Need Advice on Purchase

[mcgong]

Hello All,

I''m new to this forum. I have been finding it very helpful in my search for a stone. Here is my story or delima...


I bought a stone last Friday with an EGL (Antwerp). I wish I knew about the whole international and USA EGL beforehand. The cert. listed the diamond with the following specs.

Round Brilliant
Ideal Cut
2.29 Carat
VVS1
F color
Table 57%
Depth 62%
Girdle Thinkness: Medium
Polish/Sym: Ex/Ex
Flour: none

I got this for 19K OTD including the platnum setting.

Ok, so I wanted to get it recertified again and took it to EGL USA in Los Angeles. The new cert. says that it is...

2.29 carat
Ideal Plus Cut
VS1
H Color
Sym: VG
Polish: Ex
Table: 58%
Depth: 62.2%
Thin the medium Faceted
Flour: none

So it dropped two levels in clarity and color. I figured it would drop but I didn''t think it would drop two levels, maybe one at the most.

Here is the kicker...I had the lady write down for me that if I got it recertified and it didn''t match the old cert. that I cold get all my money back. So I called her up and and she agreed to give all my money back, but I still have to eat the 300 dollars I fronted to get the thing recertified. I told her I like the diamond still but not willing to pay19K for it. She said that I was still getting a good deal and didn''t want to come down on the price, but she will think about it and let me know today.

My question is...is 19K still a good price for that diamond, if not, what should I ask the new price be. I found two places where I could get a 2.04 carat, Ideal cut, VS2, H color for 10.5K (EGL Cert). I am not sure right now whether I should still take the daimond, even if she doesn''t budge on the price. Or just take the money and find another place and go through the whole process again of getting the diamond certified and everything.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Mike

 

[belle]

wow..2 grades difference between the antwerp and usa labs even..that is quite a difference! keep in mind too that egl may even be a grade different than gia. i.e., this stone could be graded ''i'' ''si1'' by gia standards (though i would not put any more $$ forward to find out!) if you do a search above using the ''pricescope your diamond'' feature, you will find several stones available in that size range that are graded by gia to be i/si1 for much less. i would keep looking.

 

[strmrdr]

What belle said.
Good advice.

 

[JC]

The retailer most likely feels as though it is a good price simply because a GIA graded equivalent would cost 25K or more. That is the problem with EGL grades. You never know how accurate they are. In my opinion, if a customer wants an accurate grade when considering round brilliant diamonds than the best bet is to make sure that you are buying a diamond that has been graded by GIA or AGS. It looks like you still have a nice diamond though. You are also getting it for thousands cheaper than a siimilar GIA or AGS graded diamond would cost. So I would say at this point it simply comes down to preference. Do you want a nice stone at a great price or an accurately graded diamond that carries a higher premium?

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 9/29/2005 12:38:45 PM
Author: Josh@JA
The retailer most likely feels as though it is a good price simply because a GIA graded equivalent would cost 25K or more. That is the problem with EGL grades. You never know how accurate they are. In my opinion, if a customer wants an accurate grade when considering round brilliant diamonds than the best bet is to make sure that you are buying a diamond that has been graded by GIA or AGS. It looks like you still have a nice diamond though. You are also getting it for thousands cheaper than a siimilar GIA or AGS graded diamond would cost. So I would say at this point it simply comes down to preference. Do you want a nice stone at a great price or an accurately graded diamond that carries a higher premium?

Josh,

While initially refreshing, after finishing your thought, there''s no way around your having talked out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[mahende]

I just recently looked at a diamond that was certified by EGL (Antwerp)

1.51
F
VS2

I took it to another appraiser, who said that it was.....

I
SI1
very bad symmetry
(It should be mentioned that he then tried to sell me one of his diamonds)

I then took the stone back and told the jeweler what I found out......It made the jeweler so mad he sent it off to EGL New York to have it looked at and it came back
Calrity: SI1
Color: G
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Cutlet: None
Fluor: Light

So.......I guess the moral of the story is definitely stay away from EGL (Antwerp) and just be extremly careful with EGL USA.

 

[mcgong]

Thanks everyone for responding....anyone else with some advice?

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/29/2005 11:29:32 AM
Author:mcgong

...Or just take the money and find another place and go through the whole process again of getting the diamond certified and everything.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Mike

This sentence pinged my radar.

I would like to mention that if you limit your search to diamonds that have been graded by the AGS or GIA you won't have to worry about re-grading to determine what it 'really' is by comparison.

If you are limited to live diamond graded elsewhere, and are not considering a purchase from an internet or long-distance vendor, I would offer this suggestion as someone who has been on both sides of the counter: If you're set on having a diamond verified, discuss it with the seller. If the merchant assures you that his non-GIA/AGS diamond would be equivalent to a GIA (X,X) get that in writing. Then ask the merchant to send it to GIA for grading, with the assurance that if it comes back graded (X,X) as promised you will meet his asking price and pay for the grading as well. If it does not come back as he predicted, tell him that he will pay for the grading and perhaps you will consider another price.

This brings me back to my first thought which was, if it's important to you, it's easiest to stick with AGS or GIA.

Just my 2 cents (which will be worth 2.03 cents soon, as rough prices increase)

 

[JC]

Ira,

Please forgive me, but I've read your comment/statement more than once and I still don't understand your point or what you are attempting to say. Can you be more specific? If its regarding my post/reply to mcgong I feel as though my opinion was not only clear but valid as well. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[valeria101]

No matter what paper it receives, the diamond is not going to change. And how prices correlate with lwho the grading lab is, you have experiemnted on these more than most already.

By now it may be cleat than F-G, VS2-Si1 are not that bad after all, if you selected one based on looks in the first place.

If along the process you got frustrated with the lack of easily-detectable visual difference between grades, ok - I can surely understand that. It is frustrating !

IMO, as usual.

I am not sure it is worth drawing the lottery in the form of EGL graded diamonds hoping that one set of grades will return confirmed by GIA at 2/3 of the cost of an already GIA certified diamond. The sellers would have known this already, I''d bet.

 

[Regular Guy]

Josh,

Just (also) meaning that I''m sympathetic to what Belle, Storm, JohnQ, and where I thought you started to go.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/29/2005 1:21:29 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 9/29/2005 12:38:45 PM
Author: Josh@JA
The retailer most likely feels as though it is a good price simply because a GIA graded equivalent would cost 25K or more. That is the problem with EGL grades. You never know how accurate they are. In my opinion, if a customer wants an accurate grade when considering round brilliant diamonds than the best bet is to make sure that you are buying a diamond that has been graded by GIA or AGS. It looks like you still have a nice diamond though. You are also getting it for thousands cheaper than a siimilar GIA or AGS graded diamond would cost. So I would say at this point it simply comes down to preference. Do you want a nice stone at a great price or an accurately graded diamond that carries a higher premium?

Josh,

While initially refreshing, after finishing your thought, there''s no way around your having talked out of both sides of your mouth.

I have to say I agree with Josh....I don''t see where he''s "talking out of both sides of his mouth" at all, Ira. Josh is sayng that this stone''s status as a potential selection really depends on what MC''s priorities are.

Josh said:
--EGL grades are notorious for being inaccurate, so if you care about grading accuracy, stick to GIA/AGS.
--If you care more about value for the money, this stone still might be a good pick because it doesn''t carry the premium that GIA/AGS stones carry.

Where is the discrepancy? Seems pretty straightforward to me. The poster said his question was "knowing that this stone would grade at better labs as an H, VS, is it still worth 19K?"

 

[mcgong]

Lots of great info everyone, but my question is still, is the diamond worth that much still. She offered to come down a little. New price now is 18.5K including setting. I have been finding similar diamonds on the web that cost much more than this. Any thoughts?

 

[belle]

the bottom line is, if you like the stone..get it. the price is reasonable.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/30/2005 2:34:55 PM
Author: mcgong
Lots of great info everyone, but my question is still, is the diamond worth that much still. She offered to come down a little. New price now is 18.5K including setting. I have been finding similar diamonds on the web that cost much more than this. Any thoughts?

Other diamonds near that size, color and clarity graded by EGL USA are selling for slightly more. With the stats you have provided the price seems favorable. Without knowing crown and pavilion angles it's hard to get specific about cut quality.

The most important question is the one Belle asked - do you like the way it looks?

 

[mcgong]

Crown angle 35.1 Depth is 14.8%
Pavillion Angle is 41.4 Depth is 43.8%


Hope that helps. I just want to make sure I am not going to get ripped off. This is a big purchase for me.

Thanks.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/30/2005 3:17:32 PM
Author: mcgong
Crown angle 35.1 Depth is 14.8%
Pavillion Angle is 41.4 Depth is 43.8%

Hope that helps. I just want to make sure I am not going to get ripped off. This is a big purchase for me.

Thanks.

Having the angles helps explain to me why the diamond is priced as it is. As you can see from the HCA numbers this is predicted to be a 'good' diamond. With a pavilion angle average that steep I would predict a notable circle of leakage under the table. It would be easy to model it in DiamCalc to show you - in broad terms - what is meant by that if you give us the mm measurements. Bear in mind that anything we'd show you via software would be a very general representation.

I know these observations sound critical. Understand that comparisons on PS are usually made with the top 5% of known performing diamonds in mind, so please don't think anyone is saying it is awful. The price seems right if size balanced with color and clarity (EGL) is your priority. However, if you are looking for top cut quality my advice would be to keep looking.

Sellers are usually smart about these things. If a diamond was sent to EGL Belgium - or EGL USA - for grading rather than to the GIA or AGS there is often a reason.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 9/29/2005 11:29:32 AM
Author:mcgong

My question is...is 19K still a good price for that diamond, if not, what should I ask the new price be. I found two places where I could get a 2.04 carat, Ideal cut, VS2, H color for 10.5K (EGL Cert). I am not sure right now whether I should still take the daimond, even if she doesn''t budge on the price. Or just take the money and find another place and go through the whole process again of getting the diamond certified and everything.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Mike

$5k per ct?

no way Jose ,not for a nice stone.

 

[mcgong]

Ok, so I decided to stay away from EGL and go with GIA. I found a 1.99 carrat VVS2 I. This way I will have piece of mind of how it was graded. Thanks everyone for helping me out.

 

[Regular Guy]

Hi, MC,

Doesn''t sound like you have a question any more, but do remember, there are 4 Cs. Though GIA solves some problems that EGL may present, it introduces others....for example, unless you also know the cut data for this new one, you may have at least known more about the cut data about the other one than this one. Alternately, perhaps the store has equipment to provide it to you, or you are otherwise satisfied with its performance.

Best wishes,