Please give me your thoughts...

[FrekeChild]

A friend commissioned a custom piece by a PS vendor (and I am not going to disclose who). The vendor didn't meet the timeline or design agreed upon.

Now my friend wants a refund and the vendor is saying that the only way they will refund is if they mail the ring to her and she has her stone (in a bezel) unset privately. The refusal to unset the stone has made her terrified that her diamond has been damaged but I don't know enough about that possibility with diamonds.

First, is it normal to not offer a refund to a customer unless you force them to take possession, even though they know from pictures that the design is incorrect and that they are not happy with it?

Second, whose responsibility is un-setting the stone?

 

[Gypsy]

1. I have never heard of anyone requiring a customer to accept shipment on something that doesn't meet the custom order requirements. If it was in the wrong metal--rose gold instead of platinum for example-- would they force her to accept it and send it back? Of course not! Something is strange here. When I had my ring custom made by Ocean (first one) I had it sent to Neil Beaty for appraisal instead of to me directly. He refused it for me because it was VERY clearly not what I had commissioned for. She didn't force me to "take possession," Neil just sent me pics to confirm and we sent the ring back to her. Will the vendor agree to send it to an appraiser maybe, instead of to her? I still think its silly mind you. If it's not what she ordered then its not what she ordered.

2. Details are sparse, but... it sounds like this is a 'breach of contract' issue, not a return or a 'changed my mind.' In breach of contract you usually expect to be made reasonably whole. That means to me: a refund and the stone back-- in its original condition (unset). If the vendor originally set the stone in the bezel, and they didn't meet the specifications of the custom work agreed on, then I would personally expect them to unset it as well. Does she have insurance on the stone?

 

[FrekeChild]

Gypsy, he's refusing to send the ring to anyone but her. I think he's hoping that she's going to love it anyway and want to keep it.

As for number 2, I know. I'm trying to be discreet because it seems like a very sensitive situation at the moment. As far as insurance, I'm not sure.

I've never dealt with this situation before, so I'm kind of in the dark, but I'm just sick for her, she was supposed to be engaged weeks ago...

 

[Circe]

I agree with Gypsy 100%. The only other reason that I can think of for them to refuse to unset the stone is that, to get a bezel-set stone out intact either requires completely destroying the setting, or it's a time-consuming process. Perhaps they don't want to invest the time, and want it to be on her dime? If so, tough for them, because there's absolutely no reason for her to be put to the trouble: it's insult to injury. I think she should ask to be escalated to talk to somebody higher in the company with more authority ....

 

[princesss]

I agree with Gypsy 100%. The only other reason that I can think of for them to refuse to unset the stone is that, to get a bezel-set stone out intact either requires completely destroying the setting, or it's a time-consuming process. Perhaps they don't want to invest the time, and want it to be on her dime? If so, tough for them, because there's absolutely no reason for her to be put to the trouble: it's insult to injury. I think she should ask to be escalated to talk to somebody higher in the company with more authority ....

Agreed. Take it up the ladder until you get to the owner of the company if you have to. This just sounds like bad business, and I'd imagine any business owner would want to know if their customer was getting such bad service. Even if this ring doesn't work out, handling a situation like this well would at least be a step towards salvaging the relationship.

 

[Niel]

Oh this is terrible to hear. Yes always escalate a call ( respectfully sense they are just trying to do there job in the parameters of there department) get to someone who can help and without being outright rude or angry she needs to express specific ways the contract agreement was not met and her exact expectations from the company on how she wants things resolved..

 

[FrekeChild]

I agree with Gypsy 100%. The only other reason that I can think of for them to refuse to unset the stone is that, to get a bezel-set stone out intact either requires completely destroying the setting, or it's a time-consuming process. Perhaps they don't want to invest the time, and want it to be on her dime? If so, tough for them, because there's absolutely no reason for her to be put to the trouble: it's insult to injury. I think she should ask to be escalated to talk to somebody higher in the company with more authority ....

It could be that they don't want to invest the time, but since it's a bezel, it's going to be destroyed, no matter what.

She's been dealing directly with the owner of the company, to my knowledge. And he's changed what he's said multiple times - so many times that I can't keep what he's said straight. At one point he said that he'd have his bench take the stone out and she'd have it in hand this week, but now he's holding steady that it's company policy that a customer be required to take possession first before processing the "return". I'm with Gypsy in that I think it's a breach of contract and from what I can tell, the contract was never completed, so there is no "return" that needs to be processed.

He's also telling her it'll be 2 weeks before the refund gets to her. She has chosen a completely different setting because this setting has been completely ruined for her after this experience.

 

[FrekeChild]

I agree with Gypsy 100%. The only other reason that I can think of for them to refuse to unset the stone is that, to get a bezel-set stone out intact either requires completely destroying the setting, or it's a time-consuming process. Perhaps they don't want to invest the time, and want it to be on her dime? If so, tough for them, because there's absolutely no reason for her to be put to the trouble: it's insult to injury. I think she should ask to be escalated to talk to somebody higher in the company with more authority ....

Agreed. Take it up the ladder until you get to the owner of the company if you have to. This just sounds like bad business, and I'd imagine any business owner would want to know if their customer was getting such bad service. Even if this ring doesn't work out, handling a situation like this well would at least be a step towards salvaging the relationship.

I think that the relationship is a bit past salvaging at this point, since it has been the owner who has been putting her through this, unfortunately.

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy, he's refusing to send the ring to anyone but her. I think he's hoping that she's going to love it anyway and want to keep it.

As for number 2, I know. I'm trying to be discreet because it seems like a very sensitive situation at the moment. As far as insurance, I'm not sure.

I've never dealt with this situation before, so I'm kind of in the dark, but I'm just sick for her, she was supposed to be engaged weeks ago...

Okay so...just to clarify.

1. Vendor is refusing refund unless she HERSELF takes possession. Makes no sense.
2. Her engagement is pending this fiasco?

So here's a question. Have you seen the pics and can you tell us... is it a nice ring, just not what she ordered? Or is it a hot mess of bad workmanship and design flaws?

Not that my answer changes, mind you. I still think if it doesn't mean the specifications it is a breach of contract and she should get a refund and an unset stone if that's what she prefers.

But if it was someone who thinks they know better than the customer what 'design is' because they are an 'artiste' (not going to name names), then this would still be screwy but well... unsurprising as they can be temperamental or difficult to work with.

I referred a friend of mine to Steven and he slightly altered the design on the ring he made for her. It was stunning but not what she had specified. he ASKED (not required) that she see it in person and if she didn't like it then he would give her a full refund because he thought that the ring was lovely and because design change made sense n as it gave the design definition it wouldn't have had if he had executed it as she asked. She's kept it and loves it.

BUT-- Steven only asked for her to give it a chance. Didn't require it, and would have unset and given her a full refund if she'd said no. He didn't make the refund contingent on her seeing the ring in person.

And the ring is beautiful and perfect in manufacturing. And it was one tweak.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

When I had a bezel pendant made one time, I asked for inside-only milgrain. When I saw the glamour pics, I could see that it had full milgrain. They insisted that I look at it before deciding to have it redone. That turned out to be wise because I DID like it that way. So in a way, I can see why the vendor wants her to see it first. But if she has already chosen a totally different design, are you sure part of this isn't her changing her mind about what she wants? What exactly did they change from the orginal order?

 

[FrekeChild]

Gypsy, he's refusing to send the ring to anyone but her. I think he's hoping that she's going to love it anyway and want to keep it.

As for number 2, I know. I'm trying to be discreet because it seems like a very sensitive situation at the moment. As far as insurance, I'm not sure.

I've never dealt with this situation before, so I'm kind of in the dark, but I'm just sick for her, she was supposed to be engaged weeks ago...

Okay so...just to clarify.

1. Vendor is refusing refund unless she HERSELF takes possession. Makes no sense.
2. Her engagement is pending this fiasco?

So here's a question. Have you seen the pics and can you tell us... is it a nice ring, just not what she ordered? Or is it a hot mess of bad workmanship and design flaws?

Not that my answer changes, mind you. I still think if it doesn't mean the specifications it is a breach of contract and she should get a refund and an unset stone if that's what she prefers.

But if it was someone who thinks they know better than the customer what 'design is' because they are an 'artiste' (not going to name names), then this would still be screwy but well... unsurprising as they can be temperamental or difficult to work with.

I referred a friend of mine to Steven and he slightly altered the design on the ring he made for her. It was stunning but not what she had specified. he ASKED (not required) that she see it in person and if she didn't like it then he would give her a full refund because he thought that the ring was lovely and because design change made sense n as it gave the design definition it wouldn't have had if he had executed it as she asked. She's kept it and loves it.

BUT-- Steven only asked for her to give it a chance. Didn't require it, and would have unset and given her a full refund if she'd said no. He didn't make the refund contingent on her seeing the ring in person.

And the ring is beautiful and perfect in manufacturing. And it was one tweak.

1. Agreed
2. Yes. He was originally planning on proposing weeks ago.

The pictures show a ring that's full of problems. The bezel is roughly the same width of the diamond, and she wanted it to be delicate - it reminds me of a spaceship with how large it is, and her diamond is NOT huge. The finishing looks terrible. The diamond is not set flat and straight and actually looks slightly twisted in the setting - nothing matches up the way it should. Not to mention the terrible bezel work-the metal directly next to the diamond is a mess.

This ring is NOT perfect or even nice in manufacturing and the owner even acknowledged that there are issues with it.

But yet, he insists that she take possession of it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, that changes what I said. I would want my diamond returned by them.

 

[FrekeChild]

When I had a bezel pendant made one time, I asked for inside-only milgrain. When I saw the glamour pics, I could see that it had full milgrain. They insisted that I look at it before deciding to have it redone. That turned out to be wise because I DID like it that way. So in a way, I can see why the vendor wants her to see it first. But if she has already chosen a totally different design, are you sure part of this isn't her changing her mind about what she wants? What exactly did they change from the orginal order?

This experience with this vendor ruined that specific setting idea for her. She doesn't want a bezel anymore because she doesn't want to be reminded of this experience with this vendor. One week ago today was when she originally saw it, and at that point she was considering having the same setting concept made, but by a different vendor. In the week that has passed, she has become so distressed that she just wants nothing to do with the design.

I really really wish it was a design tweak, but excellent execution. That would be easier to stomach.

 

[FrekeChild]

Okay, that changes what I said. I would want my diamond returned by them.

And you would expect it unset, right?

 

[Mico]

This sounds horrible

If I were doing custom work and the vendor did not execute the design properly (to the extent that you have described), I would want my diamond back. It sounds like the vendor is being incredibly unreasonable. I don't understand why they would expect a customer would need to RECEIVE an unsatisfactory product, and expect THEM to tie up the loose ends. It doesn't make any sense. In fact, it sounds a little fishy. I would steer clear of any vendor who makes contingencies such as this, it would leave me unsettled with their work ethic.

Was this a PS vendor? I hope not, I don't think our vendors act like this. They usually go out of their way to keep their customers happy.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay so...

Ring is a hot mess. And badly manufactured (that rules out our 'artiste vendors' to give them credit all are too proud/ethical to force a badly manufactured metalwork on a customer).
Vendor admits it has issues.
Still thinks she'll love it when she sees it and is forcing her to take possession.

Yeah. Not okay.

And this is a PS vendor? Really?

 

[tyty333]

Has she threatened him or accused him of anything...like possibly damaging her diamond? Could that be the reason he does not
want to touch her stone again? He does not want to get blamed for anything?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, that changes what I said. I would want my diamond returned by them.

And you would expect it unset, right?

ABSOLUTELY!!!! They need to unset and return to her immediately!

 

[madelise]

This experience with this vendor ruined that specific setting idea for her. She doesn't want a bezel anymore because she doesn't want to be reminded of this experience with this vendor. One week ago today was when she originally saw it, and at that point she was considering having the same setting concept made, but by a different vendor. In the week that has passed, she has become so distressed that she just wants nothing to do with the design.

This makes me so upset to hear. I know how emotionally-tied the choosing, designing and making of an engagement ring is.. and to hear that her dream ring is so botched that she doesn't even want the same concept made by another vendor makes my heart so sad for her.

Why won't he just unset the diamond for her? I agree that the vendor refusing to do it sounds very sketchy to me… Like he *knows* something is going on that he needs to hide.. Otherwise, why not unset it?

Is he just banking on her being emotional when she sees it, and just excited to have a ring for her engagement and ignore the hack job of a setting? That's very insulting.

 

[missydebby]

Hi guys! Long time no see... actually I just lurk nowadays : )

I have a potentially dumb question... Why would said vendor have her take out the diamond and not his bench? I don't get it. I mean, doesn't it seem sorta nefarious? I might be watching too many tv shows, but why would a vendor do that except to potentially cover up a messed up stone?

 

[Gypsy]

Has she threatened him or accused him of anything...like possibly damaging her diamond? Could that be the reason he does not
want to touch her stone again? He does not want to get blamed for anything?

Even if she did. Why refuse to send it to an appraiser? It protects both of them.

If the vendor is refusing to send it to an appraiser that raises flags for me. ALL the vendors I've worked with have sent items to Neil when I've asked (and I ask regularly), even before I see it.

 

[FrekeChild]

Okay so...

Ring is a hot mess. And badly manufactured (that rules out our 'artiste vendors' to give them credit all are too proud/ethical to force a badly manufactured metalwork on a customer).
Vendor admits it has issues.
Still thinks she'll love it when she sees it and is forcing her to take possession.

Yeah. Not okay.

And this is a PS vendor? Really?

Yes, yes and yes.

 

[FrekeChild]

Has she threatened him or accused him of anything...like possibly damaging her diamond? Could that be the reason he does not
want to touch her stone again? He does not want to get blamed for anything?

No. I think she mentioned the possibility because he is so adamant that he will NOT have his bench remove her diamond.

 

[FrekeChild]

Okay, that changes what I said. I would want my diamond returned by them.

And you would expect it unset, right?

ABSOLUTELY!!!! They need to unset and return to her immediately!

This is what happened to me recently, I got a prompt refund and diamonds sent back to me unset immediately.

I do not understand why he refuses to have his bench remove the stone?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, at some point the vendor needs to be revealed, because it casts doubts on a lot of vendors who are not to blame.

He had it set and he needs to have it removed! This is totally unacceptable. Period.

 

[FrekeChild]

This experience with this vendor ruined that specific setting idea for her. She doesn't want a bezel anymore because she doesn't want to be reminded of this experience with this vendor. One week ago today was when she originally saw it, and at that point she was considering having the same setting concept made, but by a different vendor. In the week that has passed, she has become so distressed that she just wants nothing to do with the design.

This makes me so upset to hear. I know how emotionally-tied the choosing, designing and making of an engagement ring is.. and to hear that her dream ring is so botched that she doesn't even want the same concept made by another vendor makes my heart so sad for her.

Why won't he just unset the diamond for her? I agree that the vendor refusing to do it sounds very sketchy to me… Like he *knows* something is going on that he needs to hide.. Otherwise, why not unset it?

Is he just banking on her being emotional when she sees it, and just excited to have a ring for her engagement and ignore the hack job of a setting? That's very insulting.

Yeah, it really is so ridiculously sad. She's not sleeping at night and totally stressed out about this for multiple reasons.

I think he's hoping that she's going to see it and love it. After all she's been through for the past week, I can say that THAT will NOT happen.

 

[Nyc2chigal]

Agreed! Who is this vendor???

 

[Mico]

Well, at some point the vendor needs to be revealed, because it casts doubts on a lot of vendors who are not to blame.

He had it set and he needs to have it removed! This is totally unacceptable. Period.

Agreed

 

[FrekeChild]

Hi guys! Long time no see... actually I just lurk nowadays : )

I have a potentially dumb question... Why would said vendor have her take out the diamond and not his bench? I don't get it. I mean, doesn't it seem sorta nefarious? I might be watching too many tv shows, but why would a vendor do that except to potentially cover up a messed up stone?

Good question Debz! Your guess is as good as mine, but it sounds kind of shady, don't you think?

 

[FrekeChild]

Has she threatened him or accused him of anything...like possibly damaging her diamond? Could that be the reason he does not
want to touch her stone again? He does not want to get blamed for anything?

Even if she did. Why refuse to send it to an appraiser? It protects both of them.

If the vendor is refusing to send it to an appraiser that raises flags for me. ALL the vendors I've worked with have sent items to Neil when I've asked (and I ask regularly), even before I see it.

The last thing that happened is she told him to not send it to her. He sent it anyway, against her request, accompanied by an email that gives the impression that he's washing his hands of the situation and he no longer wants to waste any more of his time responding to her, and would prefer to waste money shipping the ring to her.