Need for additional independent appraisers?

[Asschman]

This post is primarily directed at those people who have bought stones from White Flash--since they provide you with a sarin analysis, idealscope, and photos of the diamond, allow you to discuss the stone with their in-house appraiser, and then ship it to an independent appraiser in Texas prior to sending it to you, is there a point in having another appraiser then take a look at it?

I bring this up because I recall some people have sent their stones to appraisers like Martin Fuller or Dave Atlas, and I am not sure I see the advantage in doing so? Can anyone enlighten me?

For the record, I understand these and other appraisers are top notch, so I am by no means denigrating their skill, just want to know if there is a valid reason for adding another set of eyes to the stone selection process.

Asschman

 

[Nicrez]

Every set of eyes is important in viewing and grading a stone. New eyes, sometimes new observations and different opinions. Both a blessing and a curse.

Labs like GIA actually have at least 3 (sometimes more) people grade a stone blindly, just to get a consensus on a grade for a stone. That means that if you are buying a stone, it is always just good practice to have more than one pair of eyes grading that stone. Although many vendors online have appraisers with their GG in their store, they may also highlight or downplay certain parts of that stone to make it more salable. It''s not an offensive comment, just a realistic one.

A INDEPENDANT appraiser has no stake in the selling of that stone (usually) so he will give you an objective view into the inclusions, color, fluorescence and characteristics that that stone has, regardless of it being a popular stone or unpopular one. If you are comfortable spending your money on a stone without getting it further analyzed, then go for it, but some people are not as trustworthy as PS vendors, so they find it imperative.

I didn''t get an independant appraisal done on my stone, and still have just my jeweler''s appraisal whom we bought it from. Basically, I liked the stone for what it was, and that was that.

 

[windowshopper]

do not waste your money! if you have all the numbers and its from someone reputable like BN or Wf or DCD --you get it and you like it or not-------------in my opinion appraisals of this variety are a waste

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 2/8/2005 6

3:56 PM
Author:Asschman
This post is primarily directed at those people who have bought stones from White Flash--since they provide you with a sarin analysis, idealscope, and photos of the diamond, allow you to discuss the stone with their in-house appraiser, and then ship it to an independent appraiser in Texas prior to sending it to you, is there a point in having another appraiser then take a look at it?

I bring this up because I recall some people have sent their stones to appraisers like Martin Fuller or Dave Atlas, and I am not sure I see the advantage in doing so? Can anyone enlighten me?

For the record, I understand these and other appraisers are top notch, so I am by no means denigrating their skill, just want to know if there is a valid reason for adding another set of eyes to the stone selection process.

Asschman

this is not rocket science....................

 

[Dropdown3]

I had intentions of using Martin Fuller''s services, but instead bought from White Flash where the diamond is visually checked, Sarin''d, and LightScope''d prior to shipping to the consumer. I wouldn''t buy a diamond from anyone I couldn''t trust, and particularly I liked Josh from DCD and Bob from WF. In the end, WF got my business because they do not drop ship diamonds. Meaning, they see the diamond before you do.

So no. Buy from a reputable dealer and save your money is my humble opinion.

Chuck

 

[JohnQuixote]

One clarification, since WF is the vendor in question:  The Free Verification included in our package is done by a GG who is not in our store.  This is an appraiser of preference in Houston who is independent of us.  It is a valid appraisal for insurance purposes.

That said, customers do sometimes opt to have yet another appraiser (of their hire) give their purchase an evaluation as well.

 

[Mara]

I wanted to chime in here and say YES you should have any diamond you purchase appraised by an independent source. That said, I probably will not do that with my next diamond purchase, however I have done it with my previous 3 purchases.

First off, even if the vendor you work with is top of the line trustworthy, it still makes sense to pay another $100 or so to have someone who is not affiliated with any vendor tell you what they think of your stone. Call it external validation if you will. But it's also extra peace of mind in a first or second transaction with a vendor to ensure that yes no mistakes were made, and that all is as it should be. I don't see it as insulting to any vendor...and hopefully they would not take it that way. For me it was just necessary to get that confirmation with the first couple of purchases.

That said, I have done it in the last 3 transactions, and I figure my next one (from a vendor I have purchased with 2ce in the past) won't really merit a whole new appraisal as I would not intend to keep the stone longer than a year before I upgrade again. Also, my eyes are good enough at this point to validate a stone when I get it...aka pick out inclusions, determine a color grade based upon previous experience. If I was still very green and hadn't seen any diamonds, I would not know what to look for possibly. But I feel pretty confident that I can deal with my next purchase without involving the appraiser to the tune of another $150 again. However, I love our appraiser and would love to give her business again at some point in the future, maybe on my last upgrade when I know I am keeping that stone for good.

But for a first time purchase and maybe a second, YES I would definitely check out the stone just because, you may not need to get the full on workup, but at least have someone independent take a look at it. My two cents.

Edited to add: If you had the vendor ship the stone to an independent appraiser of your choosing already during the transaction, then no I would not see the need to get another entire appraisal upon arrival of the stone/ring to you. But if it was one of their choosing, yes I would get a confirmation on your end from an independent.

 

[oldminer]

Some peolpe really need independent appraisals on their purchase and others don't. Some people are sort of in-the-middle and while they could use some help, they don't believe they want an expensive expert to guide them. We offer full appraisal and consulting serivces to those who want us to help them. We offer less intensive alternatives for those who have specific, limited, issues that need resolution, and we are glad to advise expert consumers who might just have a learning question that we can easily respond to.

My approach for the past 7+ years of my involvement with the Internet came from my son who told me that this was a place where people SHARED and interconnected, the WEB. I have used his youthfu knowledge as my business philosophy in all matters on the Internet, and sure enough, it has proved a great model. I have made friends, made a few bucks, and made a lot of consumers less afraid of becoming buyers. Not everyone requires the full treatment, but few consumers really know enough to do the entire job properly on the first or even second go around. In any way we can, we want to help people succeed in their task of getting a great diamond, or other gemstone or piece of jewelry, at a fair price and with full disclosure.

 

[Rebemdee]

I humble myself before thee, as I have two, no make it THREE stupid questions!

1. If I''m happy with my ring, have the appraisal stuff from Blue Nile, and don''t plan on doing anything different with the ring, should I have it appraised?
2. Do the insurance companies tend to accept appraisals from the vendor who sold the diamond, or does it need to be independent? I have USAA and will be calling them soon!
3. Does the diamond have to come out of the setting for the appraisal?


Thanks!

Reb

 

[windowshopper]

1-no dont do anything
2-yes-even just a bill of sale
3-no

 

[Mara]

Unfortunately that last Q is not as easy as just saying a No.

If you want a full-on whole-nine-yards appraisal done which includes the diamond then it would be best if the diamond is unset. That is really the only way to check ALL the specifics on the stone whereas when it is set, you can't check the angles quite so accurately etc.

But if you just want a 'hey is this stone matching the cert for the most part, and does the ring look good' type of quickie confirmation, my appraiser had noted it can be left in the setting.

But really you should ask your appraiser what they think as well and what types of appraisal/confirmation options they have.

As you noted though, if you don't really mind about having one or not having one, why not just get more of the confirmation appraisal (aka local Willow Glen Jewelers will take a ring/diamond and check it out against cert and confirm it looks as is etc) for about $50-75 whereas a full on appraisal from my gal in Walnut Creek is $150 for an hour.

 

[Rebemdee]

Mara:

Thank you! I was actually going to stop by Joe Escobar tomorrow and have the ring eyeballed. I got it from Blue Nile. I am totally willing to pay them just to make sure it''s fine, so I feel comfortable as the 30 day return draws to a close, but Joe Escobar didn''t ask for payment, it''s a free service. I could ask them for a match on the stone, and I''m happy to pay for that. Would you pick Willow Glen above Joe Escobar?

Reb

 

[Rebemdee]

And sorry to hijack the thread...it''s just so rare to find somebody in the area for help with B&M stores!

 

[Mara]

If JE is willing to do it for free and you just want the basic confirmation on the stone, then by all means go there. If you don''t like what they tell you, you can always go to WG.

I use WG because they are up the street from us and I really love their little store. They also resized my ring for free, clean it for free, etc and I have never purchased from them (though like my hubby says, they WANT me to), and they carry Eightstars which are fun to play with as well. I wouldn''t mind getting a small pendant 8* from them at some point in the future. Oh and they let my bring my dog in...hehe.

I have been to JE and really love their setting selection and have been in there a time or two trying on setting after setting with the salesgal''s help...I highly recommend both stores from my experiences so don''t think you can go wrong.

 

[Rebemdee]

I think I''m going to stop by JE, because they have a milgrain diamond platinum band that JE designed that I want to look at. I love the etoile band with the offset diamonds, and think that''s what I''m going to arm twist my fiancee into getting me, but he loves milgrain, so in the interest of keeping the peace, I''m going to look at it so we MIGHT have matching bands.

Thanks for the great advice!

 

[Asschman]

thanks to all for your feedback. I posted this right before I left work last night, so was happy to see your responses this morning. I am undecided whether to use an independent appraiser around here (Washington, DC), but several things have me leaning toward not using one:

1. the quality and repuation of the vendor I am dealing with, and the excellent information and in-house examinations they provide
2. their use of an appraiser independent of them
3. confidence that the knowledge I have gained from the PS community has improved my decision-making sufficiently
4. the stone characteristics--ie I would think if the stone was borderline colorless (like G,H,I) or needed to be verified eye-clean (if an SI1/2), then it would make sense to have another appraiser check it out.

will keep you posted on how it turns out

Asschman

 

[Lord Summerisle]

As another of WF customers... thought i would at my tuppence..

Since I am in another continent to the vendor, and its my first purchase, and to keep the other half reasurred, i felt it was right to send it over to an appraiser i had choosen for verfication of what i had bought.

So for me it was a piece of mind thing. I didnt really have much doubt that the stone i was buying wasnt as discribed, but thought it prudent to have it checked out before it left the country.

Added a day or 2 to the process, but was worth it. I had someone other than a sales (wo)man comfirm it twas a sparkley stone and looked great.

Tis your money, spend it as u see fit.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 2/8/2005 7:47:38 PM
Author: windowshopper
do not waste your money! if you have all the numbers and its from someone reputable like BN or Wf or DCD --you get it and you like it or not-------------in my opinion appraisals of this variety are a waste

Windowshopper,

In many cases, I agree with this. The issue at hand is deciding what is your purpose in seeking out an appraisal. Insurance companies will generally accept anything that protects their interests. Their standards are generally quite low. As a consumer, your objectives may or may not be the same as those of the company.

The verification reports supplied by WF are intended to confirm that the stone you are receiving is the same one that is described in the accompanying lab report. Some people find this opinion useful and if it answers your only question then I agree, you are wasting your money to hire a pro.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[bar01]

I bought from WF and used a great independent appraiser - Richard Sherwood. Although I was fairly confident about the diamonds (ACA''s and AGS certs), but there was a Sapphire involved and a custom made setting which I wanted checked out completely. Also the verification report that came with the WF diamonds was inflated a little. Richards report was extensive, informative, fun, and gave realistic Internet and B&M replacement costs so I would not over insure.

In short I am hooked on good independent appraisals and recommend them.





P.S. let me also mention that I have also used another PS listed appraiser (PGS) that I would not recommend. I guess there are good ones and bad ones.