Pick one princess cut.

[Ianmac]

Need help deciding between these two Princess cuts.
Diamond 1
Cut Ideal
Carat 0.82
Color F
Clarity SI2
Cert GIA
Depth 72.2
Table 70
Polish GOOD
Symettry GOOD
Flourescence NONE
Face1 5.29
Face2 5.14
Depth 3.71
Girdle VERY THIN
Girdle SLIGHTLY THICK
Price $2,442.00

Diamond 2
Cut Ideal
Carat 0.82
Color F
Clarity SI2
Cert GIA
Depth 74.5
Table 70
Polish EXCELLENT
Symettry VERY GOOD
Flourescence NONE
Face1 5.14
Face2 4.99
Depth 3.72
Girdle SLIGHTLY THICK
Girdle THICK
Price $2,617.00

Is it worth another $200 for a Better polish and symmetry?
or should I save the 200 and get the diamond with the larger face?

 

[WinkHPD]

Ideal by whose standards? If AGS then the polish and symmetry would already both be graded Ideal.

If by GIA then they do not assign ideal to princess cuts unless they just started.

Where are you getting the term ideal from?

Wink

 

[Ianmac]

Dirtcheapdiamonds.com

 

[headlight]

Wink knows his stuff, so I would definitely listen to what he has posted.

I like the fact that you are looking at SI2, which I do have to mention that not ALL EGL SI2 stones have visible inclusions because I have one (round 3.29 ct) and you cannot see anything to the naked eye.

My question to you is why are you looking at F color stones? I think you could go down to GIA or AGS H color and get a larger stone but still not have it look "tinted". I also have an emerald/generic asscher in a .86 ct that is a GIA H set in platinum and it looks dead on white/colorless, and with the step cuts they do not hide anything, whereas with a princess you have the faceting to mask some "imperfections".

Also, you initially posted that your budget was around $4k, but now you are looking at $2500. I think you should stick with your budget. The E-ring purchase is not a place to "try to get a deal" or "bargain shop" or "try to get off easy". Also, when you said that the ring wasn't important to your girl, but rather the love, I don't think you understand women in this regard! No offense, my husband of almost 17 years was just like you but he has learned (the hard way!) over the years. Yes, the love and you are priceless, but trust me when I say that the e-ring IS clearly, definitively, positively IMPORTANT. Also, the closer you are to the magical 1 carat mark is very significant and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

[Ianmac]

I think you are confusing my budgets... the budget for the STONE is 2500
that leaves me with 1500 for the platinum setting with side baguettes.
Nothing has changed in that regard.

I found a 1 carat large stone this morning, but it was met with
"I dont love that diamond" So I left it alone, it was gone 10 min later.

Trust me... I would love to find an H color in a 1 carat in my budget but everyone says that isnt possible!
This is getting frustrating... Everyone shoots down everything I find, but I dont see anyone offering any
REAL alternatives...


Matt

 

[Ianmac]

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD00387107&filter_id=0

I like this one... Its bigger in the face
but I am paying for VS2 clarity.

If I could find a Very good cut
Princess 1.0carat
H color
SI2
for around $2500 I would be the happiest man on earth

 

[belle]

do you have idealscope images on those stones?

 

[Ianmac]

No, they want 50.00 each to run idealscopes on them.

Date: 3/2/2006 4:22:43 PM
Author: belle
do you have idealscope images on those stones?

 

[ChooChoo]

Do yourself a favor and spend less on the setting and more on the center stone. Union Diamond, for example, has a white gold baguette setting for $399

That would leave you with $3600 for the center stone, and you could find something much nicer.

 

[headlight]

Date: 3/2/2006 4:17:21 PM
Author: Ianmac
I think you are confusing my budgets... the budget for the STONE is 2500
that leaves me with 1500 for the platinum setting with side baguettes.
Nothing has changed in that regard.

I found a 1 carat large stone this morning, but it was met with
''I dont love that diamond'' So I left it alone, it was gone 10 min later.

Trust me... I would love to find an H color in a 1 carat in my budget but everyone says that isnt possible!
This is getting frustrating... Everyone shoots down everything I find, but I dont see anyone offering any
REAL alternatives...


Matt

First off, I think if you have a $4k budget for the whole ring complete, then you might not want to spend almost 38% of the budget on the mounting. I think that going with white gold is a good option -- have you and your girlfriend discussed the platinum vs. white gold issue? Platinum is very expensive, unfortunately. If I were to go w/ white gold, I would try to keep it at 18kt which I think is much nicer than going with 14kt. Whenever you see high priced designer jewelry done in gold or with gold accents, they always use 18kt. Also, I own a lot of jewelry, and I can tell you that my pieces that are in 18kt white gold do not get that "yellowing" effect that the 14kt white gold gets -- to me, 18kt white definitely seems to keep its'' "white" appearance similar to platinum, thus the only discernable different being the weight as platinum is heavier.

As for alternatives, I actually did give you two very nice ones, albeit they are not princess cuts, but rather emerald or radiant. That is why I asked if you were certain she is dead set on princess cuts. Has she tried them on in the store? Often, we "think" we know what cut we like, and then we try on in the store and realize it looks horrible on our hand or it just doesn''t do it for us in person.

There are both GIA and EGL Princess stones in H color, SI 1/2 clarity within your budget, leaving you money left over for a platinum setting (if you go w/ EGL) and a white gold setting (for a GIA stone) on the pricescope index, so they are out there. Honestly, I don''t think you should count EGL out of the game, but that is my opinion. I went w/ EGL for my big rock I finally got, H color, SI2 clarity, 3.29 ct round, and people can balk at EGL and at SI2, etc., but bottom line is I have a gorgeous huge ring on my finger that faces up colorless and eyeclean. For me, I could care less about the certificate for my purposes. No one sees the certificate, all they see is the ring on your girls'' hand. I also don''t think that for your budget you need to get yourself wrapped up in specs and ideal this and that, etc. What does all that stuff matter if it means you have compromised so much size no one can see all that good stuff in the stone because it is so small???

There IS a middle ground where you can get a nice size in a stone that looks beautiful to the gazer''s eye, without having to get the ultra-best scientific cut there is and without having to present your girl with a piece of junk. I REALLY think it is about what your EYE sees, and not a bunch of numbers on a piece of paper. That is why I would want to see the stones in person. If you don''t want to pay to have stones sent out, etc., then have you considered working with someone in your area?

 

[BrightSpot]

Date: 3/2/2006 4:32:36 PM
Author: ChooChoo
Do yourself a favor and spend less on the setting and more on the center stone. Union Diamond, for example, has a white gold baguette setting for $399

That would leave you with $3600 for the center stone, and you could find something much nicer.

Great find, ChooChoo! This setting looks great & would give you more money for the center stone!

 

[Ianmac]

Everytime I go with an EGL cert people get upset
Its not a true grade...

 

[Small]

I know this process is leaving you very frustrated...I can tell by your posts. So take a big deep breath and try to make this a fun process instead of a stressful one.
I will say that I am currently working with Wink (just bought my stone today) and he does know his stuff! Just be patient. It took me a couple of months of looking to find exactly what I was looking for.
I dont know a whole lot about princess cuts. SI2 in general is a great buy for the money when you can find it eye clean. Is it imperative that she have platinum? Would she be happy with a 1ct but in white gold with the same side baguettes? I dont think anyone here is trying to make your life more difficult but we know you are wanting as close to 1ct and a good stone at that so in doing so maybe compromising on the platinum would be an option so you could get a better and bigger stone. Just some friendly suggestions.
As a side note, I also own an SI2 D graded from EGL. While EGL is totally frowned upon I have had mine looked at by several GIA grads and NEVER tell them who the cert is from. I''ve gotten great reviews on my diamond which is totally eye clean. Now I''m not telling you to go out and buy one but I will say that you should try to pick a vendor that you trust to work with and tell them your goals. You definitely want to get the best for your money so don''t rule everything out...ultimately Matt YOU have to be happy with the purchase and no matter what our opinion is if it looks good to you and the vendor is honest and gives you a good opinion then listen to what you think is best. Frustrating yourself and running numbers to death is only going to get you down on this whole experience.
I wish you alot of luck! Let us know what your choice ends up being.

 

[headlight]

Date: 3/2/2006 5:04:14 PM
Author: Ianmac
Everytime I go with an EGL cert people get upset
Its not a true grade...

They do not have the consistent reputation that GIA or AGS has. Is this EGL-USA or a foreign country EGL? The USA EGL does have a rep to be more on par with GIA. To some people it really matters to have a GIA certificate on their stone. I can tell you that my EGL Israel H color is the SAME as my GIA H color stone. Sure, I think that if money is no object then GIA is something to strive for. Hell, I''d never say, "Oh, but I don''t WANT the GIA stone!!!" But, you are working with a budget here and you will need to make some compromises to get a stone that is overall beautiful, sparkling, colorless in appearance and of enough carat weight to please/satisfy your girl. That is why I said you might want to consider the EGL stones. AND, that is why you need to see in person the difference. In person, you might compare a GIA stone to an EGL and say, "Oh, now I see what they were talking about!". Or, you might say, "I don''t see a darn difference -- I''m going to go w/ EGL and get my girl a 1 carat diamond in a plat setting"!!!
Only YOU can make that determination. Not myself nor anyone else can do it for you because you are the purchaser/giver of the ring and she is the recipient and the one who will be wearing it. We are all just trying to throw out options and things to consider for you, based on our experiences and what is important to each one of us, so you can give all these elements thought and go with what BEST suits YOU!

Also, I did want to mention that the "generic" baguette mountings posted here are shown with four-prong "Tiffany-esque" type mountings, which are an option for round stones -- for a square stone you want a basket setting, so be sure to ask for that.

 

[headlight]

Date: 3/2/2006 5:12:04 PM
Author: Small
I know this process is leaving you very frustrated...I can tell by your posts. So take a big deep breath and try to make this a fun process instead of a stressful one.
I will say that I am currently working with Wink (just bought my stone today) and he does know his stuff! Just be patient. It took me a couple of months of looking to find exactly what I was looking for.
I dont know a whole lot about princess cuts. SI2 in general is a great buy for the money when you can find it eye clean. Is it imperative that she have platinum? Would she be happy with a 1ct but in white gold with the same side baguettes? I dont think anyone here is trying to make your life more difficult but we know you are wanting as close to 1ct and a good stone at that so in doing so maybe compromising on the platinum would be an option so you could get a better and bigger stone. Just some friendly suggestions.
As a side note, I also own an SI2 D graded from EGL. While EGL is totally frowned upon I have had mine looked at by several GIA grads and NEVER tell them who the cert is from. I''ve gotten great reviews on my diamond which is totally eye clean. Now I''m not telling you to go out and buy one but I will say that you should try to pick a vendor that you trust to work with and tell them your goals. You definitely want to get the best for your money so don''t rule everything out...ultimately Matt YOU have to be happy with the purchase and no matter what our opinion is if it looks good to you and the vendor is honest and gives you a good opinion then listen to what you think is best. Frustrating yourself and running numbers to death is only going to get you down on this whole experience.
I wish you alot of luck! Let us know what your choice ends up being.

SO well said!!!

 

[belle]

Date: 3/2/2006 4:24:08 PM
Author: Ianmac
No, they want 50.00 each to run idealscopes on them.

Date: 3/2/2006 4:22:43 PM
Author: belle
do you have idealscope images on those stones?

youch. they must be virtual stones and that is the charge to bring them in. (?)
did you look at any of the signature series stones?

 

[Ianmac]

Date: 3/2/2006 5:41:12 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/2/2006 4:24:08 PM
Author: Ianmac
No, they want 50.00 each to run idealscopes on them.

Date: 3/2/2006 4:22:43 PM
Author: belle
do you have idealscope images on those stones?

youch. they must be virtual stones and that is the charge to bring them in. (?)
did you look at any of the signature series stones?

Your right they are virual stones... I cant afford their signature series... Mark just called from engagement rings... I told him I was about to lose my mind... he is working on something by monday.

Thank you all for your help and support... Your right, I am getting frustrated.
I am willing to comprimise platinum and go with white gold, but it seems most vendors say thats not
going to make more than a 2-300 dollar difference.

Matt

 

[Ianmac]

So I really liked this one earlier:
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=4355967

But the guy at DCD kept trying to talk me out of it because it wasnt "eye clean"
How could he know that when they are viruta stones???

Its over 1 carat and within my budget the only problem is the egl cert.

 

[Mara]

first, did you completely nix my DBL stone that i found, the 1c J VS2? i think that'd be a sweet deal for what you want, it's 1c, nicely shaped, nice proportions and GIA cert. the only possible downer is the J but i personally like J stones, even in a princess.

BUT that said...of course my preference is clear there, here's the deal.

someone will always say one of the following:

i dont like an J/K/whatever color in a princess cut.
i don't like an EGL cert.
i don't like an SI2 because they are rarely eye clean.
i don't love that diamond.
i don't like v-thin or v-thick girdles.

what you need to do is learn to weed things out. are you really going to wait for a stone that EVERYONE on here loves? i mean come on you have like 30 people giving you advice. you need to start figuring out what your priorities are.

if it is to get a well-cut sparkly princess cut stone as close to 1c for $2500 then think about it. i personally don't love EGL certs but you MAY have to consider one or two because lets face it, they are just alot cheaper than GIA or AGS. you MAY need to consider an I or J in a princess cut stone even though someone else would not. you MAY need to consider an SI2 in a stone to get the largest size and maybe not go down to J.

bottom line is that you need to start figuring out what your comfort levels are with this whole process. don't let people (myself included) drill into you with what our own preferences are. we totally do it on here, it's just a product of everyone's own personal experience. but you have to start weeding through what people are saying and start trusting your vendors as well.

if this is worth anything, what i would do in your actual situation is this: keep in mind i've been on these board for 3+ years and bought more than a few diamonds in my time here.

i would stop posting for a few days. go to WF, go to GOG, go to Mark at ERD, go to Josh at DCD, and go to Wink as well. tell them this is what i want. i've got $2500 to spend (by the way i agree that spending that on a stone and 1500 on a setting is just silly) on a stone, i want a well-cut princess as close as 1c to get and my comfort levels with color and clarity are XYZ. i'd like an AGS or GIA graded stone but am willing to consider an EGL USA stone if you feel as though it could be a good bet.

have them see what they can find/what they have in inventory. in this kind of situation i can tell that you don't really want to get the full on 2 month education you should to purchase, you just want a bunch of people on here to help you find a nice stone. it'd be easier if it was a round. a princess is harder. SO i would personally put it into the hands of the experts, the vendors. have them find you what they think is nice. it doesn't mean you have to buy it right away, but have them pull what THEY think you'd like. some of these guys find GREAT stones for people. once they have their offerings, figure out who you want to work with. who has been the most attentive, who seems best priced, customer service levels etc. then hopefully you will have 2-3 stones to choose from and you can decide if you want to pay the $$ to call them in. at that point you can ask PS'ers for advice and go 'here are my top contenders'..and use the PS consumer base here to help you get it down to 1-2 to call in. and you will have to pay to call them in, so either get used to that idea OR only work with vendors who have in-house stones (WF, GOG, etc) but they may be more expensive.

seriously right now you are just throwing all these lines out and expecting people here to find you a stone and you don't seem to be realizing that we all have our own personal preferences which will color what we find for you. in the end you need to make the decision as to what your priorities are and act accordingly. no one will just magically find you the perfect princess stone.

but anyway i would pull back and let the vendors do some work for you. then figure out who you want to work with. then figure out which stones seem the best (using their advice and these guys won't steer you wrong, all of the above vendors have tons of fans on here), then ask PS for help, then call in the final 1-2 stones for more info and idealscopes.

oh and expect that this whole process could take up to a month if not longer. good luck!

 

[Mara]

Date: 3/2/2006 6:06:51 PM
Author: Ianmac
So I really liked this one earlier:
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=4355967

But the guy at DCD kept trying to talk me out of it because it wasnt ''eye clean''
How could he know that when they are viruta stones???

Its over 1 carat and within my budget the only problem is the egl cert.

they can ask whoever owns the stone if it''s eye clean and if they said no, they would tell you that. if it''s important to you to not see boogers in the stone, pass on it.

again this is a great example of maybe you should be trusting your vendor and not second-guessing them.

 

[Rhapsody]

I know you are set on getting as close to 1 ct size as you can and many people have suggested getting a cheaper setting to get a bigger stone. I would just make sure that your girlfriend would be ok with that, if she wanted a particular style setting.

Our budget was also 4k, and I originally was looking for a 3/4 ct stone but when I realized I couldn't get both the stone size and setting I wanted in our budget I decided to go with a 1/2 ct stone instead. I actally spent over half our budget on the setting. Not a popular choice here but the setting was very important to me. The difference in stone size (about 0.5mm) was easily visible, but the larger stone in a plainer setting didn't have the visual impact as the smaller stone in the setting I chose.

Everyone here gets really excited and wants everyone to have the best possibel diamond. That said, you don't have to buy into it all.

I think this stone from blue nile might be promising, it has a light performance score of 1, which should make for a fantastically sparkly stone, it has good color and clarity (H, VS1) and with the platinum setting your total comes to 3705.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD00900856&filter_id=0

 

[solange]

Date: 3/2/2006 6:06:51 PM
Author: Ianmac
So I really liked this one earlier:
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=4355967

But the guy at DCD kept trying to talk me out of it because it wasnt ''eye clean''
How could he know that when they are viruta stones???

Its over 1 carat and within my budget the only problem is the egl cert.

He was being honest with you. If you said you wanted an eye clean stone, no doubt he asked the dealer to look at it. I had simillar experiences when I was looking for a stone.
There is no advantage to calling in a stone that will almost certainly come back. I am sure that if you re patient, you will find the perfect stone.

 

[coda72]

Date: 3/2/2006 6:06:51 PM
Author: Ianmac
So I really liked this one earlier:
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=4355967

But the guy at DCD kept trying to talk me out of it because it wasnt ''eye clean''
How could he know that when they are viruta stones???

Its over 1 carat and within my budget the only problem is the egl cert.

If you really like this stone, call it in and have DCD look at it for you and take pictures for you. I believe that they will also send it to the appraiser of your choice before you pay for the stone. Take a look at it yourself and decide. You said eyeclean wasn''t that important to you, so maybe it won''t matter that it''s not eyeclean. Maybe the inclusion isn''t that noticeable. It is an EGL report, but with such a high colored stone, it probably doesn''t matter. The lowest the color probably will be is G, and that''s still pretty darn white.

I do have to say, sometimes when people post stones on here, other people see these stones and jump on them first. It has happened before to a few people. I''m not trying to hurry you, but if you like this stone, I would have them put it on hold for you. You can always take it off hold if you decide against it.

 

[jetmal]

Ian,

I noticed you said your gf wants a square diamond....that one that you like from DCD looks pretty rectangular to me....just to let you know....
goodluck!

 

[Ianmac]

Yep... stone is gone today!
Anyways... by square, what I should have said is NOT ROUND.

 

[february2003bride]

I actually would go with the setting she wants even if it is a chunk of your budget. How many times have we read that someone didn''t like their e-ring (And it was usually the setting)? I would go with the setting she wants and a smaller quality, well cut stone with a jeweler that allows for upgrades, such as WhiteFlash.

I would also totally trust WF and their choices of diamonds if you decide to work with them. I''ve read posts where they''ve brought diamonds in for customers and nixed the diamond because it wasn''t eye clean, didn''t have that fire or the shape was off too much, etc. They can also set the stone for you and the setting she wants is fairly common, I can''t imagine that they don''t have it.

However, if you and your GF don''t believe in upgrades then something WILL have to give. Either go for a simple setting in 18K WG, or go with a smaller stone in the setting she wants, or see if you can increase your budget. If you want to go with an EGL stone, there''s nothing wrong with that, many people have EGL stones a love them. But if you go that route, I would strongly advise an independant appriasal.

Also, try www.signedpieces.com. They have some lovely princess cut e-rings!

Good luck!
Carrie

 

[Small]

i would stop posting for a few days. go to WF, go to GOG, go to Mark at ERD, go to Josh at DCD, and go to Wink as well. tell them this is what i want. i''ve got $2500 to spend (by the way i agree that spending that on a stone and 1500 on a setting is just silly) on a stone, i want a well-cut princess as close as 1c to get and my comfort levels with color and clarity are XYZ. i''d like an AGS or GIA graded stone but am willing to consider an EGL USA stone if you feel as though it could be a good bet.

This is part of Mara''s response, and I think it''s great advice. Why not try and talk with multiple vendors until you find what you are looking for or at least a vendor that you are comfortable dealing with. I highly recommend Wink at Winfields. I''m currently purchasing my stone from him and he''s been amazing. He was honest about the stone from the beginning and when he got it he looked at it and told me again what he thought not to mention I had the IS, the gemstone report, and pictures to look at before and after he received the stone. Tell the vendors your budget, tell them your aspirations, and see who can make it happen. Tell them you won''t be opposed to EGL if that is how you feel. YOU definitely should keep all avenues open and explore the possibilities of all stones until you find the one that is right for you. Don''t settle just because everyone here is giving opinions...because it''s just that...OUR opinions. Ultimately you have to be happy with your purchase and if the cert doesn''t bother you so much then why make a big deal about who certs it. To some that''s a huge sticking point while to others it''s not a problem. If you are planning to upgrade someday then maybe EGL isn''t the way to go but if you think this is it for life then get what you want and persevere!