need some basic help please ...

[scarleta]

After reading your comments and suggestion I still have a question on which stone is a better choice for me and the price I should expect to pay...

1st one is " D" color 1.47Car VS1 cut is very good (has GIA report)
depth is 61 table is 58 crown angle is 35.5 crown height is 15% pavilion angle is 41.2 pavilion depth is 43.5 star lenght ( whatever this means) 55 lower half is 80 gridle is thin to mediun faceted cutlet none.
polish good symmetry very good fluorescence faint...
2nd one has no gia or ags but has been appraised by a gia graduate gemologist . I am told it has been used before and I can get a better price...
Clarity is vvs2 color is F G ( could be lower cause it has a tint of color visible)
cut good carat is 2.17
I am wondering if you coud help me out by evalutating these for me and give an idea of what a good price would be on both?
Thanks so much for all your help .

 

[belle]

hey scarleta

welcome to ps.

you can enter your information in the ''pricescope your diamond'' search box above to find similar diamonds and get an idea on price.

 

[ChooChoo]

Keep looking.

The first stone is not very well cut based on the numbers you gave. The second stone is probably cut even worse ("good" = meaningless), and doesn''t have a GIA or AGS certificate to boot. Everyone on this board will tell you to stay away from uncertified stones. GIA graduate gemologist appraisals are no substitute for a certificate.

If you tell us your budget and your priorities, we can help you find an excellent stone. These aren''t it.

 

[scarleta]

Date: 2/25/2006 10:47:30 PM
Author: ChooChoo
Keep looking.

The first stone is not very well cut based on the numbers you gave. The second stone is probably cut even worse (''good'' = meaningless), and doesn''t have a GIA or AGS certificate to boot. Everyone on this board will tell you to stay away from uncertified stones. GIA graduate gemologist appraisals are no substitute for a certificate.

If you tell us your budget and your priorities, we can help you find an excellent stone. These aren''t it.

thanks so much for your help... Can you please let me know what is the (worse ) problem with the cut on the 1st stone? as per the numbers given... Thanks again..

 

[ChooChoo]

Sure - there is a really useful tool that people on this forum use to rule out poor performers.

https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

You just plug in the numbers. The first stone scores 4.4, which is considered good only if price is your only criteria, not if you''re looking for a well-cut stone. It''s not awful, but if you see it next to an ideal cut stone, which score generally between 0 and 2.0 on that adviser, you''ll see a big difference in sparkliness. It will still be pretty because it''s a diamond, but it won''t hold a candle to a well-cut stone. I''ll post a link to a well-cut stone below with some numbers to plug into the tool so you can see the difference.

Have you seen these stones in person?

 

[ChooChoo]

Now THIS is a well-cut stone:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_80ct_d_vs2_h%26a.htm

Here are its numbers:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/Diamonds2005/1834/sarin.jpg

When you plug them into the cut adviser, it''s a 1.6 - scores Excellent (the best possible) on all of the "sparkliness criteria", and "very good" on spread (which basically measures how big it looks for the weight it is - this isn''t the most important criteria in my opinion).

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/25/2006 11:10:14 PM
Author: scarleta

Date: 2/25/2006 10:47:30 PM
Author: ChooChoo
Keep looking.

The first stone is not very well cut based on the numbers you gave. The second stone is probably cut even worse (''good'' = meaningless), and doesn''t have a GIA or AGS certificate to boot. Everyone on this board will tell you to stay away from uncertified stones. GIA graduate gemologist appraisals are no substitute for a certificate.

If you tell us your budget and your priorities, we can help you find an excellent stone. These aren''t it.

thanks so much for your help... Can you please let me know what is the (worse ) problem with the cut on the 1st stone? as per the numbers given... Thanks again..

scarleta
this is what we call steep and deep combo,which is no longer a 0 cut stone today.

 

[ChooChoo]

I would learn a lot more about diamonds before you buy one... here''s a good place to start:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/hearts_and_arrows.htm

That site is in general very educational - definitely spend some time looking at it.

Of course, if you want to do less work, there are a lot of people on this board who have some free time on their hands who will recommend some diamonds to start looking at. Everyone who hangs out here is a cut fanatic, so all of the diamonds you''ll see recommended will be ideal or superideal cuts.

Jewelers may use terms like "very good" or "good" or "premium", but I doubt too many people on this board would steer you in that direction because most of us own ideals and have seen how much they outperform all the other diamonds out there. I have had people ask me if my diamond, which is just a normal ideal cut (as opposed to branded ones like Eightstar or Lazare Kaplan), was some kind of special cut because it''s so firey and sparkly. But my diamond is just what any well-cut round diamond SHOULD look like - but sadly, what diamonds usually DON''T look like because jewelers sell what they have on hand and call it "very good".

 

[scarleta]

thanks yes I have seen both of these stones ( the color of the 2nd one is not as good ) The 1st stone does not look as big for its carat weight with my limited experience....Perhaps one gets a better deal because of the cut I am not sure?

 

[ChooChoo]

Do you get a discount because the cut is not ideal? Maybe. Is it a good deal? Not really, because I wouldn''t buy it anyway. And yes, that cut will look small for its carat weight (you have a good eye!) because it''s steep and deep, as Dancing Fire said. A stone that''s too deep will have a diameter that''s too small for its carat weight.

Now, was it a good deal? Let''s find out. Here is an ideal cut 1.58 carat D VS2:
http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=3463901

Keep in mind it should also cost more than the one you saw not only because it''s an ideal cut but also because it''s more than a carat and a half. How was the price on yours compared to $16,400?

 

[ChooChoo]

Here is a slightly smaller D VS2 non-ideal diamond:
http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=8340036

It costs $12.5K. Again, how does the price you were quoted compare?

 

[scarleta]

thanks again.I have yet to find out prices. I did see these stones and will find out on Monday the cost. The stones you are recommending look good on paper , but where do I find depth, table, crown height and pavillion angle and depth?

 

[ChooChoo]

I just picked those as examples, but if these stones really do fit your criteria, the vendor can get you the additional information (it''s not usually included on the GIA certificate, so they have to put it into a machine). As I said before, though, I wouldn''t even bother with a non-ideal cut, so I only included the second stone as a price reference for the non-ideal that the seller was showing you (it had similar table/depth too). If budget is an issue for an ideal-cut D VS2, drop the color down to E or F and you most likely won''t see a difference in color - but don''t sacrifice cut quality to get a D, it might be white but it won''t be lively.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/25/2006 11:10:14 PM
Author: scarleta

Can you please let me know what is the (worse ) problem with the cut on the 1st stone?

It is cut too deep, and it will look darker than the best ones out there.

Ironically, those better proportions are also included in the range of GIA's top cut grade, but since those tend to waste more diamond weight to cut... I wonder if any can be found with a GIA report.

As far as I know... I am no expert.




There has always been a premium on AGS0 graded diamonds, and for a reason... cut shows more regardless of the other grades, and on side by side comparison, one color or clarity grade difference doesn't have much to show for itself by comparison. I would think sellers bet on buyers accepting the trade-off when showed great and so-so cut choices side by side. Whenever that happens. At least, you could ask for that sort of comparison. It shouldn't cost you anything (well, it would cost the seller something - to bring in stones

).

Anyway, you could 'fish' for a odd GIA graded diamond with better proportions. Like the 1.6cts listed below.


The one you posted is lucky to have the weight right under 1.5 cts: it misses a nice price jump at 1.5. And this is precisely why there aren't too many diamonds available between 1.3 and 1.5cts exactly.

If I were to look for a competing choice with better proportions, I would look at least at D-E/VS2-Si1. Between 1.3 and 1.49cts... size would vary more with cut than weight in such a small interval.

My 2c.



I don't know what your quote was for the D/VS, but it looks like similar can be had for about 12k give or take. I doubt 2 cts G/VS could be offered for the same money. More likely I-J/SI.. because prices shoot up with size quite a bit. No wonder you saw some color difference. There may be no visual difference in clarity down to SI1 - there are more eye clean Si1s than not and that could just be one such stone.

As for options... there's never a crowd right under 1.5 cts, barely one 1.3cts F-VS1 came up below 12k. I wonder if it is not about as large as the first choice you have posted, because of cut. Another 1.5cts F-Si1 happens for 1k more. It is slightly larger if anything. Both are from the sam eshow - these guys happen to have allot more diamonds on the list, so that is somewhat predictable by rough statistics alone, no dark secret.

The awaited E/Si1 just refused to happen below 1.5cts, but there is one listed for 13k, 1.6cts LINK
The Sarin report sounds funny but the IdealScope image looks very, very nice and as far as I know that test is allot more precise. If the price sounds good, and JamesAllen the shop also sounds good to you - I would not give up on this fellow, but rather ask them to check the numbers - the ones on the Sarin slip. I know there was some problem with their Sarin and these guys have been super bussy lately setting up some amazing graphics

(these) among other things.


Hope some of this helps