My brother is frustrating the heck out of me!

[fieryred33143]

Here''s the thing and this is partly (if not all) my mother''s fault and my fault.

When my father passed away, my mother started receiving VA benefits (he was in the army). She would get a check in her name and then three checks in her name but for myself and my brothers. My mom never spent "our" money. Instead she put all of the money into a savings account and on our 18th birthday, handed the account over. The account is not our account. It is her account and we are a joint owner. So, if we overdraft on that account it not only affects us but it also affects her and much more so as you would imagine.

Ok, so my youngest brother was given only about 10% of the money when he turned 18 because he wasn''t starting school until January. The remainder of the money she moved into another account. I fought with my mother and told her not to give him anything at all until he started school but he fought back saying it wasn''t fair. Fine. Between June and December he spent all of the money in the account. Every single penny. He didn''t spend it on school stuff (he was taking one class in community college) because that was all paid for through grants and whatnot. He spent it on clothes, electronics, and taking his girlfriend and all of his friends out to eat.

So he started the year off with no money. My mom cut him off. She did so because he wasn''t being responsible and also because he needs eye surgery and is going to use that money to have it done. I gave him about $400, my other brother has given him $250, and my mom has given him $500. He moved in on January 4. So in 22 days he spent over $1k. And on top of that, my mom just checked his account and he has over $300 in overdraft fees because he''s spending money that he does not have. On what??? He has financial aid. He doesn''t have a car to get anywhere. We left him with plenty of groceries. His books were paid for through financial aid. So was his housing. I don''t understand where the money is going. I even had to ask my other brother if he was using drugs or something because I just don''t get where the money is going.

So now my mom is taking his debit card away. He''s freaking out in school and saying he''s going to open up his own account for his financial aid money owed to him and also the VA money he''s getting now. I of course am in the middle of all of this because they all call me to vent. And I have to take my mom''s side on this. At the same time I don''t want her to cancel his card because if he does open another account, he''ll use the money on who knows what and if there are school fees that come up he won''t have any money for it.

Ugh. I know this is our fault for making it too easy for him but I seriously don''t know what to do. I''m so stressed. Part of me wants him to suffer without having any money for food or anything but I can''t let him starve, you know.

Oh and get this...he tried to sell my car to his friend. My car. I have an old 97 Chevy that died on me and I had towed to my mom''s house who has a mechanic friend that fixed it enough to drive locally. So I let my brother use it while I paid insurance. Today his friend calls me to ask about title transfer. Um, excuse me?? And I told him that wasn''t my brother''s car to sell so thanks but no thanks. WTF??

 

[Dreamer_D]

Fiery I feel for you and your family, but it seems in many families there is a child who is irresponsible with money or other things. In my opinion, in this case, you need to cut the financial ties and let him figure it out on his own. That means no joint accounts, no giving him money (unless it is a set amount that your mother gives him each month), and no shared credit cards etc. I feel quite strongly that trying to control his money habits at this point will actually be counterproductive as it may cause him to "rebel" by spending more and by telling you less and less. The fact is that he will not starve... he will do what everyone else does and actually face some financial consequences! He will get credit, he will get another job, or he will figure something out.

I guess this could seem harsh, but I feel that 18 is old enough to start learning these types of lessons.

 

[neatfreak]

No offense Fiery, but you guys need to stop rescuing him. He won''t starve, he''ll learn a lesson.

 

[fieryred33143]

No offense taken Neat. That''s exactly what my other brother said (and he''s only a year older than him). We keep bailing him out and that''s why I know its our fault for conditioning him to spend as he sees fit and not suffer any consequences.

Now that he is seeing the consequences he''s calling me saying what is he going to do now with no money and it tugs at my heart strings.

He was supposed to get a job but work study is on a wait list as this is a huge public school. He doesn''t have a car to work outside of school but can take the bus. He''s looking into working at a local church singing in their choir. Supposedly they will give him money to sing for them although I''ve never heard of a church paying their choir members

My mom''s already cutting him off. My brother is getting there and I guess I just need to jump on board.

 

[cara]

Protect yourselves first and immediately. Make sure that he has no joint accounts with anyone and apparently you can''t even let him borrow a car. Start expecting less from him and only give him things with the full expectation that he will take advantage rather than make you proud. Buy him food or books directly but don''t give him money and expect him to use it on what you specify. Because he has shown you exactly what he will do if you give him the rope.

He''s young. He may grow up if forced to deal with the consequences of his actions, but you are going to have to let the world treat him roughly for this to work.

My brother was so so irresponsible at 18, and now at 21 is doing a bit better. Has a steady job and all. But he failed out of school, made a number of very poor decisions, and still makes some douzies when given the chance. It''d be nice if he would listen to older/wiser responsible ones and not have to learn these things the hard way, but that is the only way for some people. Good luck, it is hard to watch.

 

[cara]

Date: 1/26/2009 3:44:47 PM
Author: fieryred33143
Now that he is seeing the consequences he''s calling me saying what is he going to do now with no money and it tugs at my heart strings.

Oh, of course he is tugging at your heart strings - its worked before, hasn''t it? You must go with your head on this one. If you feel bad, just decide what your standard response is that provides some respite for your heart but yet doesn''t enable him in any way. Maybe a standing offer to come and eat dinner so he woln''t starve. But you''ll be surprised at what he comes up with!

He was supposed to get a job but work study is on a wait list as this is a huge public school. He doesn''t have a car to work outside of school but can take the bus. He''s looking into working at a local church singing in their choir. Supposedly they will give him money to sing for them although I''ve never heard of a church paying their choir members

Yes, the chapel at my college stopped having regular services because "the choir was paid and came to outnumber the congregation," according to the chaplain''s office at the time.

 

[Bia]

Date: 1/26/2009 3:18:48 PM
Author:fieryred33143
Here''s the thing and this is partly (if not all) my mother''s fault and my fault.

When my father passed away, my mother started receiving VA benefits (he was in the army). She would get a check in her name and then three checks in her name but for myself and my brothers. My mom never spent ''our'' money. Instead she put all of the money into a savings account and on our 18th birthday, handed the account over. The account is not our account. It is her account and we are a joint owner. So, if we overdraft on that account it not only affects us but it also affects her and much more so as you would imagine.

Ok, so my youngest brother was given only about 10% of the money when he turned 18 because he wasn''t starting school until January. The remainder of the money she moved into another account. I fought with my mother and told her not to give him anything at all until he started school but he fought back saying it wasn''t fair. Fine. Between June and December he spent all of the money in the account. Every single penny. He didn''t spend it on school stuff (he was taking one class in community college) because that was all paid for through grants and whatnot. He spent it on clothes, electronics, and taking his girlfriend and all of his friends out to eat.

So he started the year off with no money. My mom cut him off. She did so because he wasn''t being responsible and also because he needs eye surgery and is going to use that money to have it done. I gave him about $400, my other brother has given him $250, and my mom has given him $500. He moved in on January 4. So in 22 days he spent over $1k. And on top of that, my mom just checked his account and he has over $300 in overdraft fees because he''s spending money that he does not have. On what??? He has financial aid. He doesn''t have a car to get anywhere. We left him with plenty of groceries. His books were paid for through financial aid. So was his housing. I don''t understand where the money is going. I even had to ask my other brother if he was using drugs or something because I just don''t get where the money is going.

So now my mom is taking his debit card away. He''s freaking out in school and saying he''s going to open up his own account for his financial aid money owed to him and also the VA money he''s getting now. I of course am in the middle of all of this because they all call me to vent. And I have to take my mom''s side on this. At the same time I don''t want her to cancel his card because if he does open another account, he''ll use the money on who knows what and if there are school fees that come up he won''t have any money for it.

Ugh. I know this is our fault for making it too easy for him but I seriously don''t know what to do. I''m so stressed. Part of me wants him to suffer without having any money for food or anything but I can''t let him starve, you know.

Oh and get this...he tried to sell my car to his friend. My car. I have an old 97 Chevy that died on me and I had towed to my mom''s house who has a mechanic friend that fixed it enough to drive locally. So I let my brother use it while I paid insurance. Today his friend calls me to ask about title transfer. Um, excuse me?? And I told him that wasn''t my brother''s car to sell so thanks but no thanks. WTF??

(LOL) Sorry, I''m trying not to laugh but this story is so familiar to me...::sigh::

I have a cousin in my family JUST like your brother. Feiry, girl, he''s young and stupid still. They don''t understand consequence because they have family, like you and I, that will always take care of them. I just posted in another thread that I couldn''t bear to let a family member suffer over money. However, in your brother''s case, you''re all not only supporting him, you''re totally maintaining his lifestyle. That really isn''t your responsibility. You guys sound very tight, so I can see how you all chip in to help him. I think that''s great--but my family is close like that. However, I also think he has to make some choices and step up and take some responsibility off your hands (meaning yours, mom''s and sibling''s). Figure out a way that everything he needs gets paid for, and all the extra stuff he takes care of on his own, OR HE GOES WITHOUT THOSE THINGS. Seriously, you and I both know that mami and the rest of you shouldn''t be supporting gift and dinners for his girlfriend and his buddies. Books, clothes (of the K-Mart variety

), food..that stuff, I get it.

As for your car, that just deserves a smack across the head.

You''re too nice mama...

Also, remember that you''re getting ready to support your own baby and that comes first.

 

[neatfreak]

Fiery, if you really want to help him out and are worried he will starve, send him to the local food bank. One trip and he''ll realize he will never want to go there again unless he absolutely has to.

 

[oobiecoo]

He sounds like he has something going on... drugs, excessive partying, or a really greedy girlfriend. I don''t know what the answer is here... maybe give him a debit card with a pre-loaded balance on it and make him keep track of EVERY purchase he makes... write it down. I''m sorry you''re stuck in the middle

 

[movie zombie]

he tried to sell your car and you feel sorry for him?! get a grip girl and remind yourself that he''s 18, legally responsible for his financial affairs and you''re doing him no favor by being codependent with his behavior.

movie zombie

 

[laine]

Absolutely close all of his accounts! If you are willing to pay his school fees, do so directly so that he never touches the money. Is he on a meal plan? Often students in the dorms are required to be. If not, and you want to cover food so he doesn't starve (but he won't, don't worry), get him a meal plan, a really small one.

So he is in school, living in campus housing. If he has a meal plan, he doesn't need any money for anything. His basic necessities of life are covered through school, and anything else is extra.

Close the joint accounts, take away the debit and credit cards, and leave him on his own. If he wants to spend money, he has to make it.

If he screws up, he has to deal with it. But, you should probably be prepared for him to spend his school loan money, not be able to pay for school and want to move home. I hope this doesn't happen, but if it does, be prepared with a plan that involves him paying rent and not freeloading.

Also, drugs was the first thing that came to my mind. That's a LOT of money to blow through so fast--keep an eye out!

ETA: And he won't starve--he'll find a way to eat, don't worry about that!

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 1/26/2009 5:10:54 PM
Author: oobiecoo
He sounds like he has something going on... drugs, excessive partying, or a really greedy girlfriend. I don''t know what the answer is here... maybe give him a debit card with a pre-loaded balance on it and make him keep track of EVERY purchase he makes... write it down. I''m sorry you''re stuck in the middle

That''s how I feel. The girlfriend is done and over with and I know most of the purchases were to take her out because she was *super* high maintenance (and taking her out often included taking her family out as well

).

I keep feeling like there is something going on. He has never given me a reason to believe he''s on drugs. Despite his horrible spending habits, he''s a very good student and he''s doing really well in class. I''ve never even thought drugs before now and only because I just don''t understand where his cash is going to. The only other thing I can think of is maybe he''s hanging out with people that like to go out to expensive restaurants or do expensive things and he''s just trying to keep up.

This completely hit us out of nowhere too. In highschool when he wasn''t working, he was extremely considerate. He never asked for money. His prom suit came from the Thrift shop because he told my mom it was "ridiculous" to spend a lot of money on a suit he''ll never wear again. And now he''s spending $100 at IHOP????

 

[Dreamer_D]

You can blow $1000 in three weeks going to movies, out to eat three meals a day, buying CDs and other crap... you don''t need to buy drugs to spend that much.

 

[fieryred33143]

laine-he doesn''t have a meal plan. However, the money I gave him went towards his student card for him to get meals and things on campus because I knew if I gave him cash, it would disappear.

DD-I''ve actually asked him to come up with a list of what he spent his money on. So far he says to fix his laptop which I knew he had to do (he got a virus). I thought that he didn''t have to pay anything for that as its still under warranty but it turns out he had to pay $200 because he didn''t tell them it was under warranty (and they took advantage). The other stuff he says going out to eat, apparently a friend of his came over for the weekend and they went to all sorts of places and he paid her way the entire time, and some random purchases.

The latest is that my mother has taken away the overdraft protection on his account. So if he does try to use it now, it''ll decline.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/26/2009 6:48:57 PM
Author: fieryred33143
DD-I''ve actually asked him to come up with a list of what he spent his money on. So far he says to fix his laptop which I knew he had to do (he got a virus). I thought that he didn''t have to pay anything for that as its still under warranty but it turns out he had to pay $200 because he didn''t tell them it was under warranty (and they took advantage). The other stuff he says going out to eat, apparently a friend of his came over for the weekend and they went to all sorts of places and he paid her way the entire time, and some random purchases.

Fiery I know you love him, but you can''t live his life for him or control his behaviour. I know it is hard, I have watched my DH''s family go through this SAME THING with his younger brother. And all that happened there was that the brothers bad behaviour took over the family slowly and eroded many of the relationships. He finally moved out accross the country to get a away from his family''s over-involvement in his life, and he is actually doing really well on his own! I seems counterintuitive, but the more you try to run his life in the interest of protecting him, the more you are actually prolonging his behaviour because he is not accoutable. It also undermines any of his own personal efforts to learn how to manage his life, because trying to watch over him just screams, "You are not competent!" Hard as it is, you really have to just back off and leave him to experience life, whatever that means for him!

 

[cara]

Ditto DD- you can quickly blow through $1000 in three weeks on non-illicit items. Especially if there is no meal plan.

As for just taking away overdraft, sounds like a bad idea. Turn off the debit feature and let him use cash. In fact, take away the card entirely if your mother is still responsible for the account, otherwise he will just find ways to more complex ways to overdraw it and run up fees. Go look at the Hangout thread that Dancing Fire posted on his daughter - older, college graduate and still spending money not hers.

The best thing you and your mother can do is set up a system where he is responsible for his own mistakes. And you gradually increase the responsibility as he is ready. Can't deal with budgeting to keep himself fed all month? Get him a partial meal plan so he woln't starve. Give him a monthly allowance to handle extra purchases, transferred directly to his account. Not a joint account with his mother, if him screwing it up will affect her. Protect yourselves as he learns these lessons. Recommend he deal only in cash with NO debit feature at all (at least at first.) He may not listen to you (any college student can quickly bury themselves in credit card debt), but he needs to be fully, individually responsible for his monetary choices.

At 18, you have to let him learn some lessons. Such as not always paying for dates with a steady gf, or $100 at IHOP (which has to be for a crowd!), or remembering your warranty paperwork. Or if he does do those things, he runs out of money and eats PB&J for the last week of the month. Or he can't take a spring break trip with his buds cause he spent all his money on his high-maintenance girlfriend. While he may not be ready to handle all his budgeting (many 18 yro are not), you have to give him some responsibility along with expectations and let him suffer any consequences. Otherwise he will learn how to be dependent and let mom/big sis/big bro handle the hard stuff and bail him out. Not the education you are going for.

 

[purrfectpear]

I eat out three times a day. Breakfast is $6.50, lunch is $7 to $10, dinner another $10 to $14. So an average of $30 daily. It''s easy to blow through $1000/mo in food and I''m only feeding myself

Now if I was a student, I''m sure I''d be more prudent (make my own breakfast, sandwich for lunch, etc.).

 

[iheartscience]

Another cut him off vote. It doesn't really matter what he's spending $1000 in 3 weeks on. If it's food it's still WAY too much money for a college kid to be spending. I eat out constantly and I don't spend $1000 in 3 weeks on food. And if it is drugs/alcohol then you definitely don't want to enable him to continue that behavior. And he won't starve, I'm sure. He can just get all his friends he's been taking out to take him out for a while! Or like neatfreak said, he can go to a food bank.

ETA and him trying to sell YOUR CAR is just insane. WOW. That should be all you need to think about the next time he starts pulling at your heart strings. What's he going to do-break into your house next and steal stuff to sell? YIKES.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

This is going to sound awful to some people I am sure...but sometimes it''s okay to let grown up children fall down and fail to learn lessons.

Your brother is technically an adult, and with adulthood comes responsibility. If he is over drafting his accounting and accumulating charges, then that is his problem...and rather than "bailing" him out, teach him money management. He''ll grow from the experience. If he wants to open his own account, and waste money that is his, then let him learn. Someday he''ll want a new car or something else that would have been a good use of money, and by looking back at all the money he wasted on nothing nonsense things, he''ll learn. It''s a tough way to teach an all-valuable lesson, but oh well, sometimes we have to learn the hard way. But, there is no reason your Mom needs to be made to suffer because he''s a typical 18 year old with no concept of money.

 

[kittybean]

My brother did the same thing when he got to college--the first semester, he ran up some absurdly high tabs. He bought food for people, bought tons of things for his dorm room, and ate out all the time. After some extremely stern words (read: threats) from my parents and being forced to budget for and track every cent he spent, he quickly learned his lesson.

Maybe a strict every-cent-accounted-for budget plus a few months cash-only would help your brother learn his lesson without totally cutting him off? I think cutting him off would probably work wonders in helping him to be responsible with money, but if you don''t want to do that, it is important that some other restrictions are implemented to teach him to be accountable for what he spends. You will be doing him a disservice if you don''t set some serious limits. He also needs to know that what is yours is not his to do with as he wishes, i.e. he cannot get away with selling your car!

 

[Babyblue033]

I know you love him and worry about him, but letting him learn his lessons NOW will save him troubles later.

I was TERRIBLE at managing money when I went away to college, it wasn''t that I was a bad kid, I just never learned the importance of financial responsibility. I got high limit credit cards and quickly went over my head with them. It took me YEARS to recover from that, and as difficult as it was and as painful it is to go through so many years with bad credit, I recovered all on my own and will never forget this important lesson.

He''ll never learn anything if he knows there''s always someone who''ll bail him out. And no, he won''t starve just because his family cut him off, college kids are quite creative about feeding themselves

 

[fieryred33143]

DD-I''m hoping that by leaving him alone, he''ll do well. It''s hard not to want to micromanage everything, especially while he''s in school and since he''s doing so badly with finances. My other brother is also in school but he has his own apartment, works, and never asks for money. So we just let him be. But this one has to learn on his own. It''s so true.

Cara, Italia, Kitty-Thanks for your input. My brain agrees. I''m working on getting the rest of me to jump on board LOL

PP-That''s what we have told him yesterday. He needs to start making stuff in the community kitchen.

Thing2-About the car...I know! I don''t know what he was thinking. I haven''t sold the car yet because my mom has an older car too and if one is in the shop, she uses the other. He didn''t even tell me he sold it, my mom told me. And now of course the friend''s mother is all upset because she wanted the car but too bad.

Babyblue-Thanks for telling your story. I''m hoping he''ll snap out of it before it starts to get extremely bad.

 

[laine]

Another thought: some people don''t learn to make changes until they fail and actually see the consequences. The consequences of failing are much less now, while he is young, so if thats what its going to take, better now than later!

 

[chrono]

Everyone has given good advice already so I feel like I''m just repeating everything again. I''m very sorry to hear this as I know it affects the ENTIRE family. Its YOUR credit too. He''s had it "easy" for so long now that it''s very hard to change. It''s very easy to get into a bad habit and it''s very hard to break a bad habit. You won''t see an change even in a week or two. I''d withhold all cash and credit/debit for him. He won''t starve if food is provided. He needs to learn that earning money is very hard and slowly will come to re-appreciate it and make the most of what little he has. I''m sorry but if he''s trying to sell your car, that tells me that he''s really desperate and hasn''t learnt anything at all. I''m afraid you have to be tougher with him - that''s why it''s called tough love. It''s going to be very painful for everyone but the intention is good and it''s for his benefit, now and in the future. Don''t cave in to his whining; he''s going to do whatever it takes to squeeze every penny out of anybody who''s willing to part with it.

 

[AmberGretchen]

One other thing I will add to all the advice you''ve gotten (which I agree with) - this is actually a good time for him to learn about these things. He doesn''t have a house to lose, a family that will go hungry or suffer, or any other major things going on in his life such that he will suffer dreadfully from this, and hopefully he will actually learn his lesson now and not need to re-learn it again, more painfully, later on.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/27/2009 9:50:39 AM
Author: fieryred33143
DD-I''m hoping that by leaving him alone, he''ll do well. It''s hard not to want to micromanage everything, especially while he''s in school and since he''s doing so badly with finances. My other brother is also in school but he has his own apartment, works, and never asks for money. So we just let him be. But this one has to learn on his own. It''s so true.

Think of it as practice for when you have your own teenager

 

[whitetulips]

He sounds a lot like my brother and is coincidentally the same age. I know one of the biggest things with my brother is that a lot of times he is too considerate- he has friends that are less fortunate and he knows that if he asks for money then my dad will give it. There were times when he would take all of his friends out for lunch and pay even though he really couldn''t afford it. His reasoning? Because his friends couldn''t afford to go and he liked helping them. He even once lost his license for over a year to cover for a kid that got into an accident because he knew my dad would bail him out and this kid''s parents wouldn''t have.

That being said, he is very far from perfect and has had his fair share of trouble (including drugs). It still bothers us that he will borrow 50 dollars from my dad to buy all of his friends christmas presents and then not give anything to anybody in the family- and also not thank us for the gifts that we give. He has come to expect things and because of this he sees no real value in them. He thinks he is entitled to an endless supply of money and doesn''t understand that just because my dad works hard and could afford to give him money that doesn''t mean that he has to.

I hope that your brother is just going through a growing up period because he is away from home. I will say that giving him money now will not help him in the long run, and as hard as it is to know that you are letting him struggle now it will be worth it in the end. I also hope that he is just being generous with friends and hasn''t started getting into trouble with drugs. Also, maybe he is drinking a lot- the cost of alcohol can really add up fast.

 

[teapot]

Fiery, I know it''s hard, but you and your family needs to cut him off. I have a friend who has been doing this for her son and it is ruining her credit and cash flow. It''s much better for him to fail now and learn from his mistakes than you to suffer for his.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

It sounds like he has a gambling problem. Is he into going to casino''s or playing cards??

 

[monarch64]

Please, cut him off financially. Don''t let him end up like my soon-to-be-ex-husband, a 38-yr.-old who has never learned how not to spend money he doesn''t have because his parents and sister have always bailed him out...I refused to bail him out and that was a major contributing factor to the demise of our marriage. I also have a 32-yr.old cousin with the same issue, mommy and daddy have always bailed him out of jams and as a result he has no concept of making sacrifices to make sure the rent is paid or there is gas in the car. He is constantly moving back in with my aunt and uncle every time he falters, he knows that he has that crutch and he takes complete advantage of it. And don''t get me started on my 25-yr.old cousin--same issue there as well...and now THAT aunt is asking me to straighten him out. Yeah, as if. Straighten out=cutting off.