Old sperm related to autism?

[MonkeyPants]

Hi all

,

I lurk a whole lot more than I post, but something''s been on my mind and I can''t shake it. A couple weekends ago a friend of mine told me that a study came out about older men''s sperm = significantly higher risk of autism in children. I am 24, FI is 40. We''re getting married in June 2010 and will probably start TTC soon after. So if all goes as planned I''ll be 25 and he''ll be 41 when we conceive. Would you consider early 40s "old?" Just wondering if anyone else has heard this. Also if your DH was over 40 when you conceived, did you have a normal/problem-free pregnancy and healthy baby? Did you experience complications that you think might be related to your DH''s age?

The age difference between Fi and myself has never caused any issues in our relationship, but now that we''re starting to think about having children, I''m freaked out that we''ll have complications...

 

[LtlFirecracker]

I have herd this, but never seen the study to be honest. My BF is 38 and I am 30, so we will be in a similar situation.

I would not let this scare you into going forward with your plans. I do know people in their late 30s - 40s who have very healthy babies. Me and my BF know there is more risks as we BOTH get older, but we are not going to let it stop us.

ETA: I think in the future, we will find that the clinical manifestations of the autistic spectrum result from a final common pathway of multiple etiologies. Most likely a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Until we find out, the best approach is early identification (my goal is 18 months) and intensive, evidence based intervention like ABA therapy.

 

[lili]

I certainly hope 40 is not old.
My husband was almost 40 when we conceived our DD.
She''s a healthy and energetic 19 months old now.
We are TTCing for #2 and he''ll be close to 42 and I''m 37.

 

[Ara Ann]

I''m the youngest of seven kids, my mom was 38 when I was born and my dad was 41...(unusually ''old'' parents for my generation!)...and I am normal...well, just don''t ask my kids!

 

[MonkeyPants]

Thanks LtlFirecracker, lili, and ara ann for the reassurance. Ara Ann, you''re hilarious!

 

[MonkeyPie]

If you''re worried about your husband in particular, you could always get him tested

 

[sba771]

My mother in law believes this, she also believes sperm can get really drunk and that will give a baby problems....so yeah...where is the eye roll emoticon?

 

[D&T]

no problem with my sister who married at 24 conceived at 25 her First hubby was 40 at the time. My nieces are healthy and as normal as can be for a 9 and 7 year old.

 

[MonkeyPants]

Good point MP. I of course was too busy freaking out to think about this simple solution...

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 11/6/2009 4:45:48 PM
Author: MonkeyPants
Good point MP. I of course was too busy freaking out to think about this simple solution...

Don''t we all do that! And LOL @ our matching names hehe.

 

[Mara]

I saw this study a year ago too (you can google it) and I was thinking holy crap we are doomed! I was 34 and my hub was 40. I thought for sure not only would we have issues getting pregnant, but our kid would have like 4 heads or something.

Autism can afflict a child up to age 8 I believe (or around there) and I have not done any research on it, but lately it seems like doctors are also looking at environmental (external) factors that can increase the risk of autism in kids.

Someone mentioned on here recently in general as well that potentially because there are so many more kids being diagnosed with autism than previously, that might make it look like there is a huge RISE in it, when potentially it was here all along and being misdiagnosed or not seen.

Anyway back to the old sperm thing... I thought that was bizarre because men don't have sperm sitting around in their body like women do with their eggs.... WE are the ones born with all the eggs we'll ever have, talk about making an omelet with old eggs!! hahaha. But the men constantly produce new sperm and flush it out (for lack of a better term)...so I didn't get why they would say older men have old sperm.

I posed this Q in another thread and someone said that potentially it could be that the sperm production process gets a little muddled when men get older and it could lead to more sperm produced with funky characteristics, and lead to a higher risk of defects in general...we heard a little bit about this when we took a class at the hospital too.

Fast-fwd a year after reading the study. I am 7 months pregnant and we got pregnant on our absolute first try (literally). I used to joke it would take us forever with his OLD SPERM and my OLD EGGS.

We had all the testing done that was available to us, including an amnioscentisis. So far the kid looks fine, has all the right chromosomes etc...but again there could be external factors or things that doctors don't test for that you won't know about. But there's only so much you CAN do up front, and worry about.

I would say if you want to have kids, don't put it off forever, but don't worry that because your hub is older that it means you can't have healthy kids.

 

[MonkeyPants]

sba--haha i''d imagine that drunk sperm would just have a hard time navigating

D&T--good to know that your sister was in the same boat that I''m in now and had no problems!
MonkeyPie--yay for being name twinsies

Thanks Mara for your response. I was confused about the same thing re: old men and old sperm, but yes the sperm production problem seems to make sense.
And congrats on your pregnancy! I lurk on the preggos thread from time to time, especially on Fridays because all your bellies are so cute!

Thanks again. Can always count on PSers to make me feel better.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

I have a few things to say - first, one study is not nearly enough to prove any such associations. You would need hundreds of articles to find the same results to even conclude this link. The media loves to take rare studies, conclude wrongful findings, and make a mess of the whole situation. Don't believe everything you hear! Second, 40 years old in MAN years is not old. Men are reproductive well in to their late 70's for a reason.... Third, the general public tends to have a very skewed idea of what Autism really is... It's a spectrum disorder (ranging from low functioning to Asperger's - which is high functioning) meaning that even if your child did have it, they could still be pretty high functioning individuals with a relatively normal life. In other words, of all the things your child could have, autism may not be the worse of them...

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 11/6/2009 5:17:36 PM
Author: Mara
I saw this study a year ago too (you can google it) and I was thinking holy crap we are doomed! I was 34 and my hub was 40. I thought for sure not only would we have issues getting pregnant, but our kid would have like 4 heads or something.


Autism can afflict a child up to age 8 I believe (or around there) and I have not done any research on it, but lately it seems like doctors are also looking at environmental (external) factors that can increase the risk of autism in kids.


Someone mentioned on here recently in general as well that potentially because there are so many more kids being diagnosed with autism than previously, that might make it look like there is a huge RISE in it, when potentially it was here all along and being misdiagnosed or not seen.


Anyway back to the old sperm thing... I thought that was bizarre because men don''t have sperm sitting around in their body like women do with their eggs.... WE are the ones born with all the eggs we''ll ever have, talk about making an omelet with old eggs!! hahaha. But the men constantly produce new sperm and flush it out (for lack of a better term)...so I didn''t get why they would say older men have old sperm.


I posed this Q in another thread and someone said that potentially it could be that the sperm production process gets a little muddled when men get older and it could lead to more sperm produced with funky characteristics, and lead to a higher risk of defects in general...we heard a little bit about this when we took a class at the hospital too.


Fast-fwd a year after reading the study. I am 7 months pregnant and we got pregnant on our absolute first try (literally). I used to joke it would take us forever with his OLD SPERM and my OLD EGGS.

We had all the testing done that was available to us, including an amnioscentisis. So far the kid looks fine, has all the right chromosomes etc...but again there could be external factors or things that doctors don''t test for that you won''t know about. But there''s only so much you CAN do up front, and worry about.

I would say if you want to have kids, don''t put it off forever, but don''t worry that because your hub is older that it means you can''t have healthy kids.

Just to clarify, it''s not that Autism can afflict children up to age 8, in fact, in order to even be considered for a diagnosis the child has to have a history of autism related symptoms in early infancy (e.g. problems with social interaction, eye contact, developmental delays etc...). What they mean is usually a diagnosis occurs around that age since that is when children are school age and problems with social relationships become more evident. In other words, unless you have suspicion your child may be autistic or showing autistic related symptoms in early infancy, you don''t have to keep worrying until the child is 8. Also, in terms of the higher rate of Autism, there are likely multiple reasons, including better sensitivity to diagnosing the disorder.

 

[february2003bride]

Date: 11/6/2009 7:12:18 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite
I have a few things to say - first, one study is not nearly enough to prove any such associations. You would need hundreds of articles to find the same results to even conclude this link. The media loves to take rare studies, conclude wrongful findings, and make a mess of the whole situation. Don''t believe everything you hear! Second, 40 years old in MAN years is not old. Men are reproductive well in to their late 70''s for a reason.... Third, the general public tends to have a very skewed idea of what Autism really is... It''s a spectrum disorder (ranging from low functioning to Asperger''s - which is high functioning) meaning that even if your child did have it, they could still be pretty high functioning individuals with a relatively normal life. In other words, of all the things your child could have, autism may not be the worse of them...

True, just like some women can technically reproduce into their 50''s, but their eggs do age. From what I understand of what I''ve read and the discussions my friend has told me that they had with their specialists and at support groups, the genetic/age factor might not be too far off. She said if some day, God willing, they discover what causes autism (and why it affects boys more than girls) very few parents of autistic children will be surprised if it is genetics. Why wouldn''t a man''s ability to produce healthy sperm be affected by his age? If his body and hormones are aging, it would carry over to his sperm and the quality of it.

 

[february2003bride]

Date: 11/6/2009 7:18:05 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 11/6/2009 5:17:36 PM
Author: Mara
I saw this study a year ago too (you can google it) and I was thinking holy crap we are doomed! I was 34 and my hub was 40. I thought for sure not only would we have issues getting pregnant, but our kid would have like 4 heads or something.


Autism can afflict a child up to age 8 I believe (or around there) and I have not done any research on it, but lately it seems like doctors are also looking at environmental (external) factors that can increase the risk of autism in kids.


Someone mentioned on here recently in general as well that potentially because there are so many more kids being diagnosed with autism than previously, that might make it look like there is a huge RISE in it, when potentially it was here all along and being misdiagnosed or not seen.


Anyway back to the old sperm thing... I thought that was bizarre because men don''t have sperm sitting around in their body like women do with their eggs.... WE are the ones born with all the eggs we''ll ever have, talk about making an omelet with old eggs!! hahaha. But the men constantly produce new sperm and flush it out (for lack of a better term)...so I didn''t get why they would say older men have old sperm.


I posed this Q in another thread and someone said that potentially it could be that the sperm production process gets a little muddled when men get older and it could lead to more sperm produced with funky characteristics, and lead to a higher risk of defects in general...we heard a little bit about this when we took a class at the hospital too.


Fast-fwd a year after reading the study. I am 7 months pregnant and we got pregnant on our absolute first try (literally). I used to joke it would take us forever with his OLD SPERM and my OLD EGGS.

We had all the testing done that was available to us, including an amnioscentisis. So far the kid looks fine, has all the right chromosomes etc...but again there could be external factors or things that doctors don''t test for that you won''t know about. But there''s only so much you CAN do up front, and worry about.

I would say if you want to have kids, don''t put it off forever, but don''t worry that because your hub is older that it means you can''t have healthy kids.

Just to clarify, it''s not that Autism can afflict children up to age 8, in fact, in order to even be considered for a diagnosis the child has to have a history of autism related symptoms in early infancy (e.g. problems with social interaction, eye contact, developmental delays etc...). What they mean is usually a diagnosis occurs around that age since that is when children are school age and problems with social relationships become more evident. In other words, unless you have suspicion your child may be autistic or showing autistic related symptoms in early infancy, you don''t have to keep worrying until the child is 8. Also, in terms of the higher rate of Autism, there are likely multiple reasons, including better sensitivity to diagnosing the disorder.

Exactly. Mara, you won''t have a totally fine child at the age of 6 but suddenly by the age of 8, have one displaying autistic traits. Most children start showing autistic signs by the age of 18 months, some sooner, some later. But many aren''t disagnosed (assuming the parents aren''t in denial and seek out testing) until between the ages of 2 & 3. One of my friend''s has a 5 year old daughter who is currently going through testing right now and she definitely has autism (along with some other issues), she''s just waiting for the official label so she can start ABA therapy.

 

[Mara]

Thanks for clarifying that, ladies. Whatever I''d read just said that it could be diagnosed up to 8, but it makes sense that it doesn''t just come on at that age...and there would be indicators.

 

[MishB]

My father was 40 when my sister was born, and 42 when I was born. We''re both healthy, smart and successful.

A lot of my friends have had children later in life and they all seem quite fine.

 

[purrfectpear]

If older men''s sperm caused autism, then Hugh Hefner''s kid should have been born as autistic as they come

 

[Camille]

LOL pure....I doubt it, BIL is 48, 4 kids: 11,7,5 & 2 not sure he''s done

what can I say.........

 

[Maisie]

I definitely agree that the indicators for autism are there from a very young age. My son was displaying signs from the age of 2. My doctor told me that they don''t like to make a firm diagnosis till the child is at least 5 as there could be other reasons for the behaviours.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 11/7/2009 7:02:35 AM
Author: Maisie
I definitely agree that the indicators for autism are there from a very young age. My son was displaying signs from the age of 2. My doctor told me that they don''t like to make a firm diagnosis till the child is at least 5 as there could be other reasons for the behaviours.

That thinking has changed over the years. The push now is for early diagnosis because the most effective treatment is early intervention.

 

[Pandora II]

Just to add, my father and I both have high-functioning Aspergers. He''s an MD and I have worked in a number of different sectors at a high level where I have encountered others on the autistic spectrum who have very normal lives. It took a long time for me to learn some of the coping techniques I now have, and I''m lucky to have a SIL who''s job is working with kids with Aspergers and helps me a lot.

Internet based communication is a lot easier for me than inter-person, but I keep working at it!

So, autism is not necessarily as bad as you might imagine!

 

[cara]

They used to think that paternal age didn''t matter, but there is now evidence that there is an increased risk of certain genetic diseases in children of older fathers, particularly for single-mutation diseases. While sperm are ''grown fresh'', the cells that make the sperm must divide regularly to propogate themselves and can accumulate mutations over time.

There is a correllation between older fathers and schizophrenia as well as between older fathers and autism, and for both diseases the causative mechanism is not fully understood but genetic factors are thought to play a role. Now maybe older fathers are associated with some parenting style or environmental trigger of the diseases or are more likely to get their kids diagnosed, but there is at least a biologically plausible reason why sperm from older men might cause an increased risk.

Which is not to say that older men shouldn''t have kids by any means! Please, no one reasonable has asserted that 100% of children born to older fathers would develop autism - it might only be a small increased risk, and that is only if it even plays out to be validated by further studies. Having an older mother (35+) increases the risk of many genetic diseases in kids, doesn''t mean those women shouldn''t procreate or anything, just be aware of the added risk and get screened, etc, and do what you can to minimize the risks you have control over. Remember the baseline risk for a birth defect or genetic disease in a child by two young healthy people is still not zero - this babymaking stuff is full of risks and uncertainties, and that''s before they turn into teenagers

 

[miraclesrule]

I have youngs friends who''s child has a rare genetic disorder and older friends who have normal kids. I don''t thinink it''s age-related. That''s just too broad and general.

 

[cara]

MR, while children with genetic defects can be born to parents young or old, there is an increased risk associated with older parents. The relationship varies depending on the disease and age of the parents, and which parent (mother or father) is being discussed. Here is an example:

For a child born to a woman of Sarah Palin's age, the risk of Down's syndrome is ~ 1:50. I don't know about you, but for me that is a pretty high risk and it is something I would definitely be concerned about if I were having a baby in my 40s. For a woman in her twenties, the risk is 1:1000 or 1:2000. That's low but not impossibly low. In fact, 70% of babies with Down's syndrome are born to younger mothers because younger women have so many more babies than older women. In other words, if you ran into a baby with Down's in the supermarket, chances are it has a 'young' mom. But if you are a 43 yro woman expecting a baby, Down's syndrome is definitely more likely than if you were 23.

MP, the good news is that paternal age is not as strongly associated with chromosomal defects like Down's as is maternal age. So you being younger is definitely a help to the overall risks for you as the pair of potential parents.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 11/7/2009 4:55:20 PM
Author: Pandora II
Just to add, my father and I both have high-functioning Aspergers. He''s an MD and I have worked in a number of different sectors at a high level where I have encountered others on the autistic spectrum who have very normal lives. It took a long time for me to learn some of the coping techniques I now have, and I''m lucky to have a SIL who''s job is working with kids with Aspergers and helps me a lot.


Internet based communication is a lot easier for me than inter-person, but I keep working at it!


So, autism is not necessarily as bad as you might imagine!

Thank you for bringing this up! It''s so frustrating to hear people talk about the autistic spectrum like it''s a disease. I''ve spent several years at ivy league universities and many of the students were on the autistic spectrum. Aspergers/ high-functioning autism is often paired with very high intelligence. There are many, many successful people on the autistic spectrum.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 11/7/2009 1:14:29 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker

Date: 11/7/2009 7:02:35 AM
Author: Maisie
I definitely agree that the indicators for autism are there from a very young age. My son was displaying signs from the age of 2. My doctor told me that they don't like to make a firm diagnosis till the child is at least 5 as there could be other reasons for the behaviours.

That thinking has changed over the years. The push now is for early diagnosis because the most effective treatment is early intervention.

My son has just turned 5. His doctor still hasn't made a firm diagnosis. James has had speech therapy and has had an assistant in nursery school. He has had help but no diagnosis.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 11/8/2009 7:33:02 AM
Author: Maisie

Date: 11/7/2009 1:14:29 PM

Author: LtlFirecracker

Date: 11/7/2009 7:02:35 AM

Author: Maisie

I definitely agree that the indicators for autism are there from a very young age. My son was displaying signs from the age of 2. My doctor told me that they don't like to make a firm diagnosis till the child is at least 5 as there could be other reasons for the behaviours.

That thinking has changed over the years. The push now is for early diagnosis because the most effective treatment is early intervention.

My son has just turned 5. His doctor still hasn't made a firm diagnosis. James has had speech therapy and has had an assistant in nursery school. He has had help but no diagnosis.

Hi Masie, some doctors prefer to wait to make a diagnosis even if the early markers are there, because in early development changes can occur so quickly and with early intervention he may improve significantly... In addition, a diagnosis won't really help him until he is in elementary or even high school school (in terms of support). The most important thing is that he is receiving intervention at an early age. Is he verbal? Is he receiving any ABA therapy? It may be something you want to look in to if he is having language problems.

It's also important to note that there are a host of other issues that may present themselves similarly to Autism. For example, expressive language disabilities, non-verbal language disabilities, and high levels of social anxiety can sometimes also look "Autistic". These are other reasons doctors like to wait to diagnose.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 11/6/2009 7:31:49 PM
Author: february2003bride

Date: 11/6/2009 7:12:18 PM

Author: ilovethiswebsite

I have a few things to say - first, one study is not nearly enough to prove any such associations. You would need hundreds of articles to find the same results to even conclude this link. The media loves to take rare studies, conclude wrongful findings, and make a mess of the whole situation. Don''t believe everything you hear! Second, 40 years old in MAN years is not old. Men are reproductive well in to their late 70''s for a reason.... Third, the general public tends to have a very skewed idea of what Autism really is... It''s a spectrum disorder (ranging from low functioning to Asperger''s - which is high functioning) meaning that even if your child did have it, they could still be pretty high functioning individuals with a relatively normal life. In other words, of all the things your child could have, autism may not be the worse of them...

True, just like some women can technically reproduce into their 50''s, but their eggs do age. From what I understand of what I''ve read and the discussions my friend has told me that they had with their specialists and at support groups, the genetic/age factor might not be too far off. She said if some day, God willing, they discover what causes autism (and why it affects boys more than girls) very few parents of autistic children will be surprised if it is genetics. Why wouldn''t a man''s ability to produce healthy sperm be affected by his age? If his body and hormones are aging, it would carry over to his sperm and the quality of it.

I don''t disagree that aging *may* effect sperm quality - but to make a link between old sperm and autism based on one study is just irresponsible. I also don''t think 40 years old is that old, in man years. If the OP''s husband was in his 70s (closer to the end of his reproductive age) then maybe it would be more of a concern. Also, there has been some inconclusive evidence that Autism may be linked to genetics, for example, there are higher rates of autism in children of engineers... Also, for whatever reason, rates are also higher in urban areas. There are several possible reasons for these correlations, but the research is not at the point where we can make any formal causative conclusions.