Problems getting internet stones set

[theboss]

I''m in the chicago suburbs trying to get a blue nile stone appraised and set into a ring I bought elsewhere and so far I''m 3 for 3 with jewelers that seem generally disinterested in working with me.

Of course they will all do it but from their attitude it feels like they''re doing me a favor, also they all want 8-14 days to do the appraisals and setting.

The person I bought the ring from (friend of a friend that sells wholesale) said her contact can appraise it and set it in 2 days but never having seen this jeweler I don''t necessarily trust them and I would like a third party involved on the appraisal anyway.

So is the 8-10 day thing normal for this type of work or should I keep calling people? The 14 day place said they need 10 days to do an appraisal because 1 person handles it for 3 stores, but they are the quickest for setting the stone. The 8 day guy said he can do the appraisal the same day but he sends his diamond setting work out. The 10 day place does everything in house but is already trying to convince me I shouldn''t have bought a stone of the internet (over the phone no less, without seeing anything) and cannot give me any type of price quote on the appraisals or the work.

Although my proposal plans are not totally set I may have an opportunity on the 14th and would rather do this sooner than later.

Would it be really bad to go to the 14 day place and just ask them to do the setting and then worry about the appraisal later?

 

[MissAva]

I would not get it appraised by a jewler I would get it done by an independent appreasier. That way they have no intreast in what they are reporting to you. Then learn the inclusions and you can check it after it has been set.

 

[theboss]

I understand how they might be more accomodating to a client that bought a stone and setting from them but more than anything I hate the attitude that anything not bought in their shop is inferior.

And you''re right, I did not shop in any of their stores for anything, but I am a customer that will need wedding bands and will undoubtably need other jewelery and or work down the road. In fact I already dropped one of my other rings off at the first jeweler I mentioned to get some other work done to it (which they just told me now - 10 days after the fact - that they are unable to do, it''s a long story and i do believe them for the most part).

Perhaps just getting the stone set should be my priority for now and I''ll worry about the apprasal later. It''s just I kind of wanted the stone checked out before it''s too late to send it back to blue nile... although throughout this whole process up to this point they are the ones I trust the most.

Almost everyone on here buys from the PS vendors, most of which have 10 day return policies, how do you guys get your stuff appraised within the return period?

 

[belle]

Date: 7/9/2005 6:05:25 PM
Author: theboss
Almost everyone on here buys from the PS vendors, most of which have 10 day return policies, how do you guys get your stuff appraised within the return period?

appraisals are generally for insurance purposes. you have 10 days to decide whether or not you want to keep the stone. during this time, you could take it to compare to other stones in your area, look at it in various lighting conditions, etc. once you decide to keep it, you could start looking to have it appraised. there really isn''t any reason to have it appraised within the 10 day return period.

 

[1stdiamondbuy]

I had mine sent directly to an independent appraiser before I even before I even paid for it. He charged $5 to confirm the diamond matched the cert or $10 to confirm it matched the cert and give me the wholesale and retail values ... not a full blown on paper insurance appraisal, just an estimate based on the specs to make me comfortable that I got a good deal.

I have not gotten it set yet and have run into many many many jewelers with the same "I didn''t sell it, I won''t set it" attitude. I have recently found 1 that I am buying the setting from who is setting for free. I guess I''d say just keep searching for somebody that is customer friendly. I probably went to or called about 15 before I found this one. Several would set it for a relatively big charge ($150 on top of setting price) and would take at least 2 weeks. This last one will set within a week. Persistence and good luck I guess.

 

[1stdiamondbuy]

I don''t think it was about self-insuring. The higher priced ones still said that they would take no liability for damage during setting. Their attitudes, tone, pricing, and timing basically said they weren''t interested. I had read the long thread where JM posted that they will insure during setting and called the jeweler I am going with and he is insured by JM, so I am going that route.

 

[Regular Guy]

Seems like this thread has gone a few different directions.

To your original question of wanting to get your ring appraised and set, I would agree that you''ll probably want to keep those processes separate, and disagree about the order...first appraisal, and then setting. Belle, you opinion might agree with what I tend to believe:

Date: 7/9/2005 7:24:18 PM
Author: belle

Date: 7/9/2005 6:05:25 PM
Author: theboss
Almost everyone on here buys from the PS vendors, most of which have 10 day return policies, how do you guys get your stuff appraised within the return period?

appraisals are generally for insurance purposes. you have 10 days to decide whether or not you want to keep the stone. during this time, you could take it to compare to other stones in your area, look at it in various lighting conditions, etc. once you decide to keep it, you could start looking to have it appraised. there really isn''t any reason to have it appraised within the 10 day return period.

and it may be that in reality, a buyer can do best by comparing broadly, and making a purchase decision on that basis, however, I think TheBoss''s basic intent is in the majority, and that while the endgame of acquiring insurance is part of why one goes to an appraiser, it is typical to want to also have the diamond checked out as part of the consideration process. For example, it''s not expected to be the case, but maybe you want to know it wasn''t pawned off on Blue Nile, and isn''t just a well cut CZ! Once it''s both checked out by an appraiser, and ideally compared by you to other comparables, and then after your 10 day review process is over, then you can have it set however it makes sense.

I just came back from Chicago, and in advance of the trip, confirmed with PGS there they serve the public; despite the rumor of bad press, I would try them, and ask them if they''d meet your time requirements. This is based on the norms in today''s world.

In my more perfect world, I would prefer to suggest you do more of what you''ve been doing, but dropping the part of also seeking to get the diamond set by the same place that appraises it. I think it could be reasonable to mix what you''re intending and what Belle is saying into one process...get your ring appraised at a NAJA gemologist jeweler, where you can both get a good appraisal, and also, compare in a well stocked shop what you''ve purchased, against what their other offerings are. The trick could be to begin the process with an agreement that the appraising and comparing will be part of their process with you, however, they would also agree in advance that they will NOT sell you anything. This makes them an effective independent appraiser in their relationship with you, but gives you the opportunity to compare your selection to other available options. Anyway, this is a proposal, and an idea, and if you find it unworkable, the independent appraiser idea is another more tried and proven route, PGS is one, and there''s another in your area; look up under resources and appraisers.

I would like to suggest that an independent appraiser may recommend a setter to you, solving that other piece of the puzzle. Ideally, he or she would recommend them only based on knowing they tend to be good, but otherwise, having no relationship with them. This being the case, the appraiser can supply the other part of their intended relationship with you...and that is to evaluate not only the diamond itself, but also the craftsmanship brought to the setting of the diamond into the setting. Generally, insurance policies insure after the diamond is set, there are sometimes problems that do happen in the setting process, and having your appraiser -- who is separate from your setter -- be able to see the diamond before and after it is set does help to insure that the setting process was done well...because if it''s not been done well, the appraiser can direct it be fixed, giving you a basis upon which to go back to the setter for a correction. Of course, if the appraiser and the setter are the same person, it is less likely that the appraiser will direct the buyer to have it redone...there is no checking of that process. Since most diamonds come with some sort of appraisal anyway, of course it''s that checking that your frequently wanting to get with the purchase of an appraiser''s services, so I think it''s best to not short change that.

If this will work...with your getting the diamond appraised before your time period is up, there should not be a rush to have it set as well within the 10 days.

Just some thoughts.

Best wishes,

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/9/2005 6:05:25 PM
Author: theboss

Almost everyone on here buys from the PS vendors, most of which have 10 day return policies, how do you guys get your stuff appraised within the return period?

By calling the appraiser in advance to schedule an appraisal. Then have the vendor send directy to the appraiser, who will complete his work and ship it either back to you or back to vendor.

 

[SquareCut]

Don''t purchase a stone from a vendor who will not set it for you.

 

[theboss]

Date: 7/11/2005 12:01:03 PM
Author: SquareCut
Don''t purchase a stone from a vendor who will not set it for you.

I don''t think that''s a very realistic solution, most of the people that participate in the forums have bought their diamonds separate from the rings.

 

[oldminer]

One issue of importance is that the vendor is not responsible for negligence of others in setting the diamond when the consumer selects the firm or person to do the setting work. This puts the original diamond vendor out of the loop and for good reason. If any inadvertent damage occurs, it surely is not anything to do with the vendor of the diamond, when they didn't do the setting work.

If JM will pursue setters who are not JM insured for damage, then you will find very few places willing to take the risk on their own. Even if a place has a written agreement with a consumer that they are not liable for damage, a court might find otherwise. You cannot waive gross negligence and that is always possible issue.

I wish we had true statistics on the risks involved with this work, in all its variations. It is not all the same set of risks. What if a diamond is set and it happens to come out of the prongs in a 10 day period and become lost? What if it comes out a year after setting? Is the setter always the responsible one? When does such liability cease? Who has experience in such a case. If you are properly insured, no problem with a loss, but without insurance, what would you do. Who might be responsible?

There are many unresolved questions although certain problems now appear to have reasonable solutions. No doubt, the seller of the diamond should do the setting work. That is the best way to proceed. Second best is the maker/seller of the mounting. After those two choices, there are going to be additional problems.

 

[SquareCut]

Date: 7/11/2005 3:00:21 PM
Author: Feydakin
I think what sc meant was to buy your diamonds from people that offer more services than ''just'' selling diamonds..

Yes. I used Mark Turnowsky. He can get you the blue nile stone you want, the setting that you want and set it for you. I understand that there are a lot of great pricescope vendors who will do the same. I don''t like too many hands on my diamond

. Too much can go wrong. They might switch the stone, loose the stone,damage the stone during the setting process.

 

[denverappraiser]

Squarecut,

Going into a jewelry store, telling them what you want and buying it is a perfectly reasonable solution. You are buying the diamond, the ring and the labor from the same supplier and it’s usually quite easy. This is, in fact, what the majority of people do. It’s not really necessary to physically walk into the store. This transaction can be done over large distances and the communication can be via the internet if you wish and there are lots of high quality jewelers like the one you listed who are happy to offer just this. The problem is that many internet customers are hoping to buy a diamond, a mounting, an appraisal and some assembly labor in an ala carte approach from different suppliers in the hopes that they will get better prices, better products, better documentation or all of these things. This regularly turns out to be the case although there are some details about the relationships between these things that aren’t entirely obvious. Limiting the list of possible suppliers to those who are willing and able to supply all of components as a package deal puts a substantial crimp in this tactic.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Slykat12]

Gee of course buying your whole package from one vender is the best but not always possible.

My seller does not set nor carry settings. I chose him because he alone found a diamond within my specs. Yes, I could have back stabbed him and ran to Whiteflash telling them about the existance of the stone so they could import it, sell it to me, and set it, but that is plain evil.

What if blue nile has a great stone but you don't like the settings? If looking for a hard to find stone you must buy it where u find it. Settings are an afterthought in that situation.

I am willing to buy 3 platinum rings from a vender willing to set my rock and take reasponsibility for any damage. I think that fair. Heck I will toss in a nice tip too. Any takers?

 

[theboss]

I''m not trying to sound unappreciative of the suggestions made here, I guess I''m just surprised that my situation is so unique.

Just to recap because I feel like the conversation has gone in a bit of a circle, I already have the setting in my possesion, I bought the setting "wholesale" and although the person I bought from is happy to have my stone mounted for me I''m a bit uncomfortable with that arrangement because I don''t know who''s doing the work or where it''s being done.

I guess you could say that I made a mistake buying the setting through this person, however BN didn''t really have any settings that stood out to me, so buying one of their settings was never really an option. And I was most comfortable buying the stone from BN (I know there are other good vendors, but the 90 day same as cash, 30 day return policy, selection and reputation all went into that decision). They have also been extremely helpful and knowledgeable throughout this entire process. On top of it all I''m not convinced I''m paying a significant amount more than i would be at any of the more reputable PS vendors. I would agree that the majority of stones on BN are more expensive than comparable stones from PS vendors but I think the well prepared shopper can find some very nice stones and good deals on there as well.

All of that being said I can''t send my mounting into BN to be set, I imagine that''s the case for a lot of internet loose diamond sellers.

Along the lines of what denverappraiser said, I think my mistake was thinking that the ala carte approach would be more simple than it''s turning out to be. I knew the local jewelers wouldn''t be happy to see a customer walk in with a setting and a stone but I honestly didn''t think it was that unique of a situation... don''t people upgrade exisiting rings all the time, isn''t it the same thing?

 

[denverappraiser]

People have this problem regularly. The variety of answer you are getting revolves around a new policy of Jewelers Mutual insurance that has changed the issue a bit. It’s only a few weeks old and they haven’t published the details in writing so there is quite a bit of confusion. Use the search box at the top right corner of this page to search for things like ‘breakage risk’ and ‘liability’ and you should get some interesting reading material on this subject. If you already own the diamond and the mounting, here are your options.

1) Find a jeweler who will set the stone and agree to assume the liability. This isn’t usually all that difficult but it occasionally is frustrating because not everyone who calls themself a jeweler wants to be in this piece of the business. Your chances go up with the independently owned jewelry stores where the shop is in the store. There are several jewelers here that will do it and most of the appraisers can help you find someone. It’s not that hard unless you’ve got a very special case. Any setter will reserve the right to refuse the job after they get the opportunity to see all of the components, of course, and the people who can and will take the risk are not usually the cheapest places to get work done but it is possible in most towns and the prices are usually quite reasonable. Where are you?

2) Go with a lower cost setter and assume the risk yourself. The setter should be able to give you some estimation of what the problems are. For most situations, especially round stones with prongs, the risk is pretty low.

3) Bind an insurance policy on the loose stone and mounting with Jewelers Mutual and then have it set by whoever you wish. The setter still may or may not want your work for the price that you are offering but if they are also covered by a JM policy then they are covered against this risk. JM is big in this business and they should be able to refer you to their commercial clients in your area. If you were otherwise planning on buying a JM policy and you like the craftsmanship of your local JM insured jeweler this is pretty attractive, otherwise it’s fairly expensive.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Slykat12]

Forgive me Boss I may have missed something but if you pay for shipping for the diamond and setting back to Blue Nile and pay for it back to yourself what reason is Blue nile giving to you for not setting their own rock? Are they nervous about the quality of the setting?

BTW your situation is not unique I am going through it now.

 

[theboss]

Date: 7/12/2005 5:06:50 PM
Author: Kimberly
Forgive me Boss I may have missed something but if you pay for shipping for the diamond and setting back to Blue Nile and pay for it back to yourself what reason is Blue nile giving to you for not setting their own rock? Are they nervous about the quality of the setting?

BTW your situation is not unique I am going through it now.

He said they are not set up to operate that way, which I guess isn''t much of an answer but I can kind of understand what they are getting at. I just don''t think they want the liability of working with someone else''s setting. And, maybe more than that, I think their business model is more streamlined than that, they have a limited number of settings and can probably do the work reliably and quickly... with more custom work there''s probably too much involvement with me and too much of a chance I might not be happy with something. They would also have to take in such work without ever seeing the setting.