Paparadscha: need expert help

[Henrikas_B]

Good day,

I am looking for the Padparadscha Sapphire for an engagement ring. I have very little experience with precious stones, and my budged and time is rather limited (I have just one month [including delivery to the UK] and up to around 6000 USD). Given this, I do understand that this is going to be quite difficult. But I will give it a try, and I hope you guys will be able to help me.

This stone has a very important symbolic meaning for us. Thus, while aesthetics (colour, cut, etc.) are, of course, important - I would go for an average-looking, but real, authentic Sri Lankan Paparadscha.

This means that I would want a GIA certificate (or alike) on it with a statement on the country of origin as Sri Lanka and "Variety: Paparadscha Sapphire", and that I would be all right with an average cut and not the most-sought-after colours (of course, having a nice cut and colours would be brilliant, but with the budget I have I do not think this is realistic).

I am not sure about the size, but I believe it is far fetched to expect to find something nice above 2 ct. (though, less than 1 ct., perhaps, would be too small).

Would you think there is anything among these NSC stones worth of attention http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompan...0&carat_min=0.5&price_max=6000&price_min=3000 (I do understand that NSC does not have perfect reputation in this forum; but maybe there is something worth of attention within the parameters I have).

For example, this one http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/p-55993-oval-padparadscha-sapphire-pa2450/. It doesn't have a perfect cut, and the colours are weak; but it seems to have a "paparadschan" blend of orange and pink, it is unheated, and I could ask them to get the GIA certificate on it.

Also, what would you think about this list in the bluesapphirestones (https://www.bluesapphirestones.com/Gemstones/Padparadscha-Sapphire?sort=p.price&order=ASC) or this one in the jupitergem (http://jupitergem.com/gemstones/padparadscha-sapphire); though, until now, I haven't heard anything about these two companies.

If you have recently come across anything similar - I would appreciate if you could share the info with me. I would, of course, be happy to hear all of your suggestions (on how to search for Paparadschas, what to look for, what to be aware of, etc.).

 

[chrono]

One month is tight but since you are forgiving about colour, it might be doable. Unheated only? Does the $6K USD include the setting and tax? For coloured stones, mm size can vary greatly even if 2 stones are of the same 2 ct weight. One can be overly deep and face up like a 1 ct stone whilst another can be a shallow pancake and face up like a 3 ct stone. Is there a certain mm size you'd like to achieve?

I am not wholly against NSC; there are pros and cons with most companies and for those on a very tight time frame, NSC should be considered. Just note that NSC tends to be overpriced for the quality, over generous with their clarity and colour grading.

 

[chrono]

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/p-55993-oval-padparadscha-sapphire-pa2450/.
Yes, you need to make sure NSC will provide a GIA or AGL report proving origin, untreated and that it falls into the padparadscha category. It is windowed and due to the light colouration, it is likely for the window to still be present after it is set. It is too shallow to be tweaked to close the window. NSC runs sales from time to time, so it never hurts to make an offer.

Which stones are you interested in at BlueSapphireStones? Some are heated and some are from Madagascar. The return and refund policy seems reasonable but as I have not heard of the company nor worked with them before, I do not know how easy/difficult the process is. The same goes for JupiterGems except that the review period is a mere 7 days.

I know you aren't particular about cut, but the cut on most sapphires on both websites are deal breakers for me and I'm not even in the precision cut camp. If I am spending $6K on an e-ring, it should at least be decently cut.

 

[Linda W]

Chrono, NSC will provide GIA reports if you ask them. I did and received it.

 

[Niel]

You're requirements are very strict. Wouldn't ypu rather have a nice stone for a lifetime vs an ok stone within your very tight timeline?

 

[Henrikas_B]

Many thanks for your replies and suggestions.

Chrono: I would prefer unheated, but better heated pad than no pad at all. 6000 USD including tax, excluding setting (well, if it's a super offer, it can be somewhat more than 6k). I do not have any particular idea regarding size, but I believe it should be somewhere in between your two suggested variants (i.e., overly deep and a shallow pancake). NCS said they could provide a GIA report for me.

I looked into this at BlueSapphireStones: https://www.bluesapphirestones.com/...apphire/1.91ct-Unheated-Natural-Padparadscha-. It is more pink than orange (and I am fine with this). It has GIA certificate (though no comment on the origin - they said they could get one). Window, of course (but perhaps better cut that the NCS's gem above). I asked them to send me some additional pics and video showing reflection (I will post it here as soon as I get it).

Chrono, do you think any other of the NCS, BlueSapphireStones, or JupiterGems (within my price range) would be better than the two I selected above? I really appreciate your help!

Niel: I haven't lost hope to find something decent in the following four weeks; but, as I said, it has a specific symbolic meaning, and having average-looking pad is better than not having any pad at all.

I will keep on searching then and post here my finds. And I will, of course, be very willing to know your opinion on these.

 

[Niel]

Many thanks for your replies and suggestions.

Chrono: I would prefer unheated, but better heated pad than no pad at all. 6000 USD including tax, excluding setting (well, if it's a super offer, it can be somewhat more than 6k). I do not have any particular idea regarding size, but I believe it should be somewhere in between your two suggested variants (i.e., overly deep and a shallow pancake). NCS said they could provide a GIA report for me.

I looked into this at BlueSapphireStones: https://www.bluesapphirestones.com/...apphire/1.91ct-Unheated-Natural-Padparadscha-. It is more pink than orange (and I am fine with this). It has GIA certificate (though no comment on the origin - they said they could get one). Window, of course (but perhaps better cut that the NCS's gem above). I asked them to send me some additional pics and video showing reflection (I will post it here as soon as I get it).

Chrono, do you think any other of the NCS, BlueSapphireStones, or JupiterGems (within my price range) would be better than the two I selected above? I really appreciate your help!

Niel: I haven't lost hope to find something decent in the following four weeks; but, as I said, it has a specific symbolic meaning, and having average-looking pad is better than not having any pad at all.

I will keep on searching then and post here my finds. And I will, of course, be very willing to know your opinion on these.

Dont mistake what I said. In not saying you shouldn't have a pad. If for whatever reason you must have a Sri Lanka pad, then you should have it. But my point is along with meaning, a ring is also jewelry. So I would hope you could strike the right balance of both meaning AND beauty.

I just dont see why you have to shoehorn an ok stone into your plan just to meet a deadline. If you take your time, you could get everything you want in terms of meaning but also get a beautiful ring.

Or alternatively, propose with a loose stone and have her set it in the ring style she wants. That would keep the meaning, possibly the timeline, and open up your options.

I truly hope you find exactly what you want in exactly when you need it, but I hate the idea of forcing something just to meet a random (even if significant) deadline.

 

[Henrikas_B]

Niel: thanks for taking your time and clarifying this to me - I do see your point now. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough myself: I am looking for a loose stone. This was the original idea: to propose with a loose stone, and then design the ring together. I hope, as you just said, this indeed makes my task easier.

 

[Niel]

Niel: thanks for taking your time and clarifying this to me - I do see your point now. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough myself: I am looking for a loose stone. This was the original idea: to propose with a loose stone, and then design the ring together. I hope, as you just said, this indeed makes my task easier.

Ah ok. I misunderstood as well! I'll keep looking! Hopefully we can find you something soon.

 

[chrono]

Even trying to get a loose stone alone is a huge challenge for your time frame. I urge you to reconsider buying an e-ring with only a strong emphasis on its paper qualifications alone rather than a balance of both. There is almost no upgrading of coloured stones and I think most ladies would like a nice looking stone in addition to the sentiment behind it. The trade-off for such time pressure is to overpay for a subpar padparadscha.

 

[T L]

I don't think AGL uses the same criteria as GIA does for judging a padparadscha. For example, what might be a padparadscha to GIA, might not be to AGL. I would prefer an AGL over a GIA report for a padparadscha, just as I would for an alexandrite. These gems have too many nuances in color and you're paying for that above all.

 

[minousbijoux]

Here is one you might consider. I have been pretty dismissive of this seller due to the photographs - which I find hard to read for stone quality - but several others have bought from him and report back that his stones are nicer in hand than photographs and that they are well cut. This padparadscha has an AGL brief. It is on the shallow side and it is not clear it is Sri Lankan (it would have to be sent back to AGL for an origin report). He has had this for sale for a long time, so you might want to approach him and see if you can get him to further reduce the price.

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/one-time-price-reduction-was-8000-dollars-dot-00-now-7000-dollars-dot-00-2-dot-29-cts-magnificent-agl-report-padparascha-sapph

 

[Henrikas_B]

Chrono: I see your point. In worst case scenario - i.e., that I only find a terrible pad - I will, perhaps, propose without a stone/ring (which would obviously kill the romantic part of it). But if am lucky and find at least an average-looking pad, I and my lady should be all right. And here's were I need your judgment - to help me sort out what is terrible, average, and beautiful. I do understand that this may not look very sound from an experts' point of view, but I am in a situation that I am (I cannot postpone; and, as I said, proposing without a stone/ring would, in my current thinking, be the least desirable scenario).

TL: thanks for input.

minousbijoux: this one looks great to me - many thanks for sharing. I have send the seller a message.

 

[Henrikas_B]

Also: what do you think about the third from top over here: http://atggems.com/Photos_Sapphire1.htm?

 

[chrono]

The 1.39 ct oval certainly warrants an in-person examination.

 

[Marlow]

The 1.39 ct oval certainly warrants an in-person examination.

YES!

And wow!! I should sell some of my Sapphires now !!

 

[minousbijoux]

The 1.39 ct oval certainly warrants an in-person examination.

YES!

And wow!! I should sell some of my Sapphires now !!

Do it! And of course you will offer us a very special discounted price because we are ll friends.

 

[Niel]

Chrono: I see your point. In worst case scenario - i.e., that I only find a terrible pad - I will, perhaps, propose without a stone/ring (which would obviously kill the romantic part of it). But if am lucky and find at least an average-looking pad, I and my lady should be all right. And here's were I need your judgment - to help me sort out what is terrible, average, and beautiful. I do understand that this may not look very sound from an experts' point of view, but I am in a situation that I am (I cannot postpone; and, as I said, proposing without a stone/ring would, in my current thinking, be the least desirable scenario).

TL: thanks for input.

minousbijoux: this one looks great to me - many thanks for sharing. I have send the seller a message.

This kills me. Are those really the words you want to use when describing her ring? Or anything you're dropping this kind of money on.

I like the stone suggested right above, but is it acceptable if no origin is listed?

 

[chrono]

Niel,
It is painful for me too, that Henrikas is willing to spend a lot of money on a run of the mill commercial quality padparadscha as an engagement ring stone. I would want something as stunning as possible for my budget. There is no proof of origin on the lab report (listed as Sri Lankan) but I am sure that the vendor can have it resent for an origin report.

 

[Henrikas_B]

Niel: perhaps, these are not the best words to describe her gem/ring. I should say, perhaps, that I will do my best to find as good a gem as possible given my constrains; and it seems there is some luck already - you, and others are quite positive about the ATG's gem.

I have contacted the seller. The gem looks really good and is within the limits of my budget. But I am afraid it will be beyond my budget when the import taxes will be added. I am aware that ATG have very reasonable prices, but do you think there is a chance that they would reconsider the price?

Regarding the statement on the country origin: they claim that the stone was purchased in Sri Lanka from mines that do produce pads. Do you think, then, we can assume that the stone is indeed from Sri Lanka (my limited knowledge tells me that ATG is a very reputable vendor?).

I received some additional photos and videos of this pad from BlueSapphireStones : https://www.bluesapphirestones.com/...apphire/1.91ct-Unheated-Natural-Padparadscha- . Is it all right to upload such pictures and videos here? (I am not that well aware of the policies of this forum).

Also, I found this one at Africagems: http://www.africagems.com/oval-padparadscha-sapphire-g2k-92562689.html
They will shortly send me some additional photos and a video. They also say they could a GIA or AGL cert (in additional they now have 15% discount, until 25 may). What do you think?

 

[chrono]

Your clarification put my heart at ease.

ATG is actually quite pricey and pictures tend to be a bit better than the stone in person. I would make an offer and see where it leads. Perhaps an explanation about your situation might make him reconsider? No harm in asking and the worse he can say is "no". Insistence on the country of origin is up to you. If it is extremely important to you, I would not make any presumptions and have it sent to GIA. There are many Thai blue sapphires sold as of African origin. It is not that the vendor is deceptive but his source(s) may not always be correct.

It is fine to upload pictures and videos. The cut on the Jupiter sapphire is quite bad if you look at the GIA lab report. They tried to minimize the window by taking pictures of the sapphire at an angle and never straight on. Again, this stone has no origin listed.

The AfricaGems sapphires looks very promising! I think it will shake out as eye clean and with the discount, pricing becomes more reasonable (they are on the expensive side too). GIA/AGL verification is a must because I don't think GIC is able to test for diffusion.

 

[T L]

Niel: perhaps, these are not the best words to describe her gem/ring. I should say, perhaps, that I will do my best to find as good a gem as possible given my constrains; and it seems there is some luck already - you, and others are quite positive about the ATG's gem.

I have contacted the seller. The gem looks really good and is within the limits of my budget. But I am afraid it will be beyond my budget when the import taxes will be added. I am aware that ATG have very reasonable prices, but do you think there is a chance that they would reconsider the price?

Regarding the statement on the country origin: they claim that the stone was purchased in Sri Lanka from mines that do produce pads. Do you think, then, we can assume that the stone is indeed from Sri Lanka (my limited knowledge tells me that ATG is a very reputable vendor?).

I received some additional photos and videos of this pad from BlueSapphireStones : https://www.bluesapphirestones.com/...apphire/1.91ct-Unheated-Natural-Padparadscha- . Is it all right to upload such pictures and videos here? (I am not that well aware of the policies of this forum).

Also, I found this one at Africagems: http://www.africagems.com/oval-padparadscha-sapphire-g2k-92562689.html
They will shortly send me some additional photos and a video. They also say they could a GIA or AGL cert (in additional they now have 15% discount, until 25 may). What do you think?

The Africagems stone looks too raspberry colored to me, with some brown. You can find spinels that color easily. This is more of a fine padparadscha color to me.

http://www.africagems.com/sapphire-padparadsha-ja228.html

Never heard of bluesapphirestones.com, so I don't want to recommend. The stone is very brown though, and has a huge window (seen in the GIA report). Padparadschas can be very beautiful or very ugly/overpriced. You don't want the latter.

Padparadschas are one of those stones you can easily overpay for without getting decent quality.

 

[chrono]

The Africagems stone looks too raspberry colored to me, with some brown. You can find spinels that color easily. This is more of a fine padparadscha color to me.
http://www.africagems.com/sapphire-padparadsha-ja228.html

Yeah, but the one you like is 2x his budget.

 

[T L]

The Africagems stone looks too raspberry colored to me, with some brown. You can find spinels that color easily. This is more of a fine padparadscha color to me.
http://www.africagems.com/sapphire-padparadsha-ja228.html

Yeah, but the one you like is 2x his budget.

Yes, which is why I would never recommend a padparadscha unless

1) You're super lucky to find something affordable AND nice AND minimally treated (good luck there).
2) You have a really healthy budget.

Otherwise, save your money and get a raspberry brown spinel (not likely to be treated either). I don't mean to discourage the buyer, but padparadschas and alexandrites are the two gems to avoid without a healthy budget, and a ton of education on them.

 

[Niel]

This probably won't work but I'm going to share, it would need.

You to see if they would take an offer

You to bump your budget up (if that's ok sense its a platinum three stone setting too)

Possibly see about a prestige report

https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rings/three-stone-rings/natural-pink-orange-padparadscha-sapphire-diamond-platinum-ring/id-j_196592/?utm_medium=pla&utm_source=google&utm_term=fashion-rings&utm_content=complimentary&product=j196592&gclid=Cj0KEQjw4fCqBRDM1ZKhk5jfo6IBEiQAZQ97OOCZqVSyrF34JWy3cSiFffBPzrb91hYs9nl02v6aLukaAj-Q8P8HAQ

A new setting like that would be at least 2k, and thats a 2ct+ agl cert pad sapphire thats unheated. I actually think its a fair price, but its been for sale a while and stores like this I'd always make offers.

But, no origin....

 

[Henrikas_B]

Thank you all for your input.

Niel: the ring is nice, I will consider making an offer (though it's quite above my budget), thanks.

I am still waiting for replies from ATG and Africagems - and will post an update as soon as I get them.

Chrono: I see your points on the BlueSapphireStones' gem (I made a mistake previously, calling it Jupiter's). I believe the following confirms your diagnosis?





I haven't found out yet how to upload a video (as soon as I do that, I will upload a video of this gem - if it is still worth it/or you are curious).

 

[chrono]

Yes, it is windowed. I'd still appreciate looking at the video, if possible. I think you can post in UTube and then share the link here? Just don't use your real name in UTube!

 

[Henrikas_B]

I will try to upload the video of that gem soon (I have limited access to pc now).

Here's the link to the video of the Africagems' gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnGNjNoYyTE&feature=em-share_video_user

I am not sure I can see a lot of orange. Thus I am not sure if they could really get AGL/GIA's cert with "Variety: Padparadscha Sapphire". Given my timeframe, I would need to go for a rush report, which would cost some additional fee (that I would have to cover myself, I guess). What do you think?

 

[digdeep]

I have looked briefly because I think PAD"s are in the eye of the beholder. But given the timeline and how pink some of them appear to be..........I'll put this one out for your consideration. It is very affordable, a bit smaller, pink with an orange modifier according to Brad........who knows if it will be a PAD by AGL/GIA???; and is Sri Lanka origin. But you could easily buy it in your time frame and present it while continuing to look, or if it matches her heart...........GO with it! You could design one heck of a ring with the $$$ leftover. Anyway.......for your consideration: http://thegemtrader.com/Dec%2008%20Sapphire%20Page.htm

 

[agingsparkle]

This is a vendor on the CS sticky, you'd want to ask if it has a gem brief. Since it's a custom order, you might be able to purchase the stone and send it back for setting after input from your fiancee... https://www.etsy.com/listing/164435727/pink-padparadscha-sapphire-engagement?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=padparadscha%20sapphire&ref=sr_gallery_29