Newborn baby trapped alive in toilet drain

[kenny]

OMG! Horrific!

Police are searching for the parents.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/05/27/pkg-gorani-china-baby-in-pipe.cnn.html

Baby boy's foot.

 

[CharmedOne]

Speechless.....

 

[Circe]

There was an article in the NYT last week about the brutality of the one-child policy and the ways it was enforced. I have to wonder if those circumstances contributed, if it was some horrifying accident wrought by a woman trying to give birth in secret at home, what. I can't wrap my mind around it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/opinion/chinas-brutal-one-child-policy.html

 

[JaneSmith]

Ugh. I saw this on the beeb. I was surprised it was a boy. I'm glad he was rescued and is alive. Poor wee thing.

As for the one child policy, I think a two child policy for everyone would be a good thing.

 

[tammy77]

I strongly disagree that anyone should decide how many children I should be allowed to have. I'm currently expecting my third and final child so I am sure that I'm feeling defensive about it. The fact is, my children are all well cared for and fully supported financially by my dh and I. So it's none of anyone else's business IMO.

That said, I have no idea if this baby was accidentally dropped, but I highly doubt it or the mother would have called for help herself immediately. It's disheartening that the value of life is so low in some parts of the country while others suffer painful losses/infertility. Sometimes the world just doesn't make sense.

 

[kenny]

I strongly disagree that anyone should decide how many children I should be allowed to have. I'm currently expecting my third and final child so I am sure that I'm feeling defensive about it. The fact is, my children are all well cared for and fully supported financially by my dh and I. So it's none of anyone else's business IMO.

That said, I have no idea if this baby was accidentally dropped, but I highly doubt it or the mother would have called for help herself immediately. It's disheartening that the value of life is so low in some parts of the country while others suffer painful losses/infertility. Sometimes the world just doesn't make sense.

It might be a rich country/poor country kind of thing ... but now that China is rich they hopefully they will let go of this 1978 policy.

Then again maybe all countries should have a one-child policy till the world population goes down to a sustainable level, like perhaps 1 billion instead of the current 7 billion.

The greenest thing a human can do is not reproduce.
Then your carbon footprint ends after your embalming fluid enters the water table.

If you have kids your carbon footprint likely goes on forever and may eventually become millions of footprints.
My SO's gradmother has over 170 offspring during her life ... not great grandmother, grandmother.
Image in 1000 years how many consumers/polluters she'll be responsible for popping out!
How many future plastic water bottles in landfills or in the belly of whales could be traced back to this one woman?

Yeah a human life may be sacred, but only after it is here, so have fewer or no children.
Saving the planet from destruction strikes me as fairly sacred too.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

 

[sonnyjane]

.

The greenest thing a human can do is not reproduce.
Then your carbon footprint ends after your embalming fluid enters the water table.

If you have kids your carbon footprint likely goes on forever and may eventually become millions of footprints.
My SO's gradmother has over 170 offspring during her life ... not great grandmother, grandmother.
Image in 1000 years how many consumers/polluters she'll be responsible for popping out!
Yeah a human life may be sacred, but only after it is here, so have fewer or no children.
Saving the planet from destruction strikes me as fairly sacred too.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

A recent conservation conference I attended had a brutally honest speaker who said just that - that all the recycling and conservation in the world won't fix our current issues. The only thing we can do is stop reproducing until populations are manageable. We (on earth) physically do not have the resources to sustain life. Even if we use absolutely every bit of energy available - eat every single leaf, grub, snail that exists, we cannot sustain human life, let alone animal or plant life. There are just too many of us. Bottom line? We are effed. Royally! I likely won't be having children for several reasons, but that is one of them certainly.

 

[kenny]

Good for you Sonnyjane.

Again, every human here and now is sacred IMO.
IMHO there should be no guilt for those who already have more than one kid.

Humans must just make fewer new ones.

 

[Circe]

While on the one hand I agree with y'all ... dudes. You know what's not the way to do it? Forcing desperate women into a state of madness where they flush their newborns like waste. Or aborting wanted kids at the third-trimester mark. NOT saying y'all are even vaguely advocating it ... but the Chinese government policies/circumstances which prompted this post are like some bizarrely exaggerated sketch-comedy bit demonstrating the worst possible extreme of a basically sound principle.

You know what drives high birth rates into the ground, over and over and over again? Simply providing women with contraception and education. Most women don't WANT to have more kids than they can feed or, for that matter, bear without endangering their health. Let's all band together for education and resources and a counter-movement to all of the fundamentalist pressure to hew to traditional values which so often damage women and children.

 

[tammy77]

While on the one hand I agree with y'all ... dudes. You know what's not the way to do it? Forcing desperate women into a state of madness where they flush their newborns like waste. Or aborting wanted kids at the third-trimester mark. NOT saying y'all are even vaguely advocating it ... but the Chinese government policies/circumstances which prompted this post are like some bizarrely exaggerated sketch-comedy bit demonstrating the worst possible extreme of a basically sound principle.

You know what drives high birth rates into the ground, over and over and over again? Simply providing women with contraception and education. Most women don't WANT to have more kids than they can feed or, for that matter, bear without endangering their health. Let's all band together for education and resources and a counter-movement to all of the fundamentalist pressure to hew to traditional values which so often damage women and children.

Circe, thank you for being much more eloquent than I ever will be. Your second paragraph especially strikes me.

 

[Monnyjay]

So sad, I saw this on the early morning news and was totally shocked - good thing is the little guy is ok and there is no shortage of
people wanting to adopt and help out financially.

 

[sonnyjane]

Update: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/28/world/asia/china-baby-rescue/index.html?c=mobile-homepage-t

Guess how much I believe her story?

 

[SB621]

Strangly I agree with alot of what you are saying kenny.

Circe - and you somehow manage to type out all my disjointed thoughts into 1 paragraph that makes perfect sense! If I could I would hire you!

 

[Tuckins1]

Poor sweet angel! I wish I could scoop him up and take him home with me!

 

[JaneSmith]

I strongly disagree that anyone should decide how many children I should be allowed to have. I'm currently expecting my third and final child so I am sure that I'm feeling defensive about it. The fact is, my children are all well cared for and fully supported financially by my dh and I. So it's none of anyone else's business IMO.

That said, I have no idea if this baby was accidentally dropped, but I highly doubt it or the mother would have called for help herself immediately. It's disheartening that the value of life is so low in some parts of the country while others suffer painful losses/infertility. Sometimes the world just doesn't make sense.

I knew that my statement would be controversial. I do apologise to you, Tammy, for upsetting you.
How well cared for your children are is not the issue, and you having three children is not the issue.
Gross overpopulation is. Lack of education is. Lack of basic necessities (housing, medicine, food, sanitation, safety) is. Sexism and misogyny is.

There are over seven billion humans on Earth. Here is an up-to-the-minute counter: http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Population Estimates: Year One through 2050 A.D. Source: http://www.ecology.com/population-estimates-year-2050/

Population in millions
Year Lower Estimate Upper Estimate
1 AD 170 400
200 AD 190 256
400 AD 190 206
500 AD 190 206
600 AD 200 206
700 AD 207 210
800 AD 220 224
900 AD 226 240
1000 AD 254 345
1100 AD 301 320
1200 AD 360 450
1300 AD 360 432
1400 AD 350 374
1500 AD 425 540
1600 AD 545 579
1700 AD 600 679
1800 AD 813 1,125
1850 AD 1,128 1,402
1900 AD 1,550 1,762
Begin United Nations and U.S. Census Bureau, International Data
1910 AD 1,750
1920 AD 1,860
1930 AD 2,070
1940 AD 2,300
1950 AD 2,557
1960 AD 3,042
1970 AD 3,712
1980 AD 4,453
1990 AD 5,291
2000 AD 6,094
2010 AD 6,868
2020 AD 7,656
2030 AD 8,321
2040 AD 8,874
2050 AD 9,306

Also keep in mind that modern Homo sapiens have been around for about 200,000 years.



We are going to have to move from a linear scale to a logarithmic scale.

 

[chrono]

Update: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/28/world/asia/china-baby-rescue/index.html?c=mobile-homepage-t

Guess how much I believe her story?

Actually, I believe her story because I've lived in Asia for many years. There is no such thing as sex education and many women do not know much about contraceptives, monthly cycles, reproductive systems and etc depending on where you are in Asia. I don't think this has to anything to do with China's one child policy.

 

[sonnyjane]

Update: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/28/world/asia/china-baby-rescue/index.html?c=mobile-homepage-t

Guess how much I believe her story?

Actually, I believe her story because I've lived in Asia for many years. There is no such thing as sex education and many women do not know much about contraceptives, monthly cycles, reproductive systems and etc depending on where you are in Asia. I don't think this has to anything to do with China's one child policy.

"That day she felt stomachaches," said Jiang Song, the vice director of police. "So she went to the toilet. It was actually close to her due date and the baby just slid out."

Police questioned the woman, who told them that she did not intend for the child to fall into the toilet, according to a local TV channel that was posted on the official police Weibo account.

The police said she tried to retrieve the baby with a stick, then decided to flush the toilet to clear away the blood.

The tenants told CNN that they called authorities. The police say that the mother called her landlord, saying she'd heard a strange sound that seemed like it might be a baby and suggested that the landlord and others come to check."


I guess I have a problem with her delivering the baby, SEEING the baby go down the drain, flushing the toilet to try to "clean up", then calling for help saying she heard a "strange sound" that "might be a baby". You know damn well it's a baby, you just put it there!

 

[chrono]

I must have read a different version; it must have been a cleaned up one. Desperation and shame can make people say and do very wrong actions. Coupled with little to no resources nor support, this the result. I'm not saying what she did is right, only that I feel her desperation. Remember that this is a third world country with very different values.

 

[NTave]

A little off topic, but in my line of work I see a lot of pregnancies/births. The ones having more than 2 or 3 kids are not the middle class or wealthy..more than three is just about always poor families..the ones who can't afford the ones they already have..it kills me to see that, because if that's what I see, it's happening all over the country, and these children need resources..education, special education, food, clothing, basics..and these poor children will become the majority of the population here in the US, bc anyone that gets a decent paycheck can't afford multiple children with the cost of daycare, food, housing and college. It's my soapbox, but we are growing fewer children with opportunities to succeed, and more children that will need public assistance of some sort through their childhoods and probably their lives due to circumstance. There isn't any balance, and it's going to be an unsurpassed problem..

 

[Tuckins1]

A little off topic, but in my line of work I see a lot of pregnancies/births. The ones having more than 2 or 3 kids are not the middle class or wealthy..more than three is just about always poor families..the ones who can't afford the ones they already have..it kills me to see that, because if that's what I see, it's happening all over the country, and these children need resources..education, special education, food, clothing, basics..and these poor children will become the majority of the population here in the US, bc anyone that gets a decent paycheck can't afford multiple children with the cost of daycare, food, housing and college. It's my soapbox, but we are growing fewer children with opportunities to succeed, and more children that will need public assistance of some sort through their childhoods and probably their lives due to circumstance. There isn't any balance, and it's going to be an unsurpassed problem..

I'm a special ed teacher in an urban area, and I absolutely agree with you. It's terribly sad to see the same families, year after year, popping out more kids, when they cannot properly feed or clothe the ones they already have... It is a serious problem and it will only get worse!