Oh Girls :-(

[princesss]

CF, go to the FH&H forum and read Shana''s post about her marriage. Then think whether or not you''ll be okay if your BF feels you pushed him into getting married, and you end up in her shoes.

It''s not just getting married you should be thinking/worrying about. Maybe he''ll convince himself to get married because he "should." But what will the actual day-in, day-out MARRIAGE be like? Will he feel trapped and resentful?

But PP is right. HE needs to work on HIS issues with marriage.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

CF

June is not an unreasonable amount of time, and I don''t want you to come away thinking that. You need to make your own deadline, and no one but knows how much time you need.

However, I would suggest you do some things to make June real, so that it don''t just pass by. With the relationship, think about how you feel everyday, without the prospect of marriage. I say this because, if you do get married, after all the fun and stress of wedding planning, this is what your life will be like. Since you do live with him, use that as an opportunity to assess if you are happy just being together day to day.

The other thing, since you have a few months, and judging from this guys past, things might go one way or the other, be prepared if he does more of the same. I think some people would rather deal with the status quo to avoid the pain of the alternative, and that what might be happening with you. For all these years, it might have been easier to deal with the waiting rather than the prospect of a broken heart. I don''t think you to give up on this guy if you are not ready, but you should be thinking about ways you are going to deal with the broken heart. Who is there to support you when you are down? How close if your family? Will they understand what you are going though? Are there any new hobbies you have been wanting to start (so you fill your time)? What are you going to do about the house if things don''t work out?

I am not saying that he is never going to come around, but I think if you are at the point where you have had enough, thinking about the an alternative future to the one you have been dreaming about will help you break this cycle, no matter which way it is broken.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 4/6/2009 2:07:27 PM
Author: princesss
CF, read Shana''s post about her marriage. Then think whether or not you''ll be okay if your BF feels you pushed him into getting married, and you end up in her shoes.

It''s not just getting married you should be thinking/worrying about. Maybe he''ll convince himself to get married because he ''should.'' But what will the actual day-in, day-out MARRIAGE be like? Will he feel trapped and resentful?

In the face of all you know, all you''ve realized, all he''s done & said & NOT done -- its maddeningly single-minded to focus on the end-goal of marriage. WHAT THEN? Marriage heightens all the things that already frustrate you both. The reluctant husband becomes the reluctant father. What makes anyone think that people who are avoiding stuff at all costs are going to suddenly embrace it with the vigor & energy necessary to thrive?

I have a riddle for you:

In your relationship, one of you is unwilling to tolerate any sort of discomfort & the other is eager to sign up for a lifetime more of it. Who is who?**

**jmho

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 4/6/2009 2:40:25 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 4/6/2009 2:07:27 PM

Author: princesss

CF, read Shana''s post about her marriage. Then think whether or not you''ll be okay if your BF feels you pushed him into getting married, and you end up in her shoes.


It''s not just getting married you should be thinking/worrying about. Maybe he''ll convince himself to get married because he ''should.'' But what will the actual day-in, day-out MARRIAGE be like? Will he feel trapped and resentful?

In the face of all you know, all you''ve realized, all he''s done & said & NOT done -- its maddeningly single-minded to focus on the end-goal of marriage. WHAT THEN? Marriage heightens all the things that already frustrate you both. The reluctant husband becomes the reluctant father. What makes anyone think that people who are avoiding stuff at all costs are going to suddenly embrace it with the vigor & energy necessary to thrive?


I have a riddle for you:


In your relationship, one of you is unwilling to tolerate any sort of discomfort & the other is eager to sign up for a lifetime more of it. Who is who?**


**jmho

I can see that this might be an issue, but I have to say, that I have seen happy endings too... quite often, it seems, the guy drags his feet, and then when he finally gets there (to marriage or children), he finds he quite likes it!

So, depending on the nature of the guy, I guess, it''s not always cut and dried. People change. Attitudes change. Once anti-marriage or anti-family is not always anti-marriage or family, even if they are initially ''devastated'' when the pregnancy is announced, or refuse to contemplate or allow children for their partner for many years, or announce that they are ''only doing it (marriage)because she wants to'' or whatever...

Many people just chalk it down to growing up!

 

[trillionaire]

I think CF is wise enough and mature enough to assess her situation and make the right decision. I don''t think that BF bashing is necessary, or even necessarily correct. I especially am surprised about the comments about the email. On the one hand, I would want my SO to read it and not dismiss it, on the other hand, it doesn''t seem to me that it is a mortal sin if he glanced it over, got the gist, and trashed it. It doesn''t make him horrible, or immature, or unable to confront his personal demons. To use myself as an example, I once left garbage in front of my apt, for over a week. I knew it was wrong, but the weather was bad and our dump is a long walk away, so I left it. Eventually maintanence removed it, and left a note to reprimand the action. I glanced at it, and tossed it. I didn''t pour over it for hours and absorb every detail, I didn''t got to the office and apologize, or write a note back. I knew I was wrong, I knew what it said, and reading the details wasn''t going to change anything. I already felt bad for doing it, and the note was an unpleasant reminder. I haven''t repeated the action, despite trashing the note. I can imgane that if someone told me that I had treated them like a jerk, and I agreed with them, then days later, they sent me a letter detailing it, I would wonder why they were rubbing it in? People aren''t perfect. They don''t respond with perfect text book responses to situations, especially uncomfortable ones. I know that I am not perfect in my relationship, and sometimes I say or do the ''wrong thing'', but I do try hard to be better, and THAT is something that is really important.

 

[Treasure43]

Date: 4/7/2009 3:18:23 AM
Author: trillionaire
I think CF is wise enough and mature enough to assess her situation and make the right decision. I don''t think that BF bashing is necessary, or even necessarily correct. I especially am surprised about the comments about the email. On the one hand, I would want my SO to read it and not dismiss it, on the other hand, it doesn''t seem to me that it is a mortal sin if he glanced it over, got the gist, and trashed it. It doesn''t make him horrible, or immature, or unable to confront his personal demons. To use myself as an example, I once left garbage in front of my apt, for over a week. I knew it was wrong, but the weather was bad and our dump is a long walk away, so I left it. Eventually maintanence removed it, and left a note to reprimand the action. I glanced at it, and tossed it. I didn''t pour over it for hours and absorb every detail, I didn''t got to the office and apologize, or write a note back. I knew I was wrong, I knew what it said, and reading the details wasn''t going to change anything. I already felt bad for doing it, and the note was an unpleasant reminder. I haven''t repeated the action, despite trashing the note. I can imgane that if someone told me that I had treated them like a jerk, and I agreed with them, then days later, they sent me a letter detailing it, I would wonder why they were rubbing it in? People aren''t perfect. They don''t respond with perfect text book responses to situations, especially uncomfortable ones. I know that I am not perfect in my relationship, and sometimes I say or do the ''wrong thing'', but I do try hard to be better, and THAT is something that is really important.

Trillionaire I must respectfully disagre with your comparison to not reading all the details from the letter from maintaence and CF''s BF deletingthe e-mail because it was too hard to read. Those were HER thoughts and if he truly thinks he behaved horribly and wants to change, then at some point he needs to know everything she''s feeling and face up to facts. If my BF trashed an e-mail I sent him with my thoughts on our relationship I would be furious. Also, you''ve never repeated your trash mistake but CF''s BF has been making the same ''mistakes'' over and over again without any change in his behavior.

However I do agee that CF is wise enough and mature enough to make the right decision for her, whatever it may be!

 

[chocolatefudge]

Date: 4/6/2009 2:40:25 PM
Author: decodelighted

In the face of all you know, all you''ve realized, all he''s done & said & NOT done -- its maddeningly single-minded to focus on the end-goal of marriage. WHAT THEN? Marriage heightens all the things that already frustrate you both. The reluctant husband becomes the reluctant father. What makes anyone think that people who are avoiding stuff at all costs are going to suddenly embrace it with the vigor & energy necessary to thrive?

I have a riddle for you:

In your relationship, one of you is unwilling to tolerate any sort of discomfort & the other is eager to sign up for a lifetime more of it. Who is who?**

**jmho

As I''ve said before, I already live with my boyfriend and we share finances, apart from KNOWING that we were married I don''t think it would make much difference in our everyday lives. I''m not sure I know what you mean when you say that mariage will heighten all the things that already frustrate us? The only thing frustrating me is not getting married!

If getting married was not important to me then our lives would be near perfect because I really am so happy. Also, I don''t believe that because someone is reluctant about getting married they will also be reluctant to have children.

 

[janinegirly]

CF: hmm, things do change once you're married. Something changes since there is a much more permanent bond, both legally and emotionally. Pros are security, true partnership for long term goals (everything is built towards the future without having to say "if"). Cons are security can lead to complacency which means all true colors come out and the illusion of certain traits fades and other emerge. Yes you see some of this living together (why living together first is a good idea in my opinion) but it is even MORE so once you're married. Like I said it's psychological switch and things do shift a bit. And even more so once kids enter the picture. Anyway, I've only read your last post so sorry if this is repetitive.I must caution you on thinking everything will be perfect if only you were married. This will not be the case, and the fact that you've waited soooo long may also mean you have some buried resentment which could surface later. This is actually the damage your bf is currently doing by waiting and not being upfront with what it is that is holding him back, and if he ever intends to REALLY move forward. Again, if you had no interest in marriage, then it might be different, but the fact is you want it very badly and your bf (for the time being) is on a different page.

Blueroses: hi!!! I remember you and always wondered whatever happened since you were finally engaged but then, poof! I am sorry to hear how it all turned out but you sound so much stronger with more clarity now. I'd love to hear what's new with you now-hoping I didn't miss a thread somewhere? And ladies (CF), read blueroses posts a few times, she's a wise one!!

 

[girlie-girl]

CF the thing that keeps coming to my mind as I read all the updates and summaries is... say he proposes, how long will you be okay with being engaged? Are you hoping to set a date right away? Do you think he will? Seems like being engaged could be the next phase in the waiting game. From what I''m gathering you want to be married, not just engaged. I just worry you may be in for more of the same, though I certainly hope not.

I don''t know what kind of music you listen to, but I heard "Jack Johnson - Sitting Waiting Wishing" on the radio earlier and I just couldn''t help but think of all this you''re going through. If you know the song (or later go listen to it) NO I''m NOT calling you a fool or anything similar, I just thought it a bit ironic since I had just read through the updates in this thread prior to leaving.

I''m pulling for you to make the decision that is right for YOU. No matter how everyone else feels or what they think you should do, you are the one who needs to be happy and content with your choices as you''re the only one who has to live with them. Good luck in this difficult journey, just remember to be strong and true to yourself.

 

[chocolatefudge]

Thank you Girlie-girl, I will listen to the song.

I''ve always made it clear to my SO that I don''t want him to propose until he is ready (because I''d hate to think I''d pushed him into it) and that once we are engaged I''d want to start planning the wedding. So he does know that once he''s proposed I would want to set the ball rolling and he has agreed with this. That''s why I''m hoping that the reason it''s taken so long is because he''s been waiting until he''s 100% ready.

 

[NuggetBrain]

First of all, I'd like to say that I don't ever want to hear you call yourself stupid again because you are NOT stupid. Althought I'm rather new to the board, you have only shown yourself to be someone deeply in love with a man who obviously isn't ready to commit, and there is nothing stupid about that. You can't control the way you feel about someone. But I would suggest that you take a step back and ask yourself this - if your best friend was telling you all the things that you've been telling us and yourself over the last two years, what would you be saying to her? Sometimes its difficult to really see your situation from the inside, but I really think that your SO has some issues. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, because he very well may be very much in love with you as well. And I'm sure that there are many redeeming and lovely qualities about him. But he's also immature, and manipluative (intentionally or not). It's not a healthy relationship as it stands now, because you are obviously unhappy. And while you say that the only thing wrong is the engagement issue, its becoming the focus of your relationship. Its now progressed from a minor issue to a very major one, and that changes the tone of a relationship.

My fiance and I were dating for almost 8 years when he finally proposed. He had the ring for a year but nobody was supposed to know about it, so it was hell waiting but he wanted to surprise me and wanted everything to be perfect. However, because it took him so long, my grandfather passed away three weeks before he proposed. Since my grandpa was my father figure (parents divorced, dad's kind of an ass) it was absolutely devastating. Doubly so because I am his only granddaughter, and he was so very upset that my SO hadn't proposed yet - at the end of his life that's pretty much all he talked about when I saw him. And as much as I love him and am happy to be getting married to him, there is a part of me that will never be able to forgive him for letting the proposal wait for so long, and knowing that the most important man in my life never got to see the ring on my finger, and never got to help me plan, and will never get to walk me down the aisle. You need to ask yourself how much you're willing to miss out on because of this guy. You never know what tomorrow is going to bring, and I would hate for you to look back at all the missed opportunities and lost chances in your life and wish that you could have a do-over. I think that it would be a good idea to maybe go stay with family or friends for a while and remove yourself from the house and him so you can really think about things.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/5/2009 8:37:12 PM
Author: decodelighted
All my sophistication has gone out the window. This is all I have left: WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP .. oh yeah .. & WAKE THE FREAK UP.

OMG Chocolate Fudge. You reduced Deco to THIS.

I''m sorry to hear that you are going through this. You always seemed like a very sweet poster to me.

For that matter, so did Becky P. Her man turned out to prefer men.

Not saying you are going to be in the same boat, although I think Becky P''s ending was almost more merciful.

No, you''re not a stupid person, but I''ll disagree with the others and say you''re being stupid about your relationship. Why? Because until he can get around to fully committing to you (and in your case, that means marriage), you should be putting your happiness first. And you are not. According to what you are telling us, he is jerking you around big time. And you don''t sound happy, even if you claim to be. "Mini" breakthroughs will only get you so far in your day to day relief from misery.

Are you promising us that come June, you''ll be ready to leave for good if he doesn''t propose? Really? You promise and pinky swear?

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 4/7/2009 6:31:26 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Are you promising us that come June, you''ll be ready to leave for good if he doesn''t propose? Really? You promise and pinky swear?

yes, CF, pinky swear!

 

[chocolatefudge]

What is pinky swear??

I''m off to Spain for a few days girls so will speak to you all when I get back. You never know, maybe my very slow boyfriend will miss me so much he will propose when I get home!! I''m always the eternal optimist...

 

[bee*]

Have a great time in Spain and I would so love that to happen for you on your return.

 

[chocolatefudge]

Bee, I want your dog!!!

 

[FrekeChild]

Have fun in Spain!

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/9/2009 4:57:42 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
Bee, I want your dog!!! [/QUOTE

lol!!.......off to hide Amber

 

[mousey]

Hi, I am new to the ladies in waiting forum, and I don t know if this has been suggested before, but.....
Have you tried getting to the bottom of his fears (or lack of enthusiasm) about marriage/engagement? I had a similar story (though for a shorter timespan) w my boyf. I really did nt understand his lack of enthusiasm. I tried leaving hints etc about what I wanted, and then admittedly tantrums, but it was nt until we sat down and had a proper conversation, with me not being emotional or critical that he opened up and told me that he was terrified as he had a really hard time going through his parents divorce. My parents are also divorced, so it did nt occur to me till then that this could be holding him back.
Also, have you talked to him about children? i.e. how he feels about having them (that is if you want them). For me at least, if my partner really did nt want to marry then it would upset and disappoint me but I think I would stay, but if he really did nt want children then I would have to leave.
p.s. I think this forum is amazing for all the advice help on rings and emotions. What caring and helpful people you lot are!!!! BUT, CF do remember that the only people who know what your relationship is really like are you and him. Its the same with friends- you tell them all the bad things that happen between you in the relationship because you need their advice or need to air your feelings, but then they get the impression that he is a monster. We are all monsters in a way, but usually there are a couple of other dimensions (better ones) to our personalities. What I am trying to say is that people are only trying to help, but they only see the side of him that you complain of and not the loving great perfect etc side.

 

[Rhea]

What are his reasons for not wanting to get married, for not being ready? As you said, you are already living as a married couple.

I have a male friend who swore up and down that he didn''t want to get married. His partner, who he owns a house with, of several years wanted to get married. They recently got engaged and are planning a wedding. It wasn''t so much that he didn''t want to get married. It''s that she wanted to get married. I''m closer to him than her and when we''ve had drinks recently we still says that he doesn''t care about marriage. But for some reason it was important to her. And her thoughts on it mattered more than his to him. He wasn''t indifferently exactly, more against marriage than for it, but saw her views, whatever they are, and decided that since they owned a house together and all that it was really no different and wouldn''t affect him the same way it affected her want to get married.

I think everything is a bit like that (or I just married the wrong person

). It''s all compromise. She wanted it more, it means something to her and because he loves her he''s going along with it. To my knowledge, she never threatened to leave him, he just knew that it meant a lot to her and wanted to see her happy. What is it about marriage that means so much to you? And what is it about marriage that he doesn''t like or want?

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 4/11/2009 8:12:10 PM
Author: Addy
What are his reasons for not wanting to get married, for not being ready? As you said, you are already living as a married couple.

I have a male friend who swore up and down that he didn''t want to get married. His partner, who he owns a house with, of several years wanted to get married. They recently got engaged and are planning a wedding. It wasn''t so much that he didn''t want to get married. It''s that she wanted to get married. I''m closer to him than her and when we''ve had drinks recently we still says that he doesn''t care about marriage. But for some reason it was important to her. And her thoughts on it mattered more than his to him. He wasn''t indifferently exactly, more against marriage than for it, but saw her views, whatever they are, and decided that since they owned a house together and all that it was really no different and wouldn''t affect him the same way it affected her want to get married.

I think everything is a bit like that (or I just married the wrong person

). It''s all compromise. She wanted it more, it means something to her and because he loves her he''s going along with it. To my knowledge, she never threatened to leave him, he just knew that it meant a lot to her and wanted to see her happy. What is it about marriage that means so much to you? And what is it about marriage that he doesn''t like or want?

lol. OP, maybe he needs to watch "He''s just not that into you" with you...

 

[FrekeChild]

Good call Trill.

Jennifer Aniston''s story made me cry like a baby...

 

[chocolatefudge]

Hi Ladies, I''m back from not-so-sunny-Spain! SO didn''t propose at airport, which is not a surprise at all but I do let my imagination run away with itself....

BUT last night we went to bed and he told me that he had been looking at rings on the internet and researching them while I was away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Said he had missed me so much and couldn''t wait for me to come home.

This is a step in the right direction right???

 

[FrekeChild]

So far it''s talk and no action (as far as we know anyway). At least he''s talking about it though.

 

[purrfectpear]

Only if you believe everything you hear, every time his lips are flapping.

At this point, we need to see results to trust him

 

[tlh]

Date: 4/14/2009 12:51:54 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
Hi Ladies, I''m back from not-so-sunny-Spain! SO didn''t propose at airport, which is not a surprise at all but I do let my imagination run away with itself....

BUT last night we went to bed and he told me that he had been looking at rings on the internet and researching them while I was away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Said he had missed me so much and couldn''t wait for me to come home.

This is a step in the right direction right???

I hope so.