My daughter is switching political party after she ..

[monarch64]

DF: also, this might actually go down as your most meaningful thread in PS history. So definitely keep track of all of these responses in your notebook.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Millenials who feel the crushing burden of mounting student debt and a disconnect between the Constitution and modern society who choose to support Sanders are f*ing morons.

But one idiot at a grocery store is a good reason to be a GOP

We finally agree on something... Yup, only fools would believe receiving something for FREE today comes with no future consequences..

 

[Dancing Fire]

Everyone and everything else is taxed, so why on earth not tax public assistance benefits as well?

Not so! People with very low incomes do not have their incomes taxed by the federal government. Some states do not tax essentials, like groceries. Some states, like New Hampshire, don't tax much of anything (including income and real estate). And homeowners actually get federal tax credit on their income taxes for having mortgages!!!

I bet those welfare recipients would like to own homes so that they could get tax credits the way that rich homeowners do! But they don't have the clout to buy off the Senators and Congressmen to get bills passed giving them cushy benefits like tax credits for homeowners.

You want to know why we are subsidizing the poor who need to eat? I want to know why we are subsidizing the rich so that they can own their homes while we do nothing to help RENTERS!!!

Deb
Now you make me feel guilty of being a home owner, and no, I don't receive any tax credit for my house.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Just n/m.

I have already read your post!...

I know. I left it up for a few minutes because I know people who start threads much like myself like to see the comments that roll in and then get edited. I'm ok with that! I did not want it left out there for people to pick apart, because unlike many people here, I am not great at political arguments and can't hold my own without taking things personally or getting emotional. Call it a flaw in my personality, or whatever you will, but I at least know my weaknesses. And honestly at this point in my life I'm not about hurting others to feel better about where I stand on issues. That's all. I'm glad you read my post, DF. I really do like and respect you. This time I just disagreed.

I respect your POV too. no hard feelings I still love ya!..

 

[missy]

This is such a complex issue. There is so much abuse going on at all levels. This one example is just not representative of all the abuse going on re our tax dollars and government spending. Compared to the billions of dollars our government is wasting it's hard to get too worked up about this. Also, you just don't know what is going on with this person/this family and being poor sucks so why judge so harshly? If you don't know their personal situation it is unfair to draw such harsh conclusions IMO. I mean is it so terrible they get to enjoy a treat now and then? They are human beings you know and deserve the pursuit of happiness IMO. Your DD is young and perhaps with time and perspective she might feel differently IDK.

All I know is if I were poor and dealing with the welfare system it would be greatly upsetting to have people judge me so harshly. Until you have walked a mile in their shoes...


Did any of you hear about the tobacco companies giving tons of money to politicians to try influencing the vote on keeping the smoking age at 18 or 19 vs 21? Now that's a blatant and just arggghhhh abuse of the system. The system is broken no doubt. But I worry more about abuses by big corporations than other things.

 

[Niel]

Millenials who feel the crushing burden of mounting student debt and a disconnect between the Constitution and modern society who choose to support Sanders are f*ing morons.

But one idiot at a grocery store is a good reason to be a GOP

We finally agree on something... Yup, only fools would believe receiving something for FREE today comes with no future consequences..

Right! Maybe then we couldn't afford to get into another quagmire! Wouldn't that be a damn shame.

 

[AGBF]

You want to know why we are subsidizing the poor who need to eat? I want to know why we are subsidizing the rich so that they can own their homes while we do nothing to help RENTERS!!!

Deb

Now you make me feel guilty of being a home owner, and no, I don't receive any tax credit for my house.

Did you ever have a mortgage, DF? (This is not about you, personally, and I dislike making a thread about an individual, but you used yourself as an example.) Perhaps you have, now, paid off your home. Perhaps you were lucky enough to be able to buy your home for cash right from the start. But most Americans, by far, use mortgages to buy homes. And when they do they are subsidized by all the American taxpayers, including the very poor ones who rent or or who work and pay taxes, but are currently sleeping on couches in the living rooms of their brothers-in-law.

Deb/AGBF

 

[missy]

Deb, it is for the good of the economy and our country in general for people to be homeowners IMO. So to that end I completely agree with giving a tax deduction on the home mortgage. It serves a good purpose. As I was criticizing DF's DD for thinking harshly towards the poor I feel the same about thinking harshly towards people working for the "American Dream" of home ownership. JMO.

 

[AGBF]

Deb, it is for the good of the economy and our country in general for people to be homeowners IMO. So to that end I completely agree with giving a tax deduction on the home mortgage. It serves a good purpose. As I was criticizing DF's DD for thinking harshly towards the poor I feel the same about thinking harshly towards people working for the "American Dream" of home ownership. JMO.

Well, I think it is for the good of our society to have citizens who are well-fed and healthy. And I do not think this is a complex issue.

I think there should be universal health care and adequate food for all people. The woman who helps me clean and organize couldn't get a headache medication yesterday because it cost too much and her insurance didn't cover it. If we had a health care system like Canada's, she would have had it.

Yes, Canada certainly is a Communist, totalitarian state. Very dangerous. We wouldn't want to get to be like them, now, would we?

 

[missy]

Deb it seems as if you know what the perfect solution should be. I OTOH think it is a very complex issue with no easy answers. I have a number of Canadian friends and I know how they have to wait ages for what we might consider necessary health care to alleviate pain and suffering.

Plus I don't consider most homeowners "rich" as you wrote. Is it wrong to work hard to make a good life for you and your family? Should the middle class be penalized and also have to sleep on their friend's couch? One of the great things about America IMO is that here you can work hard and make a good life for you and your family.

And yes I agree with you that everyone should have that right. But I don't think the solution is to take away tax incentives from the middle class.

 

[momhappy]

I think DF is entitled to ask about the abalone. He's paying for it.I also think it's safe to say that someone spending that kind of money on abalone does not need food stamps.

Although I would like to give people the benefit of the doubt, I would tend to agree with this. Normally, it shouldn't be anyone's business what someone chooses to buy at the grocery store, but when it's done with food stamps, I think that it does matter. If we are not supposed to judge, then why doesn't that work both ways? In other words, if it's okay to assume that she might be a single mother just trying to feed her kids, then why isn't it okay to assume that she might be an irresponsible welfare recipient who's taking advantage of the system? It's not always a bad thing to question things, especially when we already know that the system is flawed. I agree that this is a very complex issue with no easy answers.

 

[AGBF]

Deb it seems as if you know what the perfect solution should be. I OTOH think it is a very complex issue with no easy answers. I have a number of Canadian friends and I know how they have to wait ages for what we might consider necessary health care to alleviate pain and suffering.

Plus I don't consider most homeowners "rich" as you wrote. Is it wrong to work hard to make a good life for you and your family? Should the middle class be penalized and also have to sleep on their friend's couch? One of the great things about America IMO is that here you can work hard and make a good life for you and your family.

And yes I agree with you that everyone should have that right. But I don't think the solution is to take away tax incentives from he middle class.

I do, actually, know what the perfect solution would be. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the problem. We have people who are too rich and people who are too poor. It is unfair. The answer is income redistribution through an overhaul of the tax code.

The middle class would not need these these piddling little mortgage tax credits if the rich were taxed the way they should be. If the 1% paid its fair share, not only could the middle class get homes, but the poor could get homes. We should not have people sleeping in the streets. We did not have anyone sleeping in the streets in the 1950's.

The wealth distribution in this country is a travesty.

 

[missy]

Deb it seems as if you know what the perfect solution should be. I OTOH think it is a very complex issue with no easy answers. I have a number of Canadian friends and I know how they have to wait ages for what we might consider necessary health care to alleviate pain and suffering.

Plus I don't consider most homeowners "rich" as you wrote. Is it wrong to work hard to make a good life for you and your family? Should the middle class be penalized and also have to sleep on their friend's couch? One of the great things about America IMO is that here you can work hard and make a good life for you and your family.

And yes I agree with you that everyone should have that right. But I don't think the solution is to take away tax incentives from he middle class.

I do, actually, know what the perfect solution would be. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the problem. We have people who are too rich and people who are too poor. It is unfair. The answer is income redistribution through an overhaul of the tax code.

The middle class would not need these these piddling little mortgage tax credits if the rich were taxed the way they should be. If the 1% paid its fair share, not only could the middle class get homes, but the poor could get homes. We should not have people sleeping in the streets. We did not have anyone sleeping in the streets in the 1950's.

The wealth distribution in this country is a travesty.

Deb I don't think this is true re not having homeless people living in the streets in the 1950s. Cannot research it now because I'm out and on my phone but a quick link. Didn't get to read it fully so not sure if it makes my point but I believe it shows homelessness was a problem throughout all time. Of course I think we need to end homelessness but I don't think the solution is as clear or easy as you do. I agree that the top 1% (and big corporations) should pay their fair share.


http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/minorities.html


http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/08/the-astonishing-decline-of-homelessness-in-america/279050/

 

[momhappy]

^Yes, missy, you are correct, homelessness did exist in the 50's and I agree with you that this is a very complex issue and I do not believe that it could be solved (entirely) with one, simple change to our tax code (helped perhaps, but not solved).

 

[Arcadian]

*watching this thread and eating popcorn*

BTW I'm independent and will remain so.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="missy|

All I know is if I were poor and dealing with the welfare system it would be greatly upsetting to have people judge me so harshly. Until you have walked a mile in their shoes...

[/quote]


Yeah, Our family been in their shoes. In 1969 after our grandfather passed away our step grandmother kick the 4 of us out of her house with $300. The $300 in cash was donations for grandfather's funeral from his friends. I remember renting a 2BR apartment for $65 per month and bought a used refrigerator for $10. Anyway, Instead of us going on welfare my 18 yrs brother found a job working in a Chinese restaurant kitchen for $180 per month? to support a family of four. Back in those days it was shameful for Chinese immigrants to be on welfare. This April will be 50 yrs since we immigrated to the U.S. ..I have seen so much change in our country in the past 50 yrs, and not for the better... Welfare used to be a helping hand till you find a job, but now so many people see welfare as a career...

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="AGBF|

Did you ever have a mortgage, DF? (This is not about you, personally, and I dislike making a thread about an individual, but you used yourself as an example.) Perhaps you have, now, paid off your home. Perhaps you were lucky enough to be able to buy your home for cash right from the start. But most Americans, by far, use mortgages to buy homes. And when they do they are subsidized by all the American taxpayers, including the very poor ones who rent or or who work and pay taxes, but are currently sleeping on couches in the living rooms of their brothers-in-law.

Deb/AGBF[/quote]


Yes, We did have a mortgage but it is been payoff since 2004...should I feel ashame ?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Plus I don't consider most homeowners "rich" as you wrote. Is it wrong to work hard to make a good life for you and your family? Should the middle class be penalized and also have to sleep on their friend's couch? One of the great things about America IMO is that here you can work hard and make a good life for you and your family.

And yes I agree with you that everyone should have that right. But I don't think the solution is to take away tax incentives from the middle class.

The liberals wanna make you feel guilty for owning a home...

 

[yssie]

Deb it seems as if you know what the perfect solution should be. I OTOH think it is a very complex issue with no easy answers. I have a number of Canadian friends and I know how they have to wait ages for what we might consider necessary health care to alleviate pain and suffering.

Plus I don't consider most homeowners "rich" as you wrote. Is it wrong to work hard to make a good life for you and your family? Should the middle class be penalized and also have to sleep on their friend's couch? One of the great things about America IMO is that here you can work hard and make a good life for you and your family.

And yes I agree with you that everyone should have that right. But I don't think the solution is to take away tax incentives from he middle class.

I do, actually, know what the perfect solution would be. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the problem. We have people who are too rich and people who are too poor. It is unfair. The answer is income redistribution through an overhaul of the tax code.

The middle class would not need these these piddling little mortgage tax credits if the rich were taxed the way they should be. If the 1% paid its fair share, not only could the middle class get homes, but the poor could get homes. We should not have people sleeping in the streets. We did not have anyone sleeping in the streets in the 1950's.

The wealth distribution in this country is a travesty.

And by "top 1% of the top 1%" I talked about in my own post earlier that said exactly this... I'm not talking about people making 200k/year. Or 500k/year. Or even 5m/yr, frankly, because 5m/year is probably "upper middle class" in some parts of America (Bay Area, I'm looking at you)... I'm talking about the truly wealthy - the people who are so wealthy, wealthy beyond comprehension, so wealthy it defies sanity...

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Its funny that this topic came up. Actually, the food stamp program is curtailing the ability of food stamp recipients to buy luxury foods. They plan to make certain items, just as they do cigarettes and liquor, not covered under the food stamp program. Chips, snacks will also no longer be covered. So, those of you who need to curse at those that don't agree with you the Gov't sees the problem.. I guess many of you don't do your shopping In an area that has food stamp recipients. Most everyone that I know, makes a comment about the shopping they do. This does not mean they should stop the food stamp program. Yes, they ought to buy the items that are good food for their family.

Telephone, don't you live in Canada. How do you know what people here buy?

Annette.

Maybe if they bought some eggs and cereal, the city wouldn't have to give the poor children breakfast and lunch.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Yissie, I'm not sure you are aware of this fact. At the moment 43 % of all taxpayers do not Pay income tax. A few yrs ago that number was 47%. So, we don't tax everything. 43% of the taxpayers pay nothing.

Annette

 

[yssie]

Hi,

Yissie, I'm not sure you are aware of this fact. At the moment 43 % of all taxpayers do not Pay income tax. A few yrs ago that number was 47%. So, we don't tax everything. 43% of the taxpayers pay nothing.

Annette

What's the distribution of tax brackets represented in that 43%?

Does it include individuals only, corporate entities only, or both?

Very low earners are taxed negligibly - or not taxed - and that, as I said earlier, is IMO how it should be. Tax should be a sliding scale. My ire is directed strictly at the very top earners who have all available resources at their disposal, and who use those resources to legally evade paying taxes at their requisite bracket. I'm confident Bernie will DO SOMETHING to close those loopholes. I'm confident Clinton won't.

 

[House Cat]

We spend 10x as much on Corporate Welfare than we do on public assistance.

http://usuncut.com/class-war/10-corporate-welfare-programs-that-will-make-your-blood-boil/

 

[partgypsy]

I thought this run a bell, you posted another food stamp scam earlier, with lobsters

I posted this story on PS a few years ago...

I was in line at an Asian market waiting to pay for my stuff. This guy walks up to the cashier and asked "do you take food stamp for live lobsters .. " LOBSTERS??? Wednesday, Thurs, Friday... you are on food stamps and having lobsters for dinner on taxpayer's money?... This kind of BS happens all the time at Asian grocery stores. I saw this lady buy (5) $100 can of abalone like it was Campbell soup.. I even heard her saying ...I will receive more food stamps in the mail tomorrow.

I don't typically shop at a store that has people using food stamps, but when I do, I don't notice anything like this. If there is an issue of people improperly using food stamps, or using fraud to sell food stamps then yes that should be regulated. People who are pro-food safety net want that resource to go to people who actually need it, and eliminate fraud. But ahe answer is not to get rid of food stamps or turn GOP (whatever message that is).

In our state we have had a number of problems with our food stamp program (i.e. implementing it) so thousands of people were not receiving food stamps which caused local food banks to run out of food. Believe me the food at these food banks are not gourmet. The current state gov is anti food stamps and currently proposing to kick most adults off food stamps (adults don't go hungry?)

That's why a couple of the charities I support is a local food bank and also a gleaning organization, because these resources are available to everyone. The schools here also do "backpack buddy" where people can donate food that is given to at risk-kids to be taken home so they have food on the weekend.

I personally don't have a problem using 2% of the federal budget to feed the poor. In contrast the bank bailout cost us 700 Billion. What I'm trying to say, the government spends much larger amounts of our tax money on subsidies, benefits and tax forgiveness that is invisible. It is easy to point fingers at the visible poor.

 

[Karl_K]

Well, I think it is for the good of our society to have citizens who are well-fed and healthy. And I do not think this is a complex issue.

I think there should be universal health care and adequate food for all people. The woman who helps me clean and organize couldn't get a headache medication yesterday because it cost too much and her insurance didn't cover it. If we had a health care system like Canada's, she would have had it.

Yes, Canada certainly is a Communist, totalitarian state. Very dangerous. We wouldn't want to get to be like them, now, would we?

No she may not have.
There is limited coverage for prescriptions in Canada unless you buy supplemental insurance or elderly or disabled or are taking certain classes of drugs. That said they are much cheaper in Canada because the government negotiates prices with the drug companies and that price is what you pay.
I know many many people in Canada that can not afford to take their meds if there is not a generic available.
Generics are generally under $10 plus the dispensing fee the drug store gets which I believe is $5 on most of them.
As an example of brand name drugs advair is $250 a month in the US but is around $80 in Canada. That is still to high for many people.
Strangely some times medications are cheaper in the US because the government only sets prices once a year in Canada and prices drop sharply in the US when they go generic.
In the US prices drop a lot when drugs go otc but they often go up in Canada as the government has no over site on otc pricing,

 

[House Cat]

DF,

If you believe all public assistance should end, how will the children of these people without jobs be fed? How will they be clothed? Where will they live?

 

[Dee*Jay]

*watching this thread and eating popcorn*

BTW I'm independent and will remain so.

Watching this thread and heating up the oven for lemon pie...

 

[OreoRosies86]

Wow DF you sure seem to run into a lot of people buying expensive delicacies with food stamps

Didn't one of your daughters live at home on your dime for quite awhile?

 

[E B]

Wow DF you sure seem to run into a lot of people buying expensive delicacies with food stamps

I'm surprised we didn't hear about how said person then climbed into her Escalade while texting on her Obamaphone. C'mon, DF, you can bait better than this.

 

[telephone89]

Telephone, don't you live in Canada. How do you know what people here buy?

Annette.

Maybe if they bought some eggs and cereal, the city wouldn't have to give the poor children breakfast and lunch.

I surely do, and I don't "know what people buy". I only commented on a) the things brought up in the thread and b) this article I'd read only a few days prior that was relevant.

When well off folk comment about poor folk and how they should live their life, well, I just don't think that's fair. I doubt you'd be appreciative of someone saying 'well if they didn't buy that new BMW they could have saved 5000 kids in Africa. OBVIOUSLY THEY HATE AFRICANS'. Because that's not their business. But, since you are so concerned with what poor children eat, why don't you spend some of YOUR disposable income on eggs and cereal? I mean, if that's all it takes to cure poverty then you'll save the country MILLIONS in welfare. Why is it fair the other way around?

Let's say that she gets $150/mon in food stamps. She spent that entirety on 2 cans of food. Do you know if she has kids? No. Do you know if her mother is sick and dying, and this was her favourite food, and her daughter wants to give her a wonderful last meal? No. As far as I'm concerned, she is not using them illegally (selling for booze, cigs, etc), she is not using more than what she was given (because she paid entirely with food stamps as per the OP), then why is it such a big deal?