don't want to be married to someone who does not want to be married to me. So I have to think about my future and take care of myself."

Then I'd do just that. Think about it. Hard!

It will be really hard if you end up breaking up. But not as hard as waiting another two years, getting more bitter, upset and angry, and THEN breaking up. Or worse, him buying hte ring to 'keep you quiet' you two getting married, adn then divorced a couple of years later because he's not truly 'committed' to the marriage. That's exactly the scenario described in that article we were discussing about couples who live together for a long time before they get married. The divorce rate in those scenarios is really, really high (although demographics do play into it and every couple is different!).

This sounds SUPER tough and I'm really sorry you're going through this. But you DO have to take care of yourself and make sure you are not letting him decide the course of your life. Let us know how things are going, ok? We are here to support you.

ETA: If you end up breaking up, you WILL find someone who wants to marry you just as much as you want to marry him! Many of us have kissed a lot of frogs before finding our guy. I know I certainly have.

 

[princesss]

Oh, honey, I''m so sorry to hear this. I think, unfortunately, you have some things to think about that aren''t going to be fun. (I do want to preface this by saying I am in no way encouraging you to break up with him, but I do think there are things you need answers from yourself on before you bring this up with him again.)

Is being with him or having a family more important to you? I mean, quite honestly, if you had to live without getting married and having kids, could you do it and be happy? Because if not, that''s something that you need to talk about with your BF. It sounds to me like he may not truly realize that this isn''t just about how your relationship stands now, but how it affects your happiness in 15 years!

What does marriage mean to you? What do you feel you are lacking in your relationship right now that you would have when married? (I know this is an odd question, but I think it''s important. I, personally, want the ceremony where we promise to be there for each other forever, I want the blessing of the church, I want the permanence implied by going through with the whole thing.)

Those things said, I do know a girl who was as convinced as you were that her boyfriend would never propose. He had her convinced he didn''t believe in marriage, that it was a horrible institution...I''ve never seen a girl more miserable in my life. She wanted to marry him so badly, and he went out of her way to make her believe that it would never happen, so she was even more surprised when he proposed. She said yes....I, personally, would have killed him.

I hope this post didn''t come across as mean or unsupportive...I just want you to be able to make the best choice for you if he really has decided he doesn''t want to get married. I have my fingers crossed that it''s all an act, and that he''s just upset that you figured him out, though, and I''m hoping for the absolute best for you!

 

[IrishAngel7982]

Jenny~
I''m so sorry for what you''re going through. I agree with what the other girls have said...take some time to simmer down, and then have a serious conversation with your guy. If he truly doesn''t want to get married, it''s only fair that you know. Then you have to decide what is best for you. Good luck and I wish you all the best!

 

[jennypoo]

Thanks to all for the much appreciated support!

I spoke with him again today over the phone (I'm @ work, he had the day off), and he reassured me that he definitely does want to get married and he knows he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, he just doesn't get why I'm in such a "rush." Then he said, "Okay, okay, I get that it's been eight years." And I said, "OH, but we certainly don't want to RUSH into anything!" and he laughed. He said he doesn't mind having talks about it, he just doesn't like to feel pressured, nor does he like it when I get "whiny." Sometimes I let it simmer too long before I open up and say anything, so then it does come across as whiny. He said he knows how important it is to me, and says he's always been there to take care of me like a husband would a wife.

I explained that while HE doesn't quite "get" what a piece of paper will change, it's important to me and it is something I want. He has kept all of the other promises he's made to me to date, and he DID in fact give me a promise ring (albeit, three years ago), so I have to keep trusting he'll stick with this one as well. I just DON'T GET what the hold up is - and he said it's just not on his agenda this very moment, but something he definitely wants to do. He said he'll propose when he feels ready. So I suppose I should probably back off for a bit. But like I said, he said he doesn't mind the subtle hints and just talking "calmly" about it.

Why is this SO simple for some people, yet it seems so impossible for others?

 

[DMBsGirl]

I really don't know why it takes some guys longer than others. I too have been dating my boyfriend for eight years. Like you, we were VERY young when we first met and living with our parents until very recently. Owning his own apartment was something he wanted to do before getting engaged and that goal was accomplished six months ago. We are basically living together now and it seems like everyone in the world is getting engaged. I am the last of my college friends to get engaged/married. My bf, like yours, says that he wants to get married, but I think he enjoys torturing me! Some say that guys like to plan a special proposal and this takes time, but if they only knew that the more time passes the more bitter we get because they have taken so long. Do you think there could be a chance that your bf was trying to throw you off? It seems so strange that he had been throwing out some MAJOR hints before and then said the complete opposite of what his actions were implying. Maybe he realized he was giving too many hints and wants you to think there is no chance of it happening and THEN do it? I say this because I remember my boyfriend once saying, "I will make you think there is no hope and then BOOM i'll propose." (such a sweet guy right???

)

 

[Stephanie]

Date: 6/21/2007 5:13:40 PM
Author: DMBsGirl
I really don''t know why it takes some guys longer than others. I too have been dating my boyfriend for eight years. Like you, we were VERY young when we first met and living with our parents until very recently. Owning his own apartment was something he wanted to do before getting engaged and that goal was accomplished six months ago. We are basically living together now and it seems like everyone in the world is getting engaged. I am the last of my college friends to get engaged/married. My bf, like yours, says that he wants to get married, but I think he enjoys torturing me! Some say that guys like to plan a special proposal and this takes time, but if they only knew that the more time passes the more bitter we get because they have taken so long. Do you think there could be a chance that your bf was trying to throw you off? It seems so strange that he had been throwing out some MAJOR hints before and then said the complete opposite of what his actions were implying. Maybe he realized he was giving too many hints and wants you to think there is no chance of it happening and THEN do it? I say this because I remember my boyfriend once saying, ''I will make you think there is no hope and then BOOM i''ll propose.'' (such a sweet guy right???

)

That would just be too much torture for me.. Jenny, I am glad that you talked to him and that he understood. But have you two talked about a time line of any type (children, marriage, etc..)?

 

[Independent Gal]

I don''t know Jenny! Everyone has to decide what they themselves are comfortable with, but this wouldn''t sound good to me. Won''t you just keep getting more and more bitter? Check out what Starset Princess has said about the damage to her relationship in this situation.

It sounds like he is not at all ambivalent about YOU but VERY ambivalent about marriage. And is hoping he can have you without the marriage bit.

Maybe suggest a more detailed conversation. Maybe tell him that people only WHINE when someone else has power over them (seriously, think about it!). It''s your LIFE! And you are entitled to push him a little when he''s not taking responsibility for how his lack of decision affects you. Of course you don''t want him to marry you if he feels forced, AND you don''t want to ''hang on'' and then end up starting to date again at 30. So, I don''t see that he completely should get to set the timeline as ''when I''m ready''.

People don''t htink about things that are hard to think about unless they have to. If he''s ambivalent about the idea marriage now, I bet you anything he just won''t think about it for as long as he can get away with not thinking about it.

If it were me, I''d be assertive. After 8 years!!!!!

But then again, I''m kind of a pushy gal.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/21/2007 9:16:06 AM
Author: jennypoo

His last words before we finally fell asleep last night were, ''Fine! I''ll go out and buy the ring tomorrow just to make you happy!'' I said that''s not the way I want to do it. I want it to happen because HE wants it to happen. He told me during our last blow-up that if I were to get a ring now, it would only be to ''pacify'' me. I really doubt he''ll do that, though. It''s just talk.

I''m 26, and in a few years I''ll want to start a family. I''m not doing that out of wedlock. Not that I don''t condone it, that''s not what I want. I guess the bottom line is either he will propose or he won''t propose. The rest will be up to me.

Well, you wanting him to want it to happen is not going to make him want it to happen (did that fry your brain?

) When I read your first post, my first thought was "I wonder if she''s reading into things too much." Take that with a grain of salt though, because I am a huge cynic.

It does sound like he loves you. It''s also obvious that he''s not ready for marriage (unless this IS a attempt to throw you off the scent, in which case that''s just cruel.) You''re probably smart enough to know that a guy who gets engaged because the gal wants it to happen is often a recipe for disaster. He has to want it as much as you do.

That being said, this is your life. You''ve got some things to think about and I have no easy answers for you, but wish you good luck!