No Marriage

[oddoneout]

How common do you think it is that women (and men) do not want to get married? What are their reasons for not wanting to? I''m just curious.

Thanks

 

[starsapphire]

I have no idea. I dated a guy for 8 years. No marriage talk. I guess I should have ended it sooner, but I kept hoping. Then, when I dumped him, and got married less than a year after, he called me the day before my wedding and wished me well. Go figure!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It seems like there are a lot of men who are afraid of commitment. The only women I have ever known who didn''t want to marry had either been burned one too many times or perhaps they had a traumatic childhood. But I think the men not wanting to marry are more common.

 

[D2B]

Well, if you believe the Uk papers, as of the last couple of days or so, for the first time ever, co-habiting couples outnumber married ones in the UK.

d2b

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 9/27/2008 3:04:12 PM
Author: starsapphire
I have no idea. I dated a guy for 8 years. No marriage talk. I guess I should have ended it sooner, but I kept hoping. Then, when I dumped him, and got married less than a year after, he called me the day before my wedding and wished me well. Go figure!

The angry person in me wants to say *w..ker*

and hearing that co-habiters outnumber married makes me feel depressed. Because I think those numbers *must* hide a huge number of 'coping' women, who dearly cling to the dream that one day they will be 'rewarded' for their efforts. I imagine they often feel taken advantage of, silenced, unvalued. I also imagine many men are hoping to control women's desire to have children, by refusing to marry.

The high number of women who seem to be childless against their will (ie time runs out for them, and they turn to IVF) seems to me to be an example of the selfishness we are encouraging in modern men, to ruthlessly 'use up' a woman's most fertile years, because they fear the co-operation needed for children.

But marriage is not just about children, although I imagine that is a pretty important reason men hold back. To refuse to marry, yet take full advantage of the day-to-day of relationship seems immature to me. Often the full fruits of marriage are not realised at the start. One must give oneself, freely, like planting a tree, and watch the beauty flow from there. I am hoping to teach my son that.

My own parents were engaged within a fortnight of meeting each other, and I think it must have really affected me, because I have never understood the whole culture of waiting, waiting, waiting... often I think it is to the man's advantage, and to the woman's distinct disadvantage.
My own experiences, and that of my husband, have not really changed my mind.

 

[Rhea]

I didn''t want to. No particular reason, I just don''t see marriage as a big deal. To me, a government issued piece of paper, I''m not religious, does not make my relationship any more valid than a co-habitating couple''s relationship. Marriage does not make or break a relationship.

I live in the UK where couples, married or not, have about the same rights. My in-laws aren''t married and it''s just not a big deal. I only call my partner "my husband" when I''m agruing the phone company that I should be added to the phone bill. I also didn''t want to get married until gay couples also had the right to marry. In England that happened on 5 December 2005.

 

[LaraOnline]

Addy''s point is interesting. I guess I don''t view life through a political lense, more a spiritual one...

 

[oddoneout]

What about women who do not want to get married? A lot of you talked about men. What are womens'' reasons?

 

[zoebartlett]

Maybe women who choose not to get married feel like they''d lose some of their independence if they tie the knot. That''s how I was at first. I''m not a hugely independent person, but there were times when I thought that maybe marriage wasn''t in the cards for me. I was always a "if it happens, it happens" kind of girl. I never really pictured my wedding day when I was younger, and when my friends were planning their weddings, it felt like we were on different planets at times. I couldn''t relate at all. It was fun listening to their plans, but it was so foreign to me.

Then I ended up meeting my husband 5 years ago. I finally got a peek into the lives my friends had with their husbands, and I knew that I wanted that too. He went through a stage where he wasn''t sure if he was "marriage material" at some point in our relationship. He wasn''t sure if it was something he truly wanted. He came around though.

 

[Rhea]

Date: 9/28/2008 7:58:31 AM
Author: oddoneout
What about women who do not want to get married? A lot of you talked about men. What are womens'' reasons?

I''m a woman. My partner actually wanted to get married. It wasn''t a have to do thing for him, but he did see himself getting married someday.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 9/28/2008 7:58:31 AM
Author: oddoneout
What about women who do not want to get married? A lot of you talked about men. What are womens'' reasons?

I can''t talk about women''s reasons for not marrying a person they are living intimately with over a period of time. I wanted to get married from the get-go. So my input on that topic would be pure speculation! Sorry!

 

[MishB]

I didn''t meet my husband until my early 30''s, however I had a couple of long term live in relationships before, where I didn''t even consider marriage. It wasn''t a matter of convenience, they were happy ''committed'' relationships, but for me marriage was something else again. When I met my husband, I had started to think I might never get married, but when we met I knew immediately he was the one. I have never, and still don''t want children so that wasn''t a driving force for me to be seeking marriage.

 

[Daydreamer7130]

Let''s set aside the emotional reasons.. ie: committment fear, bad vibes from friends/family divorces, etc. and look at some logical and financial reasons.

Sometimes there are more financial reasons NOT to get married. For instance, social security payments drop when married as compared to collecting 2 SS incomes (especially for the eldery), there maybe some pension related financial issues, alimony issues, financial reasons when there are children involved especially health insurance. If there are children involved, it pays to stay single and claim head of household when compared to filing joint or filing married separate.

If you are a college student, one income will provide better grants/loans etc. instead of having to submit your joint household income when married. If you are a student with a child and single, the grant money is amazing.

Just my thoughts!

 

[starsapphire]

In my case, my 8 year relationship, we did not live together. We just saw each other every day, and we were quite comfy with that. For a while. Then, I started to wonder....every time I brought up marriage, he got kinda hostile almost. To this day, he is 48, and never married. He is, of course, onto his next relationship. His parents were married until his dad died, his mother re-married. Never a problem in their family. I just think he thinks he is God''s gift to women, and does not want to be tied down. He is tall, good looking, and has a great body. Go figure. We never had kids, I never wanted them. He is now, for the first time in his life, living with a woman that has a kid.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 9/28/2008 7:56:51 AM
Author: Addy
I didn''t want to. No particular reason, I just don''t see marriage as a big deal. To me, a government issued piece of paper, I''m not religious, does not make my relationship any more valid than a co-habitating couple''s relationship. Marriage does not make or break a relationship.

I live in the UK where couples, married or not, have about the same rights. My in-laws aren''t married and it''s just not a big deal. I only call my partner ''my husband'' when I''m agruing the phone company that I should be added to the phone bill. I also didn''t want to get married until gay couples also had the right to marry. In England that happened on 5 December 2005.

Not true I''m afraid.

If you own property jointly and one partner dies, you don''t have automatic rights to the other half of the property. You are also liable for death duties. If you are married you automatically inherit and don''t pay any duty.

One of the main reasons we had for marrying was that we wanted the protection that marriage gives us. Some hospitals may accept co-habiting partners as next-of-kin but many will not.

 

[LuckyTexan]

Quite a few of my long time friends feel this way. Their answer is... why? They''re happy the way they are, and don''t want to mess with a good thing.

One couple has 2 kids, has been together for years, and actually refer to each other has ''my wife'' and ''my husband''... but have never been legally married.

I think with the rate of divorce so high, a lot of the marrying age people out there are children of divorce... something our society hasn''t ever really had a large quantity of!

Back just 30 years ago it was like a *GASP* shameful thing that your parents were divorcing... nowadays it''s more common than not!

 

[LuckyTexan]

Date: 9/28/2008 7:58:31 AM
Author: oddoneout
What about women who do not want to get married? A lot of you talked about men. What are womens'' reasons?

A woman who doesn''t want to marry? That''s like a black hole, interstellar aliens and bigfoot! hahaha!

Just kidding. I grew up wanting to be my MOTHER... married for 38 years now, and the SAHM of 5 children... I always wanted to get married and have kids!

My sister doesn''t ever want to get married, or have kids. She''s nothing like me, and if I could pin point a major difference, I''d say she is much more self serving than I am... her life revolves around her. I don''t think everyone is cut out to be a wife/mother type... we aren''t all cut from the same cloth! Even sisters!

 

[Madam Bijoux]

I never wanted to be married because I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional household. My parents'' marriage was a disaster and I didn''t want to risk getting into the same situation they had. Also, I''ve always been a very strong willed, independent person-- the words "negotiate" and "compromise" are just not in my lexicon. All things considered, the nicest thing I could ever do for any man is to not marry him.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/28/2008 9:34:02 AM
Author: Daydreamer7130
Let''s set aside the emotional reasons.. ie: committment fear, bad vibes from friends/family divorces, etc. and look at some logical and financial reasons.

Sometimes there are more financial reasons NOT to get married. For instance, social security payments drop when married as compared to collecting 2 SS incomes (especially for the eldery), there maybe some pension related financial issues, alimony issues, financial reasons when there are children involved especially health insurance. If there are children involved, it pays to stay single and claim head of household when compared to filing joint or filing married separate.

If you are a college student, one income will provide better grants/loans etc. instead of having to submit your joint household income when married. If you are a student with a child and single, the grant money is amazing.

Just my thoughts!

I thought that married people got tax breaks when they have kids? But aside from that, it''s shown that children are raised in more financially and emotionally stable & secure households when parents are married. Children also have a much higher rate of avoiding prison if they are from two-parent families. I don''t think that marriage is necessary for a couple who doesn''t want to have kids, but if you have kids, I think it''s in the children''s best interest to get married, unless one of the parents is a criminal or drug addict or something.

Also, here''s an aneddote for a friend of mine who''s having a horrible situation, because her & her fiance have never married - they have been together for six years, have a child together, and have been engaged but never bothered to tie the knot. The woman said she never knew why they would "need a piece of paper." Well, it''s recently come out that he''s cheat on her. Since the house and most of their assets are in his name, when they broke up, she had to take her child and leave. She has no rights to their house, or most of their money, because they were not technically married. Also, even though he is going to have to pay child support, it''s going to be much more complicated legally to establish paternity and start payments. So for people who think they don''t need the piece of paper, I think that women will often get the short end of the stick in case the relationship ends.

 

[Rhea]

Date: 9/28/2008 10:26:29 AM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 9/28/2008 7:56:51 AM

Author: Addy

I didn''t want to. No particular reason, I just don''t see marriage as a big deal. To me, a government issued piece of paper, I''m not religious, does not make my relationship any more valid than a co-habitating couple''s relationship. Marriage does not make or break a relationship.


I live in the UK where couples, married or not, have about the same rights. My in-laws aren''t married and it''s just not a big deal. I only call my partner ''my husband'' when I''m agruing the phone company that I should be added to the phone bill. I also didn''t want to get married until gay couples also had the right to marry. In England that happened on 5 December 2005.

Not true I''m afraid.


If you own property jointly and one partner dies, you don''t have automatic rights to the other half of the property. You are also liable for death duties. If you are married you automatically inherit and don''t pay any duty.


One of the main reasons we had for marrying was that we wanted the protection that marriage gives us. Some hospitals may accept co-habiting partners as next-of-kin but many will not.

I know that there are some differences, but compared to the US, at least my area of the US, there are a ton more rights.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Date: 9/28/2008 11:29:40 AM
Author: Madam Bijoux
I never wanted to be married because I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional household. My parents'' marriage was a disaster and I didn''t want to risk getting into the same situation they had. Also, I''ve always been a very strong willed, independent person-- the words ''negotiate'' and ''compromise'' are just not in my lexicon. All things considered, the nicest thing I could ever do for any man is to not marry him.

This is exactly how my mother felt. After my dad''s horrible first marriage and all my mom''s bad experiences with it, neither wanted to do it again and were perfectly happy as just an unmarried couple. Until my mom got preggers and as lawyers they felt the legal protections were too important to forgo. They are happy after all these years, but I understand completely why they were not planning to get married.

 

[Black Jade]

Marriage protects women and their children.
It''s not so easy to be ''equal'' to men in terms of working at a job when either pregnant or breast-feeding, and caring for children, especially little ones under 3 years old. No matter how capable and intelligent you are. Obviously single moms do what they have to do in our current society, where women are left to fend for themselves more often than not, but no one could say that it''s an optimum way to have to cope. Women who choose to be mothers benefit immensely when the security that married women used to have, and then society benefits because the next generation is cared for and educated up to the point where they are mature citizens and can carry on.
Women give up an immense amount to bear children and care for them--their independence, what would be their best earning years and the years that they would put in a job to get a pension for their older age, the time they could be using to keep looking attractive, etc. etc. Especially if they have more than one child. Marriage made sure they were not left up a creek without a paddle, as all too often happens nowadays with either no marriage or no-fault divorce. Marriage does have benefits for men, too, but they are relatively less and nowadays a guy can get many of what used to be the benefits of marriage for men, with none of the responsibilities. This is why you get the situation an earlier poster describes where the woman in the relationship is hoping for marriage, sometimes for years, but the guy has no incentive to commit.
Of course a woman has a perfect right to not want to have kids, and then in my opinion SHOULDN''t have kids, in which case the playing field is levelled a lot and she can enjoy her own career, interests, hobbies, etc. and then she doesn''t need marriage--she might want it for the companionship and romance, but she doesn''t need the security that it was created to provide.
Of course, if a whole lot of women choose not to have children, a society is in trouble, there is no next generation. This is actually happening in much of the developed world. I have no answer to this--you wouldn''t want to force women to have kids. But you can see that it''s a problem when childbearing is not an attractive idea to a majority of women, especially those whom society has invested the most in (the better-off and the better educated).
You hear a lot of talk nowadays about marriage being a ''right'' and even a ''civil right''. But in my opinion, it was never a right. It was something that developed as a very practical trade-off to make it worthwhile to women to give up a lot of their rights and to help them with the hard job of bearing and raising future citizens. The whole institution has no point (from society''s point of view)if society isn''t getting something back--it just becomes individuals demanding special privileges in return for --nothing.

 

[swimmer]

My parents got married because mom needed to be on Dad''s health insurance.
Totally the high point of romance on my dad''s part.

I have several straight and gay friends who will not marry until homosexuals'' right to marry is recognized everywhere in the US, not just in liberal outposts. They might be waiting for a while.

 

[lovegem]

Date: 9/28/2008 7:56:51 AM
Author: Addy
I didn''t want to. No particular reason, I just don''t see marriage as a big deal. To me, a government issued piece of paper, I''m not religious, does not make my relationship any more valid than a co-habitating couple''s relationship. Marriage does not make or break a relationship.

exactly my thoughts too. I am married and I dated my guy for 7 or 8 years (don''t even remember now) before we tied the knot. The only reason that we got married was that hubby''s parents are quite old, and they really wanted to see us "settle down". Since we see no differences in being married or being common law partners, but the Married word would make our parents happier, we did it. Our life stays the same before and after the marriage thingy. The only diff is that our saving gone down quite a bit because of the wedding.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I pushed for marriage, then within three months of being married missed my old, more-independent-feeling living together relationship, haha.

Truthfully, I didn''t want to have a family outside of a marriage, but if I didn''t want kids I don''t think I''d ever want to be married. Some love it, some feel suffocated by it, I''m sort of in the middle. We''re celebrating our 1 year anniversary today and we both genuinely enjoy being married, but we were equally happy the 8 years we were together before getting married.

I have known 3 couples who were together for many many years (one more than 25 years) without being married and they have the happiest, healthiest relationships I know.

 

[Circe]

Date: 9/28/2008 3:21:28 PM
Author: Black Jade
Marriage protects women and their children.

It''s not so easy to be ''equal'' to men in terms of working at a job when either pregnant or breast-feeding, and caring for children, especially little ones under 3 years old. No matter how capable and intelligent you are. Obviously single moms do what they have to do in our current society, where women are left to fend for themselves more often than not, but no one could say that it''s an optimum way to have to cope. Women who choose to be mothers benefit immensely when the security that married women used to have, and then society benefits because the next generation is cared for and educated up to the point where they are mature citizens and can carry on.

Women give up an immense amount to bear children and care for them--their independence, what would be their best earning years and the years that they would put in a job to get a pension for their older age, the time they could be using to keep looking attractive, etc. etc. Especially if they have more than one child. Marriage made sure they were not left up a creek without a paddle, as all too often happens nowadays with either no marriage or no-fault divorce. Marriage does have benefits for men, too, but they are relatively less and nowadays a guy can get many of what used to be the benefits of marriage for men, with none of the responsibilities. This is why you get the situation an earlier poster describes where the woman in the relationship is hoping for marriage, sometimes for years, but the guy has no incentive to commit.

Of course a woman has a perfect right to not want to have kids, and then in my opinion SHOULDN''t have kids, in which case the playing field is levelled a lot and she can enjoy her own career, interests, hobbies, etc. and then she doesn''t need marriage--she might want it for the companionship and romance, but she doesn''t need the security that it was created to provide.

Of course, if a whole lot of women choose not to have children, a society is in trouble, there is no next generation. This is actually happening in much of the developed world. I have no answer to this--you wouldn''t want to force women to have kids. But you can see that it''s a problem when childbearing is not an attractive idea to a majority of women, especially those whom society has invested the most in (the better-off and the better educated).

You hear a lot of talk nowadays about marriage being a ''right'' and even a ''civil right''. But in my opinion, it was never a right. It was something that developed as a very practical trade-off to make it worthwhile to women to give up a lot of their rights and to help them with the hard job of bearing and raising future citizens. The whole institution has no point (from society''s point of view)if society isn''t getting something back--it just becomes individuals demanding special privileges in return for --nothing.

This entire post? Absolutely brilliant.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

When I was growing up, I always thought I wouldn't want to get married. All the girls I hung out with were all about getting married and having kids someday, but I just . . . wasn't. I guess I'm weird!

I've been married twice now, and both times it was the guy who pushed for a wedding. My XH wanted not only to get married, but to have a big, traditional wedding too. (I would have been much happier with a small ceremony on a beach somewhere or maybe even in a nice little wedding chapel in Vegas!) DH and I had a much smaller wedding, but it was also pretty traditional (white dress, tux, etc.). Again, he is the one who first brought up marriage, and continued to push for it.

Not to say that I wouldn't have wanted to get married . . . someday. Just that I was never in any rush.

ETA: Oh, and the health insurance thing! That's the only thing that really changed for me when DH and I got married . . . I have health insurance now! LOL!

 

[Daydreamer7130]

Date: 9/28/2008 1:16:07 PM
Author: vespergirl

Date: 9/28/2008 9:34:02 AM
Author: Daydreamer7130
Let''s set aside the emotional reasons.. ie: committment fear, bad vibes from friends/family divorces, etc. and look at some logical and financial reasons.

Sometimes there are more financial reasons NOT to get married. For instance, social security payments drop when married as compared to collecting 2 SS incomes (especially for the eldery), there maybe some pension related financial issues, alimony issues, financial reasons when there are children involved especially health insurance. If there are children involved, it pays to stay single and claim head of household when compared to filing joint or filing married separate.

If you are a college student, one income will provide better grants/loans etc. instead of having to submit your joint household income when married. If you are a student with a child and single, the grant money is amazing.

Just my thoughts!

I thought that married people got tax breaks when they have kids? But aside from that, it''s shown that children are raised in more financially and emotionally stable & secure households when parents are married. Children also have a much higher rate of avoiding prison if they are from two-parent families. I don''t think that marriage is necessary for a couple who doesn''t want to have kids, but if you have kids, I think it''s in the children''s best interest to get married, unless one of the parents is a criminal or drug addict or something.

Also, here''s an aneddote for a friend of mine who''s having a horrible situation, because her & her fiance have never married - they have been together for six years, have a child together, and have been engaged but never bothered to tie the knot. The woman said she never knew why they would ''need a piece of paper.'' Well, it''s recently come out that he''s cheat on her. Since the house and most of their assets are in his name, when they broke up, she had to take her child and leave. She has no rights to their house, or most of their money, because they were not technically married. Also, even though he is going to have to pay child support, it''s going to be much more complicated legally to establish paternity and start payments. So for people who think they don''t need the piece of paper, I think that women will often get the short end of the stick in case the relationship ends.

Married couples who have children do get tax breaks however, if you get a bigger standard deduction when you are filing head of household (single with children under the age of 17 that you provide at least 50% of their living expenses). I agree that children are better off emotionally and financially when both parents are involved and in a positive manner.

And yes, depending on state laws (unfortunate for your friend) marriage is a very good asset. And yes, women do get the short of the stick more often then men. Studies have shown that if you are married, no matter if it''s good or not, you will live extra years. This is especially true for the men as they will live longer than a married woman.

I think that if you are going to live together and buy big things together that women would be smart and demand that their name be put on the deeds of the big purchases. Even though that means that she would be held liable for half of the payment/balance or just simply not put money towards things that do not have her name. You still need to be smart about things and have an educated decision making process when you are living together and not married. I would hope that if this happens to anyone that they would seek legal counsel and see what their options are.

I hope for your friend that the credit cards were in his name too!

 

[radiantquest]

i know that for me i didnt want marriage, children, house or any of that. i wanted to live in a condo and have my man there and just be. that is, until i met my husband. i know this is kinda weird, but we started dating on august 8 and by august 22 i knew he was the man i was going to marry. i think it is just about finding the right person at the right time.

 

[isaku5]

Like Irishgrrrl, growing up I never gave much thought to being married; never imagined my very own wedding dress/ ceremony/ FH. The same was true of having children; in fact, I didn''t think I''d ever have any. My friends were doing all of the above and I listened to their fantasies, but felt that none of them were on my wish list.

My mom and dad had a longlasting marriage (46 years), but looking back, I''m not sure they were *right* for each other. Their life seemed mundane somehow. They disagreed about many things, but I overheard only one loud shouting match.

Enter DH (of 45+ years) when I was only 16 years old...A friendship for a few months, then dating for 4 years, a proposal on my 19th birthday with a lovely ring that we had picked out together and finally marriage at almost 21. What was there about him that changed my mind? He was so easy to talk about anything with, was beyond kind trying to make my every wish come true, and there was true love.

Along with being a great hubby to me, he has been the best father any child could hope for to our son and daughter.

The best thing about our marriage aside from the promised fidelity etc. has been our kids and grandkids. I know I''m biased, but I look at all of them at family gatherings and wonder how I got so lucky

Was it smooth sailing during those 45 years? Definitely not, but the only time we hit a glitch that we couldn''t work out ourselves was last year during our almost total reno of our home. The worst features in both our personalities surfaced, and believe me, it was far from attractive.

I sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if I hadn''t married, but I realize that it might have been different, but definitely not better.