My New DIL Thinks I'm a MONSTER

[that_someone_special]

Did you just call BPD sociopaths?

Apparently you know nothing about it. That sounds like something from a 1920's text book. It's people like you that really hold back modern medicine.

Here is a quick overview on BPD.. Which if I HAD to say she absolutely does not have. But whatever... They have doctors for this stuff..
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Borderline+personality+disorder


And let's keep this topic on iLander & DIL...

 

[iLander]

Did you just call BPD sociopaths?

Apparently you know nothing about it. That sounds like something from a 1920's text book. It's people like you that really hold back modern medicine.

Here is a quick overview on BPD.. Which if I HAD to say she absolutely does not have. But whatever... They have doctors for this stuff..
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Borderline+personality+disorder


And let's keep this topic on iLander & DIL...

Bean, I think the "It's people like you" line was uncalled for.

I understand what JewelFreak (and others) is saying and I appreciate it a great deal.

I have asked that we get OFF this topic, since emotions are running too high. Too much drama all around.

So, move along, people. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Cehrabehra]

This has been a fascinating thread.

Cehra, thank you for sharing your candid stories about irrational things you did when you were newly married to 'stake your claim' to your husband.

I agree, this has been fascinating. I myself have had a few different opinions on this subject.

As I read your post it gave me a ton of perspective that I've never seen before. Typically people who are like you don't reach out like you just did to inform others of how and *why* they feel that way. It was very insightful, thank you so much!

I tend to have two modes... one if you don't meet basic filter requirements is that I don't even notice you exist or I quickly forget you and I move on. But if I like you, or find you interesting I can be pretty full throttle. I don't have a lot of trust issues so it doesn't really occur to me. But I know I have put a lot of people off in my life. Some disappear from view and I kind of internally shrug and move on... others make me sad... but sometimes people stick around at a distance and much much later have said to me that they didn't really believe I was who I claimed to be, that my interest was sincere. They remarked (this has happened almost verbatim more than once) that I was hard to get to know because I really am exactly who I claim to be and that's really rare. But it never occurred to me it was a trust issue, perhaps like you express your POV. I just figured they thought I was a liar and they thought it was about ME when it really was about THEM. This may actually be very helpful in the future. So interesting. Sorry I'm rambling, maybe I'm not making sense, hopefully not being offensive! I would love to hear more about your perspective!

Sorry if this is a threadjack

 

[PreciousHappy]

Did you just call BPD sociopaths?

Apparently you know nothing about it. That sounds like something from a 1920's text book. It's people like you that really hold back modern medicine.

Here is a quick overview on BPD.. Which if I HAD to say she absolutely does not have. But whatever... They have doctors for this stuff..
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Borderline+personality+disorder


And let's keep this topic on iLander & DIL...

Bean, I think the "It's people like you" line was uncalled for.

I understand what JewelFreak (and others) is saying and I appreciate it a great deal.

I have asked that we get OFF this topic, since emotions are running too high. Too much drama all around.

So, move along, people. Nothing to see here, move along.

ilander, I know you've had it about now. Maybe even kinda regretting sharing at all? I hope not. It does sound like you are done taking/asking for advice about your situation. That is absolutely and entirely your right.

All I want to say is that you may have missed my super long (and because of it boring?) post on page 7.

If you've read or skimmed it then I'll shut up now. I said what I had to say.

If you hadn't read it because there have been too many responses and they're blurring together or you've already mentally and emotionally withdrawn from this thread then all I can say is please give it a chance and read it.


I took time out of a restful sleep in the hopes that you won't make any decisions even coming close to the mistakes my mother in law made with me, her son, and my children. It has impacted my children's lives and it's a strain on our family. I only want you to have the best chances for your family, your son's family and your future grandkids.

Okay, that's all. I'm going to bed now. Best wishes to you.

 

[iLander]

I read every word of every post, PreciousHappy.

It was your post (and many others) that prompted me to start the new family relationships thread.

Please copy and paste your insightful post in the new thread, PH. I think it will help some people.

I guess I'm just tired of dwelling on the whole incident. I'm trying to cheer up so I can enjoy the holiday season. I am trying to adopt a happy attitude so that, however this whole thing turns out, I'm open and giving.

Everyone in this thread wants (and deserves) responses and input, but it's hard to give each post the attention it deserves when there are over 200 of them. It starts to get tough . . .

Please use the new relationships thread, or start one of your own. . .

 

[dragonfly411]

Ilander - I am glad to see you trying to keep a happy outlook. I'd say enjoy your holidays with DH and DD and let your son come around on his own terms. You said he acted annoyed by the eating thing. Eventually he's going to get pissed off by her actions. If he doesn't though, it is not something that you can control! I'm really glad also that you started the other thread as I REALLY think it will be useful to some of the folks on here.

 

[JewelFreak]

+1

 

[movie zombie]

iLander, i'd ask DD and DH to handle it....i like their style.

also, DIL would rather have an arm tore off than leave was her statement. in this instance, she'd rather you stayed and attended the wedding sitting in a pile of poop?! i doubt it. i'm sure DD and DH can make it clear that while she would have been comfortable for you to do that, you made the choice that you did not want to ruin her wedding day with fecal matter.

ok, i'm sorry for being so gross.......

i don't think you're going to be able to win her over no matter what you do. try and keep an open door with your son.

MoZo

ps you made the right choice whether she knows that or not. i think she had issues prior to the wedding.

 

[LGK]

I haven't read past p 6 so I'm sure I'm behind. But I since you were wondering what had happened finally with the crazy people in my family, I'll give you some anecdotes for your collection

Well, I wish I could say that we had a happy ending. But not really. Basically, I haven't spoken to my father since I was 16 except once in person and once on the phone. I sent him an invitation to my wedding when I was 24, after a *lot* of soul searching and received no response. He called me for my 30th birthday however and when I asked him what he was thinking re: not responding to my wedding invitation, he said something like it seemed like it was an afterthought so he didn't feel the need to bother to respond to me. And the one time he randomly showed up at my work, when I was in my late 20s he said to one of my co-workers, "You can see where she got her ugly nose from." Nice! Thanks for the refresher course in why I don't speak to you, dad! So I just send him the occasional letter, and make DH read anything he sends and then he tells me if it's safe to read or not. And that's as good as it's gonna get I think.

DH's mother is the other wingnut we had in our direct family and same situation as the current status quo. No contact. She stopped returning his calls some four years ago for no apparent reason, and we left it at that. The basic dynamic there was that she favors my husband, her first son, ridiculously over her younger son. She made it her mission in life to make DH's younger brother miserable, and did her best to paint him as the horrible juvenile delinquent and f-up, and her as the long suffering poor mother. It was painful to witness, and DH couldn't stand to watch it and we basically only saw her two or three times a year even at the best of times.

Here's a nice little story from the first- and only- multi-family barbecue we attempted to throw when we moved in together, I believe I was 19 and DH was 20, and my BIL was like 16 or 17. His mom was talking to me and BIL kept trying to get her attention to tell her that he'd aced a test, which was a *big* deal for him and she kept utterly shutting him out. Finally she turned and snapped "What the f*ck do you want, a biscuit?" and then went right back to being sweet as anything to me, like she hadn't just turned into satan for a minute. BIL looked like she'd punched him in the gut, which you could tell pleased her to no end.

Once when BIL was 14 or 15, and DH was 16 or 17, she told BIL (apropos of nothing) that she didn't love him, and that she'd never wanted him to begin with, that he was an accident. Needless to say he was upset and smashed a plate on the ground- nowhere near her, just on the floor in front of himself. She called the police and had him arrested for domestic violence. So DH had to watch the police haul his 14 year old brother off in handcuffs. DH tried to explain what had happened but the police were required to arrest him.

There's been worse incidents, but those give you a general idea of the fun dynamic there. The simple fact is, she's just poisonous. She has no idea she's a grandmother twice over. And if I ever have kids, I wouldn't let her babysit if she was the last person on earth.

OK... now I need to get caught up on this thread. iLander I really hope your DIL isn't really a nutjob but your posts have red flags all over them to me, unfortunately. I've been thinking off and on about you and your situation and how much it must suck with the holidays coming up and whatnot. I hope it isn't as dire as it seems to me, and take care of yourself meanwhile.

 

[Sphene]

wow

 

[missy]

iLander, since Sphene brought this thread up to the top again I wonder how things are going with you and your DIL. Hope all is calm and that you two have a better relationship now and more importantly that you and your son are enjoying a relationship.

 

[Cherokee1979]

I read this entire thread, and it was very illuminating concerning one particular interpersonal relationship dynamic that I was trying desparately understand. Though my situation was entirely different, some of the comments made me think. So thank you.

To the OP, I hope very much, for both of your sakes, that the relationship has improved. As a son whose exceedingly kind mother was forced to go through a somewhat similar situation with her DIL for a painful year, I can very much empathize. I hope you are in a more positive place with your son as well. Best

 

[iLander]

I was surprised to see this resurface, I don't want to read it again, because it's too painful.

Missy, Cherokee: Five years in, we are here; visits maybe 2-3 times a year, I ignore her and she ignores me. She's pretty sullen. Everyone just tolerates her and doesn't really interact with her. We are also very wary of DS. Six months ago DH has mentioned to DS that maybe she (or even HE) should say something to me, but nothing happened. Though she did say "I'm sorry" twice during that visit: once to my roast being over cooked and again at something small I complained about. There was kind of a laugh in her eyes. I honestly think she was taunting me, showing she could say those words, but deliberately not saying them to me. It was very strange, she's never said sorry for anything in a conversational way before.

She never responds to group texts, and she doesn't acknowledge birthday gifts. I usually have to text DS to see if she got whatever we sent to her. Even though I send them both long thank you texts for whatever they send me. Which she doesn't respond to.

We only talk to DS once or twice a year on the phone, and even if she's in the room she won't acknowledge us.

We've tried to visit a couple of times and EACH time DS says her mother is visiting and will be using the guest room. So we don't go.

She is VERY cheerful and nice when they come for Christmas though. We've pared down the gifting since retirement, but we do notice how much she seems to love opening presents. She's all sullen until present time.

So we limp along with this relationship. If it was just me, I would have called them both out on this years ago, but DH was getting really torn up when we were all fighting. I made a conscious decision to never take her bait, and be nice for his sake.

It's not fair!!! I made this same compromise when my MIL was alive: be nice for DH. This time, I was looking forward to adding a new daughter to my group of friends, and turns out she's just a mean girl.

ETA: don't worry, I now also acknowledge that DS is very much like her, or he wouldn't have married her. So it's really the both of them. I apparently raised a very selfish, deceitful young man and didn't realize it. FWIW: don't spoil your kids.

 

[sonnyjane]

ILander I know you might not want to rehash this, but I can't for the life of me figure out why you still send birthday gifts to a woman that won't speak to you or acknowledge that she even received them. The last thing you wrote was "don't spoil your kids", but you're still rewarding her horrible behavior now!

 

[iLander]

ILander I know you might not want to rehash this, but I can't for the life of me figure out why you still send birthday gifts to a woman that won't speak to you or acknowledge that she even received them. The last thing you wrote was "don't spoil your kids", but you're still rewarding her horrible behavior now!

You're right. But we send gifts because it's the right thing to do. When a daughter-in-law enters the family, you treat her like a member of the family and send gifts. In spite of her behavior. She probably looks at it as a sign of "weakness" from us, that we are a couple of suck ups or something, desperate to make her like us.

But I see it as a sign of strength: I will not allow her bad behavior to alter my behavior or make me act "small".

(I also will continue to cook roast beef even though, after I burned the last one, she sent me a meat thermometer for my birthday. Still not sure how to take that. )

 

[momhappy]

You probably don't want to go into this any further and if not, I would certainly understand, so don't feel obligated to respond....
But why do you consider sending gifts as the "right" thing to do? I agree that you are not only rewarding her (or their) bad behavior, but you are engaging in the very pattern that you acknowledged created your issue in the first place. No one is obligated to send gifts.
I will admit that I didn't read the whole thread. I read enough to know that I'm sorry that you have to deal with this

 

[sonnyjane]

ILander I know you might not want to rehash this, but I can't for the life of me figure out why you still send birthday gifts to a woman that won't speak to you or acknowledge that she even received them. The last thing you wrote was "don't spoil your kids", but you're still rewarding her horrible behavior now!

You're right. But we send gifts because it's the right thing to do. When a daughter-in-law enters the family, you treat her like a member of the family and send gifts. In spite of her behavior. She probably looks at it as a sign of "weakness" from us, that we are a couple of suck ups or something, desperate to make her like us.

But I see it as a sign of strength: I will not allow her bad behavior to alter my behavior or make me act "small".

(I also will continue to cook roast beef even though, after I burned the last one, she sent me a meat thermometer for my birthday. Still not sure how to take that. )

I hate to blame the victim here but if the "right thing to do" in your opinion is to not only let people treat you badly but give them a tangible reward for doing so, then you really have absolutely no justification in complaining that she doesn't send you "thank you's" or acknowledge your gifts. We teach people how to treat us and you are using the textbook method to ensure she continues treating you like crap.

Like momhappy said, don't feel obligated to respond. Just reflect. It's just very hard for me to see people put up with horrible treatment and while they say they are hurting, they aren't willing to take the steps necessary to improve the situation.

 

[iLander]

You probably don't want to go into this any further and if not, I would certainly understand, so don't feel obligated to respond....
But why do you consider sending gifts as the "right" thing to do? I agree that you are not only rewarding her (or their) bad behavior, but you are engaging in the very pattern that you acknowledged created your issue in the first place. No one is obligated to send gifts.
I will admit that I didn't read the whole thread. I read enough to know that I'm sorry that you have to deal with this

I guess I should clarify; it's believe spoiling my son, when he was a child, that led to this. It led to his disregarding our feelings, his being selfish and self-centered. If you make a child the center of your world, why are we surprised when they become self-centered? I understand that now.

But I feel there are certain standards of polite that feel "right" to me:
-treat everyone like a member of the family (gifts being one aspect)
-the door is always open, me casa es su casa
-always ready to help with an emergency
-always completely polite to someone in my home (this is a Southern hostess thing, I think)

I will say, though, that I will no longer be including her in family group texts like "Happy Valentines Day!!" and things like that. DS, DH, and DD all enjoy sending a round robin of best wishes, which she completely ignores. I'm not interested in having her ignore everyone anymore.

 

[iLander]

ILander I know you might not want to rehash this, but I can't for the life of me figure out why you still send birthday gifts to a woman that won't speak to you or acknowledge that she even received them. The last thing you wrote was "don't spoil your kids", but you're still rewarding her horrible behavior now!

You're right. But we send gifts because it's the right thing to do. When a daughter-in-law enters the family, you treat her like a member of the family and send gifts. In spite of her behavior. She probably looks at it as a sign of "weakness" from us, that we are a couple of suck ups or something, desperate to make her like us.

But I see it as a sign of strength: I will not allow her bad behavior to alter my behavior or make me act "small".

(I also will continue to cook roast beef even though, after I burned the last one, she sent me a meat thermometer for my birthday. Still not sure how to take that. )

I hate to blame the victim here but if the "right thing to do" in your opinion is to not only let people treat you badly but give them a tangible reward for doing so, then you really have absolutely no justification in complaining that she doesn't send you "thank you's" or acknowledge your gifts. We teach people how to treat us and you are using the textbook method to ensure she continues treating you like crap.

Like momhappy said, don't feel obligated to respond. Just reflect. It's just very hard for me to see people put up with horrible treatment and while they say they are hurting, they aren't willing to take the steps necessary to improve the situation.

Yes, that is one way to look at it, I agree.

But look at it in the long term; I think she is constantly looking for reasons to turn DS against us. "Your parents didn't even send me anything for my birthday!" is pretty heavy ammo. In the long term, DH doesn't want to be estranged from DS.

Don't worry so much, they're not big gifts. Just an Amazon gift card.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

iLander, I understand about treating everyone as part of the family. I send gifts to my uncle every year, even though I haven't seen him in over a decade (he lives with my grandmother and we always invite him to every family occasion, party or celebration - he really goes out of his way to avoid my father and I). Why do I do it? Because it is easier, it avoids giving him ammunition to bad mouth me and it doesn't make my grandmother unhappy. If he were to show up today at a family dinner, I would give him a seat and carry on. Like being a good hostess, I believe that adults should be able to sit down with people they dislike (with the obvious exceptions) and keep a civil facade.

I would do exactly as you are doing. Treat her as a family member, don't push your son away by the way you treat her and carry on.

PS - my generic Uncle gift is a polo shirt. Easy to buy, not very expensive and it is hard to criticize.

 

[iLander]

iLander, I understand about treating everyone as part of the family. I send gifts to my uncle every year, even though I haven't seen him in over a decade (he lives with my grandmother and we always invite him to every family occasion, party or celebration - he really goes out of his way to avoid my father and I). Why do I do it? Because it is easier, it avoids giving him ammunition to bad mouth me and it doesn't make my grandmother unhappy. If he were to show up today at a family dinner, I would give him a seat and carry on. Like being a good hostess, I believe that adults should be able to sit down with people they dislike (with the obvious exceptions) and keep a civil facade.

I would do exactly as you are doing. Treat her as a family member, don't push your son away by the way you treat her and carry on.

PS - my generic Uncle gift is a polo shirt. Easy to buy, not very expensive and it is hard to criticize.

Exactly. I think being an adult is just doing a lot of things that you don't want to do. It starts with paying for your own rent & food, and culminates in burying those you love. It's kind of a suckfest, actually.

 

[momhappy]

^Yes, I guess you're right about how being an adult means that you have to do lots of things that you don't want to do. We all choose our battles and I can certainly understand your desire to not give your son any chance to push you away. As a parent of a son (that I am extremely close to), I find this thread pretty frightening....I hope that when my son is an adult, he picks someone good to share his life with. I don't know what I would do if he chose someone who didn't like me and it affected our relationship....

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I salute you for taking the higher road. Treat others as you'd like to be treated, not as they may deserve. That's the best thing you can model for your son, I believe. I do not think that spoiling kids necessarily results in this kind of behavior, though. I think you are being too hard on yourself.

 

[PintoBean]

I agree, Lady Disdain and Ilander. My MIL is very fair like that. Everyone gets a present during the holidays, everyone gets a greeting card, etc. The first son that got married got $X gift towards honeymoon. Second son getting married (twin) gets the same. I really appreciate that, I do - it is not easy because you have me and DH on one end of the spectrum - we actually ask for less presents , and are always happy with what she picks out, anyways, versus the other DIL - so cray cray and picky lololol.

 

[Cherokee1979]

I am so sorry to learn that the relationship is still so strained, iLander. I could really identify with your story, and I felt quite bad for you in that this woman (who I presume was previously a stranger to your son) has now been an estranging force in your mother-son relationship.

You had mentioned that she was 24 at the time of the wedding. So I presume your son met her early in his 20s. How a person, who your son never even knew for the remainder of his life till then, could feel even remotely adult or ethical in desiring to have an estranging impact upon a 20+ year mother-son relationship is beyond me. No matter how attractive or "soul-mate material" he might deem her to be. The simple fact is, I (a man) could hypothetically marry and impregnate scores of women, none of whom are even remotely related to me, nor knew me in my childhood and early adult years. However, I will only ever get one mother. I personally had to learn this lesson the hard way myself, when the woman whom I had accidentally impregnated, and subsequently married, attempted to estrange me from my mother & father (and later, restrict my parents from seeing their first grandchild, who resided locally, more than the hours set forth on a very exacting "schedule" - akin to a prison visitation log -- sigh). I may go into the backstory a bit later (presuming it is not a threadjack), but suffice it to say, that I hope that your son also one day comes to the realization that, presuming he wants to retain an active relationship with you, NO woman, man, superhero, alien, deity, etc. should EVER be allowed the power to distance him from his relationship with you. That is simply not their right. I LOATHE romantic partners who feel that they have this entitlement, merely because they reside & sleep with the estranged partner.

I also appreciate your comments about not spoiling your kids. I have a wonderful 3-year-old son, who i have half of the time, and he is MY WORLD. I love him more than life itself, though I now will try to make a conscious effort to not make him too much of the center of my world, as I want the best for him and his healthy personality development.

Thanks again for your story though, and I hope you are hanging in there!

 

[Sky56]

iLander, I read the entire thread and I definitely get the sense that DIL has a big problem, not you. The very opening of the story says it all. I had a small wedding but the day itself didn't interest me all that much, it was knowing I was starting a marriage with the man of my dreams...so if my MIL got sick like you did on my wedding day, I would have nurtured and tended to her and saw it as an opportunity to do something very kind on my wedding day. Selfishness is ugly and hurts. Wishing you the best, and thanks for sharing. Sometimes reviving old threads is a good thing.

 

[iLander]

momhappy: We were once very close to our son too. He was totally supported and loved and wanted for nothing. He used to say "You guys are the greatest parents in the world". DIL is his second girlfriend ever (at age 25), and he wanted to marry her shortly after meeting her. It was all we could do to keep him from moving in with first girlfriend ever, after 1 week of knowing her. If I had to do it all over again, I would have made sure he was more socialized as a child. I would have tried to set up group dates or Something. But he was in his room with video games, so he didn't really know what girls were about. He didn't know what (in a relationship) is considered mean, nasty, overbearing, abusive, etc. And for SOME damn reason he couldn't see what DH and I have always modeled: a loving relationship where both partners share and put their partner above themselves. My advice to you; try to encourage him experience lots of "practice relationships" when he's a teen, or involve him in a coed group activity.

Cherokee: The thing that gets me is that DS didn't even defend me to her. Didn't ever say, "Hey, I know my mom, and she's not like that." So I know now, the problem isn't all her, he allowed it all to go that way. And still does. I think the deal is that she's a narcissist, and doesn't see outside herself. I think DS is too. For your son, just try to work into the conversation things like "and how do you think that made the other person feel?" I wish I had somehow taught him empathy. Also, see my advice to momhappy above.

Both of you: I hang around with women in their 70's and 80's sometimes (a club I am in), and you know what strikes me the most? Not ONE of them ever talks about their kids. Ever. This is a huge switch from people in their '30's and '40's who build their lives around their kids to the point where all you see on their facebooks are pics of the kids, all they talk about is their kids, and frankly, the kids dominate their lives. I will admit, I did all that when my kids were young. But I realize now that all that was a phase. Kids are about 20 years out of an 80+ plus year life. It doesn't last forever, but when you're in the thick of it, it feels like it will. But ask yourself; how do you treat your parents? How would you feel if your kids treated you the way you treat your parents? You were the center of their world, once. Maybe you're awesome to your parents, call them once a week, cards all the time, dinner at their house. Maybe you don't do that. But either way is good. Maybe it's natural that you to broke away from your parents. And it will be natural for your kids to break away from you.

It took me five freakin' years to figure that all out.

 

[iLander]

diamondseeker, PintoBean: thank you for your understanding

Sky56: The whole thing?! Wow, you're remarkable. It was hard for me to read at the time, and I don't want to do it again or it'll just dredge up all the old anger. I wish I had someone as nice as you at that wedding. I hope your relatives appreciate you.

 

[Begonia]

ILander - haven't read all , but I've read enough.

You have always come across as lovely and gracious and I consistently enjoy your input and wisdom. Hopefully
Some day this girl will mature enough to appreciate all that you can add to her life instead of feeling threatened.

Love,
Begonia

 

[arkieb1]

I am sorry you are in that position, I hope that you find some way to bring it up with your son, a passive way like what does he and his wife feel you have done or that you miss him terribly, so that if there are grandkids one day you get to be a part if their lives and you and your husband at least don't miss out on that. Sometimes in-laws and family members for that matter just suck.