N.Marcus carries red sapphires!

[jewelerman]

From the Batu Silang Gold & Silver Collection. Sterling silver and 18-karat yellow gold signature dot design. Pavé red sapphires and diamonds. 0.49 total diamond carat weight. Handcrafted in Bali.

I went to the N.Marcus web site to look at their new arrivals and found a John Hardy cuff bracelet with the above discription...red sapphires...um...arent they actually rubies...I guess even N.M.can get it wrong...on a $4000.00 bracelet.

 

[Linda W]

Yes, red sapphires are rubies. I wonder if that is what they meant. hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[AGBF]

You had me perplexed with your thread title!


Deb

 

[jewelerman]

Date: 9/16/2008 2:01:20 AM
Author: Linda W
Yes, red sapphires are rubies. I wonder if that is what they meant. hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I looked at most of the John Hardy line and there were a few problems in their discriptions of jewelry like this...its very confusing for the ave.shopper to know what they are buying.Maybe i will send them a clipping from G.I.A. on corundum identification and coloring...

 

[Linda W]

Date: 9/16/2008 12:02:47 PM
Author: jewelerman

Date: 9/16/2008 2:01:20 AM

Author: Linda W

Yes, red sapphires are rubies. I wonder if that is what they meant. hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I looked at most of the John Hardy line and there were a few problems in their discriptions of jewelry like this...its very confusing for the ave.shopper to know what they are buying.Maybe i will send them a clipping from G.I.A. on corundum identification and coloring...

Now that is a GREAT idea, you would think that they would know better. Especially knowing what a red sapphire is. Sheesh!!!

 

[Ninama]

Could it be a very fine distinction in color that allows them to be called ''red sapphires?

http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/ruby_sapphire_borders.htm

Walking the line in ruby & sapphire

Four corundums of the same hue (red), but showing a variation in saturation and tone. Most gem dealers would classify stones 3 and 4 as rubies, while stone 1 would be a pink sapphire. Stone 2 walks the line, a ruby to some, while a mere pink sapphire to others. This clearly illustrates the problems created by overly narrow variety definitions.

 

[Linda W]

That is interesting, but either they are called a ruby or a pink sapphire. I don''t understand the red sapphire and why it was called that. To my knowledge there isn''t such a thing.

 

[Ninama]

Wow... they are red red. You suppose they were naturally pink and treated to be red red? Whatever the case, the pieces seem... um... overpriced, to me. Seriously - those $1800 drop earrings (not pictured) look like they came from the Rite-Aid collection.

 

[Linda W]

I bet they were treated.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/16/2008 1:48:41 PM
Author: Linda W

I bet they were treated.

Are you making the comment in relation to their being called "red sapphires", Linda? (I suspect not. I am sure you know that most rubies are treated.)

Is your point that the color is so rich because they are treated? Well...again, most rubies are treated. And these are not even being advertized as rubies, so there is no down side for the vendors to treat them to improve their color.


Deborah

 

[Linda W]

ha ha ha ha ha Deb, I don''t know what I was saying. All I know is that they were saying they were red sapphires and a red sapphire is a ruby.

 

[coatimundi_org]

I'm thinking that if they were rubies, they'd call them rubies.

They look like they could be beryllium diffused corundum. Basically pink sapphire that has been diffused with beryllium within the crystal lattice(structure). The beryllium deposits an orange layer close to the surface the gem. It's virtually impossible to detect without gemological equipment.

I see this stuff is being sold all over the place, and some of the sapphires do turn out red-- an orangeish red. This is usually done to fake padparadscha color. The resulting color can be a bright orangeish red or an orangeish pink. This seems to make sense as these stones are very inexpensive, and they can be marked up a great deal with the name "red sapphire" to sell them.

If they are beryllium diffused, then they can't be sold as rubies. The store/designer should indicate that the stones have been treated and how they were treated.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Here's a beryllium diffused sapphire from Gemselect.com

Gemselect also has a lot of reddish orange sapphire melee. Really inexpensive stuff.

So Linda, I think you're right! Treated, but not in the sense that rubies are treated.

http://gemselect.com/sapphire/sapphire-196033.php

 

[Linda W]

Coati, You are such a sweetie and thank you so much for explaining everything. Now I understand the difference.

Linda xoxoxoxoxo

 

[coatimundi_org]

Linda, you're welcome! A lot of folks don't know about the different treatments, and that's why it's the vendor's responsibility to disclose that info--very important!
xo,
Coats

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/16/2008 7:22:27 PM
Author: coatimundi


I''m thinking that if they were rubies, they''d call them rubies.

...

They look like they could be beryllium diffused corundum. Basically pink sapphire that has been diffused with beryllium within the crystal lattice(structure).

...

This seems to make sense as these stones are very inexpensive, and they can be marked up a great deal with the name ''red sapphire'' to sell them.

...

If they are beryllium diffused, then they can''t be sold as rubies.

Thank you for your expertise, coatimundi! I didn''t know that there was any regulation on what color sapphire could be called "ruby", or that there was a treatment on a sapphire that would render it ineligible for the title, "ruby". (I think that the latter is really what you are saying, not that a vendor cannot try to sell a pink sapphire as a ruby, as long as it isn''t treated by some proscribed method.)

It is funny that this discussion ended up here instead of in Colored Gems, but that happens!

Deb

 

[coatimundi_org]

Thanks Deb!

I''m just a gemology student--explaining things also helps me learn--it''s great fun!

Yes, I''m referring solely to beryllium treatment. It''s used on pink sapphires that are not even close to being called rubies. If a pink sapphire was dark enough and marketable enough, some(especially in Thailand)would call it a ruby. I''m of the school of thought that rubies are ideally red to slightly purplish red, but there is no regulation between classifying pink sapphires and rubies--just a lot of arguing amongst dealers, gemologists etc.

But a formerly pale pink beryllium diffused sapphire? Definitely not a ruby! Another thing entirely. I think they should simply be called beryllium diffused corundum, because who knows what its original color once was! I don''t think many people would buy them with that title, though.

 

[jewelerman]

Date: 9/16/2008 7:22:27 PM
Author: coatimundi
I''m thinking that if they were rubies, they''d call them rubies.

They look like they could be beryllium diffused corundum. Basically pink sapphire that has been diffused with beryllium within the crystal lattice(structure). The beryllium deposits an orange layer close to the surface the gem. It''s virtually impossible to detect without gemological equipment.

I see this stuff is being sold all over the place, and some of the sapphires do turn out red-- an orangeish red. This is usually done to fake padparadscha color. The resulting color can be a bright orangeish red or an orangeish pink. This seems to make sense as these stones are very inexpensive, and they can be marked up a great deal with the name ''red sapphire'' to sell them.

If they are beryllium diffused, then they can''t be sold as rubies. The store/designer should indicate that the stones have been treated and how they were treated.

maybe im old school and maybe im pre-treatments that allow for the term red sapphires to be used...for me and my G.I.A. experiance the term red sapphires are a miss leading term to a jewelry buying public because dark red corumdum is ruby and any other color is sapphire.i guess its a kin to the marketing starategy use for green amethyst...coatimundi this would be a great questuion to ask in class or talking with an instructor about...could you please inquire for us...i think i need to up date my certifications....

 

[coatimundi_org]

I agree Jewelerman. I'll ask my instructor about it tomorrow--good fodder for discussion--thanks!

and I don't think you're old school--sensible is more like it!