Needlessly cruel, or justified in the pursuit of herd immunity to end pandemic sooner?

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Thanks for this. The article seems…vague

It is. I only know about it in depth BC I am a city worker and it applies to me. Anyone without this death benefit would still get their standard in service death benefit, no one is being left out to dry. I'm not sure about every union but the department of education benefit is 3x your annual salary if you die while in service.

 

[seaurchin]

I don't think taking away the death benefit to survivors would motivate many people to get vaccinated who aren't already motivated by the possibility of dying from Covid in itself.

I think there are a lot of other things that could be done that are likely to have more impact. For ex. having to show your vaccination card to enter a restaurant, store, plane or other place where people gather. The police giving tickets to people who are out in public without masks on, employers required to conduct weekly testing on employees who aren't vaccinated and etc.

In other words, things that severely inconvenience the one who doesn't want to get vaccinated rather than allow them to fully participate in life while putting others at risk. I'd also be okay with offering a gift card or cash to the vaccine-reluctant.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I don't think taking away the death benefit to survivors would motivate many people to get vaccinated who aren't already motivated by the possibility of dying from Covid in itself.

I think there are a lot of other things that could be done that are likely to have more impact. For ex. having to show your vaccination card to enter a restaurant, store, plane or other place where people gather. The police giving tickets to people who are out in public without masks on, employers required to conduct weekly testing on employees who aren't vaccinated and etc.

In other words, things that severely inconvenience the one who doesn't want to get vaccinated rather than allow them to fully participate in life while putting others at risk. I'd also be okay with offering a gift card or cash to the vaccine-reluctant.

They do this too, $100 per vaccine, no entry into restaurants or most indoor things in NYC without vaccine card.

 

[Lookinagain]

I'd also be okay with offering a gift card or cash to the vaccine-reluctant.

I think many states have tried this in one form or another. Gift cards, college scholarships, free food, sports tickets, entrance into million dollar lotteries, etc. Some have been more successful than others.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

having to show your vaccination card to enter a restaurant, store, plane or other place where people gather. The police giving tickets to people who are out in public without masks on, employers required to conduct weekly testing on employees who aren't vaccinated and etc.

All if the above measures are in place here in France. ( One has, ATM, the possibility to get tested every 2 days if not vaccinated to obtain access to all aforementioned activities). Vaccination rate for a population over twelve y/o is at 86.9%, ICU beds at 23 % capacity ATM.
Those measures DO work.
The vaccination card is in the form of a QR code that's either on paper or for most people on their phones . It is valid Europe wide.

 

[Bron357]

It’s cruel and it’s tricky.
We live as a Society and therefore most rules and restrictions are designed for the benefit of the “whole”.
Death benefits payments for people do not appear as manna from heaven. The money comes from everyone else’s contributions. Like taxes, everyone (well that the premise) pays in and then the collective amount is spread out to pay for things like roads, bridges, schooling, health etc.
In the world of insurance there are people who can’t be insured, people whose premiums will be a lot more and certain activities and events that won’t be covered.
If I buy a house on a flood plain, I will have trouble getting insurance because there is an unacceptable risk I’ll get flooded and therefore make a claim.
If I buy life insurance and die by suicide, generally that isnt covered if the policy is under 13 months old. Likewise if I’m a smoker, I will not only pay higher premiums, I might well be excluded to coverage if my death is smoking related. There are also activities that get excluded from accidental death like sky diving, being an astronaut. going into a war zone. It’s all to do with the risk.
If you are drunk when you crash your car, your insurance company won’t pay you for your car. If you leave your front door wide open and someone goes in and steals stuff, your insurance company won’t pay you for your losses.
So while it seems “unfair” to make people have a vaccination to benefit from a death benefit provision it’s just how it has to work.
Do you have insurance for anything?
You have insured your car against damage. Your premiums are $3,000 a year. If the insurance company was to offer coverage to anyone irrespective of their behaviour or activity being contributory to the loss, your premiums are now $15,000 a year. Because those claim payments come from everyone else’s insurance premium payments.
you ok with that?
People most certainly have the right to not be vaccinated but living in a society comes with obligations. It’s certainly not the families fault that Dad didnt get a vaccine and died of Covid but on the other hand is it fair for everyone else to contribute to a payment that could have been avoided? The increase in premiums due to having to cover avoidable Covid deaths had a detrimental financial effect on everyone else in the group. It means you and your family don’t get holidays anymore, you have to work extra hours to cover the reduced pay you receive, maybe your kids don’t get music lessons or to participate in sport.
You ok with that?

 

[Petalouda]

We have indeed. Though I cannot help wonder if as a community we truly ever owned this responsibility to help and protect others. This pandemic has demonstrated, IMO, how many do not care about the well being of others. In a way it seems that there are more than a small amount of people who feel it is every man, woman and child for themselves. Very disappointing and in fact, tragic on many levels.

It is up to each individual to make an educated decision. Once we are adults that responsibility is ours. No one else's. I am so tired of hearing the excuses time after time. No, take responsibility. Take ownership for your actions. For better or worse. Stop blaming others for your (in)action. Do the right thing. Do the responsible thing. Accurate info is out there. It is your responsibility to get that info and stop listening to those who try to convince you otherwise. So many ridiculous myths are being spread. You (the general you) are an adult and it is up to you to read the facts and do the right thing. The facts are out there for everyone.

And 100% masks (and vaccines) should be mandated. The general population cannot be trusted to do the right thing. This has been demonstrated over and over and over.

You’ve put in words how I feel. I’m not sure we had a strong community to begin with. I’m noticing even in my generation ( older millennial) pre-pandemic, communication and manners have gone by the wayside.

I’ve been telling my friends the generation growing up in this pandemic gives me hope the future. They’ve learned from a young age to sacrifice ( wear masks, wash hands, etc) for the greater good and I hope that sense of community comes back with them.

 

[missy]

You’ve put in words how I feel. I’m not sure we had a strong community to begin with. I’m noticing even in my generation ( older millennial) pre-pandemic, communication and manners have gone by the wayside.

I’ve been telling my friends the generation growing up in this pandemic gives me hope the future. They’ve learned from a young age to sacrifice ( wear masks, wash hands, etc) for the greater good and I hope that sense of community comes back with them.

I do have hope for the future generations. I see my sweet young nieces. Who are kind, thoughtful, considerate and compassionate. And I have hope. We won't be here to see the real changes but in my gut I know there will either be dramatic changes or the human race will cease to exist. One way or another there will be change.

 

[missy]

People most certainly have the right to not be vaccinated

I don't agree with this statement. If this were the prevailing thought during smallpox we might not be here today. I do not think people have the right to not get vaccinated (without a valid medical condition contraindicating vaccination). IMO.
Do what you want as long as it doesn't affect everyone else negatively. That is my philosophy. Live and let live as long as you are not causing harm to others. Your rights end when they infringe upon the well being of others'. Period. IMO.

 

[kenny]

I don't agree with this statement. If this were the prevailing thought during smallpox we might not be here today. I do not think people have the right to not get vaccinated (without a valid medical condition contraindicating vaccination). IMO.
Do what you want as long as it doesn't affect everyone else negatively. That is my philosophy. Live and let live as long as you are not causing harm to others. Your rights end when they infringe upon the well being of others'. Period. IMO.

+ 1000

Your right to swing your arm ends at my nose.

 

[telephone89]

IMO, paying out $500k for "accidental death" does NOT apply if you don't take steps to reduce this accident. If a construction worker decided he knew better than the safety team and didnt wear a harness and fell to his death, I don't think he should get a pay out. Does shit still happen even with safety precautions? Yes, hence why the policy/pay out makes sense. But I'm struggling to understand why people think companies should HAVE to pay out this policy for a willful (willfully ignorant...) decision of their worker.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi.

Since I actually read the article, the death benefit of 500,000 has always been for a job related accident or illness. Initially it was assumed an employee caught covid on the job. The policy was changed when the vaccine became available and no one had to catch this virus on the job if they were vaccinated.

There is another policy for life insurance benefits where diabetes, lung cancer and other illnesses are covered for the employees. Covid is no longer treated as happening on the job.

Why is this cruel" Covid no longer, with the advent of the vaccine fits in this category. They will get the normal Life insurance benefit.

Annette.